New CRL Proposal - Lieutenant Janek Sunber (SW:E)

[Tarrif[TX]]

WARNING - THIS CRL IS PENDING APPROVAL AND REQUIREMENTS THEREIN ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE

 

Updated 5/9. Please review and post your thoughts for CRL Team consideration.

 

Visual References (Star Wars: Empire by Dark Horse Comics):

 

 

Required Costume Components

The following costume components are present and appear as described below.

 

Appearance

For 501st approval:

• Should be clean shaven as seen in the comics.
• Hair should give the appearance of being short in length.

Hat, Olive

For 501st approval:

• Fabric is a medium weight suiting material of olive green.
• Base of the hat is conical, with a crown about 4" (101.6 mm) tall.
• Front and rear flaps overlap on the sides and are about 4" (101.6 mm) high.
• Front bill extends 3" down, decorated with (5) (6) or (7) concentric stitches.
• Imperial Code Disk positioned in the center of the front vertical flap.

For level two certification (if applicable):

• Code Disk has a notch detail on the outermost disk.

Green Imperial Jumpsuit

For 501st approval:

• One piece olive green coverall / jumpsuit with a front invisible zipper and mandarin collar.
• Each shoulder has an Imperial Army patch that sits about 1 inch below the shoulder seam
• Below the patch on each arm there is a small pocket with the rectangular flap closure that ends just above the elbow.
• 2 large chest pockets.
• There are no leg pockets below the knees.
• 2 large cargo pockets sit on the outside of the legs from around mid-thigh extending to around the bottom of the knee, with a rectangular flap covering the top.

For level 2 certification (if applicable)

• Mandarin collar is closed by a chevron shaped strap across the neck.
• Collar is closed by a rectangular piece of velcro. Stitching is visible from the exterior.

Imperial Army Patch

For 501st approval:

• A shield shaped patch.
• The patch has an Imperial cog symbol approximately 2.75 to 3 inches in diameter.
• The background of the patch has a more narrow shield shaped design on top of a box colored a darker shade of green.

Imperial Rank Bar

• Rank consists of colored plastic tiles mounted on a metallic finish square
• Rank bar corners are hard angle or slightly rounded.
• The rank of Lieutenant (2 red tiles on top of 2 blue tiles) is the only acceptable rank.

Gloves

For 501st approval:

• Black, wrist length gloves constructed of a non-textured leather or leather-like material.
• Enclosed fingers.
• No buckles, straps, etc.
• May have three stitched lines or square padding on the back of the hand.

For level 2 certification (if applicable)

• No buckles, straps, etc.
• Must have square padding on back of hand.

Web Harness

For 501st approval:

• Olive green colored, double strap "H" harness which travels from the lower back, and up over the shoulders.
• Harness is made of 2 inch Olive green nylon webbing.
• The harness system attaches to the belt.
• Visible snap-hook style fasteners that attach to belt eyelets are acceptable.
• Tri-glides may be present on front or back of suspenders.
• Back of suspenders may be permanently fastened to belt, but not required.
• Left suspender has a comlink clip/holster.
• Right suspender has a vanity pouch attached.

For level 2 certification (if applicable)

• The main body of harness fasteners are discreetly hidden behind the belt, or it is directly mounted to belt
• Harness is fitted to the wearer and no tri-glides are present.
• Comlink is present.

Belt

For 501st approval:

• Belt is a 2.25" wide nylon military style quick release web belt.
• Belt is olive green in color.
• Belt has grommets that run along both the top and bottom of its length.

For level two certification (if applicable):

• Belt buckle is olive green in color.

Belt Pouches

For 501st approval:

• Belt pouches are olive green in color and should be made of nylon or similar material.
• 2 rectangular pouches with a top flap, and strap from top to bottom securing it shut, sit to the right of the belt buckle where the harness meets the belt.
• A gas-mask style pouch sits on the right of the above pouches.
• A tactical triple AK magazine PALS belt pouch should be on the rear of the belt.
• An electrobinoculars pouch sits on the left of the belt buckle where the harness meets the belt.
• 2 rectangular pouches with a top flap, and strap from top to bottom securing it shut, sit to the left of the electrobinoculars pouch.

For level 2 certification (if applicable)

• Electrobinoculars are present

Boots

For 501st approval:

• Calf high black leather or leather like material.
• Jackboot or similar style
• Free of laces, decorative stitching, buckles on the instep or any other embellishments.
• Boots may have a single adjustment strap at the top outside of the boot, with the buckle no wider than 1". This need not be functional
• Zippers on the inside of the boot are acceptable, so long as they are concealed.
  • If the zipper is not covered by vinyl/ leather, it is painted black.

Optional Accessories

Items below are optional costume accessories. These items are not required for approval, but if present appear as described below.

 

Comlink

For 501st approval:

• Imperial Style Comlink to be worn in the comlink clip on the left suspender.

Electrobinoculars

For 501st approval:

• Scratch built or high end prop replica.

SE-14 Blaster Pistol

 

For 501st approval:

• Scratch built or high end prop replica.

Holster

For 501st approval:

• Retention style open back holster made to fit the SE-14 Blaster Pistol. A strap goes across the top to hold the blaster in place.
• Holster is worn on the right side so it hangs below all belt pouches and after the MA47 double handcuff MOLLE PALS belt pouches

[Tarrif[TX]]

Changes added to proposal:

 

3/26

 

Changed Flightsuit to Jumpsuit to avoid confusion with TIE flightsuits.

 

Jumpsuit:

• Removed front pocket requirement.
  
• Pockets added to each sleeve under patch now required.
  
• Cargo pocket requirement added.
  
• Added rectangular stitching for collar closure in Level 2.
  

Harness:

• Comlink holster/Clip now required on Left suspender.
  
• Vanity pouch now required on Right suspender.
  

Belt:

• Correct pouch configuration now required.
  

Gloves:

• Olive green gloves required for approval.
  
• Square padding on back of hand required for Level 2.
  
• Added length descriptor
  

Boots:

• Removed option for hobnails.
  

Comlink:

• Added into accessories.
  

Holster:

• Changed style of acceptable holster.
  

3/27

• Upon discussion with the LMOs, this uniform is considered unique to one character and has been changed from a generic officer to "Lieutenant Janeck Sunber"
  
• Appearance was added of being clean shaven with the appearance of short hair to represent the character.
  

4/3

• Replaced the handcuff pouches with a more accurate description: 2 rectangular pouches with a top flap, and strap from top to bottom securing it shut
  

5/9

• Updated some wording a requirements with similar LMO expectations of the approved Engineer CRL.
  

Edited May 9, 2018 by izzi
Updated changes made.

[izzi[TX]]

Post pinned.

[izzi[TX]]

THe CRL team is review this proposal with changes this weekend and this thread will be updated and opened for Detachment review next week.

[izzi[TX]]

Updated today. Please have a look and post your thoughts. Be sure to check the visual references.

[ShovelGuy[TX]]

For the Electrobinoculars pouch a few people including myself have used a Olive MOLLE Gas Mask Bag . In the Comic it appears to be an open top pouch that the binoculars slide into . Also I believe on the right side of the belt the pouches look more like MOLLE Double Frag Grenade Pouch and a single MOLLE Grenade pouch rather than the handcuff pouches .In the Star Wars Empire Comic The Wrong Side of The War Part 1 you can see Lieutenant Sunber has 3 pouches on his right side that appear to have buckles . In Empire Comic " To The Last Man" there is a trooper , looks like the purposed IA Specialist , has two pouches on his left side that appear to be like the handcuff pouches but with button snaps . These would be perfect as filler pouches for the left side in between the electrobinocular pouch and the 3-cell mag pouch on the back of the belt.

[mattnelson521[TX]]

In Reference to the Gas mask Bag above i think it would work good as shown below. But from the conversation Neal and I had last night. I think this would be a great Alternative. https://www.ebay.com/itm/112171994144thisI also like the idea of using Grenade pouches but this could maybe used in the Trooper over Officer.

 

 

[mattnelson521[TX]]

A couple thoughts and changes highlighted in green below. To expand I'll give my thoughts here.

 

To start its unclear what kind of electrobinoculars pouch to use. I think to keep things uniform it would be ideal to specify the Molle Style Binocular pouch should be used for a level 1 Certification. Neal pointed this one out to me last night. https://www.ebay.com/itm/112171994144 I think this would work great. One thing I like about it, is with some modifications. I think it could closely match the comics and be used for a good Level 2 Certification.

 

Moving on to the Electrinoculars. I think reviewing the comics the one in the pouch is clearly different then the one that they hold in their hands or use. Im unable to find the one in the pouch outside of the pouch and or any multiple angles due to this. For a standard I think since we have the most reference photos of the one outside the pouch the designs should be based off that one more then the one in the pouch. And to be honest the one that's in the pouch looks more like a communication device then binos, but that's just my 2 cents on that. I like the idea of people scratch building their binos, but maybe we could add a Level 2 to for an accurate electrinoculars based off the comics.

 

This leads me to the commlink. As shown in the comics it's clearly a different style then the Imperial style commlink. Again, similar to above I think there should be a Level 2 for accuracy and have the Comlinks based off the Imperial Army style Comlink from the comics.

 

The binos and comlinks and a few other items if different I like the idea of referring to them as Imperial Army style vs the Imperial Style.

 

Belt Pouches

For 501st approval:

· Belt pouches are olive green in color and should be made of nylon or similar material.

· MA47 double handcuff MOLLE PALS belt pouches should be on the right of the belt buckle where the harness meets the belt.

· A gas-mask style pouch sits on the right following MA47 double handcuff MOLLE PALS belt pouches

· A tactical triple AK magazine PALS belt pouch should be on the rear of the belt.

· An electrobinoculars pouch sits on the left of the belt buckle where the harness meets the belt.

The electrobinoculars pouch can be a Molle style binocular pouch.

· MA47 double handcuff MOLLE PALS belt pouches sit to the left of the electrobinoculars pouch.

 

For level 2 certification (if applicable)

· Electrobinoculars are present

· Electrobinoculars pouch is open top and is half the height of the electrobinoculars.

.

 

Comlink

For 501st approval:

· Imperial Style Comlink to be worn in the comlink clip on the left suspender.

 

For level 2 certification (if applicable)

· Imperial Army Style Comlink Based of the Comic images Star Wars Empire #16 – 18 To the Last Man #1 - #3 and Star Wars Empire #36 The Wrong Side of the War #1

 

Electrobinoculars

For 501st approval:

· Scratch built or high end prop replica.

 

For level 2 certification (if applicable)

· Imperial Army Style electrobinoculars Based of the Comic images Star Wars Empire #16 – 18 To the Last Man #1 - #3 and Star Wars Empire #36 The Wrong Side of the War #1

 

Also, I think we should use images similar to the Comics style designed. So these are proposed Images that could be used if needed.

Imperial Army Electrobinoculars

 

Imperial Army Commlink

 

Not this CRL but also Imperial Army Telemetry Unit

[ShovelGuy[TX]]

Another possibility for a CRL would be for Lieutenant Sunber . As he is the only Imperial Army Officer we see in a "Combat Uniform " its hard to say if all other offocers wore the equipment and uniform in the same manor as him . I think if head a separate CRL that was based on his appearance in the Empire Comics that would allow for a specific and additional CRL for Imperial Army . I Definitely Agree with Matt in regards to the Comlink and Electrobinoculars . it is very clear even in the Comic`s art style that the Comlink is a specific design and not a generic Comlink . Since most reference material is coming from what one character and from a comic , whose art style is rather subject to the artists interpretation, i think the Imperial Army Officer as well as Trooper should be approached with some real world logic .

[izzi[TX]]

Another possibility for a CRL would be for Lieutenant Sunber . As he is the only Imperial Army Officer we see in a "Combat Uniform " its hard to say if all other offocers wore the equipment and uniform in the same manor as him . I think if head a separate CRL that was based on his appearance in the Empire Comics that would allow for a specific and additional CRL for Imperial Army . I Definitely Agree with Matt in regards to the Comlink and Electrobinoculars . it is very clear even in the Comic`s art style that the Comlink is a specific design and not a generic Comlink . Since most reference material is coming from what one character and from a comic , whose art style is rather subject to the artists interpretation, i think the Imperial Army Officer as well as Trooper should be approached with some real world logic .

 

I actually have a call with an LMO schedule and am going to ask if this should be a CRL for Sunber, since it seems to be a style unique to him, or if it's safe to assume this would be available to other officers in the Imperial Army.

 

As far as the comlink goes: yes, artistic license has been taken and when adding real world logic you can see how this comlink:

becomes this:

 

Granted, I'm not saying we can't create something more accurate to the look in the comic, but I do feel the classic imperial style comlink should be acceptable for wear.

[ShovelGuy[TX]]

I think making Lieutenant Sunber a separate CRL would have two benefits , 1) It`d give the growing Imperial Army a named character rather than generic Officers and Troopers , 2) it would allow those of us who are nearly complete with their costumes , myself included , to focus on either representing Lt. Sunber specifically or a generic Army Officer .

 

For Imperial Army Officer I`d make some of the extra stuff like additional cargo pockets a level two requirement as it basically means you need to buy another coverall to scrounge to make the pockets matching in color .

[mattnelson521[TX]]

I actually have a call with an LMO schedule and am going to ask if this should be a CRL for Sunber, since it seems to be a style unique to him, or if it's safe to assume this would be available to other officers in the Imperial Army.

 

As far as the comlink goes: yes, artistic license has been taken and when adding real world logic you can see how this comlink:

becomes this:

 

Granted, I'm not saying we can't create something more accurate to the look in the comic, but I do feel the classic imperial style comlink should be acceptable for wear.

 

 

I can see where the Imperial Style Comlink has some similarities but it's clearly a different design which is why im suggesting a Level 2 for accuracy. At the very least i feel the verbiage should be adjusted to state something to the extent of adding "or style based on the comics." I know and can see someone going for approval of this costume with their interpretation of the commlink based off the comics and not the imperial style and having it rejected. This will allow people to clearly do either or.

 

Also there was no response to the Pouches. I think this should be addressed as well. What are your thoughts?

The Electrobinocular pouch is not clearly specified like everything else in the CRL for pouches. Is the Molle gas mask pouch acceptable or should we use a Molle binocular pouch or is there a better option?

Also can the Molle Grenade Pouch be used rather then or even in place of the Handcuff pouches?

[izzi[TX]]

I think making Lieutenant Sunber a separate CRL would have two benefits , 1) It`d give the growing Imperial Army a named character rather than generic Officers and Troopers , 2) it would allow those of us who are nearly complete with their costumes , myself included , to focus on either representing Lt. Sunber specifically or a generic Army Officer .

 

For Imperial Army Officer I`d make some of the extra stuff like additional cargo pockets a level two requirement as it basically means you need to buy another coverall to scrounge to make the pockets matching in color .

 

The problem with that is there is no other "Army Officer" shown in this outfit, or even something similar. All other officers are always dressed in the standard officer tunic. So either this look is Sunber, or it's generic. There's no point in building the same CRL twice with different names.

 

As for the cargo pockets, they are on every single jumpsuit. The fact that they are a part of the base suit pattern isn't in question, so they need to stay. That being said, this isn't an "official" change yet, so if you're pretty much done with your outfit, you can get it into your GML and have it approved under the current standards.

[izzi[TX]]

I can see where the Imperial Style Comlink has some similarities but it's clearly a different design which is why im suggesting a Level 2 for accuracy. At the very least i feel the verbiage should be adjusted to state something to the extent of adding "or style based on the comics." I know and can see someone going for approval of this costume with their interpretation of the commlink based off the comics and not the imperial style and having it rejected. This will allow people to clearly do either or.

 

I understand what you're saying, and I agree on that point. As an optional accessory, either should be able to be carried. Maybe we can require a comic style for level 2. Definitely worth further discussion from detachment members

 

Also there was no response to the Pouches. I think this should be addressed as well. What are your thoughts?

The Electrobinocular pouch is not clearly specified like everything else in the CRL for pouches. Is the Molle gas mask pouch acceptable or should we use a Molle binocular pouch or is there a better option?

Also can the Molle Grenade Pouch be used rather then or even in place of the Handcuff pouches?

No, this isn't clearly identified, as no one has made one as of yet. It should look close to the pouch seen in the comic. Right now, keep tossing ideas out there, whether it's something scratch-built, store bought, or modified. Unfortunately with new costumes sometimes you have to see it all together. Also CRLs get stricter as techniques are developed and parts are found the make accuracy more widely available.

[mattnelson521[TX]]

I understand what you're saying, and I agree on that point. As an optional accessory, either should be able to be carried. Maybe we can require a comic style for level 2. Definitely worth further discussion from detachment members

 

 

No, this isn't clearly identified, as no one has made one as of yet. It should look close to the pouch seen in the comic. Right now, keep tossing ideas out there, whether it's something scratch-built, store bought, or modified. Unfortunately with new costumes sometimes you have to see it all together. Also CRLs get stricter as techniques are developed and parts are found the make accuracy more widely available.

 

thank you for your response. As for the first part i think that would be greatly appreciated if we can look into the comlink stuff. I personally feel a Level 2 would be better but at the very least a mention to style after the comics would work as well.

 

as for the pouches. would at least a closed top molle bino case be acceptable? For me the style in the comics i would worry about them falling out or being messed with. a closed top would secure them better.

[mattnelson521[TX]]

 

No, this isn't clearly identified, as no one has made one as of yet. It should look close to the pouch seen in the comic. Right now, keep tossing ideas out there, whether it's something scratch-built, store bought, or modified. Unfortunately with new costumes sometimes you have to see it all together. Also CRLs get stricter as techniques are developed and parts are found the make accuracy more widely available.

 

So per tossing ideas out there im going to throw these out there to see what you think. Just as in person notes. The Thermal Detonator fits a lot nicer in the Grenade Pouch Vs the Cuff Pouch. Hard to tell in the photos but the Cuff pouch didn't want to close that well.

 

 

pouches comparison (left to Right)

Mag Cuff Grenade Comlink

 

Handcuff Vs Grenade Pouches

 

3 styles of Harness Pouches

Cuff

Grenade

Magazine

 

Grenade Pouch with Thermal Detonator

 

Cuff Pouch with Thermal Detonator

 

Note on Thermal Detonator. It fits better in the Grenade Pouch vs Cuff Pouch

 

Side photo with a Dual Grenade Pouch

[izzi[TX]]

Upon discussion with the LMOs, this uniform is considered unique to one character, and has been changed from a generic officer to "Lieutenant Janeck Sunber."

 

So per tossing ideas out there im going to throw these out there to see what you think. Just as in person notes. The Thermal Detonator fits a lot nicer in the Grenade Pouch Vs the Cuff Pouch. Hard to tell in the photos but the Cuff pouch didn't want to close that well.

I see what your saying. Guess I should have googled the pouches as well. The reference material pouches are more rectangular holding a box shape with a strap down the front. We may have to look for something more in line with the comics. Possibly something like this dyed green.

Reference:

 

[ShovelGuy[TX]]

I`d tend to disagree with using Yugo SKS pouches . Considering all the other web gear is nylon logically the pouches should also be nylon . And dying it green probably wont make it turn out the way you want it . Although it appears to have become a race against the clock . Try and get approved as Imperial Army Officer before your effort becomes pointless.

[izzi[TX]]

I`d tend to disagree with using Yugo SKS pouches . Considering all the other web gear is nylon logically the pouches should also be nylon . And dying it green probably wont make it turn out the way you want it . Although it appears to have become a race against the clock . Try and get approved as Imperial Army Officer before your effort becomes pointless.

If we can find or make a similar nylon pouch and build a form to create the right shape, that's definitely a possibility. The SKS pouches were more to show the general shape and form we're going for, not saying to use that exact item.

 

If you want to be approved under the current "Officer" standards, then yes. It is a race against the clock. When we have this figured out and it is approved by the LMO team, we will also be announcing a grace period for people who are currently working on costumes under the current standards to finish and be approved. So you're currently looking at at least a couple months worth of time to race against for completion.

[izzi[TX]]

Found this which may be really close to what we're looking for. I don't like the zipper around it, but it's closer in shape with the front flap and strap across the front.

 

https://tacticalgear...-pouch-od-green

 

 

 

[mattnelson521[TX]]

I think that the pouches we have already selected will work at the very least for a Level 1. When they are filled they look more accurate. The ones in the comics are more in-likely going to have to to be custom made which i think at that point could/should be a level 2 standard just like we have been suggesting for the Comlink. Having the 2 level options will allow people to have a decent looking costume with the ability to improve it down the road for more accuracy if they want. Personally if i have to buy all new pouches im done with this costume. The Reference photos i posted above where for the Cuffs pouch and Grenade Pouches to suggest they both could i think be used. And not to suggest we start all over from scratch over the pouches.

 

For Example these images show both.

 

[ShovelGuy[TX]]

I think having a mix of the two pouches should also be a possibility . As Matt and I have been discussing there are several pouch that look similar to the styles used in the comic . I think scraping the pouch idea and starting from scratch is a horrible idea . Many people who are currently working on this costume have already bought the pouches stated in the Original CRL . To start fresh basically means those individuals have wasted money on pouches they will no longer be able to use , even though they are similar to pouches that appear in the comic . As someone who is new to the 501st I find some of the purposed changes as well as the lack of addressing subjects to be rather disheartening . I`d invite others to comment their thoughts as well , including the LMO .

 

Another topic that comes to mind is even with the purposed "Grace Period " for people currently working on the Imperial Army Officer costume when a new CRL is added will those who are approved be stripped of their approval and forced to conform to the Lt. Sunber regulations ? I've invested a lot of time , energy and money into my costume so far I'd hate to have all of it be for nothing .

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Is the issue with the pouches related to the center "strap" on the reference images and the nylon ones not having that distinctive part? As Matt said, can't that be a Level 2 distinction? The nylon pouches seem very close to me minus that detail...particularly the mag pouch.

[izzi[TX]]

I think that the pouches we have already selected will work at the very least for a Level 1. When they are filled they look more accurate. The ones in the comics are more in-likely going to have to to be custom made which i think at that point could/should be a level 2 standard just like we have been suggesting for the Comlink. Having the 2 level options will allow people to have a decent looking costume with the ability to improve it down the road for more accuracy if they want. Personally if i have to buy all new pouches im done with this costume. The Reference photos i posted above where for the Cuffs pouch and Grenade Pouches to suggest they both could i think be used. And not to suggest we start all over from scratch over the pouches.

 

For Example these images show both.

 

The top image is of a normal Imperial Army Trooper, as you see his pouches are very plain with a simple snap closure, and the way they hang suggests that they are indeed cloth pouches. There are no plans to change the pouch requirement on the Imperial Army Trooper.

 

Lt. Sunber is a costume unique to the comics and his character. Which is why received an LMO ruling for him to be a unique character. Unique to his outfit are pouches that hold a shape, with the center strap. This CRL is not yet live or approved by the LMOs. If you are building to be Lt. Sunber, there will be changes made as the CRL is being developed. If you are building to the current CRL, you don't have to worry.

 

Another topic that comes to mind is even with the purposed "Grace Period " for people currently working on the Imperial Army Officer costume when a new CRL is added will those who are approved be stripped of their approval and forced to conform to the Lt. Sunber regulations ? I've invested a lot of time , energy and money into my costume so far I'd hate to have all of it be for nothing .

 

No, you don't get "stripped of approval" all approved costumes are approved for use in the Legion for the life of the costume. Doesn't matter if CRL details are changed afterwards.

This CRL is not a live CRL, and all officer configurations are not currently judged by this document. They are judged by the "Officer Configuration" found in the current Imperial Army Trooper CRL: http://databank.501s...al_army_trooper

If you are currently building to the specs shown in that CRL, then you'll be able to get approved under the guidelines for that CRL.

If the CRL changes, we will formally announce the time of the change and give you time to finish your costume and get approved under the current CRL.

[mattnelson521[TX]]

Lt. Sunber is a costume unique to the comics and his character. Which is why received an LMO ruling for him to be a unique character. Unique to his outfit are pouches that hold a shape, with the center strap. This CRL is not yet live or approved by the LMOs. If you are building to be Lt. Sunber, there will be changes made as the CRL is being developed. If you are building to the current CRL, you don't have to worry.

 

 

Thank You Izzi for the clarification on this stuff. Sorry for being a pain. Hopefully i can finish the current Officer just waiting on my Hat. That aside going back to the pouches. I think we can all agree there are some small differences with the pouches from the comics and the Molle pouches. But i still think as a level one Molle pouches should be allowed. When the pouch is filled it should hold its shape so from your comment above the real difference is just the center strap.

 

If this is the case I propose as the level one that Molle pouches are acceptable if we add a single strap centered on the pouch.

 

This will allow people to still do the Costume without having to custom make all the pouches. As a level 2 then they should be more accurate to the comics just like we suggested for the comlink.

 

This being said do you have any suggested type of fabric we should be using for the pouches?