IAT Option?

[Barons_Crown[501st]]

Hey guys. Was just weathering and doing some adjustments to IAT kit today.

 

Some of the panels I'm running into for reference show IAT guys wearing TK ammo belts. A panel has an Engineer wearing one as well. So for hits and giggles I threw a spare TK belt on as depicted in the panels.

 

I've tried wearing the belt as worn in the comic (over top of the harness directly above the Alice belt) and it actually (for me) keeps the harness straps all lined up and tight. Also adds a bit more "Star Wars" to the outfit.

 

I intend on wearing it with my rig (I need to weather the belt and ammo boxes still) but since it appears in panels I'm suggesting it be made an official "optional" accessory.

 

Appears to be standard TK abdomen ammo belt (without drop boxes) and TK white or off white colour canvas belt. In the one frame it's clearly and IAT and the belt is clearly lighter than anything else on the uniform all the way across regardless of shadow (ie it's white). This makes sense as either it was issued that way or picked up off a fallen TK? Also reminds me of Luke and Han wearing TK ammo belts while in their normal clothes in ANH, likely for the same reason.

 

In the photo with the Engineer wearing the TK belt, the IAT beside him also appears to be wearing one.

 

Just an idea. I think once it's weathered up to define the outline of the boxes better and break up the contrast it will look good. And is also rooted IN the comic.

 

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[ShovelGuy[501st]]

Do you have other panel pictures? It’s hard to say if they are Troopers or Engineers . That being said I think it’s a great idea and would definitely consider adding it to the CRL

[Barons_Crown[501st]]

The one panel clearly it's an engineer (black uni / soft hat) - with an IAT beside him apparently wearing one (has helmet, green suit).

 

In the main panel I'm relying on and posted ... it's an IAT based on colour of uniform (green) vs how sappers and engineers appear as clearly black.

There's a helmet and no backpack. So not a Sapper.

 

The colour of the belt is intentionally the same as the TK's beside him in that frame. And lighter than the rest of his uniform. I believe that is because it's a white TK belt.

 

I'll see how many more panels I can find. Just think for an "option" - not required by any means - it's a great element tying in the Star Wars universe.

 

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[Barons_Crown[501st]]

Also if you look in the back (on the right) of this panel, the two tallest heads are a TK and an Engineer. Clearly a black uniform and soft cap. So front guy IS an IAT.

 

Colour aside, no rocker patch for Sapper etc. on our front row TK belt wearing trooper. They were pretty good about drawing those on our Sapper lads.

 

So based on seeing a black uni in the background of that panel for colour contrast reference I'd be comfortable calling our front row guy an IAT.

 

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[Barons_Crown[501st]]

Even this IAT with the long gun appears to be wearing the TK style belt.

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[Barons_Crown[501st]]

Also think with the Muddie having the lower ammo belt (and Vietnam bandolier)... the FO TK having the chest harness with Ammo pouches, Luke and Han rocking these same TK ammo belts while in their own clothes in Death Star in ANH... plus with it showing up in multiple panels with IAT (and Engineer) it's not a "way out there" idea.

 

Decent add on for an option. Definitely not mandatory as I'll concede not every IAT illustrated wears one. So strictly as an approved option.

 

Also guys who are having harness trouble may find it helps keep things tight and in place harness wise... so it's an add on that will actually help some people during trooping in my opinion (how often do we ever get options that improve comfort?!? Lol)

 

I've weighted my harness significantly and that definitely helps... but nothing has helped more than having the harness straps and connectors beneath this TK belt.

 

Also there is a bit of shock value right now with the unweathered TK belt I'm wearing. It's REALLY white. Weathering it should be required to make it look a bit more at home. Or maybe a cream canvas belt.

 

 

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[RAIDER[COTG]]

I believe we discussed this in the updated IAT discussion (possibly the original as well..I'd need to go check).  @Blackwatch would have better recollection possibly.

From what I remember, the discussion was that the belt and TK options were not going to be accepted because they were not parts of the actual trooper garb...rather they were scavenged parts from survivors throughout the battle in this comic (note, I've never read the comic) and these were simply IATs using whatever gear they could find at this point.

If I could find the entire comic(s), I would love to read that for myself.

We should not point to rebel or hero options as standards for our troopers (i.e. Han or Luke...they aren't ever approvable on our end in the Legion).  That's not good practice.  Regarding the Mudtroopers, the majority DO have the second belt...I'm not sure we can safely point to them having a 2nd belt which is a norm as reasoning for why we should allow TK belts.

I'd like to see the context of the belt usage.  I'm going to see if I can find those thread discussions to see if my memory serves correct.

[Barons_Crown[501st]]

Even if it is scavenged parts... it's in wear in multiple frames. Boba Fett scavenged wookiee scalps, they weren't issued. But they are on his outfit.

Han and Luke I mentioned simply because they are examples of the TK belt being used. Naturally I know they are RL and not in our realm. But merely an example of the ammo belt being used (or yes scavenged).

I'd think it would be fairly simple to provide screen caps and say it's in wear by IATs ... for an optional accessory (not mandatory). Obviously not every IAT will have to (or want to) do the TK belt.

But a few in the comics did.

I'll plug ahead with weathering mine ... definitely adds a little something and can be referenced back to the book.

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[Barons_Crown[501st]]

Regarding the Mudtroopers, the majority DO have the second belt...I'm not sure we can safely point to them having a 2nd belt which is a norm as reasoning for why we should allow TK belts.

I think the reasoning for allowing them is far simpler. They are actually wearing them in multiple frames in the comic [emoji6].


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[RAIDER[COTG]]

Mmmmm...by scavenged I mean "not standard issue"...Boba (bounty hunter) has no "standard issue" because he's not an imperial trooper.  In terms of semantics, everything he has is scavenged so thats an apples to orange comparison.  He has the screen reference for what his costume has always been (though it changes from ESB to ROTJ in some ways) but he's not an Imperial trooper.  The context we are discussing is Imperial troopers and their gear.

Please note, I'm not opposed to the idea persay...I am just giving you the context of what was already discussed w/ previous LMOs and the CRL team when the update was made and why the the decision was made to omit the belts.  What you're addressing is not a new request/find...I actually found the CRL discussion on this in our staff area from last term...I can't link you to it unfortunately because it's in the staff area but I was actually the one who noticed the belts (and the absence of any body armor which the initial IAT CRL had) and inquired about them.

The armor was pulled from the CRL and the belt was shot down (which I initially advocated for).  The reasoning...if it's not standard trooper issue, it sets a precedent for anything picked up by any trooper at any moment (whether on screen or in comic panel) to be labeled "optional" even if that's not the intent of the costume.  Use your imagination...that precedent can lead to alot of unintended consequences on what can be considered optional (i.e. in ROTJ Vader hands Luke's lightsaber to an Imperial officer...sabers optional for officers?).  Simply being in a panel is not necessarily enough for acceptance.  Context of use of the item must be taken into account. You are more than welcome to present the case and evidence...just be aware that there is a wider perspective as to the omission.

I've contacted @toddo for his input as he worked on this w/ @izzi at the time.  @stormtrooperguy  and @Hask (our current LMO liasons) can add some perspective as well if they'd like.

[toddo[TX]]

I was LMO when the IAT was made official, so maybe I can help here.  The belt is a cool find that I don't recall being brought to my attention at the time.  That said, one of the things we must keep in mind when dealing with comic book references is that a costume can look drastically different from issue to issue or even from cover art to the inside of the pages.  Sometimes this is due to varying artists, and sometimes from frame to frame things are remarkably different even from the same artist.  What we have to look at is what the character looks like most of the time across all the references.  With the IAT, I can tell you there were quite a few references from a number of sources, and it was quite a challenge to find the consistent visual story to standardize.  I think overall the finished result is pretty good, despite a few stumbling blocks along the way.  

It's kind of like this: in ANH there are stormtroopers.  There are two CRLs for these, stunt and hero.  Both are seen throughout the film in a wide array of frames and scenes.  Now, there are other variations seen on screen including duct tape on the Tantive as well as the famous Mr. No Stripes.  Neither is in the CRL.  Instead we have to go with what we see most of the time with consistency.

I hope this perspective helps.

[Barons_Crown[501st]]

No worries guys. Appreciate the feedback.

The soft hat on a non-officer only appears in a couple panels and was granted official optional status, so it made sense to me that the TK belt clearly appearing in the same amount of frames would be as well.

I'll be trooping with the belt... aside from appearing in print it actually ties the character into the SW universe pretty well. lol instead of Mr No Stripes I can be Mr. Ammo Belt [emoji23]

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[RAIDER[COTG]]

5 hours ago, Barons_Crown said:

No worries guys. Appreciate the feedback.

The soft hat on a non-officer only appears in a couple panels and was granted official optional status, so it made sense to me that the TK belt clearly appearing in the same amount of frames would be as well.

I'll be trooping with the belt... aside from appearing in print it actually ties the character into the SW universe pretty well. lol instead of Mr No Stripes I can be Mr. Ammo Belt [emoji23]

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Correct on the hat...the issue is the context of where those items were used by the troopers (from the very beginning hence why they were allowed as optional)...again, not their appearance in panels necessarily.

@TX-15293 has provided me w/ some digital copies of these issues so I can take a look at them and make an informed decision.

As far as trooping with it...you should just make sure to clear any non-CRL items w/ your GML and CO prior to use...particularly if it's an LFL event.

 

[Barons_Crown[501st]]

 

 

 

As far as trooping with it...you should just make sure to clear any non-CRL items w/ your GML and CO prior to use...particularly if it's an LFL event.

 

 

Already done. GML felt it was a great tie in.

 

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[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Im of the same opinion:  for non LFL events if your local staff is cool with it wear it.  Theres always going to be variation. Anyone who ever served and actually WORE field gear knows this. its a conversation starter for certain.  My memory of anything before breakfast today is fuzzy at best but everything discussed from our in-house perpsective would be in the discussion topics including the guy with the weird helmet and vibrolance.