Shadow Scout/Commando terms

[Jokr[501st]]

I'm now thinking of making a Shadow Commando, based heavily on the Commando bust & WEG image, plus whatever I can find ...

 

Still, so many "Shadow Commando" images look like artistic attempts (seemingly by people less knowledgable & careung about Star Wars than us .... ) at a black Shadow Scout. The armour sometimes often looks like the artist had no idea the scout had soft parts, not hard parts on much of the body.

 

Yet, there is now the distinction between Shadow Scout & Shadow Commando, which seems somewhat artificial.

The "Shadow Commando" looks to be, essentially, a heavier armoured Shadow Scout, with forearm, thigh, shin, & (maybe) cod armour added to the normal scout set (plus some other parts). The biggest difference is certainly double holsters added to the belt sides.

 

Here is my proposal:

 

Overall designation: Shadow Commando

Then, split:

Shadow Commando (Light) or Shadow Scout

Shadow Commando (Heavy)

 

or

 

Heavy Shadow Scout

Light Shadow Scout

 

or, something to that effect

 

[Chef[501st]]

Shadow Commando???

 

Where have you found that?

 

 

I think you mean Storm Commando.

 

 

 

This has also been a large bugbear of mine (considering I like everything Scout!).

 

 

The term "Storm Commando" is the actual reference to the troop type that people call the "shadow scout".

 

 

The Source information is pretty vast on this.

 

General Weir,

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Weir

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Storm_commandos

 

Even the defected Crix Madine....

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Crix_Madine/Legends

 

 

The moniker of "shadow scout" would appear to be a derogatory term used by Rebel Alliance forces, also including "Black Hats", "Shadow-men" and "Shadows".

Couple that with a legion propensity to call every thing that's black in Spec Ops "Shadow - whatever...." and this is what you get.

 

Let's remember the shadow-storm trooper is in fact a "BlackHole Trooper".

 

 

But what you refer to is the differences in 'artists impressions'. Which is a completely different ball game altogether.

 

Because there was never any 'canon' source in so far as a costume that was put in a film, it's always been open to a little interpretation and this has muddied the waters a bit.

 

 

For me, the Storm Commando is exactly that... A Storm Commando. The Scout derivative that we all know, because it is the most consistent image from the available source material.

Even the toys seem to follow a similar pattern now.

 

All the others are just artist variants, and whilst they could be made, and could be 'cleared' (although the 360 degree ref might not fly), they should just be designated as 'Storm Commando - WEG Variant" or what ever the source material refers to.

 

 

 

What I do propose is that we STOP calling them Shadow Scouts.... And start referring to them as their proper troop designation. And change the CRL to reflect the same.

[Jokr[501st]]

Thanks

 

My apogies for Shadow Commando. I meant "Storm Commando." That is my mistake in typing.

 

At some proding, I began looking intensely at images of "Storm Commandos" & looking for something significantly & consistantly different than the "Shadow Scout" CRL's kit.

 

What I have found:

The bust-statue has a different visor cut shape, forearm gaunlets & gloves with rectangles on the back, 2 small md-arm plates (right arm has a "closed-U" shape with 1 strap & the left has a raised rectangle with 2 straps), and a unique belt (which I am becoming fond of its design). There is a bit of a cod-piece different than the Scout one, going over the belt, plus the butt-flap is loose (no strap running over it). The thermal detonator looks basicall the same, but without the grembies added.

 

The bust looks to be based directly on the WEG front image, with the same arm parts, belt, etc.

The legs show some sort of thigh armour, which seems to be front-only, as the inseem shows 2 areas that would be straps indenting loose fabric pants legs. The lower leg has a unique armour, also reproduced in one of the action figures. It has 2 intersecting curved shapes. an ankle ridge, & a part over the foot (partially).

The lower leg reminds me of baseball/softball catcher leggings, with the knee part removed. Wilson makes a discontinued set that looks rather similar.

 

The other images indentified as "Storm Commando" seem to be based on the WEG image or the "Shadow Scout" (I'm with Chef on the terms now).

 

By "canon," I was using the older version, with the EU & multi-levels of canon, all under the "Legends" title, My intent was to separate official stuff from fan-images.

 

I may continue to create a kit based, primarily, on the bust, as I like the belt design.

Playing with how that would expand to a useable & reproduceable "Commando" different from the "Shadow Scout," I keep coming to "differenf just to make different." The various source image I can locate online (my Star Wars EU comic collection isn't very big), look like Scout-based designs with minor changes (like jackboots, sonetimes with alternate tops, instead of the proper scout boots). Even the presence of arm & leg armour varies wildly, often with one & not the other.

 

As for the X Wings images, those look more like a Scout-based image than anything else I've found.

 

The "best" I have come up with for a different "Storm Commando" kit is (only changes from Scout" described):

 

Scout helmet with different visor front edge cut

 

2 alternate mid-arm armour plates (described above), in place of T-bit armour

 

Smooth forearm armour (replaces nornal armour)

 

Leather gloves, with rectangles on back

 

New belt:

2 inches wide

Box each side (cut down from normal side part)

Holster each side, on long strap, attaching under DT & just out from cod

Simplified DT (no gremblies)

 

New cod- several posibities:

New hard armour piece

Cut down TFA cod

Marine-grade vinyl/leather cod- to shape of Scout, no chevron, lays over belt

 

Legs:

If thigh- front half TFA stormtroooper, cut down top (match images), 2 straps around back of leg

 

Standard knee

 

Shin armour? Catcher gear-bassd (vac?)

 

Boots: Jackboots (like TIE)

-maybe- clip-on top part with boxes on side(s) of boot top

 

That is is we want to make a separate CRL at all.

[Jokr[501st]]

The legs are the most unconsistent in the images.

 

I'm thinking that the different "Storm Commando" is from artists not realzing scouts had "soft parts" in those areas rather rhan armour like Stormtroopers. It is accidental, rather than intentional.

[Jokr[501st]]

Alternate idea ....

"Tweek" the "Shadow Scout" CRL

 

Primary: Change the name!

"Storm Commando"

(I think Chef is right as to intention)

 

CRL ideas:

 

The main semi-consistent difference with the many images I looked at & the CRL is the presence of holsters in so many of them. So, what about taking a note from the 181st CRL I've looked so much. It has several options (2 style chest boxes, 2 ways to do the waist belt, & options listed at the bottom, inc knee armour) So, what about the following options added to the CRL .... ?

 

Belt options (3)

Standard Scout

Standard Scout with holsters clipped where side "boxes" usually are (using standard Scout clips)

Alternate belt (like on bust)

If 4th: 1" straps to holsters below side boxes on standard Scout belt

 

(Each would have details, as I've seen on the 181st CRL, etc)

 

Boot options: (I'm not set on this, but an idea)

Scout boot in black

Jackboot (same description as TIE boots)

 

Weapons:

Allowed- Any weapon in Lucas-createf, expanded universe. Must be from approved and licensed source, of the same basic time period of Episodes 4-6 & immediately following.

 

Holsters appropriate to weapon, with preference to E-11 style holsters for those that allow such.

 

Recommended:

E-11

Thermal detonators, in pockets

(experts can fill this in, based on in-universe source lists of equipment-intent is realistic Commando equipment)

 

Basically, find a way to allow the commonly depicted dual side holsters (3 ways they are depicted in the images I've noticed) in addition to the normal scout belt & allow a more realistic (& huge) range of weapons. Plus, the name should be corrected!

 

 

I don't think that would happen, but it's an idea.

My hope, accurate & realistic Storm Commando.

Period

 

Of course, I'm not even officially a 501st member yet, despite working on 3 kits (RP/IC, 181st TI, & TX "Shadow Scout"/Storm Commando). So, I'm not really sure how that works, or if there is much point to this effort.

 

 

Spec Ops, the dark, ignored, shadows of the Legion. And that's the way we like it. That's how Spec Ops does it's thing .... (hehehe)

-Actually kinda like how it usually is in the real world military as well.

[Chef[501st]]

Rather than running a PM conversation and this thread containing the same info.... I'll just post in here, and then everyone else can chime in too....

 

Yeah, I hate the term 'shadow scout' with a passion. It's just cack.

 

Part of the issue we have going on here is that the Storm Commando was never put into anything in a 'canon' sense (i.e. a film) so there was no definitive shape to the costume.

It appeared in the X-Wing series which gave it it's most comprehensive visual outline in the shape of a 'black-scout' as we know it now.

The waters were muddied somewhat by WEG and other artists who created their own interpretations with varying degrees of differences.

 

In my experience it is always best to refer back to the source that presents the largest amount of reference.

 

 

 

So your aim is to create the shoulder rocket launcher, more than the Commando itself, and the base suit is a means to this end yes??

 

 

I think this is a slight bit of flawed logic in my opinion, but I'll work with what I've got.

 

 

I think creating a brand new CRL just to include the Launcher is a bit disingenuous in terms of your reference and direction.

 

I'll explain.

 

You're proposing to make a brand new set of "Commando armour" and a CRL that contains the Launcher from the WEG references that has some slight differences from the standard CRL we have at the moment.

 

Yet the reference to the Launcher IS ALREADY based on the pictures that were used to create the current CRL.

 

So you're combining the Launcher from X-Wing, to the WEG references...

 

I don't think that will fly with the LMO's for one instant.

 

 

If you create a 'new to the Legion' costume, which this one would be, then you have to go through quite a rigorous process of getting that agreed via the LMO's. The CRL needs to be written, reference pictures covering 360 degree walk-around need to be provided and the costume itself needs to be made and presented before any consideration is even made.

 

So there are a number of major hoops to get through doing down that road.

 

 

 

Personally....

 

My approach would be to just get the Launcher tagged on to the existing CRL as an optional weapon. It's going to be a much simpler solution.

 

The references for the standard Storm Commando already exist. Those existing references contain the very Launcher you're proposing, so everything ties up nice and neatly.

 

The arguments for their usage/inclusion are right there in the reference material. There's no inference or suggestion. It's there.... FACT.

 

 

And in that instance, all that will be required is the making of the Launcher. These can then be submitted to the Detachment for reference and consideration and I think I am correct in saying that in this new term (2016), the 'Detachments' have the ability to amend the CRL's as they see fit and not have to go through the LMO's. This gives a larger amount of flexibility.

 

 

 

The CRL's for Spec Ops are sketchy at best... That's because we are the bastard child of the detachments who no-one really cares about (only those of us in it...). So the CRL's are overlooked, the costumes aren't really given any attention and as such they are just left alone to gather holes.

 

But when the Detachment gets the ability to edit them, this can change.

 

 

The Storm Commando by it's very description eludes to the usage of a wide variety of weaponry (incidentally specifically including the long range rocket rifle), so what is currently in the CRL definitely stands to be expanded upon, and I would suggest to include ALL current SW universe weaponry... both Empire and Rebel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The problem we have is the way that the Legion works...

 

Everything is off structured reference, and whilst being part of the Expanded Universe gives us certain elements of freedom, it is also it's major drawback.

 

Because each and every thing tends to have some variance, it's difficult in getting them past the LMO's to be actually 'cleared'.

And you can't really 'mix and match' bits in a CRL for a number of different optional troop types.

 

They are either 'one or the other'.

 

So if you wished to make those subtle armour changes, then it probably would come down to a complete new CRL and the process that that entails.

 

It could probably be swung that the drop boxes are replaced with a holster of some description (there is certainly some argument from the reference material to support this), but I think that is about as far as we could possibly push the CRL options before we run into the territory of 'completely new costume'.

 

 

I don't think there is a requirement to have holsters commensurate with the weapon carried... After all, Snowies don't have a holster at all.

 

Expanding the range of 'allowable' weapons is certainly a relatively straightforward idea and one that should not necessarily encounter too many problems.

 

 

 

You say your aim is an accurate and realistic Storm Commando...

 

 

 

 

I'd say we're not far off.....

 

 

 

I understand that you're basing that very statement from 'one of the different artworks', but that is essentially my point. With such varying artworks, it's not entirely possible to make one 'accurate and realistic' to ALL of them.

We end up having to choose the one which is the most consistent. And that is the X-Wing type.

 

It might not 'fit' what you personally think a Commando should look like, but unfortunately that is the most consistent set of references.

 

 

It's not about being festooned with different weapons either... In nearly all of the references the Commando's are only depicted with a primary and secondary weapon at most.

Just because they are trained to use 'every weapon' doesn't mean that they'll carry them all at the same time!

 

I'd like to think in a real world scenario, they would be 'mission appropriate'. I mean, I was in the Army and was a Scout/Sniper. I wouldn't necessarily always take out my L96, especially in a FIBUA environment. It wasn't practical.

 

 

 

Personally I think that the subtle changes of allowing holsters instead of drop boxes and then 'any weapon' to the CRL is probably going to be the most achievable solution at this stage.

Anything more is likely to run into some serious issues with the LMO's.

Once those changes are in place, your local GML won't have any recourse to say it is 'unclearable'.

 

 

This is the only image of the 'flame thrower' that I have... It's actual source I'm not sure of. It may just be 'fan art'.

 

[Jokr[501st]]

For those reading this, I had a PM conversation going, some of the tangents relate to that.

 

I was focused more on that & learning how the Legion operates, rather than here. Timing between the US & UK broke up messages.

 

It seems things in the background were more complicated than I realized.

I'll recind this effort.

My intent was to make a second TX kit, which would allow an alternate option to all (as per another member of the forum). The precise nature of that one lead to complications (& history?) which I am becoming aware of.

 

The rocket launcher rifle was intended as an example (which post/thread intending "how would I make?" lead, indirectly, to this one ...). If one cannot use, in official events, something that type is clearly shown using (& being told a "storm commando" could), then one should make a storm commando CRL. That notion spurred Chef's above statement.

As I plan, once "in," to make equipment, I'd like to be able to use it (appropriately, rather than a "walking arsenal"). Intrigued, I looked more into the commando.

 

Plus, the 2 were close enough to actually be doable. So, I explored what it would take to do it, looking at the images I could find.

 

I ended up agreeing more with Chef that they are the same.

I'll drop efforts while I work on my Scout kit, to be painted black. whatever it is called..

 

 

I hoped for a multi-part conversation here, including "not needed," as they are basically the same.

 

The notion of alternate parts comes from:

http://databank.501st.com/databank/Costuming:TI_-_181st

 

It seems CRLs & changes to them are more complicated than I realized & that this one is a serious backburner, esp with the new films & related media. Besides us, few care much. & I'm OK with that ...

 

I need to get my first TX kit, the present "Shadow Scout" done first.

 

 

(If this doesn't flow right, it is due to being writen in parts while getting myself & others ready for my son's last basketball game of the season at the local Y. I appologize now

[Chef[501st]]

It is a pretty convoluted system that's for sure.

 

 

In a nutshell it's like this:

 

 

If a costume CRL already exists, then the clearance of your costume falls to your local GML.

If the costume falls outside of the existing CRL's then it gets submitted to the Legion (LMO) for approval.

 

Each CRL has been / is generated from the source material which is generally from the film footage. Where none exists, then it falls to artwork, toys and anything else that comes from an LFL/Disney sanctioned source.

 

But the aim is consistency. When the LMO's look to clear a new costume they look for consistent references for a full 360 degrees around the whole costume head to toe. Now that in itself gets quite restrictive.

 

 

Fundamentally changing numerous parts of a particular costume to a point that it is noticeably different from it's existing one, usually results in a brand new costume. Which is exactly the case as happened between the standard TIE and the 181st Pilots. There are fundamental differences which required it to be logged under a separate CRL, rather than adding in 'options' to the standard TIE Pilot.

 

There is the 'option' for kneepads on the 181st because I would assume some source artwork showed it with, and some without. But essentially the option list is limited to just that item.

 

 

So in terms of the Storm Commando, to go creating a raft of different 'options' would create a vastly differing set of costumes under the same banner, and that is something that they try to avoid.

So getting that past the LMO Team is largely going to be a very hard task. They no doubt would require a complete new costume, and then limit that to the reference material that supports it.

 

 

If you look closely at some of the CRL's you'll notice all manner of little things that are wrong. The Holster for Pilots is just one. It was added in so TIE Pilots had somewhere to stash their sidearm rather than having to carry it all the time (or I assume so), yet one was never visible on the costume itself.

Same can be said for the Reserve Pilot. That as a 'character' has never existed at all.... yet one has been created.

 

These idiosyncrasies do happen.

 

 

Having alternates has happened. The distinction between a game referenced Swamp Trooper and the 'real world' based Swamp Trooper has already been made, with the small differences being insisted upon. The person building it was not allowed to pick and choose which elements from either in order to make the costume. They had to strictly adhere to the specific details of the 'game' version.

 

 

It just is how it is....

 

 

So adding a few new weapons and the option of Holsters instead of drop boxes are minor in the grand scheme of things. And that is much more likely to gain traction than trying to seriously alter the CRL. And is a bucket load less work than creating a complete new costume and CRL to match.

[Jokr[501st]]

Thanks for that explantion!

[Chef[501st]]

Essentially the whole issue between the Shadow Scout and Storm Commando has been somewhat skewed by some involvement before our own.

 

What we have is this... From the X-Wing series, and the games... Which was used to create the CRL we have now, and in my opinion incorrectly called the Shadow Scout

 

 

 

 

And then this other artwork (which is different to the 'usual') was coined the Storm Commando, to differentiate from the originals.

 

 

 

 

 

But essentially they are the same thing (as can be deduced from General Weir)

 

This problem occurs because artists are not as consistent as we'd like them to be. So the source material has a number of subtle differences depending on which you choose.

 

Case in point, if you look at the flamethrower guy... His Biceps are clearly supposed to represent the t-bit style ones with the centre detailing part, but they are fundamentally different both in terms of the shape and the detail section itself. Because the artist hasn't adhered to the same design. His interpretation has subtly changed the whole thing (same for the little thigh covers).

 

 

Now it's not really possible to add in all these little 'tweaks' as options to the CRL because you'd essentially end up with a complete mish-mash of costumes across the board, and the overall effect will be diminished.

 

 

Now the argument for different weaponry is a little more consistent.

 

It's stated in the written background information and there are a number of bits of artwork to support the notion.

 

As you can see from the above, we've got pistols, rocket launchers. From the GG bust we've got E-11's....

 

Here we've got heavy emplacement weapons.

 

 

As well as others depicting detonation charges and mines etc...

 

 

 

And the Holsters as alternates to the drop boxes is also fairly consistent amongst the source material too...

 

It can be seen on the GG bust, the Legacy Collection Figure, as well as a couple of the bits of source artwork.

 

 

So it is my opinion that it is not such a drastic leap to add in the holsters as 'optional' and expand the available weaponry, rather than getting a completely new costume added to the rosters.

 

Obviously, if anyone wants to embark on a complete reference specific build for a new costume, then that's fantastic and we can certainly help down that route.

But it is a reasonably long and drawn out process.

 

 

 

***Edit*** You can reply faster than I can type part 2!! heheheheh.

[Jokr[501st]]

What is the process to add the clip-in holsters?

Is that by the detachment, LMO, GML?

 

That ia something I was thinking of making regardless (even if only used for non-official, to store blasters & not carry them around). When I get to the appropriate stores, I am going to look for more of the big clips. I like in a small town ... those stores are 30-45 miles away, in different directions, so it takes half my day to "just grab some" basic parts.

 

Again, for my info. I know this is election season, so a lot of orher stuff is going on ...

PM me if it should be that way.

 

Funny you should mention "reserve pilot," which is practically identical to the ROTJ bridge crew. I'm working with my GMO to get that approved right now- which should get menbership & numbers.

 

Edit: I don't like the mobile version of the forum ...

[Chef[501st]]

What is the process to add the clip-in holsters?

Is that by the detachment, LMO, GML?

 

 

Er... Pass currently...

 

At the moment (in an administration sense), changes to the CRL's are handled by the LMO, but it is my understanding that the 2016 administration is looking to devolve the powers of adjusting the CRL's down to Detachment level (to reduce the LMO's workload).

 

When this will come into force is as yet unknown. It's election season... Everything goes to rats at this time.

 

 

 

In a practical sense, the change is very easy. Just add clips to the holster and have them interchangeable. Just swap one out for the other.

[Jokr[501st]]

Yea, meant official.

 

Practical, it's just a matter of soucing matching parts.

I do need to get black leather anyways ...

[Jokr[501st]]

I hope the devolution/delegation/localization/whatchamacallit happens. That would allow practical fine-tuning for practical application & accurization by those actually wearing & interested in the 500+ & growing approved costumes.

 

I think it's a good idea.

[Chef[501st]]

Yeah, me too... And not just for Spec Ops.

 

The ability to fine tune the CRL's by those who are 'the most interested' and therefore well up to date on current developments and thinking is downright obvious when you think about it.

 

The LMO's as good as they are, cannot be a font of all knowledge for all costumes. So devolving that power not only gets the right people doing the job, it also reduces their own workload. It's full of win all round.

[Jokr[501st]]

Bump:

Well, devolution happened!

 

I'm still planning on doing a Storm Commando, despite thinking it was originally a mis-drawn scout in black.

 

My bases:

WEG image, from Galaxy Guide 9: Outer Rim

Bust

Figure with the hard boots (shows the leg backs)

 

Those three seem to be all based on the WEG image, allowing the most consistency.

 

Will need:

(Upper body based on WEG image &, especially, the bust)

Modded helmet (mainly visor sides)

Retrimmed arm pieces

Gaunlets

Gloves with hand backing

New belt

Alternate cumberbund, with wider pockets

 

Cod-piece (not sure best way to do this part)

-SHOULD be (logically) black vinyl, but may need to do hard plastic

 

Shins, wrap around, with "flaps" over the upper foot (catcher-style), integrated knee

 

Not sure of thigh parts. If present, are front only (as shown by textures of the leg sides in WEG image). NOT on toy figure.

 

[Peregrinus]

Seeing a lot of mis-representation in here, almost certainly not deliberate. What I see missing most of the time is the accurate timeline of this whole mess.

 

1993: West End Games creates the "Storm Commando" for one of their supplement books (Galaxy Guide 9: Fragments from the Rim). Artist Mike Vilardi was tasked with coming up with the look from the description of the trooper's role, and drew heavy inspiration from the ROTJ Scout Troopers he loves. But it is an utterly distinct and unique design. Form-fitting bodysuit and neck seal like a Stormtrooper, not a looser jumpsuit like a Scout. Stormtrooper boots in black rather than the Sierra Sneaker knee boots. Bigger and differently shaped waist pouches. Hard armor groin piece that somewhat resembles the Scout's "diaper". Armor on the chest, biceps, forearms, thighs, and calves that is nothing like what the Scouts have. The shoulders can be a straight swap, though. The knees are similar. The helmet has the blinkers flat across the top, rather than curved, and drastically cut back closer to the faceplate. There are a couple holsters hanging from the belt, taking the place of the drop boxes. One is an E-11, one is a Merr-Sonn Model 44.

 

1993-2000: Other artists do better or worse interpretations of Vilardi's original illustration in the WEG RPG and the Star Wars: Rebellion video game.

 

2000: WEG loses the RPG license to WOTC, and a new artist does a new interpretation of the Storm Commando that looks more like a WWII German soldier with a gas mask. No, I don't like it.

 

2002: The 501st has a big sit-down to come up with across-the-board agreed-upon costume definitions. Two pernicious and lasting misinterpretations make it into the clubs lore... Magma Troopers are defined as red Stormtroopers, despite the fact that they were never described or shown anywhere, and the one appearance of red Stormtroopers in the EU specifically called them out as Royal Guards in red Stormtrooper armor... And Storm Commandos are defined as black Biker Scouts, based on an apparently brief and uncaring glance at the extant reference.

 

2003: X-Wing: Rogue Leader miniseries showcases black Biker Scouts in a Storm Commando role. Their commander, at least, has unique armor that more resembles Storm Commando armor, despite still not getting it right.

 

2007: Hasbro releases an exclusive variant Biker Scout and speeder bike painted and labeled as a Shadow Scout.

 

I hate seeing Mike's original illustration described as "a sloppy Biker Scout" or other things like that that I've seen over the years. He's very good at making the characters look like the actors, at making the vehicles and armor and weapons look like what they're supposed to be. His Storm Commando is exactly as he intended. With the later data the now-Legends EU added (and which I consider tacitly canon unless and until it's specifically overwritten), it's the final evolutionary step in the family line that started with ARC Troopers and Republic Commandos, and moved on to Imperial Commandos in the early days of the Galactic Empire. These guys were created post-Yavin to better address the increasingly-troublesome Rebellion.

 

From '93 to 2000 or so, it was a matter of newer artists interpreting what Mike had initially laid down in later WEG supplements, in the Rebellion PC game, in the WOTC RPG... After that it became a game of "telephone", with misinterpretations creeping in and getting carried forward. Storm Commandos are not Shadow Scouts.

 

That said, I am not against Shadow Scouts. I like them. I have helped build one. See... I don't see the "shadow" designator as an insult. It's a mark of elite status. There's the basic white Stormtrooper, and the elite veteran Shadow Trooper (and then the even higher Nova Trooper). There's the basic white Scout Trooper, and the elite veteran Shadow Scout. There's the Emperor's Royal Guards, and the Shadow Guards that are another order of magnitude of scary above them (and the even higher red-and-black Sovereign Protectors). I like both Storm Commandos and Shadow Scouts, but they're not the same thing. The other started out as a misinterpretation of the one, but it works in the larger scheme of things, so the whole is enriched by an error.

 

I waffled over posting this for quite a while. I was involved in the early arguments on here about the Storm Commando and Magma Trooper, back around '07 or thereabouts. I don't feel like digging back to see. I never argue unless I have facts on my side, and my stubborn refusal to concede my backed-by-the-data position often makes me unpopular. I also hate getting dismissed because I'm not yet official, as if that somehow negates the validity of facts that exist utterly independently of me. These Detachments, when they're functioning as intended, are wonderful and dispassionate excavators of fact. Honest researchers are willing to abandon comfortable beliefs when presented with information that disproves those beliefs. Lord knows I've had to do that more than once in my life. I hate being wrong -- this is why I don't argue unless I'm sure. So anyone who finds themselves getting irate while reading through all this -- try to step back and ask yourself why. I'm not attacking anyone. I do this out of love for Star Wars, love for these specific costumes, love for the 501st, and a desire for the organization and those in it (including myself, at some point) to be the best it/they can be.

 

For what all that's worth...

 

--Jonah

[Jokr[501st]]

I was away for a while ...

Your post is extremely helpful to me.

 

Once I dig out my Shadow Scout kit, & get it conpleted & approved, I plan to build a Storm Commando based primarily on the WEG illustration, with the bust that is clearly based upon it to fill-in details.

I've been looking for a 3rd source to get an actual CRL made that fits. The figure with the armoured boots match the WEG image, but lack the thigh armour & other parts.

 

Your timeline helps, as I had great difficulty dating the images.

 

While off, I have approved:

ANH TI

Imp Gunner

Naval Trooper

 

& an working on:

Imperial Baron Fel

Rebel Baron Fel

Rebel X-Wing pilot

Wedge Antiles, X-Wing

 

Mandalorian pilot

Mandalorian privateer/boarder

 

The shadow scout got packed away. I need to get it FINISHED!!

[NCwerewolf]

Is there any way we can get the images in this thread updated? This was a very interesting discussion, but because I don't normally reside in the darkest nooks and crannies of comic books or tabletop and video games, I am having a difficult time visualizing the artwork and characters. I would love to be able to see what you guys are referring to.

 

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

 

 

[retrofire[501st]]

Is there any way we can get the images in this thread updated? This was a very interesting discussion, but because I don't normally reside in the darkest nooks and crannies of comic books or tabletop and video games, I am having a difficult time visualizing the artwork and characters. I would love to be able to see what you guys are referring to.

 

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk

 

Take a look here for for the background.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Storm_commando

[Honor Hal]

On 2/13/2016 at 9:33 AM, Jokr said:

Thanks for that explantion!

Did you ever complete the imperial storm commando armor? I’m I’m the process of doing one myself.