Forest Trooper - CRL Discussion

[Gree23[CMD-DCA]]

6 minutes ago, RAIDER said:

For me, the white isnt super important…just cause i think the camo is gonna cover up almost all of it (my eyes still dont see it eeek lol).

I good with that then. Ultimately it will be up to the GMLs to determine its validity and maybe leaving out "white base" will allow for a more open perception, while staying consistent with the appearance 

[Chaos[CMD-DCA]]

Good day all, going to throw my two cents in here simply because I know "camo" 😄 and having worked with many CRL discussions about colors and sheens due to lighting (because opinions are like sphincters, everyone has one). The graphics designers of the game most likely used variants of colors' shading and lighting to give a more realistic appearance. Much like we had with the DT in trying to decide if a color was flat black that looked gray due to lighting, or it was actually gray.
I could go into all the aspects of why certain backgrounds are used in camo patterns etc., but I think the bottom line is the base color could be a really light shade of green, or brown, or even gray. Unless you have the exact color HEX code the designer actually used, you will never know. I think this CRL should not require that the base material or color be of a “specific” color (because we just do not know) but maybe say something like this.

•    The costume's armor and hard pieces are camouflaged with "diffused" colors of green and brown in varying shades/tints with a "lighter shade" variant undertone/base. See reference photos.

I am a firm believer in the K.I.S.S principle. 

[Masek]

Hi complete newbie to this but highly interested, just a quick question on the camo for the forrest trooper could the armour have camo hydrographics that could be designed specifically for the trooper. Then there will be a uniform camo style throughout.

[Gree23[CMD-DCA]]

On 6/7/2024 at 11:50 PM, Chaos said:

Good day all, going to throw my two cents in here simply because I know "camo" 😄 and having worked with many CRL discussions about colors and sheens due to lighting (because opinions are like sphincters, everyone has one). The graphics designers of the game most likely used variants of colors' shading and lighting to give a more realistic appearance. Much like we had with the DT in trying to decide if a color was flat black that looked gray due to lighting, or it was actually gray.
I could go into all the aspects of why certain backgrounds are used in camo patterns etc., but I think the bottom line is the base color could be a really light shade of green, or brown, or even gray. Unless you have the exact color HEX code the designer actually used, you will never know. I think this CRL should not require that the base material or color be of a “specific” color (because we just do not know) but maybe say something like this.

•    The costume's armor and hard pieces are camouflaged with "diffused" colors of green and brown in varying shades/tints with a "lighter shade" variant undertone/base. See reference photos.

I am a firm believer in the K.I.S.S principle. 

Im trying to find it but the material i read on this variant states it is a base biker scout with this paint scheme. My assumption was that it is a white armor scout painted camo. Just as the swamp trooper states that shades of white are seen from under the green, i would assume it to be the same. But again just my opinion. My true hope is for this Detachment to make a call and go with it, so that we can move on with the CRL. Maybe we need to have a vote? Idk. I just dont want this to be a sticking point. I am also a GML and know how people are when it comes to what is and isnt in the CRL. Maybe I am being too particular lol! Either way I am glad to have more input on this, keep it coming!

[Gree23[CMD-DCA]]

3 hours ago, Masek said:

Hi complete newbie to this but highly interested, just a quick question on the camo for the forrest trooper could the armour have camo hydrographics that could be designed specifically for the trooper. Then there will be a uniform camo style throughout.

Thats the beauty about camo, while you can require a consistent pattern, we dont all have to match exactly the same. I would rather not require the use of a singular camo pattern, but instead obtain consistency across the legion. Now developing that would be cool, and being able to offer it as a solution to those that cant paint, or dont want to. But not as a requirement for approval. 

[Masek]

That's exactly what I was thinking.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

On 6/10/2024 at 8:37 AM, Gree23 said:

Im trying to find it but the material i read on this variant states it is a base biker scout with this paint scheme. My assumption was that it is a white armor scout painted camo. Just as the swamp trooper states that shades of white are seen from under the green, i would assume it to be the same. But again just my opinion. My true hope is for this Detachment to make a call and go with it, so that we can move on with the CRL. Maybe we need to have a vote? Idk. I just dont want this to be a sticking point. I am also a GML and know how people are when it comes to what is and isnt in the CRL. Maybe I am being too particular lol! Either way I am glad to have more input on this, keep it coming!

If you'd like to include this in the Special Notes section I suppose you could 

may be slightly weathered to look as if white is showing through with minor scuffs/dirt.

I think that still let's white be 100% optional and not restrict what the base absolutely has to be...that's why I lean towards a  similar verbiage to the Kashyyyk Trooper CRL which doesn't specify any base and basically says "match the pic" (which just means the CRL model will need to be on point to what the camo look should be. 

[Gree23[CMD-DCA]]

6 minutes ago, RAIDER said:

If you'd like to include this in the Special Notes section I suppose you could 

may be slightly weathered to look as if white is showing through with minor scuffs/dirt.

I think that still let's white be 100% optional and not restrict what the base absolutely has to be...that's why I lean towards a  similar verbiage to the Kashyyyk Trooper CRL which doesn't specify any base and basically says "match the pic" (which just means the CRL model will need to be on point to what the camo look should be. 

Definitely like that! Sounds good!

[Masek]

Personally weathered looks better to me. A lived in look.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

On 6/11/2024 at 11:57 AM, RAIDER said:

If you'd like to include this in the Special Notes section I suppose you could 

may be slightly weathered to look as if white is showing through with minor scuffs/dirt.

I think that still let's white be 100% optional and not restrict what the base absolutely has to be...that's why I lean towards a  similar verbiage to the Kashyyyk Trooper CRL which doesn't specify any base and basically says "match the pic" (which just means the CRL model will need to be on point to what the camo look should be. 

I want to echo this, I was trying to take a look at the Pathfinders CRL for the KT and it is down at the moment, but they do have some good text for the camo that we can build upon. I spoke with the Pathfinders DL and if we need anything or clarification on text they'll be happy to help. If we look at the edges of the helmet in the reference images it has the "appearance" that there is a base tone of a lighter color (whether it is white or a very light tan/almost white, that is up to who is looking). Having the possibility of white showing gives the costume longevity as it naturally weathers through wearing it.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

@Gree23 If you want to redraft boot text we can review it and then move on.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Going to try and finalize this Boot text here:

Boots and Boot Shafts

• Marine vinyl which is not too glossy in appearance, used to construct the boot shaft, and is painted/weathered to match the rest of the armor. Each boot shaft has the following details:
  • Two (2) black straps, made of leather, leather-like material, or marine vinyl and are approximately 1" (25.4mm) wide.
  • Each strap wraps completely around the leg, beginning and ending at the back of the boot.
  • A seam may be present on the back of the leg of each boot shaft.
  • Boot shaft terminates just below the knee armor.
• The soles of the boots are gray.
• A "dog bone" shaped strap covers the bridge of the foot and is black in color. Marine vinyl is also used.
• Toe of the boot is black marine vinyl, leather or leather-like material. 
• The boots are secured up the back using 1" (25.4mm) black hook and loop fastener.
• Slightly textured vinyl, leather or leather-like material is acceptable.
• No holster is present on the boot.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• The boots have a flat sole with notches accurate to the visual model cut in.
• The boot sole is a single gray color with no visible stitching.
• Boot shaft closure is inside over outside, opposite of normal scout boots.
• Boots that are constructed too wrinkled (i.e., not stretched/fitted correctly prior to gluing) or poor in appearance will be refused.
• Stitching, if any, used for the boot should be colored or painted to blend in to the area they are used.

[Gree23[CMD-DCA]]

15 minutes ago, IcyTrooper said:

Going to try and finalize this Boot text here:

Boots and Boot Shafts

• Marine vinyl which is not too glossy in appearance, used to construct the boot shaft, and is painted/weathered to match the rest of the armor. Each boot shaft has the following details:
  • Two (2) black straps, made of leather, leather-like material, or marine vinyl and are approximately 1" (25.4mm) wide.
  • Each strap wraps completely around the leg, beginning and ending at the back of the boot.
  • A seam may be present on the back of the leg of each boot shaft.
  • Boot shaft terminates just below the knee armor.
• The soles of the boots are gray.
• A "dog bone" shaped strap covers the bridge of the foot and is black in color. Marine vinyl is also used.
• Toe of the boot is black marine vinyl, leather or leather-like material. 
• The boots are secured up the back using 1" (25.4mm) black hook and loop fastener.
• Slightly textured vinyl, leather or leather-like material is acceptable.
• No holster is present on the boot.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• The boots have a flat sole with notches accurate to the visual model cut in.
• The boot sole is a single gray color with no visible stitching.
• Boot shaft closure is inside over outside, opposite of normal scout boots.
• Boots that are constructed too wrinkled (i.e., not stretched/fitted correctly prior to gluing) or poor in appearance will be refused.
• Stitching, if any, used for the boot should be colored or painted to blend in to the area they are used.

This looks good. Only thing is I think the seam for the straps around the shaft are not at the back, but are offset to the back right or back left respectively, if that makes sense. Or at least that is the perception?

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

4 minutes ago, Gree23 said:

This looks good. Only thing is I think the seam for the straps around the shaft are not at the back, but are offset to the back right or back left respectively, if that makes sense. Or at least that is the perception?

I may need to clarify it in the post and for the straps themselves, but the seam I'm talking about is the one for the boot shaft here:

[Gree23[CMD-DCA]]

This is what I am talking about. But the straps appear to offset from the direct back on a pic. 

[Gree23[CMD-DCA]]

This is the part I am referencing. It appears that the seam of the strap is offset the seam of the boot shaft, meeting towards the back of the outside of the boot shaft, but not at the same location as the shaft closure 

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

38 minutes ago, Gree23 said:

This is the part I am referencing. It appears that the seam of the strap is offset the seam of the boot shaft, meeting towards the back of the outside of the boot shaft, but not at the same location as the shaft closure 

I see what you mean now, I think that we just state that the straps close on the rear of the boot shaft and not get hyper-specific unless for L2. On the right leg is to the left of the boot shaft seam as well?

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

This would be what we are looking at now:

Boots and Boot Shafts

• Marine vinyl which is not too glossy in appearance, used to construct the boot shaft, and is painted/weathered to match the rest of the armor. Each boot shaft has the following details:
  • Two (2) black straps, made of leather, leather-like material, or marine vinyl and are approximately 1" (25.4mm) wide.
  • Each strap wraps completely around the leg, beginning and ending at the back of the boot. The seam of each strap closure terminates on the rear of the boot shaft.
  • Boot shaft terminates just below the knee armor and a seam may be present on the back of the leg of each boot shaft.
• The soles of the boots are gray.
• A "dog bone" shaped strap covers the bridge of the foot and is black in color. Marine vinyl is also used.
• Toe of the boot is black marine vinyl, leather or leather-like material. 
• The boots are secured up the back using 1" (25.4mm) black hook and loop fastener.
• Slightly textured vinyl, leather or leather-like material is acceptable.
• No holster is present on the boot.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• The boots have a flat sole with notches accurate to the visual model cut in.
• The boot sole is a single gray color with no visible stitching.
• Boot shaft closure is inside over outside, opposite of normal scout boots.
• Boot shaft black strap closure seams are offset of that of the rear seam from the boot shaft closure.
• Boots that are constructed too wrinkled (i.e., not stretched/fitted correctly prior to gluing) or poor in appearance will be refused.
• Stitching, if any, used for the boot should be colored or painted to blend in to the area they are used.

[Gree23[CMD-DCA]]

Im good with that!

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Back to the Helmet again. From the reference images I think we should only allow black or dark green lenses and not mirrored for the purposes of this costume (similar to what was done for the Swamp Trooper, from this game). I agree with the rest of the text that was proposed here, especially the snout being gray, squad emblem on both sides and removal of lower right rear vent details/indentions. We should go with a Special Notes section for the painting notes and then just state "...is painted to match armor" on most pieces that have it. That would allow for better consistency.

Helmet

• Helmet is painted to match armor.
• Scout style helmet accurate in shape and form.
• Eye lens is black or dark green.
• Flat or concave elevator bolts.
• Snout is gray with black details.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Details are the correct color and placed as shown.
• Scout style details are present, either painted or decals.
• Ear holes are correctly shaped and have no mesh.
• Black 3M Speedglas bolts or replicas mount the faceplate to the helmet. (Visible bolt head diameter of 22mm).
• Accurate snout detail and aerator with accurate parts, mounted onto a plate and painted gray with black details.
• Accurate squared emblem located on the left and right faceplate "blinder".
• Accurate rear helmet "bar code" striping pattern.
• Accurate three lines on center of forehead area.
• No visible seams on the dome.
• No visible "vent" detail/indentions on lower right of back of helmet.

[Gree23[CMD-DCA]]

2 minutes ago, IcyTrooper said:

Back to the Helmet again. From the reference images I think we should only allow black or dark green lenses and not mirrored for the purposes of this costume (similar to what was done for the Swamp Trooper, from this game). I agree with the rest of the text that was proposed here, especially the snout being gray, squad emblem on both sides and removal of lower right rear vent details/indentions. We should go with a Special Notes section for the painting notes and then just state "...is painted to match armor" on most pieces that have it. That would allow for better consistency.

Helmet

• Scout style helmet accurate in shape and form.
• Eye lens is black or dark green.
• Helmet is painted to match armor.
• Flat or concave elevator bolts.
• Snout is gray with black details.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Details are the correct color and placed as shown.
• Scout style details are present, either painted or decals.
• Ear holes are correctly shaped and have no mesh.
• Black 3M Speedglas bolts or replicas mount the faceplate to the helmet. (Visible bolt head diameter of 22mm).
• Accurate snout detail and aerator with accurate parts, mounted onto a plate and painted gray with black details.
• Accurate squared emblem located on the left and right faceplate "blinder".
• Accurate rear helmet "bar code" striping pattern.
• Accurate three lines on center of forehead area.
• No visible seams on the dome.
• No visible "vent" detail/indentions on lower right of back of helmet.

Seems pretty straightforward here. Love it. And that allows for a simple scout order and go more refined details on L2. 

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

The Balaclava should be good with the standard text here:

Balaclava

• A balaclava is a black head sock/hood that is worn under the helmet and is used primarily to hide any view of the wearer’s skin and/or facial hair.

So, the Flight Suit is the next piece and I agree with the higher level requiring the removal of thigh patches. I made some corrections for consistency:

Flight Suit

• The undersuit is a one or two-piece black textile suit, such as military flightsuits, motorcycle racing suits, industrial work clothing (Dickies), or similar suit modified appropriately.
• Stand-up collar conceals the neck with an enclosing strap to keep the collar closed.
• Must have a suede or faux suede butt flap attached above the waist hidden by the cummerbund and is rectangular in shape. The flap is slightly narrower than the width of the trooper and stops slightly higher than the bottom edge of the troopers backside.
• Suede or faux suede thigh patches may be present, extending over the flight suit crotch and down the front finishing above the knee armor. The thigh patches must be secured by 2" (50mm) black elastic, sewn in under the front and back of the thigh patch.
• See the Scout Trooper Flight Suit page for detailed images of the patches described below.
• Suit must not have any visible labels, logos or zippers (including built in flight suit pockets).
   

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Suit is fairly fitted and not baggy.
• Black suede or faux suede thigh riding patch is removed. The 2" (50mm) black elastic runs completely around the leg/thigh.
• Real black suede square/rectangular butt patch is attached to flight suit at the rear under where cummerbund sits. No external visible stitching.
• Size will differ slightly from scout to scout, but correct scale is maintained.

 

[Gree23[CMD-DCA]]

49 minutes ago, IcyTrooper said:

The Balaclava should be good with the standard text here:

Balaclava

• A balaclava is a black head sock/hood that is worn under the helmet and is used primarily to hide any view of the wearer’s skin and/or facial hair.

So, the Flight Suit is the next piece and I agree with the higher level requiring the removal of thigh patches. I made some corrections for consistency:

Flight Suit

• The undersuit is a one or two-piece black textile suit, such as military flightsuits, motorcycle racing suits, industrial work clothing (Dickies), or similar suit modified appropriately.
• Stand-up collar conceals the neck with an enclosing strap to keep the collar closed.
• Must have a suede or faux suede butt flap attached above the waist hidden by the cummerbund and is rectangular in shape. The flap is slightly narrower than the width of the trooper and stops slightly higher than the bottom edge of the troopers backside.
• Suede or faux suede thigh patches may be present, extending over the flight suit crotch and down the front finishing above the knee armor. The thigh patches must be secured by 2" (50mm) black elastic, sewn in under the front and back of the thigh patch.
• See the Scout Trooper Flight Suit page for detailed images of the patches described below.
• Suit must not have any visible labels, logos or zippers (including built in flight suit pockets).
   

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Suit is fairly fitted and not baggy.
• Black suede or faux suede thigh riding patch is removed. The 2" (50mm) black elastic runs completely around the leg/thigh.
• Real black suede square/rectangular butt patch is attached to flight suit at the rear under where cummerbund sits. No external visible stitching.
• Size will differ slightly from scout to scout, but correct scale is maintained.

 

See this is why you are the boss! Good thinking with "may" and those changes. Looks good. 

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Going to do the Shoulder and Upper Arm Armor together. I agree with it being the same as we have seen with the other scout costumes. I'm moving any text about "painted to match the rest of the armor" as the first bullet for pieces:

Shoulder Armor

• Painted to match the rest of the armor.
• Black elastic is used to secure the armor around upper arm.
• Shoulder pieces do not have any adornment.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Armor is secured around bicep with a 0.5" (12mm) black elastic strap.
• Bottom corners are rounded.
• Optional: Affix top of shoulder bells to shoulder bridge loops.

-------------

Upper Arm Armor

• Painted to match the rest of the armor.
• Armor has a recessed area with a contrasting black "T-bit" detail attached within.
• Black elastic is used to secure the armor around upper arm.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Armor is secured around the arm with a 1.5" (40mm) black elastic strap.
• Accurate "T-bit" detail is mounted to the armor.
• T-bit circle detail piece faces forward on each arm.

[Gree23[CMD-DCA]]

4 minutes ago, IcyTrooper said:

Going to do the Shoulder and Upper Arm Armor together. I agree with it being the same as we have seen with the other scout costumes. I'm moving any text about "painted to match the rest of the armor" as the first bullet for pieces:

Shoulder Armor

• Painted to match the rest of the armor.
• Black elastic is used to secure the armor around upper arm.
• Shoulder pieces do not have any adornment.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Armor is secured around bicep with a 0.5" (12mm) black elastic strap.
• Bottom corners are rounded.
• Optional: Affix top of shoulder bells to shoulder bridge loops.

-------------

Upper Arm Armor

• Painted to match the rest of the armor.
• Armor has a recessed area with a contrasting black "T-bit" detail attached within.
• Black elastic is used to secure the armor around upper arm.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Armor is secured around the arm with a 1.5" (40mm) black elastic strap.
• Accurate "T-bit" detail is mounted to the armor.
• T-bit circle detail piece faces forward on each arm.

This looks good. My only question is, and this is because I get this as a GML with other costumes. Will we have an area that specifies the color or shade of green or reference that in any way?