Forest Trooper - CRL Discussion

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

40 minutes ago, Gree23 said:

This looks good. My only question is, and this is because I get this as a GML with other costumes. Will we have an area that specifies the color or shade of green or reference that in any way? 

On the first page and post of this thread I went in and update the "Special Notes" section to say the following:

• When specified, costume parts will be painted in a camouflage similar to that found in the reference photos:
  • Tan base base coat (see note about white showing through below).
  • Camo patterns colored dark green and dark brown .
• May be slightly weathered to look as if white is showing through with minor scuffs/dirt

We can specify Pantones or like colors and hex codes as needed for general guidelines as well.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Got another two easy ones from the looks of it for the Forearm Armor and Gloves:

Forearm Armor

• Painted to match the rest of the armor.
• Black elastic is used to secure the armor around forearm.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Armor is secured around the arm with a 1" (25.4mm) black elastic strap.

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Gloves

• Black leather and gauntlet length.
• Detailed gloves include:
  • Black suede or faux suede patches on top of the middle finger, index finger, and thumb.
  • Four tightly spaced ribs that span the knuckles.
• There are no labels/logos, clips, or external straps.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Suede or faux suede padding on fingers and inside of thumb and correct gauntlet stitching.

[Gree23[CMD-DCA]]

10 minutes ago, IcyTrooper said:

Got another two easy ones from the looks of it for the Forearm Armor and Gloves:

Forearm Armor

• Painted to match the rest of the armor.
• Black elastic is used to secure the armor around forearm.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Armor is secured around the arm with a 1" (25.4mm) black elastic strap.

-------------------------------

Gloves

• Black leather and gauntlet length.
• Detailed gloves include:
  • Black suede or faux suede patches on top of the middle finger, index finger, and thumb.
  • Four tightly spaced ribs that span the knuckles.
• There are no labels/logos, clips, or external straps.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Suede or faux suede padding on fingers and inside of thumb and correct gauntlet stitching.

Definitely good on these

[RAIDER[COTG]]

On 6/27/2024 at 11:59 PM, IcyTrooper said:

The boots have a flat sole with notches accurate to the visual model cut in.

Looks good. Just a clarification (I’d like to note details we can highlight that would differentiate Level 2 from a simple ROTJ scout conversion).

The verbiage covers it BUT not sure if this should be specified…the boots dont appear to have cuts in the toe section of the sole….cant see the back as it looks like the vinyl covers the rear sole of the boot.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Helmet.  Just 2 things (probably Level 2 reqs):

Right blinder appears to have the “wrong” fish hook decal…basically looks like we need a different decal on each side.

Snout is not the same as a standard scout…that would be a custom (prob 3D printed/designed) piece.

We good to require these for Level 2 at least?

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Balaclava, flightsuit, gloves, shoulder armor all look good

Upper armor my only question would be the greeblie detail but Im not sire theres enough there to warrant making a unique requirement different than a standard scout.

[Gree23[CMD-DCA]]

3 hours ago, RAIDER said:

Helmet.  Just 2 things (probably Level 2 reqs):

Right blinder appears to have the “wrong” fish hook decal…basically looks like we need a different decal on each side.

Snout is not the same as a standard scout…that would be a custom (prob 3D printed/designed) piece.

We good to require these for Level 2 at least?

Yeah I believe that was added to the lvl 2 as far as the decal. I think its just the same hook mirrored. 

[Gree23[CMD-DCA]]

3 hours ago, RAIDER said:

Balaclava, flightsuit, gloves, shoulder armor all look good

Upper armor my only question would be the greeblie detail but Im not sire theres enough there to warrant making a unique requirement different than a standard scout.

I think based on the description of the armor based off the material, it is a modified biker scout. So I would have to lean towards it being the same. But you could be right and its different? But cant confirm either 

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

5 hours ago, RAIDER said:

Looks good. Just a clarification (I’d like to note details we can highlight that would differentiate Level 2 from a simple ROTJ scout conversion).

The verbiage covers it BUT not sure if this should be specified…the boots dont appear to have cuts in the toe section of the sole….cant see the back as it looks like the vinyl covers the rear sole of the boot.

We could make the L2 details for the boots to state that the slots are only present on the sides and not the toes.

• The boots have slots cut into the sides and sole, but not on the toe part of the boot.

5 hours ago, RAIDER said:

Helmet.  Just 2 things (probably Level 2 reqs):

Right blinder appears to have the “wrong” fish hook decal…basically looks like we need a different decal on each side.

Snout is not the same as a standard scout…that would be a custom (prob 3D printed/designed) piece.

We good to require these for Level 2 at least?

So, we do have the fish hook on both sides in the L2 text:

• Accurate squared emblem located on the left and right faceplate "blinder".

We could add that it is mirrored on the right faceplate "blinder":

• Accurate squared emblem located on the left and right faceplate "blinder". The emblem is mirrored on the right faceplate "blinder".

I do agree with the snout being accurate in the L2 side, so we did put that in there. We have a variation of that text in both the Swamp Trooper and the Shadow Scout as well:

• Accurate snout detail and aerator with accurate parts, mounted onto a plate and painted gray with black details.

5 hours ago, RAIDER said:

Balaclava, flightsuit, gloves, shoulder armor all look good

Upper armor my only question would be the greeblie detail but Im not sire theres enough there to warrant making a unique requirement different than a standard scout.

Are you saying that it needs to be less detailed? The Swamp Trooper has the same text that we used for this one minus adding the part about painting the upper armor to match the rest of the armor. This is our current text:

Upper Arm Armor

• Painted to match the rest of the armor.
• Armor has a recessed area with a contrasting black "T-bit" detail attached within.
• Black elastic is used to secure the armor around upper arm.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Armor is secured around the arm with a 1.5" (40mm) black elastic strap.
• Accurate "T-bit" detail is mounted to the armor.
• T-bit circle detail piece faces forward on each arm.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

@IcyTrooper Disregard anything regarding the upper arm armor.  Sorry to confuse…I was just saying it is so hard to make out if there is any difference, let’s leave the text as you have it.

Regarding the snout…what Im saying is using the term “accurate snout detail and aerator” may not be sufficient UNLESS the CRL model has the accurate (different) snout.  Otherwise that may be interpreted by people accustomed to traditional scouts as a traditional snout being accurate when it really isnt…especially confusing if the CRL model uses a traditional snout (which I think is ok for Level 1…or should it not be?)

For the helmet blinder, I don’t think it is an exact mirror.

To me the left side blinder looks like the “C” we use on scouts.  The right side looks like the “incorrect” hook that comes on most decal sets.  See here…the “C” (left of the decal sheet) is the left blinder.  The “hook” (right of the decal sheet) looks like the right blinder.  Hope Im making sense with what Im saying lol.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

7 minutes ago, RAIDER said:

@IcyTrooper Disregard anything regarding the upper arm armor.  Sorry to confuse…I was just saying it is so hard to make out if there is any difference, let’s leave the text as you have it.

Regarding the snout…what Im saying is using the term “accurate snout detail and aerator” may not be sufficient UNLESS the CRL model has the accurate (different) snout.  Otherwise that may be interpreted by people accustomed to traditional scouts as a traditional snout being accurate when it really isnt…especially confusing if the CRL model uses a traditional snout (which I think is ok for Level 1…or should it not be?)

For the helmet blinder, I don’t think it is an exact mirror.

To me the left side blinder looks like the “C” we use on scouts.  The right side looks like the “incorrect” hook that comes on most decal sets.  See here…the “C” (left of the decal sheet) is the left blinder.  The “hook” (right of the decal sheet) looks like the right blinder.  Hope Im making sense with what Im saying lol.

I do understand what you are saying about the snout now  

I think a good way to do this would be to update both the Swamp Trooper and this text to have a gallery image of the helmet on the CRL that persons aiming for L2 can reference, especially if the model doesn't have it. I'd like to keep L1 for an either or and then L2 need to one from in the game.

------------------

For the decal on both sides of the blinder, I went to the Swamp Trooper reference photos as it is a reskin from what I can tell:

 

vs

I just don't think there is enough to conclusively say one or the either since it is so low-poly. I'd be inclined to utilize the "C" decal for both sides and mirror them from each other under L2. We may need to update the text on both the Swamp Trooper to specifically talk about the decal only needing to be present on the left side for L1 and for L2 that it needs to be on both and mirrored for the right.

This is a super good discussion.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Correcting the finalized text for the Helmet and Boots:

Helmet

• Helmet is painted to match armor.
• Scout style helmet accurate in shape and form.
• Eye lens is black or dark green.
• Flat or concave elevator bolts.
• Accurate squared emblem is located on the left faceplate "blinder".
  • A mirrored accurate squared emblem may also be located on the right faceplate "blinder".
• Snout is gray with black details.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Details are the correct color and placed as shown.
• Scout style details are present, either painted or decals.
• Ear holes are correctly shaped and have no mesh.
• Black 3M Speedglas bolts or replicas mount the faceplate to the helmet. (Visible bolt head diameter of 22mm).
• Accurate snout detail and aerator with accurate parts, mounted onto a plate and painted gray with black details. Please see the gallery for the accurate in-game snout.
• Accurate squared emblem located on the left faceplate "blinder" and a mirrored accurate squared emblem located on the right faceplate "blinder".
• Accurate rear helmet "bar code" striping pattern.
• Accurate three lines on center of forehead area.
• No visible seams on the dome.
• No visible "vent" detail/indentions on lower right of back of helmet.

-------------------------------

Boots and Boot Shafts

• Marine vinyl which is not too glossy in appearance, used to construct the boot shaft, and is painted/weathered to match the rest of the armor. Each boot shaft has the following details:
  • Two (2) black straps, made of leather, leather-like material, or marine vinyl and are approximately 1" (25.4mm) wide.
  • Each strap wraps completely around the leg, beginning and ending at the back of the boot. The seam of each strap closure terminates on the rear of the boot shaft.
  • Boot shaft terminates just below the knee armor and a seam may be present on the back of the leg of each boot shaft.
• The soles of the boots are gray.
• A "dog bone" shaped strap covers the bridge of the foot and is black in color. Marine vinyl is also used.
• Toe of the boot is black marine vinyl, leather or leather-like material. 
• The boots are secured up the back using 1" (25.4mm) black hook and loop fastener.
• Slightly textured vinyl, leather or leather-like material is acceptable.
• No holster is present on the boot.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• The boots have slots cut into the sides and sole, but not on the toe part of the boot.
• The boot sole is a single gray color with no visible stitching.
• Boot shaft closure is inside over outside, opposite of normal scout boots.
• Boot shaft black strap closure seams are offset of that of the rear seam from the boot shaft closure.
• Boots that are constructed too wrinkled (i.e., not stretched/fitted correctly prior to gluing) or poor in appearance will be refused.
• Stitching, if any, used for the boot should be colored or painted to blend in to the area they are used.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Onto the Vest and Chest Armor text and looks to be standard at least with the Vest.

The Chest Armor we'll need to take a look on the shoulder connections, as it isn't easy to see the connection.

Vest

• Made out of black fabric.
• Sleeves are padded and contain ribbing similar to the front of the cummerbund.
• The sleeves are just slightly longer than the bottom edge of the shoulder armor.
• Vest has a much wider neck opening than the flight suit.
• Secured at the back using 2" (50mm) black hook and loop fastener.
• Vest should be made of same or similar fabric to the cummerbund.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• The vest is separate from the flight suit and cummerbund.
• Made using the Vest tutorial.

------------------------------------

Chest Armor

• Painted to match the rest of the armor.
• There is a recessed rectangular area present over the right breast that must be painted black.
• The chest and back armor join together over the shoulder and the gap covered with a loop of black fabric or olive-green fabric.
• The sides of the chest armor are attached to the back armor with black webbing or elastic.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Shoulder bridge covers, covering the join between the front and back of the armor, are made of fabric that is dyed or painted to match that of the armor it connects.
• Nylon webbing is inaccurate.
• Side under arm chest/back straps are made from 1.5" (40mm) black webbing or elastic strap.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Are we good with the fabric that attaches the chest and back armor? I was going to allow for both options but we did have olive-green in there before, maybe forest green if we want to do a singular color?

We did something similar with the Swamp Trooper by saying it is green fabric.

[Gree23[CMD-DCA]]

11 minutes ago, IcyTrooper said:

Are we good with the fabric that attaches the chest and back armor? I was going to allow for both options but we did have olive-green in there before, maybe forest green if we want to do a singular color?

We did something similar with the Swamp Trooper by saying it is green fabric.

Pretty sure the under arm attachment is black without question. Would think a dark green for the shoulder bridge?

[Heavy[CMD-DCA]]

6 hours ago, Gree23 said:

Pretty sure the under arm attachment is black without question. Would think a dark green for the shoulder bridge?

Following the CRL and just wanted to say this is looking really great, you guys are doing one h... of a job on this 😄 

I agree with Jordan regarding the colors of the under arm attachment and shoulder bridge 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

On 7/4/2024 at 7:53 PM, Gree23 said:

Pretty sure the under arm attachment is black without question. Would think a dark green for the shoulder bridge?

Yea I cant really make out if the underarm is black or a dark green…can go either way. I will say it does look a different shade than the black flightsuit.

Shoulder…doesn’t look dark at all and almost blends with the armor (if you can even say a cover is there to begin with…though I think there’s enough texture there to say there is).

[RAIDER[COTG]]

@IcyTrooper Can you flip Flightsuit to yellow please?  I just want to ask some questions on that once we are set on the the vest/chest/back

[Gree23[CMD-DCA]]

On 7/6/2024 at 9:23 AM, RAIDER said:

@IcyTrooper Can you flip Flightsuit to yellow please?  I just want to ask some questions on that once we are set on the the vest/chest/back

Curious as to what your questions are. Seems pretty straight forward no? What are you seeing? 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

@Gree23 Will get to it. But let’s finish the other questions @IcyTrooper had first on these pieces.  Can we agree that the shoulder strap is not black nor dark green?

Go with Ryan’s suggestion of “olive green”? Is that about what we see in the reference?

[Gree23[CMD-DCA]]

I still think black should be an option. It looks black to me. But its hard to tell

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Okay, finally have a chance to get back on this after working some stuff out with some of the questions we have out for placement.

Addressing the question about the side connection color for the chest to back armor pieces:

• This connection should be "black" as it already specifies in the text, that is what I'm seeing.

Addressing the question about the shoulder connection color for the chest to back armor pieces:

• Looking back, the only reason I suggested black is because of the color match issue we may have between the armor pieces and the fabric, and wanted to have a consistency there, however, I think perhaps just doing the black would draw more attention to it other than pointing out what I had original put. The original post was "olive-green" and I threw in "forest green" and then in L2 I said that it must be colored to match the armor. I think we should probably go with the original "olive-green" to match as close to the armor coloration as possible. Looking at swatches, this seems a closer match than forest green:
  

This would bring the text to this now:

Chest Armor

• Painted to match the rest of the armor.
• There is a recessed rectangular area present over the right breast that must be painted black.
• The chest and back armor join together over the shoulder and the gap covered with a loop of olive-green fabric.
• The sides of the chest armor are attached to the back armor with black webbing or elastic.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Shoulder bridge covers, covering the join between the front and back of the armor, are made of fabric that is dyed or painted to match that of the armor it connects.
• Nylon webbing is inaccurate.
• Side under arm chest/back straps are made from 1.5" (40mm) black webbing or elastic strap.

[Gree23[CMD-DCA]]

Yes. Ok I am a dummy and a little tired. I was thinking of the underarm strap and not the bridge fabric. Thats my mistake and yes I agree. 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

@IcyTrooper That looks good to me…and yea @Gree23 sorry I knew in an earlier post I was prob unclear.  Black on underarm works…shoulder strap cover was what I was talking about but this looks good now.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

K just a quick revisit to flightsuit…and this may be nothing…but playing devil’s advocate  so the L2 reqs really do bring this closer to the game model rather than the ROTJ scout.

Let me preface these though noting that I looked at the standard SWG biker scout and the game model looks the same (so it has the same differences from a ROTJ scout ie boots, belt, etc) meaning if someone were to hypothetically do a SWG scout it would end up being much different from an ROTJ…think of it like the Rebels scout CRL vs ROTJ.

So…our approach so far seems to lean towards the game model (esp for L2 reqs) and fill gaps with the ROTJ scout due to the low res or allow ROTJ elements at L1.

Ok geez I hope Ive made sense to this point.  So here are the 3 questions (one is already addressed):

1) Thigh patches…this is all set…removed at L2 because they arent in the game model.

2) Thigh straps. On a normal scout they start and end with the thigh patch and therefore do not go all the way around the leg.  But on the game model we see…

Should we account for this?

3) Butt flap.  Is there one?  I’m not sure.  If there is no flap…what exactly is going on w the butt?  Whatever is there doesnt drop below/cover the butt like we would expect a flap to do.  I added a side view below to show there isn’t any flap flapping as well though that could just be a limitation of the game graphics of the time.

Again…just presenting what I noticed.  Wanted to make sure we covered it though since we seem to have a CRL here that will be very accommodating at L1 with a general scout look while being more tight at L2 with a true-to-game look…as opposed to just making the whole CRL it’s own thing top to bottom with new reqs at both L1 and L2 (ie Rebels Scout…or animated vs realistic clones).