I need advice

[Christian Vasileff]

Hello my name is Christian I am in the process of getting a death trooper ready to wear kit and join the 501st and was wondering if anybody knew the best shops to do so. I am looking at 850 armor works and Armory shop LLC which is cheaper then 850s by a lot but I know 850s is higher quality anyone have any recommendations? Looking forward to meeting some of you thanks! 

[lancer[TX]]

I would say that of all the potentially approvable kits out there 850 is actually the worst one you could get. Not sure where the “higher quality” idea is originating from.   I would take an armoryshop suit all day every day over anything 850 makes.

[Christian Vasileff]

Why is that? 

[lancer[TX]]

Just now, Christian Vasileff said:

Why is that? 

Because their suit looks terrible.  Their abs pulls are way too soft for the detail that are required for a death trooper.  We have multiple troopers here locally who started out with an 850 kit that were unhappy with the quality and the look.  Especially once they saw someone in a proper suit.  Several have been binned and upgraded since then.

[Christian Vasileff]

4 minutes ago, lancer said:

Because their suit looks terrible.  Their abs pulls are way too soft for the detail that are required for a death trooper.  We have multiple troopers here locally who started out with an 850 kit that were unhappy with the quality and the look.  Especially once they saw someone in a proper suit.  Several have been binned and upgraded since then.

Really because I heard it’s the other way around? Are there any other people who can confirm this? I’m trying to decide what the best kit to purchase would be? If you have any other recommendations as well it would be much appreciated 

[Christian Vasileff]

12 minutes ago, lancer said:

Because their suit looks terrible.  Their abs pulls are way too soft for the detail that are required for a death trooper.  We have multiple troopers here locally who started out with an 850 kit that were unhappy with the quality and the look.  Especially once they saw someone in a proper suit.  Several have been binned and upgraded since then.

Can anyone else confirm this? 

[Christian Vasileff]

Hello my name is Christian I am in the process of getting a death trooper ready to wear kit and join the 501st and was wondering if anybody knew the best shops to do so. I am looking at 850 armor works and Armory shop LLC which is cheaper then 850s by a lot but I know 850s is higher quality anyone have any recommendations? Looking forward to meeting some of you thanks

[therealtotty[TX]]

So I have been building an ArmoryShopProps kit myself, and I will say that the detail is great. I have had to fill in things and fix a few things here and their, because it is a 3D print. I have seen the 850s and personally, and I don't like the vacuum form of DTs because the edges can't get sharp enough for my taste.

Example: https://imgur.com/a/keIL2Ay  The leg detail can be really sharp with 3D prints. This is the same leg on 850s site https://imgur.com/a/xW5eWDC

I am no spokesperson for ASP, but I love my kit. It is going to be far more work, but I think it's more rewarding and accurate.

-Michael

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

3D prints are always going to have the sharper details. We have both types of DTs in my garrison that I've approved and the ASP one looks a lot more solid than the 850. The guy with the 850 though was able to put some work into his and it doesn't look bad, but the ASP guy didn't really have to do too much.

[Chaos[CMD-DCA]]

@Christian Vasileff

Christian, first off, Welcome to Spec Ops. We get this type of question all the time. Both 850 and ASP are vetted Death Trooper suppliers and their kits are capable of being "approved" each kit has it's Pros and Cons. There are build threads in this sub-forum of each type that you can read thru and make your own decision based upon your own personal desires.

Below is a comment I posted on another troopers thread asking the same question. Though he was asking about 850 and The Plastic Arms Dealer (PAD) and not Armory Shop Props (ASP), the comparison is pretty much the same with the PAD kit being a fiberglass resin and ASP being a 3D print reinforced with fiberglass resin. I have read that 850 has added some resin and cast add-ons to their ABS kit which offer more detailing but some parts of their ABS kit still contain what are known as "soft pull" details.

XXXXXXXXX

Welcome to Spec Ops, your path to joining the 501st Legion is going to be an exciting one and at times overwhelming. There will be times when you feel like you are up against a wall and in need of some advice. When those occasions arise make sure you turn to our Community as there is a plethora of knowledgeable individuals here who  have been where you might be. There are no "dumb questions" ever in our group and the only dumb question is the question not asked.

Now, to your request for advice. There are several things a Trooper should consider when taking that leap to purchase their first set of armor etc.

What is your budget? How good are your crafting skills? How accurate do you want your build to be? Do you have other Legion builders who are near you (Local Garrison/Outpost) that can assist? These are the biggies.

Next you will want to do some research on the armor and supplier that you are considering. 850 Armorworks and The PlasticArmsDealer kits are both quite capable of being approved. Keep in mind that no kit is ever "approvable" straight out of the box. Some kits require more work that others, some kits are more "screen accurate" than others, but all kits will require trimming, assembling, and fitting to be "approvable." The best research you can do is search through the Death Trooper build threads that members of our Community have posted. Look for ones that have built the kits you are considering and see what their "pros" and "cons" have been during their builds.

Some things to keep in mind about the materials that are used in the construction of a kit. ABS kits are light weight plastic kits that have been heated and then vacuum pressed against a mold. The end results can be very good on larger less detailed pieces, but for pieces that have smaller intricate details, the details are less "sharp" and considered "soft pulls."  ABS kits tend to be less expensive than other kits due to the cost of the materials. Fiberglass or resin constructed kits are a little heavier than ABS but the smaller details are usually very sharp and look more like the kits used in Rogue One and the Mandalorian.  These types of kits that are available now also require less "modifications" to achieve the higher level of "screen accuracy." Fiberglass and resins kits are a little more pricey but some builders have found that the money they saved buying a less expensive kit, they ended up spending on modifications to achieve that higher detailed appearance.

If you want to get an idea of how much work a kit will need in terms of modifications etc, you'll need to read the Costume Reference Library or CRL for the Death Trooper and then look at each piece of a kit you are thinking about and see if the CRL details match the kit's details. For example ( I am not recommending any one supplier, only providing an example of how different kits can be from the CRL basic Level 1 and Specialist Level 2 requirements) the CRL for the helmet states that the center piece of the nose bridge has the appearance of a weathered matte black and brushed aluminum/silver surface as depicted in the reference and gallery photos. It also consists of the following:
4 to 6 small horizontal rectangular vent/ribs extending from the top of the nose bridge to approximately ¼ way down.
6 to 8 larger horizontal rectangular vent/ribs run from ⅔ towards the bottom.
7 to 9 vertical vent/ribs connect from the nose bridge to the snout.
Two vent tubes in black rubber or matte black paint are evident on either side of the face plates.

That is for basic Level 1 approval, then for Level 2 which is considered more screen accurate, the same piece must have "Nose bridge vents/ribs have in these number in order from top to bottom; 6, 8, and 9."

So when you look at the two suppliers helmets you are considering: 850 Armorworks helmets vent ribs are top to bottom; 6, 6 (maybe 7), and 9, nit picky I know, but it is the difference of having a Level 1 or Level 2 armor kit. I have seen where 850 has been upgrading their kits with resin printed/cast parts that give the smaller details the crispness that this unique armor deserves so that should be researched. The PlasticArmsDealer's helmet is screen accurate but the body armor kit still has some differences that need to be addressed to reach a Level 2 build. 

There are a few other suppliers you can research by going to the Death Trooper Parts Vendor post at the top of the Death Trooper sub forum. 

One last thing, I know there are some Death Trooper build groups on Facebook and they are a great resource of information but as with any social media platform, there are also some posts that contain misinformation. When in doubt, use the Spec Ops Forum, any information you get here I guarantee will be the most accurate, thus saving you time and money.

I know this has probably made you feel like you are taking a drink from a fire hose, but that's how it is sometimes, you just have to try and "gulp" down as much as you can and then just keep coming back until you have it all. 

One last thing, the best way to get your questions answered and have them all in one place is to start yourself a build thread way before you even purchase anything and then keep the thread updated with your progress and questions until completed. I can't emphasize that enough, it is the best way to do this, start to finish.

Best of luck with your build and reach out if you need any advice. 

 

Here are photos of the same areas of detail, side by side of 850, ASP, PAD, and the R1 screen used kit, you can see where there are indented grooves and angled lines that there are obvious differences in the edges sharpness.

 

@wook1138 used an 850 kit, he may be able to tell you what his pros and cons were.

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

[therealtotty[TX]]

9 hours ago, Chaos said:

Below is a comment I posted on another troopers thread asking the same question. Though he was asking about 850 and The Plastic Arms Dealer (PAD) and not Armory Shop Props (ASP), the comparison is pretty much the same with the PAD kit being a fiberglass resin and ASP being a 3D print reinforced with fiberglass resin.

My bad! I misunderstood the original ask. @Chaos Thank you for clarifying.

-Michael

[Chaos[CMD-DCA]]

24 minutes ago, therealtotty said:

My bad! I misunderstood the original ask. @Chaos Thank you for clarifying.

-Michael

Micheal. you answered his question as well, good feedback for him ? thank you for providing your experienced with your ASP kit, it helped confirm what others are saying.

[Christian Vasileff]

23 hours ago, Chaos said:

Micheal. you answered his question as well, good feedback for him ? thank you for providing your experienced with your ASP kit, it helped confirm what others are saying.

Thanks to all of you! This was a big help and I will take it into account. Does anyone know how long usually ASP takes to make and ship?

 

[wook1138[TX]]

22 hours ago, Christian Vasileff said:

Thanks to all of you! This was a big help and I will take it into account. Does anyone know how long usually ASP takes to make and ship?

 

I'm late to the party but I assume you have decided on ASP.  As a guy who built an 850 kit, I would look at a fiberglass or 3D printed kit next time.  The ABS pulls just don't do the costume justice.  And I found that the 850 kit had more missing details or oversight of details than I was comfortable with.  I went with ABS because that is what I was used to working with - so the learning curve was minimal for me.  I'm picky about my 3D printing, so I would be a bit wary about buying a 3D printed kit (but that is just my OCD) but it certainly captures the look of the costume much better than ABS.  You are better off with the 3D print than the ABS pull, IMO.

[wook1138[TX]]

On 9/16/2021 at 4:01 PM, lancer said:

Because their suit looks terrible.  Their abs pulls are way too soft for the detail that are required for a death trooper.  We have multiple troopers here locally who started out with an 850 kit that were unhappy with the quality and the look.  Especially once they saw someone in a proper suit.  Several have been binned and upgraded since then.

Yeah, the thought has crossed my mind.  It would be the first of my costumes I would sell.  I only wear it at events where I know I'll be the only Deathtrooper (which has been one so far - that says something).