PROPOSED CRL MODIFICATION: Inferno Squad Del Meeko

[MahXPrime[501st]]

32 minutes ago, Raider said:

Awesome @areilly!!!  Thanks!  Are you ok with the range for Level 1...Level 2 2.15” or 2.25” @MahXPrime?  We can still keep the added wording about scaling for some wiggle room

I fully agree ! Keep that scaling wording indeed as it's what set a value between 2.15 & 2.25

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

OK Im about to go start reworking the verbiage. I will work in the first post so we can all see the changes there.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

@Blackwatch can you direct me to which post you are editing from please?

I would like to review what we have for the helmet before we move forward. Additionally, I would like the Balaclava moved to required when the helmet is worn.  Currently, as it is listed as optional, I have had to field a few GML questions regarding applicants who submit with bucket on but no balaclava.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

@Raider  first page about halfway down the page, Log change 1 (in orange).  The original Change 0 is beneath it for comparison. 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Change Log 1 changes in ORANGE 

Helmet

 The Inferno Squad helmet is modeled after the 3d model specific to Battlefront II game. 

The Rogue One TIE Pilot style helmet is allowed for Basic Approval when requirements outlined below are incorporated. 

Original Trilogy TIE Pilot style helmets are not permitted

Lenses are bubble or flat, are red in color, and must be sufficiently dark enough to obscure the costumer's eyes. Translucent or mirrored red lenses are acceptable.

The front trident area is shorter than a traditional pilot helmet.

There is a rectangular indentation on top of the mohawk above the trident.

There is one retaining clip greeblie in the left side trident indentation. A Nissan retaining clip is most accurate.

The top of the mohawk outside of the raised triangle is painted a dark gun metal color down to   the inside edge of the helmet opening.

There is a pill box just above the back bottom edge of the mohawk. The pill box is the same   black color as the helmet and does not need to be functional.

Spaces between the teeth are cut out and backed with a dark gray or silver mesh material.

The teeth and vocoder are painted flat black.

Oxygen mask connectors are molded into the helmet just in front of the ear caps above the   cheek tubes on both sides of the helmet.

There are Imperial disc greeblies without notches on each ear cap.

There are two painted or decal logos on the forehead of the helmet. The Inferno Squad logo on  the right side and an Imperial cog on the left side

Logo and Cog are equivalent in size, and shall be between 2.15" (54.6mm) and 2.75" (69.8 mm) for approval. 

There is a red painted or red decal area on the ram’s horn on the right side of the helmet.

There is a red painted or red decal area on the right cheek tube.

There are molded greeblies painted silver inside the hose ports that cover the openings. 

Helmet may contain lightly done silver weathering but is not required. 

 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Helmet is strictly made from the game's 3d model and correctly sized/scaled to the wearer.  

Hose connectors are made from machined aluminum.

Imperial Cog and Inferno Squad logo will be 2.15" (54.6mm)

 Lenses are backed with round-holed mesh/screen.

 The pill box is functional.

 Lenses are bubble.

 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Ok @Blackwatch here are some (I think final) edits to the helmet descrip...

1) Helmet is a specific 3D model to Inferno Squad from Battlefront II.

The Rogue One TIE Pilot helmet is allowed for basic approval...

 Original Trilogy TIE Pilot helmets are not permitted.

Trying to abbreviate the opening sentence...yet differentiate the 3 types of helmets...what is accurate, what is allowed, what is not.  Does this work you think?

2) Level 1 logo range...

Should we keep 2.75 as allowable?  So a range like 2.15" - 2.75" for Level 1?

Then specify Level 2 as a much smaller range...2.15" - 2.25"  Can use verbiage of "approx." and "scaled to wearer"

[RAIDER[COTG]]

@Blackwatch before moving on flightsuit...please also move balaclava into required beneath the helmet section.  If we need to add a line clarifying it has to be worn when the helmet is on, that's fine.  I don't like it the optional as worded...several apps where people use bucket w/out it and the back of their head is showing.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Helmet section is finalized.  

I have started a new topic here for final text reviews. 

The Balaclava needs to be next since it will be required when the helmet is worn. 

 

Balaclava

A balaclava is a black head sock/hood that is worn under the helmet and is used primarily to hide any view of the wearer's skin and/or facial hair. 

A balaclava must be worn when the helmet is worn

 

 

 

 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

The next section to discuss is the Flightuit. 

I have edited the original post to be more in line with discussion. 

Discussion Change Log 0 (no changes to original post other than remove reference numbers. 

Flight suit

• - One-piece flight suit is made out of Nomex, rip-stop nylon + canvas (thick material matching references) or similar material.
• - The front zipper is covered by a 2-inch-wide piece of leather or leather-like material with vertical lines that attaches with Velcro over the zipper.
• - Approximately 1.5" (38.1mm) tall mandarin collar with a chevron shaped, left-over-right Velcro closure.
• A 2.5-inch red embroidered or PVC Inferno Squad emblem, on a black background, is present on both shoulders.
• - The shoulders of the suit are slightly padded.
• - On the left forearm there is a compad pocket. Size might vary to match specific compad. +compad pocket spot is high enough on the forearm so the glove can't hide the compad
• - On the left bicep, below the cog emblem, there is a code cylinder pocket with no flap, and vertical stitching dividing it into pen sleeves.
• - There is a piece of nylon strapping sewn below the pen sleeve openings and is the same length as the top of the pocket.
• - The bottom front corner of the pocket is cut off at a bevel on the side pointing in view direction, with the broader upside forming the border of the pen sleeves.
• - The right sleeve has a cargo pocket below the cog emblem.
• - The pocket has a chevron flap.
• - There are two large chest pockets and two large front pockets with no zippers or flaps are present below the belt.
• - There are two leg pockets with chevron flaps, similar in proportion as the right arm sleeve pocket, are present.
• - There are no leg pockets below the knees.
• - There are two red stripes that run up the right side of the flight suit. The first begins at the bottom of the right leg and continues up to the right armpit. The second begins at the right wrist and stops at the bottom of the arm pocket. The stripe then continues above the arm pocket, behind the patch emblem to the shoulder seam.
• - There are two black stripes that run up the left side of the flight suit. The first begins at the bottom of the left leg and continues up to the left armpit. The second begins at the left wrist and stops at the bottom of the compad pocket. The stripe then continues above the compad pocket up to the bottom edge of the pen sleeves then continues above the pen sleeves, behind the patch emblem to the shoulder seam.
• - There are two black stripes that run up the left side of the flight suit. The first begins at the bottom of the left leg and continues up to the left armpit. The second begins at the left wrist and stops at the bottom of the compad pocket. The stripe then continues above the compad pocket up to the bottom edge of the pen sleeves then continues above the pen sleeves, behind the patch emblem and up over the shoulder ending at the bottom of the collar.
• - A piece of leather or leather-like material is sewn below the pen sleeve openings and is the same length as the top of the pocket. 
  
  OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
  
  + Patches are EMBROIDERED
  + Textured Rip stop / canvas are most accurate as they are hard duty /thick materials with a "solid" structure, "loose" / soft / light material are not accurate.

[MahXPrime[501st]]

Ok concerning this the 1st thing I'll say is :

MEA CULPA.

The "EMBROIDERED" level 2 is indeed wrong.

HD Proof here :



Vinyl it is

This image provides also a clear information concerning the fabric used  ! Canvas similar to MP40 pouches actually

Again, it may be to spare ressources that they've used the same texture but either IG screens or this screen lead us to canvas like / "thick" material

[areilly]

here's the best image I've got of the patch.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

1 hour ago, areilly said:

here's the best image I've got of the patch.

That almost looks to be the same material as the flightsuit no?

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

9 hours ago, Raider said:

That almost looks to be the same material as the flightsuit no?

Looked like the thread was more tight on it but when I compare it to the pocket flap it does indeed look like textile.

[areilly]

Looking at the in-game textures, it looks like they did use a different texture, looks a little bit like a twill. But it's a difference that I'm not sure anyone would notice except in these high-res renders. Seems like any normal cloth/textile backing would be pretty close.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

4 hours ago, areilly said:

Looking at the in-game textures, it looks like they did use a different texture, looks a little bit like a twill. But it's a difference that I'm not sure anyone would notice except in these high-res renders. Seems like any normal cloth/textile backing would be pretty close.

Twill, that was the word I was looking for. I couldn't even think of it.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Thanks @areilly

So the first 2 things I'd like to nail down...

1) Flightsuit fabric/weave.  Spec Ops current CRL states "NOMEX ripstop nylon or similar" for Level 1 (no Level 2).  JRS states "NOMEX ripstop nylon or similar or Oxford weave canvas" for Level 1 (Level 2 Oxford weave canvas only).  It does appear we have a canvas-type material (not ripstop) for the flightsuit. I'm not a professional on fabrics...is this an Oxford weave?

What we need to settle on is what will be allowed going forward for Level 1 and what we would like to relegate to Level 2.

2) Patch.  Both detachments state "embroidered or PVC vinyl.  It does not appear to fully be either.  What I see is a textile patch (like a backing) but there is no embroidery on it.  The logo itself appears to be a vinyl (marine vinyl) type of material.  The patch itself is borderless. (no embroidered edge).  Is this type of patch available in any way in the "real world?"

Again...what will be allowed at Level 1 and what would be the Level 2 standard?

[areilly]

fabric:

The most generic description I can think of is some combination of “plain weave” “canvas” and/or “oxford". “Plain weave” seems to be the most generic description.

Some references to Oxford include a basketweave for shirts, but it seems close enough as well.

it’s definitely not ripstop nylon, and Nomex seems like an oddly specific choice, it’s a brand of fiber and not really a fabric type. I suppose you could spring for black Nomex cloth if you wanted a genuinely fireproof flightsuit for bragging rights.

The Rogue One TIE suits are nylon, I’m guessing that’s why JRS mentioned nylon since these are the post-R1 era of designs.

The regular TIE CRL just says black, and doesn't even mention a fabric type.

patches:

I have seem a couple 100% PVC patches, the rest are all typical embroidered patches, I haven’t seen anyone making a cloth backed and PVC patch.

Thinking about how I’d make one myself, I was considering a cloth backing, then using a stencil to paint on a thick layer of some kind of flexible fabric or leather paint. Alternatively, cutting up vinyl/PVC pieces and gluing it to a cloth backing. My guess is that making it a level 2 requirement would mean a handmade patch.

[TX-20113[501st]]

I totally agree that the lvl 2 patches should be made of vinyl on fabric. And, yes, the webbi g of the of the patch is definitely different to the suit's fabric. 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

years ago VooDoo and I made the first vinyl patches that WampaWear now sells with his suits.  Heat press vinyl cogs affixed directly to the fabric.   

Since this IS vinyl on fabric, would that be an allowable option, as long as the orientation of the twill backing is vertical?  It will clearly and visibly look different when worn, just as we see in the hi res images here. 

No, this is not RIpstop, ive worn ripstop since 1984 and I have no idea why that was in the original text.  We locally use Harbor Frieight brand canvas drop cloths for making Jedi tunics. When washed, you get a nice, soft, structured fabric that has this pebbly-ish texture. 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Ok so to move this along...

Removing ripstop nylon Nomex verbiage.

Canvas (of some sort) will be the only accepted material?

Level 2 patch will need to be vinyl w a fabric backing.

Still allow embroidered and pvc at level 1?

 

Lastly, compad/pocket orientation.  Maybe reword that part a bit, but in essence compad needs to be fully visible correct @MahXPrime?  Is this Level 1 or 2?

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

CHANGE LOG 1 .1 

Removals in red strikethrough

Additions in dark orange

Flight suit

• - One-piece flight suit is made out of Nomex, rip-stop nylon + canvas or similar heavy material.
• - The front zipper is covered by a 2-inch-wide piece of leather or leather-like material with vertical lines that attaches with Velcro over the zipper.
• - Approximately 1.5" (38.1mm) tall mandarin collar with a chevron shaped, left-over-right Velcro closure.
• A 2.5-inch red embroidered or PVC Inferno Squad emblem, on a black background, is present on both shoulders.
• - The shoulders of the suit are slightly padded.
• - On the left forearm there is a compad pocket. Size might vary to match specific compad. +compad pocket spot is high enough on the forearm so the glove can't hide the compad 
• *New Text* There is a commpad pocket that properly fits the commpad size, placed above the glove so that the pocket is not hidden.
• - On the left bicep, below the cog emblem, there is a code cylinder pocket with no flap, and vertical stitching dividing it into pen sleeves.
• - There is a piece of nylon strapping sewn below the pen sleeve openings and is the same length as the top of the pocket.
• - The bottom front corner of the pocket is cut off at a bevel on the side pointing in view direction, with the broader upside forming the border of the pen sleeves.
• - The right sleeve has a cargo pocket below the cog emblem.
• - The pocket has a chevron flap.
• - There are two large chest pockets and two large front pockets with no zippers or flaps are present below the belt.
• - There are two leg pockets with chevron flaps, similar in proportion as the right arm sleeve pocket, are present.
• - There are no leg pockets below the knees.
• - There are two red stripes that run up the right side of the flight suit. The first begins at the bottom of the right leg and continues up to the right armpit. The second begins at the right wrist and stops at the bottom of the arm pocket. The stripe then continues above the arm pocket, behind the patch emblem to the shoulder seam.
• - There are two black stripes that run up the left side of the flight suit. The first begins at the bottom of the left leg and continues up to the left armpit. The second begins at the left wrist and stops at the bottom of the compad pocket. The stripe then continues above the compad pocket up to the bottom edge of the pen sleeves then continues above the pen sleeves, behind the patch emblem to the shoulder seam.
• - There are two black stripes that run up the left side of the flight suit. The first begins at the bottom of the left leg and continues up to the left armpit. The second begins at the left wrist and stops at the bottom of the compad pocket. The stripe then continues above the compad pocket up to the bottom edge of the pen sleeves then continues above the pen sleeves, behind the patch emblem and up over the shoulder ending at the bottom of the collar.
• - A piece of leather or leather-like material is sewn below the pen sleeve openings and is the same length as the top of the pocket. 
  
  OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
•  
• + Patches are EMBROIDERED   vinyl on textile with no edge border. If twill is used for the patch material the fabric texture will be vertically oriented. 
  + Textured Rip stop / canvas is most accurate as it is a thick materials with a "solid" structure ; "loose" / soft / light material is not accurate.

[MahXPrime[501st]]

On 1/13/2020 at 5:29 PM, Raider said:

 

 

Lastly, compad/pocket orientation.  Maybe reword that part a bit, but in essence compad needs to be fully visible correct @MahXPrime?  Is this Level 1 or 2?

Fully visible indeed ! We can put this in level 1 directly.. I don't think it's hard for the one who's making flightsuits to sew the pocket on the correct spot directly

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

i updated the block of text above. 

 

 

[MahXPrime[501st]]

Alright, I think we've all agreed on this version of the Flight Suit, I guess the only thing that could still be updated here is the wording ? If anyone see anything to improve, suggestions welcomed

We can probably move on the next part very very soon  

[RAIDER[COTG]]

@Blackwatch Is the orange compad text replacing the green there?

@MahXPrime Shall we add a line that there are no code cylinders in the pockets in Level 1 or in Level 2?

@TX-20113 can post a reference pic here confirming