Proposal for updates to the Army Engineer

[ShovelGuy[501st]]

1. Addition of the TK belt as a possible accessory.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Im for it. 

My reasoning is that is not an aberration, or a mistake, as it is seen in two panels. 

This would fall into the Optional Accessories with the goggles and E-11.   I have not seen evidence of a thermal detonator, just the belt and drop boxes.  My concern is that the TK belt is only seen, and not the rest of the harness and belt rig.  We could make two versions since we now have tabs added to the gallery, standard harness, and belt/ drops only version.  

 

Copied from the current ANH Stunt CRL:

Belt

• Belt face is made of plastic (TK ammo belt).
• The soft belt proper is made of canvas, or material with a canvas covering. Size must be 2.75” (70 mm) to 3.25”(83 mm) wide and not wider than the plastic portion of the belt. The color is be white to off-white.
• The drop boxes dangle from the sides of the front plastic belt (ammo belt) via white straps and are aligned under the plastic tabs of the ammo belt.

 

[ShovelGuy[501st]]

I suppose it could be worn instead of the web belt and harness. 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

With tabs we can make two galleries.  I dont have a TK belt, not really into making this mod for my  Sapper/engineer--would you be willing to take it on?  We will need a CRL model for the tabbed gallery. 

[ShovelGuy[501st]]

@Blackwatch I’ll look into getting a TK belt soon . 

[14166[TX]]

On 2/10/2020 at 8:18 PM, Blackwatch said:

With tabs we can make two galleries.  I dont have a TK belt, not really into making this mod for my  Sapper/engineer--would you be willing to take it on?  We will need a CRL model for the tabbed gallery. 

If its a white TK Belt I can do it.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Matt its the tk belt that does not have the square covers, and its dirty. 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

in addition to the belts, we are considering changes to the boots to be more consistent with the short boot images of the art.  There are short boots out there, available, and even a cheap pair of round toe motorcycle boots could be cut down to give this appearance. 

 

Current text in white, 

proposed removals in red strikethrough

proposed addititions/ changes in Emerald

Boots Calf High       Below the Calf black leather or leather like material. Jackboot style is acceptable, see gallery. Free of laces, decorative stitching, buckles on the instep or any other embellishments. Boots may have a single adjustment strap at the top outside of the boot, with the buckle no wider than 1". This need not be functional. Zippers on the inside of the boot are acceptable, so long as they are concealed. If the zipper is not covered by vinyl/ leather, it is painted black.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Free of laces, decorative sticking, buckles on the instep or any other embellishments. Zippers on the inside of the boots are acceptable, so long as they are concealed. Pants legs shall be tucked into boots and fluffed to give appearance of original source art. weathering of boots is encouraged.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Boot description seems good.  This guy on the right is an engineer?  We need to include this helmet (not that one exists in real world yet)?

 

Sidenote...this guy was included in the "Trooper" references but has the same helmet as the trooper on the right and a different collar and tunic it seems than what we have established as a standard Army Trooper.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

at the time of the discussion originally we decided not to.   Officer tunic and different details It looks like a poorly drawn helmet with different details than the sapper. 

if people want a helmet with the black, they can build the sapper. 

[14166[TX]]

On 2/21/2020 at 5:30 PM, Blackwatch said:

Matt its the tk belt that does not have the square covers, and its dirty. 

I can use the rocket trooper belt for it. 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

18 hours ago, 14166 said:

I can use the rocket trooper belt for it. 

Wanna get your girlfriend to take a few shots of you showing how it would look? ?

[ShovelGuy[501st]]

On 2/21/2020 at 11:01 PM, Raider said:

Boot description seems good.  This guy on the right is an engineer?  We need to include this helmet (not that one exists in real world yet)?

 

Sidenote...this guy was included in the "Trooper" references but has the same helmet as the trooper on the right and a different collar and tunic it seems than what we have established as a standard Army Trooper.

The helmet looks like a mix of the sapper helmet  and navy trooper helmet . It’s sorta shaped like an Imperial Army helmet but with a more flared back and cut different on the skirt . I’ve got no clue on the circular things on the outside . 

[14166[TX]]

On 2/26/2020 at 8:54 AM, Raider said:

Wanna get your girlfriend to take a few shots of you showing how it would look? ?

Funny, I told her about this one and she rather do this then the Rocket Trooper. lol

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Just copying this thought over here from the Army Trooper as well so it's posted here...

Alright then...so shorter boot is now mandatory...still black.

Any TK belt allowed as optional for Level 1.  Specifically must not have buttons (ROTJ TK style) for Level 2 (though ANH sized drop down boxes are required...not ROTJ).  Am I overthinking it?

With the LMOs ratified...we simply need to finalize these bits and then get pictures.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Ok everybody Im back on the job again and Im woking 16 hour shifts, so that's just killing any hint of free time.   That helmet issome aberration that the artist made up.  We don't have a maker/ helmet for it to be included in the CRL, unless we get someone to make this thing and we do not have a rear view of it so we don't know what it looks like. 

 

Moving on:

Change Log 1.1

Boots Below the calf black leather or leather like material. Free of laces, decorative stitching, buckles on the instep or any other embellishments. Zippers on the inside of the boot are acceptable, so long as they are concealed. If the zipper is not covered by vinyl/ leather, it is painted black.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Pants legs shall be tucked into boots and fluffed to give appearance of original source art. Weathering of boots is encouraged.

TK Ammo Belt

Belt face is made of white plastic (TK ammo belt). 

The soft belt proper is made of canvas, or material with a canvas covering. Size must be 2.75” (70 mm) to 3.25”(83 mm) wide and not wider than the plastic portion of the belt. The color is be white to off-white.

The drop boxes dangle from the sides of the front plastic belt (ammo belt) via white straps and are aligned under the plastic tabs of the ammo belt.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

ROTJ style TK ammo belt.  

No buttons are present on belt.

Drop boxes shall be ANH Stormtrooper size, not ROTJ stormtrooper size. 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Quick update on this.   Currently at CL  1.1 .  We should have all input in by now.  

[Saifai[TX]]

I think you should consider, that the boots should be not to hard to get. These should be common boots. The example you showed is sold out and are no military boots anyway. I think using such a style of boots would loose a bit of the military look.

the crl model should use the new boots (if there is an update), too. Otherwise this would be confusing.

[Saifai[TX]]

Maybe you should use black tk boots

i found similar boots which look really good. More bulky than tk boots. But also hard to find.

maybe black tk boots are best option because they are already used for Star Wars costumes and have the needed size.

 

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

21 minutes ago, Saifai said:

I think you should consider, that the boots should be not to hard to get. These should be common boots. The example you showed is sold out and are no military boots anyway. I think using such a style of boots would loose a bit of the military look.

the crl model should use the new boots (if there is an update), too. Otherwise this would be confusing.

What do you mean by the CRL model should wear new boots? He has Jack boot style boots on which are called for in the text. Unless I'm missing something?

10 minutes ago, Saifai said:

Maybe you should use black tk boots

i found similar boots which look really good. More bulky than tk boots. But also hard to find.

maybe black tk boots are best option because they are already used for Star Wars costumes and have the needed size.

 

The boots we selected to match the comic reference and allow for easier ability to find the boots. There are a few sources that are currently selling those style boots. One that comes to mind that I have personally used is Imperial Boots. Searching on Google 501st Jack boots yielded many results.

If we were to suggest an alternate style boots there'd have to be the reference to prove it. @Blackwatch, you agree?

[Saifai[TX]]

I thought you want to change the CRL from jack boots to different style boots?

[RAIDER[COTG]]

8 minutes ago, Saifai said:

I thought you want to change the CRL from jack boots to different style boots?

The CRL update discussed here hasnt been published yet.  When it is published, new photos will be done as needed...but till then, whats in the CRL now is what is allowed.

[Saifai[TX]]

14 minutes ago, Raider said:

The CRL update discussed here hasnt been published yet.  When it is published, new photos will be done as needed...but till then, whats in the CRL now is what is allowed.

Of course. But people need time to build a costume. And during that time they could have ordered boots that are not allowed anymore when they submit the costume. 

btw the boots i posted was just a suggestion if there is a crl chance.

I saw that in an other crl there are already other boots but jack boots are acceptable, too. Maybe that is the way here, too.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

The boots were heavily discussed by the CRL teams when the costumes were developed. It was allowed to use jackboots at first. The jackboots originally allowed just do not match the references, so when the commuter boot was discovered, it became the "go to" reference for Level 2. 

The TK style chealsea boots you propose do not match any visual reference.  Keep in mind, that not only does the Detachment create the CRL, but the LMO and his Deputies must concur with our findings, and agree that what we reference and source, matches the art. I own a brown pair of Chelseas, and they do not cover my anke, so they are far too short to meet the 8-9 inches we would prefer, which is being written into the Imperial Army Trooper.  This is the Engineer discussion, so it will be more relaxed. 

This classic engineer boot should easily be approvable for L1 if you cut the straps off and cut part of the shaft down to around 9" or so depending on individual calf height.  This plain, round toe motorcycle boot that been in use by Legion members for over 25 years. Those of us with monster feet *like me* simply do not fit jackboots, they just don't come that size, must less width, and I've wasted over $1000 on custom made mail order boots that did not fit when they arrived.  

Classic black engineer boot

The proposed text only states "short black boot below the calf".  honestly, Id get the cheapest pair of jackboots or plain round toe engineer boots you can find at a thrift store, and cut them down to 8".  Ive done it with other boots, using boots from cheap shoe stores. L2 , and Specialist approval should by its nature require the commuter, or similar and I still find those on Ebay even in my monstr foot size. I own two pair, once black and one green. 

[Saifai[TX]]

Ok.

i just saw that the boots for the engineer with the quick release belt has higher boots.

but it seems that the engineer with the tk belt is wearing shorter boots like tk boots.