as indicated previously, Im trying to figure out the boots situation

[GeorgiosHD]

Ill intially apologize for any commentary below that may seem offensive or attacking in nature, im a person on the autism spectrum and im very black and white so this stuff drives me insane.

 

After talking to crow props and discovering that it will cost in or around 340$ Canadian for their boots and talking to imperial boots and the largest size they make is size 11.

It seems frankly impossible for me to acquire a pair of usable boots. Also, The Jered and Talib boots are no longer manufactured. Period, as in they cannot be purchased at all. Save from a lucky buy or sell on marketplace or on ebay for an obscene price, usually around 500$ Canadian.

I went to my local doc martens store today and took a look at their Cairo boots with the panels attached. As far as looking the part it seems that they do in fact look how they are supposed too as far as the wording is indicated on the CRL.

Basically, what im saying is that the standard that is trying to be upheld here is rather ridiculous, and the fact that one or two trusted vendors will sell these boots at outrageously overpriced rates is ridiculous as well, even woith covid causing an increase in the overall cost of goods, the price of some of these boots is rather obscene, as thecrowprops boots will sell for more than the actual doc martens boots ever retailed for including inflation.

 

 

As well, this is directly ripped from the Crl page: basically indicating that the cairo boots meet the basic requirements. Also, the boots in the photo are glossy black not matte black, so technically, these boots are more true to form according to the wording.

Boots are made from matte black leather or leather-like material with a capped toe and seams as seen in the photo. The sole shall have no heel. The boots extend under the shins. All fastenings/laces are hidden behind a rectangular panel made of smooth rubber or a shiny black material with approximately 1/4" (6mm) wide horizontal ribs. The side edges of the panel shall be turned back on themselves to form a smooth rib-less border. The rectangular panel extends from under the shin.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Original Dr Martens “Jered” shoes or replicas with a leather pull tab midway on the heel. The rectangular panels shall not be wider than the width of the top of the shoe and will lay as flat as possible against the shoe with the front edge not extending past the upper and sole seam.

[Chaos[CMD-DCA]]

@GeorgiosHD

George,

I will try and help you out with this.

The 501st states in it's Charter Article II states "The 501st Legion is an international costuming organization dedicated to celebrating STAR WARS™ through the creation and use of quality costumes that portray the villainous, morally ambiguous, or non-partisan characters from the STAR WARS™ universe.

The 501st strives to maintain a standard of appearance in its costumes that reflects the screen or other source appearance of each character/costume. It accomplishes this by the CRLs. If this was not done, the we would have members wearing all sorts of cheap copy cat costumes, some of which look like crap. This contradictory with the  Legion's Mission Statement above. 

With that being said, you will find that almost all of the costumes within the Legion at some point had a scarcity issue with finding or obtaining parts. It just so happens with the DT that the boots used in R1 and The Mandalorian are no longer in production. Every once in a while you will find them for sale on a website, but that is not a guaranteed event and are few and far between. In that case as with many 501st Costumes there have been makers who have stepped up to fill the void in filling the need to supply scarce pieces and parts. Imperial Boots and Crow Props have done this for the boots. It just so happens that Crop Props saw that Imperial Boots was not making the larger sizes so Gio stepped up and included the larger sized boots in his production. Unfortunately in a world of supply and demand, the cost of such items is usually based on the maker's expenses to produce the item and then be able to make a profit. It is what it is and I am sure that if there were more providers of the DT Boot that the cost would come down based upon competition between the makers.

I was the primary staff member who worked on the DT CRL's recent update, we made a few compensations for some items and reduced the strictness of the CRL requirement and we also created stricter requirements on some of the items as well to balance out Basic Approval Level 1 and the more screen accurate Level 2 requirements.

We knew that the Jared boots were no longer in production and then next closest boot, the Talib, was also not in production. The two makers who did provide a comparable boot designed their boots to meet the CRL and screen used boot appearance. Since there were two sources, and still pairs of the Jared and Talib boots being bought and sold on various websites we decided to keep the CRL requirement. The boots for the DT are very distinctive and visible in many screens, thus the standard of the CRL  must be upheld.

To answer your question about the Cairo boot and if it meets the level 1 basic approval CRL requirement. The boots as they are from Doc Martens is No.

The toes of the boot are rounded and the lace seam stitching gives the appearance of a "D" and basically considered a "cap toe" so that is OK

The leather stitching and seams of the heel panels are like the CRL boot or the alternate listed "Talib" so that is OK

The Boot is a matte black leather (the CRL boot is considered a Matte black as it does not have a high gloss polished look or "patented leather" look) so that is OK

The sole  has no heal and is flat like the CRL so that is OK

The side edges of the sole are not exact to the CRL boot, but the CRL does not say it has to be, however, the seam stitching is yellow. If you dye/color the yellow stitching then the sole would be acceptable per the CRL's intent as the boot is "black."

The only other issue I see that must be changed on the Cairo boot is the rectangle "logo" on the heel. Though the CRL only addresses "logos" on the undersuit, it is a "given" that trademarks and logos which are not specific to a costume must be removed or hidden.

My recommendation is to get with your GML, show him/her the Cairo and ask that if the yellow seams were dyed black, and the heel logo removed, would he/she approve you for basic approval. You won't be able to use them for Level 2.

I hope this helps, but in reality, sometimes there are costumes that will not be achievable due to a person's size, budget, or pieces and parts availability.

[nanotek[CMD-DWM]]

All I can say here is that the boots don't look right but try your best to get them to match the reference from all the advice that has been given. At the end of the day it will be up to your GML, so try your best to get them looking right. I think given the situation there should be some leniency, especially as your shoe size is not run of the mill.

Keep posting your progress in your build thread, the team will try to guide you as best as we can.

I have occasionally snagged a pair of Jered's in my size on eBay by setting up a saved search, I would recommend you do something similar for both Jered and Talib as they do pop up from time to time. 

[GeorgiosHD]

understood, and im thankful for the help, admittedely its been an ongoing issue with my local gml that they keep trying to upscale the applications directly to level 2 from the getgo, which they should not be doing, bu that is an issue for another day.

[nanotek[CMD-DWM]]

12 hours ago, GeorgiosHD said:

understood, and im thankful for the help, admittedely its been an ongoing issue with my local gml that they keep trying to upscale the applications directly to level 2 from the getgo, which they should not be doing, bu that is an issue for another day.

Yes, unfortunately there is not much we can do about that as a Detachment, however this should be raised to the CO as L2 are not required for basic. 

[nanotek[CMD-DWM]]

@GeorgiosHD

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/185342346490?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=705-154756-20017-0&ssspo=0OoysbD8SFC&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=cZVRDzz9Qaq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

[GeorgiosHD]

3 hours ago, nanotek said:

@GeorgiosHD

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/185342346490?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=705-154756-20017-0&ssspo=0OoysbD8SFC&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=cZVRDzz9Qaq&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

size 10 for me unfortunately, i need a us size 13

[nanotek[CMD-DWM]]

7 hours ago, GeorgiosHD said:

size 10 for me unfortunately, i need a us size 13

They are US size 13 as indicated in the pictures 

[GeorgiosHD]

it will still end up being around 350$ canadian for those boots, im just not willing to spend that much to be honest, for a boot that is going to be 80% hidden by oyher things

[Lt. Dan[501st]]

On 5/22/2022 at 7:41 AM, Chaos said:

I hope this helps, but in reality, sometimes there are costumes that will not be achievable due to a person's size, budget, or pieces and parts availability.

I totally agree with @Chaos statement above! All we can do is to provide help & tips if asked, but in the end its a personal attitude to certain things especially details. In my opinion its irrelevant if 80% of the shoe is hidden by the armor. Its a certain part of the costume and should be correct as possible even when the prices are high and the resources are low. Otherwise another cheaper costume would be the better choice.

[GeorgiosHD]

7 hours ago, Lt. Dan said:

I totally agree with @Chaos statement above! All we can do is to provide help & tips if asked, but in the end its a personal attitude to certain things especially details. In my opinion its irrelevant if 80% of the shoe is hidden by the armor. Its a certain part of the costume and should be correct as possible even when the prices are high and the resources are low. Otherwise another cheaper costume would be the better choice.

Except as indicated by chaos in the very same post, that with minor modifications the Cairo boot is acceptable so...I have the opportunity to spend 130$ for a pair of boots or 350-400$ for basically the same pair of boots. As well, I'm not completely inept when it comes to working on certain things for an armor kit or on individual pieces. All told,  I could use some shoe dye or paint to change the color of the threading and some acetone and sandpaper will quickly remove the logo on the rear of the heel. As well, it has nothing to do with the fact of the costume being expensive considering just this Saturday I spent approximately 1800$ for my full kit, helmet and gloves. Plus another 380 for the undersuit a few weeks ago. 

 

The fact of the matter being that I personally am unwilling to spend a prodigious amount of money on something that is scarcely visible. And honestly if it's not been made clear already, I'm a current member of the 501st with other costumes and props under my belt. 

[Lt. Dan[501st]]

George, this was nothing personal. Don't get me wrong, if I upset you I'm sorry! But especially when you spend so much money on a costume, the shoes shouldn't be the achilles heel of the costumes overall appearance. To me they look weird, just my 2 cents! In the end its up to your GML.

[GeorgiosHD]

Im sorry, im at home right now sick and have a migraine, should probably not add internets to that mix to be honest.