Updated MagmaTrooper CRL Work

[Darth Emphatic[CMD-DWM]]

Figures can be good for an initial foundation, but if there is art plus a similar trooper already in existence, that will typically win out on the CRL for the armor in question. As far as the new magma trooper and with any other new to the legion, there are places where the armor often seem to logically fit, but troopers worked on bring the armor to the legion in another detachment that can make a reasonable argument for placement. If someone works on this trooper, we can make the fight to have Spec Ops be its home. If we've got someone ready to take it on, I can even add an area for it for build progress and CRL development.

[DeathMOS30[501st]]

I like the gentle giant one we have as a model figure its really accurate and provides good detail just was wondering since the new black series added a new weapon should we also kind of include it as well?

 

The new magmatrooper I have no idea if anyone is working on it but i guess it would make sense to bring it over here why not.

 

I know folks are very attached to "nostalgia" and dont want to feel "replaced or outdatted" but its just like with research and companies that are growing we always keep a reference of the roots but we always strive to stay updated and current. Hence why I feel it is been way over due to go ahead and put some new photos up with updated information of the magmatrooper, especially the helmet.

 

I know someone is not going to be too thrilled but even if it was my original pictures I would be more than happy to do the right thing and whats best for the forum as a whole and put aside pride and other type of feelings

 

Figures can be good for an initial foundation, but if there is art plus a similar trooper already in existence, that will typically win out on the CRL for the armor in question. As far as the new magma trooper and with any other new to the legion, there are places where the armor often seem to logically fit, but troopers worked on bring the armor to the legion in another detachment that can make a reasonable argument for placement. If someone works on this troop, we can make the fight to have Spec Ops be it's home. If we've got someone ready to take it on, I can even add an area for it for build progress and CRL development.

[Krazytrooper[501st]]

I would LOVE to be able to carry the DLT-20A. I brought that up recently in this forum. Would be cool to have different options

 

 

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[Darth Emphatic[CMD-DWM]]

I like the gentle giant one we have as a model figure its really accurate and provides good detail just was wondering since the new black series added a new weapon should we also kind of include it as well?

 

The new magmatrooper I have no idea if anyone is working on it but i guess it would make sense to bring it over here why not.

 

I know folks are very attached to "nostalgia" and dont want to feel "replaced or outdatted" but its just like with research and companies that are growing we always keep a reference of the roots but we always strive to stay updated and current. Hence why I feel it is been way over due to go ahead and put some new photos up with updated information of the magmatrooper, especially the helmet.

 

I know someone is not going to be too thrilled but even if it was my original pictures I would be more than happy to do the right thing and whats best for the forum as a whole and put aside pride and other type of feelings

 

If you are up for updating the crl text, highlighting changes with supporting references, I am happy to review it and discuss.

[Krazytrooper[501st]]

I feel that's the hardest part when it comes to a Magma Trooper. There really isn't any references. It's not in games. It's not in movies. And it's barely in the books. But I totally understand what you're saying. I just hope down the road they start to touch more on the Magma.

 

 

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[DeathMOS30[501st]]

Those items were already discussed in the beginning pages of this same thread, which everyone pitched in and corrected some of the items that need to be updated.

Also I think the main photo needs to be updated on the 501st costume reference library page, there are a lot of things that would not pass for approval which is a bit misleading for newbies.

 

One example: the chest piece. I had my chest piece covering my ab piece just like in the photo on the CRL page and was told it needed to not cover the ab piece even though it was exactly just like in the picture.

 

I really just don't want newbies running into those problems that could be avoided simply by just updating the pic. I know Thomas has a new helmet and everything so it would look super good.

 

If you are up for updating the crl text, highlighting changes with supporting references, I am happy to review it and discuss.

[TK 4813[TX]]

Looking at the FX helmet situation, if we remove it from the CRL (which we should to mirror the official Legion ruling) we will probably not be able to grandfather any new kits coming in. I know the LMO at the time would review the FX kits on a case by case basis for those that were in the approval queues throughout the Legion at the time. Unfortunately, that's ancient news now as far as costumes are concerned. Should we grandfather the costumes when they transfer from owner to owner? Yes, without a doubt. But we may not have the ability to do that anymore.

 

Now for having two CRLs for the same costume, with standards specific to the FX suit and the newer screen derived suits, looks great in my head. But on the CRL page on the Legion website its going to be a nightmare and confusing to the average Joe stormtrooper recruit coming in and trying to figure out which standards to go off of. For members of the detachment it will be easy to distinguish between the two. But for the guys that have no idea this forum exists and builds the costume on their own without our guidance (which plenty of them still do), would not be good in the long run.

[Scubacat[TX]]

I say that the FX should be phased out. You can see the differences in troopers when they are all in a line. The CRLs for the other kits are being phased out with FX as well. If it is a matter of just switching out the helmet, I say we do it. If someone owns the kit but sells it, it should not be acceptable if the helmet is fx. It is just a simple switch.

[Krazytrooper[501st]]

I can put people in touch with getting new helmets. That wouldn't be an issue at all. Very simple fix. Let me know if I can be of any help

 

 

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[NitroSpartacus[501st]]

Can I suggest something as a complete noob? Shouldn't all the CRLs have photos of what levels 1, 2 & 3 look like? I just got my Magma from Walt, and I want to go right for specialist, but I'm worried I'm going to mess something up as this is my very first build.

[DeathMOS30[501st]]

That is the link for the specialist information for magma trooper

http://forum.specops501st.com/index.php?/topic/3429-specialist-requirements-magma-trooper/

 

To answer your question we technically dont have a level past 1 actually like FISD does also if you have noticed with looking at the other CRLs they only have one pic per item except for the fem troopers as there are two variants to the armor ( i am not sure if any of the others do) my guess(my opinion) is to keep it less confusing and less cluttered when looking at the CRLs.

 

 

Can I suggest something as a complete noob? Shouldn't all the CRLs have photos of what levels 1, 2 & 3 look like? I just got my Magma from Walt, and I want to go right for specialist, but I'm worried I'm going to mess something up as this is my very first build.

[Darth Emphatic[CMD-DWM]]

Can I suggest something as a complete noob? Shouldn't all the CRLs have photos of what levels 1, 2 & 3 look like? I just got my Magma from Walt, and I want to go right for specialist, but I'm worried I'm going to mess something up as this is my very first build.

 

One thing to note about a lot of the crl's out there is many of the armor models used are of the highest level already. Much of the basic requirements still apply so multiple pictures arent needed.

[ThomasDurbin[TX]]

Creating a new CRL is a group effort. We put a lot of time into creating the existing red armor CRL. Folks are free to make a new one based on whatever reference they choose. I simply don't have the time or energy to duplicate the effort and respectfully withdraw from debate about red armor CRLs.

 

I don't believe I have (or any one person has) the authority to simply insert new photos to supplement or replace an existing CRL. I think CRL changes have to go through chain-of-command approval after peer review. Folks are free to start a new CRL team and start that process and present their work for approval.

 

The original Red Armor was reportedly a run of only about a dozen kits. Some of those are still around and are the outfits described in the existing CRL. The more recent run(s) of red armor are not exactly the same and it gets difficult to say what should be done. FISD has 14 different versions of stormtrooper armor with a CRL for each. I believe the old and new red armor are not based on the same reference, so it's worth considering having separate CRLs for "classic" red and "newer" reds because they probably correspond to different things (comic art versus later action figures). Unfortunately, there are no red armor references in the canon movies or tv shows and legitimacy with original EU being erased is difficult to defend. If the various versions of red armor are simply considered to be white armor turned red, then it's arguably better to simply reference a FISD CRL and say paint the plastic a certain shade of red and buy red boots to be a Magma trooper. A CRL for Lumiya's Royal Guard Stormtroopers from original EU cover art should be based on the comic cover art that is thought to be the reference for the dozen original sets of red armor. Action figures came later, one from Gentle Giant at one point, and now something different from Disney. These references do vary and, following Legion-FISD example, could spawn several accepted versions of red armor just as several versions of white armor are accepted. I'm sure noobs get quite confused about choosing the right version of white armor.

 

We probably need a general paragraph added to the existing CRL to explain that there are different runs of red armor out there now and provide reference to the matching white armor CRL since apparently color of plastic and shoes are the only notable differences between new red and white armor.

 

I don't believe the original red outfits should be phased out.

I do agree that a CRL covering newer versions of red armor should be available.

 

Creating a new CRL is a group effort. We put a lot of time into creating the existing red armor CRL. Folks are free to make a new one based on whatever reference they choose. I simply don't have the time or energy to duplicate the effort and respectfully withdraw from debate about red armor CRLs. I don't believe I have the authority to simply take new photos to supplement or replace any existing CRL. I think that has to go through chain-of-command approval after peer review. Folks are free to start a new CRL team and start that process and present their work for approval.

 

I'd rather just Troop with all you Spec Ops brothers and sisters and have a good time without worrying about these details. I hope to see and troop with a great Spec Ops group in Orlando 2017!

 

Good luck and LLAP.

[Krazytrooper[501st]]

If I can be of any help let me know. I can absolutely help with updated magma pics. I own a WTF kit. So if you do go the route of certain CRL for each armor maker I would love to be a part of it. It does become a difficult build between older armor and new armor.

 

If I can be of help please let me know. I can send pics of my armor and help update a newer CRL.

 

 

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[Darth Emphatic[CMD-DWM]]

Honestly, Rocky, at this point I think it would be a good idea to have a whole new set of CRL pics. This isn't a knock on the original in anyway, but we know there are a few that need updating and it's best to have consistency in all the photos versus some pieces being from one model and other pieces from another. If you have the pics or can take full suit and individual piece pics, that would be amazingly helpful.

[Krazytrooper[501st]]

I can absolutely do that for you. This is a more recent WTF Magma. So I will take all individual pieces and I will also take full body so we can redo the whole CRL. I am totally willing to do it. I would love to.

 

We can talk more privately and we can go over exactly what you want done. You already have me on Facebook.

 

Let me know when you want to start.

 

 

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[Darth Emphatic[CMD-DWM]]

Thanks, Rocky!

[Krazytrooper[501st]]

Thank you as well. I can't wait to get started!

 

 

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[NitroSpartacus[501st]]

I'm lucky enough to have seen Rocky's armor in person. I'm still working on the same armor ( I believe mine is the earlier version though). From a noob's standpoint this is godsend. It was really difficult to visualize a lot of things because you can't really zoom in on a CRL photo. A lot of specialist approval photos are non-existent and the ones that do sometimes differ. I look forward to all the new stuff and am extremely thankful for the groundwork that everyone has put in. I was told recently that there are only around a couple of dozen magmas in the whole legion. I'm super excited to be part of the elite few once I get this thing done.

[ThomasDurbin[TX]]

I believe we all need to step back and take a fresh look at red armor and, for those set on following perceived or real "Legion" precedent, do a new evaluation of the variations of red armor and redo CRLs and issue CRLs for each version of Red Armor based on the significantly varied references for the different versions of Red Armor in existence.

 

I suggest it will be easier to make a new CRL for the new armor and post it as the Red Armor CRL for kits based on action figures, which are notably different from the original art depicting red troopers.

 

I may edit the existing CRL to be sure it focuses on only the actual art reference from 1995 on which it should be based and eliminate the term Magma Trooper because it should only be called Lumiya's Royal Guard trooper.

 

The new CRL for red armor based on later action figures can be the new Magma Trooper CRL and the primary reference for both noobs and veteran costumers for the newer action-figure based kits.

 

As noted, for Legion and FISD purposes different references typically mean the costume is unique and gets a separate CRL (based on FISD example with 14 different TK CRLs).

 

Two Red Armor CRLs is the right thing to do. Do we need to do a poll and get consensus on that point?

[Tatooinetako[501st]]

I believe we all need to step back and take a fresh look at red armor and, for those set on following perceived or real "Legion" precedent, do a new evaluation of the variations of red armor and redo CRLs and issue CRLs for each version of Red Armor based on the significantly varied references for the different versions of Red Armor in existence.

 

I suggest it will be easier to make a new CRL for the new armor and post it as the Red Armor CRL for kits based on action figures, which are notably different from the original art depicting red troopers.

 

I may edit the existing CRL to be sure it focuses on only the actual art reference from 1995 on which it should be based and eliminate the term Magma Trooper because it should only be called Lumiya's Royal Guard trooper.

 

The new CRL for red armor based on later action figures can be the new Magma Trooper CRL and the primary reference for both noobs and veteran costumers for the newer action-figure based kits.

 

As noted, for Legion and FISD purposes different references typically mean the costume is unique and gets a separate CRL (based on FISD example with 14 different TK CRLs).

 

Two Red Armor CRLs is the right thing to do. Do we need to do a poll and get consensus on that point?

 

l am currently building a magma trooper. Which instructions should I follow for 501st approval? Is there an approved video for its construction? The CRL is a bit vague.

 

 

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[DeathMOS30[501st]]

Ok so I skimmed through some of this and still see this whole having 2 crls thing.

I get that FISD has 3 for the same storm trooper armor since it was different in ANH, ESB, and ROT, which were movies that had good visual references and legit changes but for us exactly what variants are we talking about here?

Are we talking the one from the magazine, the gentle giant statue, and the new black series ones which are called crimson stormtroopers?

If this is what we are talking about then ok but if we are talking about having different CRLs because we have FX(which is not approvable and completely outdatted), ATA, and WTF kits then that doesnt make the least bit of sense.

We should at this point have one CRL with the updated kit and updated information which has been provided over and over again which keeps getting derailed for well "reasons" that continue to be illogical.

This hasnt gone anywhere and keeps getting no progress and blocked and its now 2017.

Can we please just get individual pics taken and a full kit suit up pic taken so we can get this rolling again?

We already have a volunteer Rocky who is willing to take the time to take the pics.

[DeathMOS30[501st]]

Were you able to take the idividual pics for the kit and a full kit suit up picture?

If so can you please post those thank you.

Thank you as well. I can't wait to get started!

 

 

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[Krazytrooper[501st]]

Yes, I have taken all individual pics already. I will get them over to Steve and we can go from there.

 

 

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[DeathMOS30[501st]]

Just was curious for an update on this? Thanks

Yes, I have taken all individual pics already. I will get them over to Steve and we can go from there.

 

 

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