tipperaryred

It's great to have more input, so thanks a million for chipping in Nichole. I think you'll have no issues here for two main reasons: 1) ALL measurements in the CRL are to be taken as approximate - we're trying to do a better job of stressing that this time around. So the relative measurements compared to how the costume fits on the wearer is far more important than any absolute measurements. So if a 6'3" Del needs to drop their mag pouches by about an inch to look accurate to the reference pics, it is only natural that someone who is 5'2" wouldn't have to drop their pouches quite so far. 2) You said that you'd be worried that the pouches would end up rest on top of your scout belt, but in fact the reference images show Del's in-game pouches almost doing exactly this already. The central pouch has virtually no daylight between its lower edge and the top of the belt, while the pouches on either side have a clearance of a few mms at most. So long as they're not overlapping down in front of the belt face, I think you're good 🙂 Also, just a note for us all to come back to later - I've only just noticed that the reference image above actually shows an E-11 in Del's holster... I don't recall seeing that in any of the other reference images? Definitely need to revisit that "Holster must be worn empty" when we get to that section later.

No worries mate. @Dropkickand I are both attending an epic multi-day troop next weekend down at some of the Ep VII and VIII filming locations, so I was planning to have a word in his ear then about this 😉 Yup, I think that approach is the right one. Since I started on this, the publishers have also released interactive 360 degree images of the painted sculpts, so we're in an even better position to make the case than before. Plus I noticed that Del Meeko's artwork from the same publication also finally gives us a look at the compad, which is a simplified version using elements of both the Inferno and regular TIE pilot compads. I added the new images and links to the reference image thread last week.

I will also throw up the thermal detonator and holster components (with my initial proposed changes) so that these can be discussed together with the ammo belt. For the troopers the holster straps sit outside the belt, attaching inside the top edge of the belt. This is a departure from the way they are worn by the named members of Inferno Squad. Thermal Detonator A black thermal detonator is worn centred on the back of the belt. Detonator is based on a Black ANH TK Thermal Detonator. The detonator from the Inferno Squad - Commander Iden Versio CRL is acceptable. Thermal detonator is attached to the back of the belt via metal “scoop" hooks, painted black and attaches over the top of the belt. Thermal detonator may be light to moderately weathered. Holster Holster is made of black leather or leather-like material. A Stormtrooper or Inferno Squad - Del Meeko style holster is acceptable for basic approval. Holster is worn on left side of belt. Holster is attached via 2 black leather or leather-like straps which are attached inside the top edge of the ammo belt, hanging down over the ammo belt pass behind the belt, using two fasteners in the middle of the belt. Fasteners may be rivets, snaps, or Chicago screws. Note: The straps are slightly longer for this holster than seen on Stormtroopers. There is a retention strap which ends in a point approximately 1/2" (13mm) beyond a black snap closure. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): The holster is made of leather. A leather square is seen under the rivet at the top corners of the holster where the straps are mounted. Holster is worn empty.

The ammo belt has a slight inconsistency between the artwork and the sculpts, with 6 rectangular boxes on the sculpts and 8 in the artwork. I would propose making both acceptable for clearance, primarily for accessibility reasons. All similar belts in our library would have a maximum of 6 boxes (eg. TK belt, Iden's belt). It is unlikely that many vendors would be willing to create a longer belt just to accommodate this one CRL. Ammo Belt The front of the belt is made from glossy black or shiny material. is painted gloss black to match the costume's hard armor. Belt face is comprised of 6-8 rectangular boxes, with three square buttons, one centred in the middle and one on each end. Belt face attaches to a belt made of leather or leather-like material. Belt closes behind the Belt Face/Ammo Belt. An ammo belt meeting the standard of the Inferno Squad - Commander Iden Versio CRL is acceptable, so long as Iden's drop boxes are omitted. There are two drop boxes that dangle from the sides of the belt face via black elastic or nylon straps and are aligned under the last ammo boxes on either side of the ammo belt. Belt face and drop boxes may be light to moderately weathered.

I agree. If it's always hidden under one of the scout pouches anyway, then what side it is on is irrelevant. Also, a further tweak of the block next to the mag pouches: There is a black wedge-shaped block, covered by the same fabric as the tactical vest, on the right side of the vest matching references, held in place by one of the webbing straps described below.

It's one of the most difficult parts to call. It could easily be either, though the fact that there is no bulging of the pad/block below the webbing suggests to me that maybe it has that wedge shape to start with? The top part definitely has a triangular wedge shape to it, and I suppose whether it was like that to begin with, or it is just deformed because of the webbing, the visual end result is much the same? If someone takes a rectangular block and squishes it in so that it looks more wedge shaped, it will still meet the CRL requirements. What do you think? I'll put the proposed text below with both of our proposed changes, minus all of the mark ups, so we can see how it reads and what changes are still needed. The coloured markups are vital for tracking changes, but they do make it hard to take a step back and see how readable the changed text is. Tactical Vest The tactical vest and its pouches are made of black fabric similar to the flight suit material. Heavy black canvas is recommended. There are three M4 / M16 style magazine pouches fitted to the front of the vest, each filled by a rectangular package covered in the same fabric as the tactical vest. The packages fill the pouches completely, and extend above the pouch. Each package has a black gloss strip mounted to the front at the top, which should appear to be constructed from a similar material to the costume's hard armour parts. There is a black wedge-shaped block on the right side of the vest matching references, held in place by one of the webbing straps described below. There are a total of fourteen horizontal black webbing straps sewn onto the front of the tactical vest, with four stacked on either side of the pouches, and two at the front of each pouch. Straps are approximately 1" (25mm) wide and sewn to match reference images. The main shoulder straps are made from leather or leather-like material, which cross at the back and attach to the top edge of the vest on both sides. The front shoulder straps are attached to triglide buckles, which in turn attach to the top front edge of the vest with a shorter strap. The shoulder straps cross near the top of the back armor box. Each shoulder strap runs through a tri-glide at the rear before feeding into approximately 1" (25mm) wide side release buckles which attach to the top edge of the vest. There is a leather or leather-like waist strap (approximately 1" or 25mm wide) present at the back of the tactical vest, and it is attached to the vest with one quick release buckle on the right or left side of the vest at the wearer's option. This quick release buckle is hidden under the scout pouch, and is not seen when worn. A single adjusting tri-glide is centered on the back waist strap. There is a specific buckle greeblie mounted above the front tri-glide buckles on each side, matching reference images. There is a horizontal strip mounted to each front shoulder strap, several inches above the buckle greeblie. The strips should be made from the same material as the shoulder straps. The Flyye tactical vest is not accurate and will not be approved for use. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): The vest is proportional to the wearer. See reference images and the Costume Gallery for placement of specific components. All shoulder and waist straps are made of black leather or leather like material. Vest front tri-glides are made with reference to the games 3D model, and are attached to the vest with straps that are approximately 1.37" x 1.37" (35mm x 35mm) wide. Buckle style greeblies made with reference to the 3D models are attached to the shoulder straps above the tri-glides. The front shoulder straps which go over the shoulder and continue to the back are made of 3 layers which are glued, sewed or bonded together. Stitching is permitted as long as the stitches are small and do not detract from the overall appearance. The first (bottom) layer is approximately 1.37" (35mm). The middle layer shall be approximately 1" (25mm) wide. The final layer is approximately 9/16" (15mm) wide. The layered part of the leather shoulder straps runs up over the shoulders and stops below the rear of the collar. It then continues on as an approximately 1" (25mm) wide black strap, passing through tri-glides and into side release buckles, which are held to the vest with straps that are approximately 1" (25mm) wide. The three magazine pouches fall approximately 1" (25mm) below the bottom edge of the vest. The top of the pouch is in line with the bottom edge of the upper nylon webbing strap. The back waist strap has a single quick release buckle mounted to the right side of the vest using a strap that is approximately 1" (25mm) wide.

David's proposed changes that I am in full agreement with revert to the default white/grey text colour. I have removed the text from David's proposed deletions for clarity. My own tweaks are now in yellow, and my deletions struck through in red, with my comments/explanations in brackets in (red). Most of my proposed deletions are not actually text being removed - it's usually text that has been moved elsewhere for clarity/consistency, or is already repeated elsewhere. Tactical Vest The tactical vest and its pouches are made of black fabric similar to the flight suit material. Heavy black canvas is recommended. All straps are black webbing. Nylon or cotton webbing is acceptable. (NOTE the shoulder and waists straps are leather like material, so a generic comment on all "straps" could be confusing) There are three M4 / M16 style magazine pouches fitted to the front of the vest, with each filled by a rectangular package covered in the same fabric as the tactical vest. The packages fill the pouches completely, and extend above the pouch. Each packages has a plastic black gloss strip mounted to the front at the top, which should appear to be constructed from a similar material to the costume's hard armour parts facing forward. Strip size is 5/32" x 1/2" x 2.63" (4mm x 12mm x 68mm). There is a black canvas-covered wedge-shaped block on the right side of the vest matching references, held in place by one of the webbing straps described below with a 1" (25mm) wide strip of elastic or webbing mounted to the vest, going across the front of the block. There are a total of fourteen 1" (25mm) wide horizontal black webbing straps sewn onto the front of the tactical vest, with four stacked horizontally on either side of the pouches, and two at the front of each pouch. Straps are approximately 1" (25mm) wide and sewn to match reference images. The magazine pouches may drop up to one inch below the bottom of the vest matching reference images. (Now covered in Level 2 below) The main shoulder straps consist of are made from leather or leather-like material, which cross at the back and attach to the top edge of the vest on both sides in the back. The front shoulder straps are attached to triglide buckles, which in turn attach to the top front edge of the vest with a shorter strap. The front portion of the shoulder straps measure 1.38" (35mm). The front shoulder straps may be made of 3 stacked leather or leather-like strips, or may be grooved to simulate this. Vest-front tri-glides are attached to the vest with 1.37" x 1.37" (35mm x 35mm) loops. (All struck text is now repeated either above or in the Level 2 detailing) The shoulder straps cross near the top of the back armor box. Each shoulder strap runs through a tri-glide at the rear that the end of each strap feeds into, near the back armor box shape. These leather or leather-like straps before feeding into approximately 1" (25mm) wide side release buckles which attach to the top edge of the vest. See costume guide gallery for placement. There is a leather or leather-like waist strap (approximately 1" or 25mm wide) present at the back of the tactical vest, and it is attached to the vest with one quick release buckle on the right or left side of the vest at the wearer's option. This quick release buckle is hidden under the scout pouch, and is not seen when worn. A single adjusting tri-glide is centered on the back waist strap. There is an approximately 1.5" x 1" (38mm x 25mm) specific buckle greeblie mounted above the front tri-glide buckles on each side, matching reference images. There is a 1" (25mm) horizontal strip mounted to each front shoulder strap, several inches above the buckle greeblie. The strips should be made from the same material as the shoulder straps. leather or leather-like and is aligned right to left. See Reference Images and the Costume Gallery for correct placement. The quick release buckles on the back of the vest are attached by 1" (25mm) loops. black leather or leather-like strips. (Now covered above) The Flyye tactical vest is not accurate and will not be approved for use. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): The vest is proportional to the wearer. See reference images and the Costume Gallery for placement of specific components. (Text added here so it does not need to be repeated in each bullet point below) All shoulder and waist straps are made of black leather or leather like material. (Strap material is clearly specified here, so does not need to be repeated in each bullet point below) Vest front tri-glides are made with reference to the games 3D model, and are attached to the vest with leather straps that are approximately 1.37" x 1.37" (35mm x 35mm) wide. loops. Game-specific 3D model Buckle style greeblies made with reference to the 3D models are attached to the leather shoulder straps above the tri-glides. The front shoulder straps which go over the shoulder and continue to the back are made of 3 layers of ribbed leather strips which are glued, sewed or bonded together. Stitching is permitted as long as the stitches are small and do not detract from the overall appearance. The first (bottom) layer is approximately 1.37" (35mm) with the middle layer added to that. The middle layer shall be approximately 1" (25mm) wide. The final layer is centered on top of the first two layers, and is approximately 9/16" (15mm) wide. The three bonded strips run the length of the forward portion of the shoulder strap assembly. (Already explained in the next bullet point) The grooved layered part of the leather shoulder straps runs up over the shoulders and stops below the rear of the collar past the wearers shoulders, . It then continues on as an approximately 1" (25mm) wide black leather strap, passing through tri-glides and into side release buckles, which are held to the vest with black leather straps that are approximately 1" (25mm) wide. See Reference Images and the Costume Gallery for placement and construction. The three magazine pouches fall approximately 1" (25mm) below the bottom edge of the vest. The top of the pouch is in line with the bottom edge of the upper nylon webbing strap. The back waist strap has a single quick release buckle mounted to the right side of the vest using a strap that is approximately 1" (25mm) wide. black leather loop. This buckle is hidden under the scout style pouch and is not seen when worn.

To be fair, there was so much to fix from the original CRL that it's understandable things got missed in the last re-write, even if they came up in the last discussion. But you're 100% right that this needs some more serious work to simplify it down while fixing mistakes. I'll contribute my own re-write on top of your own after I have a chance to revisit all the reference images later today, but straight away I agree with a lot of what you've fixed above. In particular the references to "ribbed" straps and leather "loops", which were very confusing. We want this to be simple to read, consistent, and allowing the trooper the maximum flexibility and accessibility to build while remaining accurate. Is it worth having an additional discussion over the sheer level of detail we are including in the CRL itself? Whenever I show the CRL to someone interested in an Inferno build, there is usually a worried intake of breath from them as the scrolling continues, and continues, and continues... Compared to the majority of other CRLs, Del's is packed with a lot of dense detail which is great for scratch builders and vendors, but is going to be off putting for a lot of troopers. It may be worth going back to basics and deciding what information belongs in which of the following places: CRL basic clearance section. CRL Level 2 clearance section. The forum discussion thread (ie. here). I think the best example of this might be the exact measurements we have throughout the CRL. These probably originated with Anton's vital research into the sizes of components in the 3D model, which was essential into getting the relative sizes correct. However does ever trooper need to ensure that the cover strips on their vest mag inserts are "5/32" x 1/2" x 2.63""? Some details like this can probably be left in the forum, while others can definitely be re-written to be easier to read. The main concern is always that costume parts look correct relative to each other when worn by a specific trooper, not that there is a single set of "correct" absolute measurements that can be worn by troopers of all sizes and shapes.

Absolutely, it's a fair point on the fit as well as the potential IP issues. There's no point exclusively using one inflexible 3D model that only fits a limited number of troopers. As always, how a costume looks on a trooper is more important that absolute dimensions of each individual piece. Onto our favourite part of the costume, the vest! Current text below presented for feedback: Tactical Vest The tactical vest is black Cordura nylon. All straps are black. There are a total of fourteen 1" (25mm) wide straps sewn to the tactical vest, with four laying horizontally on either side of the pouches, and two at the front of each pouch. Straps are sewn to match reference images. There are three M4 / M16 magazine pouches, with each filled by a rectangular package covered in the same fabric as the tactical vest. The packages fill the pouches completely, and extend above the pouch. Each packages has a plastic strip mounted at top facing forward. Strip size is 5/32" x 1/2" x 2.63" (4mm x 12mm x 68mm). There is a black canvas-covered block on the right side of the vest matching references, with a 1" (25mm) wide strip of elastic or webbing mounted to the vest, going across the front of the block. The main shoulder straps consist of ribbed leather or leather-like material. The front portion of the ribbed shoulder straps measure 1.38" (35mm). The front shoulder strap buckles are tri-glide buckles. Vest-front tri-glides are attached to the vest with 1.37" x 1.37" (35mm x 35mm) loops. The quick release buckles on the back of the vest are attached by 1" (25mm) loops. There is an approximately 1.5" x 1" (38mm x 25mm) specific buckle greeblie mounted above the tri-glide buckles on each side matching reference images. The shoulder straps cross near the top of the back armor box. Each shoulder strap has a tri-glide that the end of each strap feeds into, near the back armor box shape. See reference photos and the Costume Gallery for placement. There is a 1" (25mm) leather or leather-like waist strap present at the back of the tactical vest, and it is attached to the vest with one quick release buckle on the right or left side of the vest at the wearers option. This quick release buckle is hidden under the scout pouch, and is *not seen when worn. A single adjusting tri-glide is centered on the back waist strap. The Flyye tactical vest is not accurate and should be avoided. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): The vest is fitted to the wearer. All vest shoulder and waist straps are made of black leather. Vest front tri-glides are specific to the games 3S model, and are attached to the vest with 1.37" x 1.37" (35mm x 35mm) leather loops. Game-specific 3D model buckle style greeblies are attached to the leather shoulder straps above the tri-glides. See reference images and the Costume Gallery for placement. Front shoulder straps which go over the shoulder and continue to the back are made of 3 layers of ribbed/ grooved leather strips which are glued/sewed/bonded together. The first (bottom) layer is 1.37" (35mm) with the middle layer added to that. The middle layer shall be 1" (25mm) wide. The final layer is centered on top of the first two layers, and is 9/16" (15mm) wide. The three bonded strips run the length of the forward portion of the shoulder strap assembly. The grooved part of the leather shoulder straps stop just past the wearers shoulders, and continues on as a single 1" (25mm) black leather strap, passing through tri-glides and into specific quick release buckles, which are held to the vest with 1" (25mm) black leather loops. (see Reference Images and the Costume Gallery for placement and construction. The quick-release buckles on the back of the vest, which hold the shoulder straps, are attached by 1" (25 mm) black leather loops. The back waist strap has a single quick release buckle mounted to the right side of the vest using 1" (25mm) black leather loop. This buckle is hidden under the scout style pouch and is not seen when worn.

Armor Armor consists of front and back pieces connected by shoulder bridges anchored by wedge connectors. Armor is glossy black. Chest and back plate meet flush at the sides under the arms. This is done with a third plate that bridges the gap between the front and back armor parts. Molded black, ribbed, rubber shoulder bridges are acceptable. Back plate contains detailed "O II" design. Armor meeting the Inferno Squad - Del Meeko CRL standard is acceptable. The top of the back plate box may feature a trapezoid shaped depression 4" x 5" (101mm x 127mm) at the top of the box. There is a 5/16" (8mm) circular depression below the right shoulder strap connector on the back plate. Armor may be lightly stained or weathered. Silver is not permitted. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Made from the game's 3D model and scaled to the wearer. Armor scaling and strapping must fit the wearer accurately. "O II" design shall have 16 points on the "O" design and "II" bars shall have 5 indented slot depressions at the bottom of each bar matching references. Trapezoid shaped depression at the top of the box shall match game refences for size, shape and location. Any visible staining or weathering must be light. Silver is not permitted.

I'm actually good with almost all of this too. The only recommendation I'd make myself is changing the same "made from the game's 3D model" text that we discussed on the helmet. Rather than opening vendors up to accusations of just ripping the copyrighted 3D model out of the game, I'd instead recommend: "Made with reference to the game's 3D model and scaled to the wearer. Armor scaling and strapping must fir the wearer accurately."

Armor Armor consists of front and back pieces connected by shoulder bridges anchored by wedge connectors. Armor is glossy black. Chest and back plate meet flush at the sides under the arms. This is done with a third plate that bridges the gap between the front and back armor parts. Molded black, ribbed, rubber shoulder bridges are acceptable. Back plate contains detailed "O II" design. The top of the back plate box may feature a trapezoid shaped depression 4" x 5" (101mm x 127mm) at the top of the box. There is a 5/16" (8mm) circular depression below the right shoulder strap connector on the back plate. Armor may be lightly stained or weathered. Silver is not permitted. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Made from the game's 3D model and scaled to the wearer. Armor scaling and strapping must fit the wearer accurately. "O II" design shall have 16 points on the "O" design and "II" bars shall have 5 indented slot depressions at the bottom of each bar matching references. Trapezoid shaped depression at the top of the box shall match game refences for size, shape and location. Any visible staining or weathering must be light. Silver is not permitted.

Agreed, there's plenty of detail in there without it being extremely restrictive. Happy to lock and clear again.

Agreed, gives plenty of detail on the specifics of the Inferno compad, while still allowing the flexibility of a more accessible regular TIE compad.

No worries Kevin, and thanks a million for checking in. It will be great to get this one over the line once all the parts are assembled 🙂