POLL: Crimson Stormtrooper/Magma Trooper Rename

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Following the release of EA Games Star Wars Battlefront, Disney's canon "Magma Troopers" were introduced.  White armor troopers with a pack and breather.  The use of Magma Troopers in this format was continued in the Disney canon comics (via Marvel Comics) in issues of Darth Vader.

The primary reference for RED CLAD stormtroopers is from Lumiya: Dark Star of the Empire published in 1995 via Topps (I've uploaded a PDF file for review) which contains one front image of red TK-style troopers.  Within the text they are never referred to as "Magma Troopers"...they are instead referred to as "Crimson-clad Stormtroopers."  The text later goes on to state that these red stormtroopers were assigned to Lumiya and selected from the Emperor's Royal Guardsmen.

The application of the term "Magma Trooper" to red TKs was initiated by Gentle Giant in 2009 when they created a statue (pre-Disney).  This reference was used primarily to build the current Magma CRL, but it appears to be misnamed by Gentle Giant (the "legend" is that they saw a red stormtrooper at an event, liked the costume and created the statue...naming it themselves).

In 2015, Hasbro (at this point under license by Disney) appeared to correct the naming of the red Stormtrooper when releasing their Black Series 4-pack which included the "Crimson Stormtrooper" (this has been added to our references thread) which calls back to the original 1995 reference.  This no longer conflicted w/ the Disney canon Magma Trooper which does not use red armor whatsoever.

The proposal here is to correct the naming of our Spec Ops version to "Crimson Stormtrooper."  It is possible to add it as an alternate name (which I will add as a voting option), but the preference would be to correct the name altogether based on the original 1995 reference and the current Disney canon (disregarding the misnaming by Gentle Giant) to avoid confusion and conflict with the Disney-canon white armor Magma Trooper currently hosted by MEPD.

The name change (if accepted) would be put into effect with the CRL proposal update when processed.  I do understand that some may have attachment to the old name, but CRLs are ever-evolving documents...never meant to be static...based on references available.  Feedback and input is welcome.  THANKS!!!

Link to red Stormtrooper references here: https://forum.specops501st.com/index.php?/topic/10-magma-trooper-reference-pictures/

Link to CRL text update proposal here: https://forum.specops501st.com/index.php?/topic/7111-proposed-crl-modification-magma-trooper/

 

IMPORTANT EDIT: Poll will run for slightly more than 1 month and will close on Jan. 12, 2020.  At that time, we should be ready to process the text/picture update for publishing.

 

 

Star Wars RPG (D6) - Novel - Lumiya, Dark Star of the Empire.pdf

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Tagging LMOs @stormtrooperguy @ionicdesign @Hask

Tagging XO and Detachment Costume Advisors @nanotek @Blackwatch @IcyTrooper @NINJAM0VE @rickyboyblue @furiosa @ShovelGuy @Tarrif

Tagging current CRL model @Krazytrooper

[Rat[501st]]

Could I offer a third option of Royal Crimson Stormtrooper? If they are pulled from royal guards just seems fitting.

[Tarrif[TX]]

11 minutes ago, Rat said:

Could I offer a third option of Royal Crimson Stormtrooper? If they are pulled from royal guards just seems fitting.

I think it would be either Crimson Trooper or Emperor's Royal Guard Trooper since (in Legends) that's the name of the armor the Imperial Department of Military Research (IDMR) produced and supplied to this unit, but not necessarily the name of the troopers who wear that armor. The IDMR was responsible for creating things like the Death Star, etc. In the new Disney canon it's called the Imperial Department of Advanced Weapons Research  (IDAWR) and they created the Death Troopers and the special armor they wear, so I think this is fitting for Spec Ops because of the similarities. The Black Series figures describe them as Crimson Troopers, and for me that's the tie breaker.

Unfortunately a lot of things are different between Legends and Canon now, and the Royal Guard (and Shadow Guard) have their own armored variants. 

[Rat[501st]]

3 minutes ago, Tarrif said:

I think it would be either Crimson Trooper or Emperor's Royal Guard Trooper since (in Legends) that's the name of the armor the Imperial Department of Military Research (IDMR) produced and supplied to this unit, but not necessarily the name of the troopers who wear that armor. The IDMR was responsible for creating things like the Death Star, etc. In the new Disney canon it's called the Imperial Department of Advanced Weapons Research  (IDAWR) and they created the Death Troopers and the special armor they wear, so I think this is fitting for Spec Ops because of the similarities. The Black Series figures describe them as Crimson Troopers, and for me that's the tie breaker.

Unfortunately a lot of things are different between Legends and Canon now, and the Royal Guard (and Shadow Guard) have their own armored variants. 

I see what you mean. I'm sort of the new guy here for this costume and not yet a detachment member, but I believe I may be the first for the changes being proposed.

[ionicdesign[LMO]]

Or a third option to not rename the original but have the two variations. The original "Death" trooper are still a thing even though a new one has been made now as well. 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

5 minutes ago, ionicdesign said:

Or a third option to not rename the original but have the two variations. The original "Death" trooper are still a thing even though a new one has been made now as well. 

Indeed.  That sounds more like option 2 though.  We wont be creating a separate CRL  If option 2 wins out we will do tabs.  Option 1...one CRL.

 

Just to clarify, the differentiation between other CRLs would be a byproduct of the name change (added bonus), not the driving factor.  The main reason is, “Magma Trooper” isnt what the original reference refers to them as...the Hasbro while not the primary reference, is more aligned with that original reference.

[ionicdesign[LMO]]

3 minutes ago, Raider said:

Indeed.  That sounds more like option 2 though.  We wont be creating a separate CRL  If option 2 wins out we will do tabs.  Option 1...one CRL.

 

Just to clarify, the differentiation between other CRLs would be a byproduct of the name change (added bonus), not the driving factor.  The main reason is, “Magma Trooper” isnt what the original reference refers to them as...the Hasbro while not the primary reference, is more aligned with that original reference.

Ah thanks for clarifying. Tabs with the two types and things different noted as tabs, got it.

 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

personally Ive never been a fan of the name magma trooper.  Crimson I can go for.  For me the added bonus would be the removing any conflict with MEPD's deployed Magma trooper.      I didnt know that they had this. 

https://databank.501st.com/databank/Costuming:TD_Magma_Trooper_-_Battlefront

[Hask[501st]]

What about crimson Guard Trooper?

[RAIDER[COTG]]

8 hours ago, Hask said:

What about crimson Guard Trooper?

Its a sexy name for sure.  My only issue is that its not one on any of the 3 references (and so would be a name of our own making which is essentially how the mis-naming of Magma Trooper began)...hence the 2 listed options.

[NINJAM0VE[TX]]

I have the magma trooper battlefront version costume.

Personally, i would prefer to retain the magma trooper for the red version but if its gonna be renamed, im okay with Crimson Stormtrooper.

[Rat[501st]]

So will we be seeing the results for this soon?

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

On 2/8/2020 at 3:39 PM, Rat said:

So will we be seeing the results for this soon?

The results above will be reflective of the direction the CRL is going to go with the poll having closed on 01/12/2020.

Since @Raider has another term we are going to start shifting this into modification and the CRL updates again (amongst many others).

[Rat[501st]]

I figured as much @IcyTrooper

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Technically we are way past the closing point on this but giving it a final bump for final opinions.  CRL model pics are being finalized and prepped.  Should be sending this off for publishing soon.

[cms1172[TX]]

Can't wait for the results.

Will all currently enlisted magma troopers be grandfathered in with any changes?

[RAIDER[COTG]]

15 minutes ago, cms1172 said:

Can't wait for the results.

Will all currently enlisted magma troopers be grandfathered in with any changes?

As with all CRL updates, previously approved troopers maintain membership and are not required to update their costume.

[ionicdesign[LMO]]

12 hours ago, Raider said:

As with all CRL updates, previously approved troopers maintain membership and are not required to update their costume.

Exactly.

If they see fit to make upgrades, more power to them, but in lieu of that they are grandfathered in.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Making note here for those following, model has submitted photos for the update and they are in review.  Update and final decision on rename (which will be discussed with LMOs) should not be far off.

[ThomasDurbin[TX]]

I advocate for dropping "Magma" and leaving the old CRL with the title and name Lumiya's Royal Guard Stormtrooper for our original Red armor that was based on the canon comic with Lumiya.  The various versions of Red armor do differ noticeably just as versions of White armor vary noticeably and have many distinct CRLs and names. 
For the new versions of Red armor, whichever name is associated with each canon reference for each new edition of armor should be used when possible.  Crimson is probably the right choice for most of the newer sets I've seen if they are to be lumped together.      

Be well.  Happy Holidays. 

#LiveSmart #BeTheChange #Peace  

[nanotek[CMD-DWM]]

4 hours ago, ThomasDurbin said:

I advocate for dropping "Magma" and leaving the old CRL with the title and name Lumiya's Royal Guard Stormtrooper for our original Red armor that was based on the canon comic with Lumiya.  The various versions of Red armor do differ noticeably just as versions of White armor vary noticeably and have many distinct CRLs and names. 
For the new versions of Red armor, whichever name is associated with each canon reference for each new edition of armor should be used when possible.  Crimson is probably the right choice for most of the newer sets I've seen if they are to be lumped together.      

Be well.  Happy Holidays. 

#LiveSmart #BeTheChange #Peace  

Lumiya has been relegated to Legends I think and the guards you are referring to would be these guys? https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Emperor's_Royal_Guard_stormtrooper_armor

For reference Lumiya's guards is in the description for the Crimson Trooper.