Seyn Marana CRL - NO LONGER APPROVABLE

[Darth Emphatic[CMD-DWM]]

I think our CRL should not be based on assumptions and maybes, but on proper reference material only. We should nerver assume what might be logical or what a character would probably use or wear.

 

 

Nils,

 

If we followed this guidance, 80% of the costumes in spec ops would not exist. Even that shadow stormtrooper you wear proudly would likely not exist, because even it requires assumption based on other known and better referenced costumes. Even the shadow stormtrooper has taken something from art and converted it to real life and that includes compromises on what will be included in the CRL. I doubt you are ready to give up that costume to follow the 'costumes can't be based on assumptions and maybes' rule.

 

All that being said, these CRL's don't just get created by detachments and then published. They are reviewed by an entire LMO team. I am happy we have it here and I am proud of those members working toward and already accomplishing their approvals. I would suggest a discussion with the LMO team if you don't think the costume should be approvable, but I cannot support that position, myself.

 

Steve

Spec Ops DL

[Janem[TX]]

Even though I don't feel like I'm off base with my statement, I'd like to comment on that:

 

First of all: I do very much appreciate all the hard work, that everybody within the legion does. It is not, that I criticize the work which had been done for Seyn's or any other CRL by our team in general. This being said I firmly believe, that a CRL that is based merely on written text should not be released without proper visual references to prove it.

That's why I wrote my statement.

 

Yes I do have a Blackhole Stormtrooper and I'm very proud of it. I'm also a proud member of the Spec Ops detachment and I'm happy for every new member and I have the uttermost respect for their work for their Seyn costumes.

But I don't agree with the assumption that 80% of our costume including mine, would have to be dismissed if we keep to the rules of the LMO documentation. I went through our CRLs and found very much and very clear reference material for almost all of our costumes. Only the Swamp Scout and the red Magma Trooper are giving you a hard time. Guess you have to dig a little deeper for these.

Of couse it is always difficult to translate a comic based costume into the real life. And maybe from time to time we have to make some assumptions for that. I agree with you, Steve, that we can't completely live by the rule “no assumption and no maybe†as inflicted by my statement. I went to far with this.

However imo this does not count for Seyn. We do not have any other visual material on her but a picture from behind and only about third of the whole body. That just is not enough to make a cast-iron CRL. Sorry but this is how I see things.

 

As I also have a function within the Command Staff of the German Garrison, I know how ungrateful all this must sound for you. I'm sorry if this is how I came across, but I had to speak my mind because as I pointed out earlier, our CRL are the rock the Legion is build upon. Therefore this issue is very important for me.

[Darth Emphatic[CMD-DWM]]

The costume does have a visual reference; it's on the cover of the book.

[kamikaze[TX]]

The costume does have a visual reference; it's on the cover of the book.

 

^ This, plus the fact that we have complete visual references for her three squad mates, all of which is shared apart from the different belts or tactical gear add-ons, makes a strong foundation for what the vast majority of her look would be like. Including her also makes diplomacy easy in JRS/SOD having two sets each which is nice.

[Tiburón[501st]]

What will happen then with this matter? It has been said that this CRL must be removed to prevent people from spending time and money in suits that will never be approved. The fact is that while this CRL has been in force there are already people who have ordered parts and have spent a significant amount to now see that it can not be validated.

I do not speak of people at random, I speak of my own sister and companions of my Garrison.

[kamikaze[TX]]

What will happen then with this matter? It has been said that this CRL must be removed to prevent people from spending time and money in suits that will never be approved. The fact is that while this CRL has been in force there are already people who have ordered parts and have spent a significant amount to now see that it can not be validated.

I do not speak of people at random, I speak of my own sister and companions of my Garrison.

 

That is quite unfortunate and nobody wanted to see that happen, especially the LMO team. The only thing that comes to mind is moving towards an Iden/Del/Gideon instead since the parts which were ordered would be applicable to those as well.

[Tiburón[501st]]

The problem is that there is already one member assigned to each of the three remaining characters. And as unique characters the only viable option is to sell the parts without losing much value, rather than randomly decide who gets fucked every two missions without wearing a suit.

Anyway, I'm sorry for being so negative, but it has made us feel bad.

 

[DeathMOS30[501st]]

This is precisely the issue i brought up during the election Q & A in the 501st legion. What the LMO team did was not right and now has screwed over a bunch of people. Telling someone to make the other variations i get to try and mitigate costs but the problem is this.

1. Its just a consolation prize, they are not doing the costume they set out to do and having to pick something different really isnt comforting.

I am sure there were several reasons why they picked Seyn instead of Iden/Gideon/Del so to say hey just make this instead is not going to cut it.

I personally am not happy with the b.s. that was pulled from LMO on this and i agree with how he is feeling on this subject matter.

 

With that being said there really isnt anything to do when power hungry people abuse their power so hopefully you can sell your kit and make the money back you spent. I am sorry and it is not an ok thing or position that you and many others ened up being put in.

[kamikaze[TX]]

The problem is that there is already one member assigned to each of the three remaining characters. And as unique characters the only viable option is to sell the parts without losing much value, rather than randomly decide who gets fucked every two missions without wearing a suit.

Anyway, I'm sorry for being so negative, but it has made us feel bad.

 

Yes, I totally understand. I have a Del and my wife has an Iden set which we like to troop together with, but there are two other Idens in the area that we need to balance appearances with which can be annoying if it means she can't go as Iden. I was going to work on getting her a Seyn kit to open up more options for us and was disappointed when I heard this news.

[Strength[TX]]

So I want to make sure I am following here. Is the CRL being pulled from Spec Ops? Or from the Legion as a whole?

 

I ask because she's a game character, meaning we can see her costume from all sides inside the game. My roommate has it, I've seen it.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

So I want to make sure I am following here. Is the CRL being pulled from Spec Ops? Or from the Legion as a whole?

 

I ask because she's a game character, meaning we can see her costume from all sides inside the game. My roommate has it, I've seen it.

 

Seyn Marana has been pulled from the Legion as a whole.

 

She's a book character...not to be confused w/ Iden Versio the game character. Iden's CRL (the main game character) is still live. Hope that helps.

[Darth Pleatsalot[TX]]

I have no skin in this game, but after reading through this thread, I feel like putting on the chef's hat and doing some pot stirring.

 

I want to make sure I understand something. A CRL for a costume was made, the LMO approved it, and thus, it became an officially approvable costume in the legion. One person, or a group of people woke up one day, found that someone pissed in their Cheerios, and decided to make a stink to have the CRL removed from the legion? I get the concerns. If the official channels to create a CRL were mistakenly overlooked, it does set a precedent that needs to be addressed. BUT, if it made it through all the checks and balances, and nobody noticed the error before approving it, then I say too bad so sad. Publicly address that an error was made, and make it known that it will not set a precedent, and going forward, any crl's pending approval by the LMO will still be judged based on the way it's supposed to be done.

 

Honestly, if you look through all of the approved crl's that the legion has, there are many that are of such obscure characters that it's highly doubtful any of the kids that we are trying to make smile at events even know who they are. We got one which is a woman with a stupid box on her head. Seriously, I'm pretty sure that the amount of research that went into this CRL would show that great care was taken to make sure a quality costume that fits in line with the intent of the legion's costuming standards was created.

 

Another question is, since a CRL was approved, and I'm sure there are a few people that have already spent money on parts, in good faith that the costume they were purchased for was going to be approvable based on a now existing CRL, is every single person that cried to get their way going to reimburse folks for the items that they cannot now use for whatever different costume they will have to make?

 

The legion boasts about having screen accurate costumes, yet has many costumes that never existed on a tv screen (whether it be video games, or movies). If there is visual reference to a character in a comic book, it's still not screen accurate, because it never existed in screen. So, if we are going to make costumes that don't really exist on screen, then what's the big deal with this one?

 

Again, I have no stake in this, as this is a costume I'm not making, but it kinda sucks that people spent a lot of time and effort into R&D for this costume, and got it approved by the LMO, just to have someone spit in their faces and find some way to get it yanked. And it also sucks to know that there are probably people who are now out of money because of this debacle.

 

Again, there is a way to acknowledge that a mistake was made, and make it clear that that same mistake will not be permitted to fly in the future, and leave the CRL as is until any new information becomes available to update the CRL with proper references material, should that ever even happen.

 

This is supposed to be a fun hobby, but some folks just like to suck the fun out of things.

 

 

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[Tiburón[501st]]

Totally agree.

We are talking about a suit that for a while has been as complete and there are people with this suit. It is not a CRL that has been in process for a while until it has been denied, it is a complete CRL and with approved suits.

That is why I started acquiring things once it was completed.

I think that in these matters should not be reversed in this way and that the upper echelons of the 501st legion allow validate this suit, both for the work behind research of CRl team and people who have worked in the suit. Basically because the CRL is supposed to be our only reliable information base so as not to waste time and money. However this happens ... and also members with a aproval suit ... that in theory does not exist.

Those who have been discharged are not denied, but the same work, time and money are behind those who have not had time for a few days. It's not fair.

 

However, a statement could be made to the writer for details about Seyn, including a second illustration?

[Kida]

Hi everybody,

I'm a girl who wished to be part of the Spanish Garrison like Seyn Marana, I was so enthusiastic with Seyn. I started with the costume and with the book for meet more of Seyn's personality, I was so happy, but all changed when I saw that the CRL was cancelled. Basically I can not understand how can this happen, if we have only one illustration of Seyn Marana...why they can not ask the writer for more information or for other illustration.

They made the CRL and now they cancel all? What's app with people who were working with the costume? Some people, like me, were so exited and now..only I can wait. The only reason that I can find for this change is that they prefer to less the CRL in stand by, because they prefer to be sure before, but if it's this they can say it.

Well, I hope we will have more informations very soon.

[DeathMOS30[501st]]

I am in agreement with all of you and i feel that the members are not being heard. Keep speaking up.

[Kida]

I am in agreement with all of you and i feel that the members are not being heard. Keep speaking up.

 

Maybe the 501th Legion could ask to the writer more information or other illustration. I could ask her, but I am only a singular person, I think the 501th Legion is more important.

[DeathMOS30[501st]]

That may be a possibility again everyone that has been posting here make sure you post in the 501st legion forum or at least send an email to the command staff at the legion level and make sure your voices are heard.

Also if you posted in the 501st forum please provide a link to the thread so others can converse there as well.

Maybe the 501th Legion could ask to the writer more information or other illustration. I could ask her, but I am only a singular person, I think the 501th Legion is more important.

[DeathMOS30[501st]]

That may be a possibility again everyone that has been posting here make sure you post in the 501st legion forum or at least send an email to the command staff at the legion level and make sure your voices are heard.

Also if you posted in the 501st forum please provide a link to the thread so others can converse there as well.

A post from the 2018 LMO team so you know who they are.

http://forum.specops501st.com/index.php?/topic/5597-greetings-from-the-lmo-team-2018/

[izzi[TX]]

I appreciate everyone's enthusiasm for this costume and encourage you to keep looking for the reference materials needed to complete the missing parts of this CRL. However, we need to work within the Legion guidelines and gather the sources required to bring this costume back to life.

All Legion Costumes follow the same guidelines set forth here: https://databank.501st.com/databank/Costuming:CharacterApproval

 

Maybe the 501th Legion could ask to the writer more information or other illustration. I could ask her, but I am only a singular person, I think the 501th Legion is more important.

 

Unfortunately according to the New to Legion policy: "Costumes based only on text descriptions cannot be approved." If official LFL art was released based on the writer's description came to light, that would definitely change things. This is how the Snow Scout eventually became an official costume after years of not having enough references to do so.

 

So please keep an eye out for the sources needed and don't hesitate to present them when found.

[Kida]

And..If the writer did a LFL art based in the CRL of Seyn Marana that was available for some time, this could be good?

[izzi[TX]]

And..If the writer did a LFL art based in the CRL of Seyn Marana that was available for some time, this could be good?

 

Yeah, basically any LFL approved artwork of the character that fills in the items we're currently missing would be good.

[Scubacat[TX]]

I am going to make a stand on this that we may have lost the CRL, but this gives us a chance to focus on others for the time being. If more artwork comes out of the character, then we can return to this.

 

 

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[Janem[TX]]

First of all: I'm very sorry for everybody who has worked on a Seyn costume. I can understand that you must be frustrated by the decission of the LMOs. But I still believe that it was the right thing to do. The Seyn CRL should never have been published in the first place, as it was against the regulations of the legion. It does not matter, if we have other costume which are hardly known to anybody than die hard fans. As long as they match the requirements of a legion costume its ok to have a CRL.

As I pointed out earlier in this thread, there are not enough visual references of syen (right now) to make a CRL. And her armor is not even described in the book.

Mybe more of her will be seen in the future.