New CRL Proposal: Imperial Army Officer (Various Sources)

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Does anyone have any input?  Id like to keep this rolling. Our Armor has arrived from Scooch.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

@Blackwatch none yet on my end.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Ok, thanks. Itll be a bit before Wren and Krysis can get the armor trimmed and the coveralls modded and tailored to her.

[wrendevu[501st]]

On 12/5/2018 at 11:04 PM, Blackwatch said:

DISCUSSION:

While based on the ATAT commander / Veers, there are a few differences  :

grey color.  I would suggest that any group doing this match with the same shade of grey paint.  To me, primer grey is perfectly fine. Flat to satin finish , no gloss.  

The various designs listed in the proposal, and as represented by the three pieces of art, match what we know about Veers/ Ground Commander armor, with different colors called out.  The only differences in the chestbox depression greeblie  layout I see is that one of the bottom squares may be dark grey, or red, and this is backed up by the art, and partly supported by the ATAT Ground commander CRL which has a grey button.  The color differences are minor.  

Wren brings up the straps, which are represented as smooth in each of the three pieces of art by three different artists, however in each film and behind the scenes photo we clearly see the ribbed straps seen on Snowtroopers.  See reference photos below. Also note that now we see the origin of the button, since we will not have the belly armor panel to hide it.   

Another observation is the 1.5CM grey webbing holding the armor together.  Shouldn't this be 1.5 INCH, which is clearly what this is when seen on the left side? 

This type of footman loop is used on snowtroopers, it could be  mounted to hold the strap. 

https://www.strapworks.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=PFL&gclid=Cj0KCQiAi57gBRDqARIsABhDSMpRVxQqzYsLHVCKQvSWF-OPwD0It3Nhg8UHYNDZNvpNid6baAotIdMaAvPLEALw_wcB

AND, yet another observation, which may be me just looking at these photos too much, but in the art of Veers there is clearly a structural greeblie (circled in red). The photos show something that may be the same hemispheres from the opposite side , placed on the raised detail on the wearers right side. These are both casting shadows, and reflecting light.  Young Veers art shows a structural greeblie, male ground commander shows 

Sorry I went MIA

I recently had the surgery but I'm ready to get back to it. 

I believe the straps should be smooth but some clarification would be nice to be able to move forward.

I do agree with all the other points Dewka made. ?

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

OK everyone, sorry but I got sent TDY to Chicago for a week again, with zero notice, AGAIN, and this looks like it will be the new reality of keeping our jobs.  

getting to the topic at hand,  we have the Greeblie , which may just be artist interpretation, and not supported by the other two supporting illustrations. 

The Straps are smooth in all three source art pieces.  This is a point that needs to be nailed out and confirmed with the LMO.  The color of the squares is up for debate as well.  The Greeblie shown on Veers is cool and all, but Im not necesarily for making it a requirement since its only seen on one art. 

@wrendevu have you had any updates? 

@Raider  thoughts or input on what the three topics at hand are?  

 

 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Ok so back to the forums-yay- and looking for any progress or discussion on the topics above.  

[RAIDER[COTG]]

On 1/21/2019 at 8:45 PM, Blackwatch said:

OK everyone, sorry but I got sent TDY to Chicago for a week again, with zero notice, AGAIN, and this looks like it will be the new reality of keeping our jobs.  

getting to the topic at hand,  we have the Greeblie , which may just be artist interpretation, and not supported by the other two supporting illustrations. 

The Straps are smooth in all three source art pieces.  This is a point that needs to be nailed out and confirmed with the LMO.  The color of the squares is up for debate as well.  The Greeblie shown on Veers is cool and all, but Im not necesarily for making it a requirement since its only seen on one art. 

@wrendevu have you had any updates? 

@Raider  thoughts or input on what the three topics at hand are?  

 

 

Is text currently update that I can do a run through and match to references?  References are all updated in original thread that are being used?  Thanks man!

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

I just checked the text in the original post and fixed one server migration error, and it looks ready for your review. We are still working from the 3 source images.   I know Wren is working over her coveralls and Ive asked her to update us.  Our armor is on hand but untrimmed at this time.  

 

[wrendevu[501st]]

Coveralls are taking a long time. I'm a novice when it comes to sewing so it's slow going.

Not sure what is being asked.  Are we still discussing the straps?

[RAIDER[COTG]]

7 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

I just checked the text in the original post and fixed one server migration error, and it looks ready for your review. We are still working from the 3 source images.   I know Wren is working over her coveralls and Ive asked her to update us.  Our armor is on hand but untrimmed at this time.  

 

Gotcha.  I'll check it out then.  I think I was getting confused on what references were good or not between the original ones, the Rebels ones (not being used), and the Veers.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

you are correct sir!  The best refereces we have, and the only references used currently, are the three at the top of the proposal, understanding that this is young Maximilian Veers early in his carreer with the Imperial Army, and two others using the same tan coveralls. 

Wren we need to discuss the straps (smooth as we see them not ribbed like the other Ground Commander) as well as any other details. 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

17 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

you are correct sir!  The best refereces we have, and the only references used currently, are the three at the top of the proposal, understanding that this is young Maximilian Veers early in his carreer with the Imperial Army, and two others using the same tan coveralls. 

Wren we need to discuss the straps (smooth as we see them not ribbed like the other Ground Commander) as well as any other details. 

Oh I remember…the other thing that confused me was the link you posted for securing the strap.  Your just posting that as a "how to make it function" thing right not as something to be added to the CRL itself?

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

The link I had posted was for the side strap.  You can see a horizontal elastic that holds the front and back armor together. 

The ShoulderStrap is the main item of concern.  In all three art sources, it is smooth and not ribbed like a TX shoulderstrap.  If it were omitted, it would not have been omitted in all three arts. I edited  four images in Paint to give us this view to compare to the actual costume. 

The ribbing and its shadows seen on General Veers in the behind the scenes photo are missing from all versions of the art.  We all agree this is young Max Veers, however that does not mean that the armor remained the same through his career,   therefore we put forward that in THIS instance, the Army ground commander has smooth shoulderstraps. 

 

 

[Krysis[501st]]

Agreed! 100% smooth shoulder straps... all 3 pictures show no texture.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

I'll be taking lead on this, I am fairly close and have almost all the parts other than helmet greeblies

[RAIDER[COTG]]

@Blackwatch Touch base w/ @Tarrif about this ASAP and figure out an attack plan on getting this done.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Shot Sebastion a PM.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Looking at our art, and comparing it to the established CRL for the ATAT Commander, two issues come up which we have previously discussed. 

1 Rank--on page 2 of this discussion we agreed that Spec Ops likes its option, that being 5 rank tiles.  The ATAT commander, and Veers, wore four tiles.   My current thinking before we propose this to the LMO is to reduce the rank tiles to a total of eight, four red and four blue. 

2 the silver greeblie on the right side.  it is not well defined, its hard to see, and in photos we know that the two lumps on Veers chest armor had three raised domes.  Im willing to forgo the greeblie seen only in the character art, for the bumps we see in the Veers images, and on the approved ATAT commander. 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

@Blackwatch I've given both of our LMO reps a heads up about this CRL and to come take a look at it, the references, etc. to see if they have any new input/feedback as they are different LMOs from when this project first started and Toddo ok'd the references (use of Veers...and the back). 

@Hask being one of the LMOs assigned to us this term (I don't know Brian's username here yet to tag him).

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

I laid on two different primers today, both a rustoleum product.  typical rustoleum primer on the insides and rustoleum2x Flat Grey primer on the oustide which is clearly a darker color.  This is for comparison purposes only. 

this is darker,but in direct sunlight. 

 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

@stormtrooperguy LMO tagged so you can find it easier from notifications.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

I have the helmet parts in hand and I am working on them now.  

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Ok, here is my updated proposal on the CRL. I have read through the discussion, and having given time and cosnideration, would propose the following changes. 

Removals in red strikethrough 

changes edits in cyan

Please comment on this proposal. 

Imperial Army Officer CRL Proposal V 1.1 

Required Costume Components

The following costume components are present and appear as described below.

All paint sheen is to be matte, satin or semi gloss.  Color is grey. 

Helmet

• Open face helmet consisting of a dome (with rim) and helmet skirt.
• Helmet is based on the shell of the Snowtrooper/Snow Cmdr. and the AT-ST Driver.
• The helmet is painted a Gray color.
• A "Rangefinder" is attached to the helmet dome. This is centered to the right side of the dome and aligned to the rim.
  • The rangefinder consists of :
  • Rectangular box about h/l/d 1.85" (47mm), 1.65" (42mm), 0.4" (10.16mm) with a slight bevel and details on. The box is the same color as the helmet.
  • 1 screw cap or cylindrical knob approx. 0.4" (10.16mm) in diameter in the upper left corner.
  • 2 cylindrical pins lined up in the lower left corner of the box.
  • 1 cylindrical pin in the upper right corner of the box.
  • 1 Rangefinder main detail (originally created from a Revell V8 carburetor, but not to be confused with the "Han Solo blaster" piece), aligned at the lower right corner of the box.
  • Ring shaped antenna on top of the box with about 1.5" (38.1mm) in diameter and 0.35" (9mm) depth being cut at the top.
• There are 5 flat rectangular clips, positioned equally around the helmet where the dome meets the skirt. (1 in the center, 2 on each side).
• Imperial Code Disks are positioned on both sides of the helmet skirt.
• There are 6 screw cover greeblies may be positioned equally around the bottom of the helmet skirt (3 on each side).
• A black trim is covering   covers the edge of the helmet skirt and forehead of the dome.
• Black chin strap (without a chin cup).
• Silver/metallic cylindrical 'Spine shaped Greeblie' bar in the rear center of the helmet skirt.
• The bar is divided into 11 segments with the thicker 6 segments ideally fitting into the 6 depressions of the rear helmet skirt.
• Com-link microphone attached to the RH inner side of the helmet, in a curved shape, with a small conical end, painted in black.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Com-link Microphone is not attached directly to the helmet. It is a separately worn Headset. See : "Optional Accessories" below.

Goggles

• Black trimmed military style goggles, with a Light Gray, Tan or Black strap.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Goggles are angular, and not rounded in shape.
• Strap is black, and approx 5/8' (1.5 CM) width, with a small buckle on both sides.

Tan Imperial Army Jumpsuit

• One piece tan coverall / jumpsuit / flightsuit with a hidden front zipper and standing collar.
• The standing collar has square corners.
• The collar stands between 1.25" -2" (32mm to 50mm) in proportion to the wearer. 
• Collar closes snugly and includes a modesty panel behind closure.
• Chest pockets may be present if completely hidden by armor.
• 2 large cargo pockets sit on the outside of the legs from around mid-thigh and not extending past top of the knee, with a rectangular or chevron flap covering the top.
• Sleeves are bare without pockets or patches
• No pockets on, or below the knees.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Jumpsuit chest has a left panel that extends from the side seam to 3" past the center point.
• The panel rises to above the bottom of the chest armor. 
• The panel closes with a loop and button closure at the bottom about 2" above the waist.

Gauntlet Gloves

• Black, leather or leather-like, enclosed fingered, non-textured fitted gauntlet style.
• No buckles, straps, or decorative stitching.
• Three straight lines, on the back of the hand, are an option

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Back of hand is smooth without any decorative stitching whatsoever.

Chest Armor

Note : All references of Right & Left are from the wearers point-of-view.

• Chest Armor is painted to match the Helmet.
• Chest armor is based on the ATAT Commanders' armor. 
• There are (2) red square greeblies on the right of the center depression.
• There are (2) white squares on the left side.
• There are two buttons at the bottom of the center depression. Blue on the right, and red or dark grey on the wearer's left.
• There are various designs within the center depression.
• May be accomplished with decals.
• Right side of the chest plate may have a silver greeblie.
• Three knobs on the left side, just next-to the center depression: Red, Blue & White.
• Raised lines on left side are painted black.
• The front and back armor are connected by tan webbing passing beneath the shoulder bridges. 
• For basic approval snowtrooper style ribbed shoulder bridges connect the back and chest armors.                                        
• Straps are painted to match the helmet and armor.
• Three small screw cover greeblies, in a triangular formation, at the front of each strap.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Smooth Shoulder bridges connect the Back and Chest Armor. 
• Three small screw cover greeblies, in a triangular formation, at the front of each strap.
• Grey webbing, approx  1" (25,,)  in width, passing under the arm to connect the Chest and Back Armor.
• A silver snap may be present on the webbing, approx 1" from the Back Armor..

Back Armor

• Snow Commander style back armor, painted to match the Helmet.
• Circuit Board detail plate on rear of Back Armor, with custom back decals and greeblies.
• Three buttons in the top right corner : Red, White & Red.
• Two red buttons on the left side, just above half way.
• OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
• Black rubber trim, in the neck-line of the Back Armor.

Rank Buttons

• Worn on the top left section of the chest.
• Rank consists of colored plastic tiles, mounted directly onto the chest armor (no metal bar).
• May be the rank of Commander (3 Red/3 Blue), or General (4 Red/4 Blue)
• Tile dimensions are, H 1/2" (12.7mm). W 3/4" (19mm). D 1/8" (3.2mm).
• Each tile spaced approx 3mm apart.
• Rank tiles are translucent. Color, quantity & combinations are determined by rank.

Belt

• The belt is constructed from a non-textured leather or a leather-like material.
• Approximately 2" (50.8 mm) in width, up to 3" (76.2 mm) is acceptable.
• There are no loops on the belt.
• A single large snap or rivet is visible approximately 1" (25.4 mm) from the buckle.
• The belt may be worn with the snap to the right or left of the wearer.
• The buckle is constructed from a horizontally brushed metal, or metal looking material.
• The buckle size is approximately 2 5/8" (66.7 mm) high and 4 1/8" (104.5 mm) wide with 0.5" (12.7 mm) radius rounded corners.
• Buckle is adorned with an Imperial Code Disk at the center.
• Please refer to the Imperial Buckle reference page for information on accurate and inaccurate style buckles.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Belt is made of leather.
• Snap is worn to the left of the wearer.
• Buckle has a slight horizontal curve.

Boots

• Calf high black leather or leather like material.
• Free of laces, decorative stitching, buckles on the instep or any other embellishments.
• Boots may have a single adjustment strap at the top outside of the boot, with the buckle no wider than 1".
• This need not be functional.
• Jackboot buckles should not be shiny/can be painted dingy grey or gun-metal color.
• Hobnails may be present on the front of the jackboots.
• Zippers on the inside of the boot are acceptable, so long as they are concealed.
• If the zipper is not covered by vinyl/ leather, it is painted black.
• German "jack boot" style boots are most canon.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Boots are made of leather.
• Original German jack boots (or Knobelbechers) or an authentic replication thereof.
• Boots have the top adjustment strap.

Optional Accessories

Items below are optional costume accessories. These items are not required for approval, but if present appear as described below. If adding in an accessory after initial approval, the item still needs to be submitted to local GML for approval before use.

 

Communications Headset

• Silver and black headset with microphone.

E-11 Blaster

• Based on a real or replica Sterling sub-machine gun, scratch-built, or a modified commercial toy Stormtrooper blaster.

E-11 Holster

[Corsair]

Two minor things dewka, in the proposal.

Under CHEST: Since the back armor is specifically mentioned as "Snow Commander style back armor",  is there going to be a  mention of what the front armor is or derived from?

Under JUMPSUIT: is there going to be a mention of collar height?  All the current officer CRL's say 1.25" to 2".  Also, that the collar closes with eye hooks.

Just an observation here about the chest panel: No mention is given about the size of the chest panel. I think it's possible that the panel could very well be the same size as the flap that covers the front of the officers tunic rather than just a smaller flap that cover below the armor. No doubt this is something you have already considered. I only mention it as there is no specific size given for the flap description in the proposed CRL other than this: Jumpsuit chest has a left panel that extends from the side seam to 3" past the center point

I've seen your jumpsuit so I already know you made yours as a short flap that just covers below the armor, but simply reading the proposed CRL doesn't give me that insight. Looking at pictures of both the jumpsuited officer and the tunic wearing officer, the edge of the flap falls in the same place on both. Obviously it doen't extend past the belt line they way it does on the tunic and the idea of a full chest flap on a jumpsuit is kind of ludicrous, but then they have done other things in designing these outfits that don't seem to make sense either and leaves those trying to recreate them scratching our heads.

 

[Corsair]

Addendum,

In connecting the chest and back armor at the sides, the proposed CRL mentions:

"Grey webbing, approx  1" (25,,)  in width, passing under the arm to connect the Chest and Back Armor.

A silver snap may be present on the webbing, approx 1" from the Back Armor.."

I assume it would done similar to the Veer's armor as pictured? or velcro'd to the inside of the back armor?