BigJasoni

😆I'm editing it. Tread is the word I was looking for.

Ok. Per the references, which were very clear, we need to be very deliberate in our approach here. We kind of messed this up on the Imperial Andor Trooper (Aldhani), and need to go back and correct that. So, let's make sure we get this one right. The boots they used on set are definitively German Navy Bundesmarine Sea Boots (German Bundesmarine Jack Boots). The German Navy Sea boots are significantly shorter than standard German jack boots, and nowhere near the Chrome Tanned Russian Officer boots used for the ICAT and Muddy. Additionally, we've already seen the top manufacturers start marketing their Tie Pilot Jack Boots as acceptable boots for this costume and they couldn't be more wrong. Here's the issue with the current manufacturers: 1. Boots are too tall. The Bundesmarine Jack Boots are mid to upper shin level boots (depending on the trooper's height). This is most noticeable by how the shin armor never seems to stay put on any of the troopers during the Rix Road scene. Here's a picture of those non-armor guys marching around Ferrix in The Axe Forgets episode: Notice how high the thigh patch is above the top of the boots. Next, I want to highlight what I was saying about the shin armor height and where the strap sits: The height of the shin armor causes the strap to constantly sit above the top of the boot every time these guys move. If this were a taller jack boot (1942 style) or a Russian Officer Boot (Mudtrooper/ ICAT) both shin straps would remain on the leather. 2. "Chonky" soles/ tread. The tread of the Bundesmarine boots are flatter and designed to provide traction at sea. The above shots are a little blurry, but notice the much flatter sole with a minimal heel. All three pictures also highlight the shin strap placement and shorter "flap" on the back of the boot. @pm07 posted a few pics of the boot soles back when we were discussing Aldhani: Unfortunately these are pretty dark and we can't make out the design/ pattern. However, we can see in those pics that they were relatively smooth (likely due to extensive wear), but it is pretty clear that the soles were not "knobby." If a person is fortunate enough to get an unused set, they may need to wear them down a little to flatten the soles. Back to Rix Road: Interestingly, in this picture, we actually see two different styles of Jack Boots. The one in the center is a very short "marching boot" style that was used later in WWII. As materials became scarce, the German army began shortening the shafts of the boot until ultimately they were left with ankle height boots and gaiters. This one is the "in-between" era boot, circa late 1943-1944. Additionally, there's no perforation on the front of the boot and the strap/ buckle are either very narrow or missing altogether. We don't see very many examples of this in the show, so similar to the bicep conversation, I don't believe this was the intent of the costume department. 3. Long flap and incorrect buckles. Contrary to the marching boot, the other style we see in the above picture is the German Navy Sea Boot, which we got an extreme closeup of on Aldhani in The Eye episode. Again... different costume, but same props used. Notice how the crescent shaped flap only extends downwards a couple inches. By contrast, a lot of the popular reproductions we're seeing have a long flap that extends nearly 2/3 of the length of the rear, towards the heel stitching. Additionally, in every reference shot, we have boots with "subdued" buckles, not chrome. If you get a boot with chrome buckles, you might as well break out the Sharpie. 4. Boots are not perforated (holes) in the front. Unfortunately, I can't find the picture that distinctly shows the peroration on the front of the boot, but I know it was visible in several scenes. If someone else finds this reference, please post it. Finally, I wanted to post a picture of my Bundesmarine German Navy Sea Boots. These are very difficult to find, but if you look hard enough, you'll find some. If you're size 7-9, Hessen Antique has some used sets for cheap, but anything larger will require an extensive search or ordering from overseas if you're in the US. Of note, my boots have surprisingly never been worn, so the sole actually has thicker tread than most you'll find that are old and heavily worn. However, it's still minimal compared to most reproductions. 5. The boots are made of Chrome Tan Leather with a natural texture. Notice how the leather has a very distinct texture to it. It is not smooth. We see this clearly on the screen used boots, but the above picture is of actual Bundesmarine boots. 6. No X stitching for the pull tabs: First, take a look at the rectangle stitched on the side of the original boots as seen in the show. You can see this feature in the references I posted above. Now look at the reproductions. That X should not be there. By the way, the reproduction boots I'm referencing are great boots, but they're different than what we see in the show. This also gives a good closeup of the leather texture, i.e chrome tan vs. veg tan. If the reproductions are chrome tanned leather, they're smooth, but they appear to either be veg-tanned or faux leather. Finally, This one's not that important, but a lot of manufacturers use cheaper leather (or faux leather) that doesn't have the same weight (thickness) as the originals. In order to ensure the threads don't rip through where the layers overlap, they often fold the edges over, giving the 1-2oz leather a 2-4oz appearance. This also causes the seams to really stick up tall which often results in cracking and tears along their edges. Here's a picture taken from a reproduction manufacturer's site so you have an idea what I'm talking about: And, here's a picture of the Navy Sea Boot seams: Much lower profile. Also, of note, and totally not important for the CRL, but look how close the heel cup seam is to the front seam on the reproductions, then look at the picture of the originals. It's about an inch difference. Those seams should not be close to touching. Again, neither of these are critical, nor should they be required even for level 2 approval, but they're something to look for if you're buying a set that's advertised as authentic. Often we have people selling reproductions, but advertising them as originals. Look for these cues to help determine if it's the real deal. So after all my ramblings, this is what I'd say: Boots Calf Mid shin high black leather or leather like material. *The reason I choose mid shin (could be mid to upper shin) level is because "calf high" could imply bottom of knee. These aren't English riding, or Russian Officer, nor are they German police style boots. When we start talking about the shin armor, this will come into play. Free of laces, decorative stitching, buckles on the instep or any other embellishments. If seams are present on the shaft, they are at the rear only. Boots may have a single adjustment strap at the top outside of the boot, with the buckle no wider than 1" (25.4mm). This need not be functional. Jackboot buckles should not be shiny/can be painted dingy grey or gun-metal color. Zippers on the inside of the boot are acceptable, so long as they are concealed. If the zipper is not covered by vinyl/ leather, it is painted black. German Bundesmarine Navy Sea boots (German Navy Jack Boots) “jack boot” style boots are most canon. Soles feature a modest heel Stitching is not present on the toe OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Boots are made of leather. Boots must be the German Navy Sea Boot style Sole design must be lower profile (no heavy tread or hobnails) and feature a modest heel. Rear "flap" does not extend lower the upper third of the rear boot height. Front top of boots are perforated Rectangular reinforcement stitching on sides of boots do not have an X sewn in the middle.

I concur with all. The belt and gloves are pretty straight forward.

David, When real life gets in the way, you take care of it. This silly little costuming club doesn't come close to taking care of the things that actually matter in life. Plus, guilty as charged: you posted this eleven days ago and I'm just now replying, so with that said, let me address your draft and explain what I'm thinking. 1. For basic approval a one piece bicep is permitted: Absolutely. Some of the best looking options are one piece and I think this is what the armor is intended to appear as. 2. Bicep cover strips are raised and beveled with an added strip layer on top: This is where I think it gets a little tricky. The top strip does not simply sit on top of the lower; it's inset to the lower cover strip. Again, I point back to the reference photos I posted earlier, but if you all feel they're not definitive enough, I yield. As an example of what I'm talking about, here's mine. 3. Cover strips may be up to 1/8" (2.5mm) thick and beveled on all four sides. Agreed, kind of. The strips are actually thicker than 1/8"; they're closer to being a little over 1/2", which you can see in this picture: Also, maybe we shouldn't use the word "thick" because that kind of insinuates the width of the strips. The strips are approximately 23.5mm wide (just under 1" but proportionate to the wearer's arm of course) and cover strips run the entire height of the bicep in order to to cover the seam. I do think it's pretty definitive that they're beveled on all four sides, which is important when it's time to trim armor. 4. Cover strips will cover the front and back joints. Agreed. See comment above. 5. Biceps are painted to match the armor and helmet. Yup. 6. Biceps are two piece design, with the halves held together in the back by flexible cord, and shall remain flexible. Agreed. But since the cordage is unseen, I'd even venture to allow for any flexible medium, i.e. elastic as long as it remains unseen. But... a person can pick up a few strands of TPU pretty easily. I'd even gladly send some to people if it makes life easier. Here's another example. Now, with the two piece requirement out there for level 2, what are our thoughts on allowing just the outer clam shell as seen by the various "stunt" troopers we spoke about earlier? Again, I don't think it was anyone's intent for the single shell to be caught on camera, but rather the appearance is intended to present a complete set of bicep armor. However, we do see the single shell on screen a couple times.

This is all helpful. Thanks again. I’ll try to keep you motivated😆. I just picked up a can of Duplicolor matte black for another project last night, so I might have to go back and grab some black metallic. However, if everything goes according to plan, I should be close to throwing down some paint on my 000 head this weekend. I’ll do some tests. Regarding the lenses, I think I’ll go see what I can find at the hardware store. Ok, I think you’ve given me enough things to get started, now let’s see yours cross the finish line.

Jon, Since I’ve restarted the 000 project, you can expect to see me reviving posts from ages past. 😆 What color paint is this? Last year I was painting my Deathtrooper helmet and sprayed Tamiya Metallic Black TS40 over a very glossy black base coat. The resulting color was phenomenal, but had to be repainted because it was too dark to satisfy the “metallic dark grey” requirement. However, last night while I was at the hobby store, I picked up another two cans with the goal of intentionally replicating my past error. I can’t help but think yours looks similar, but wanted to check with you. Also, now that it’s fresh on my mind, where did you get those lenses you used for your eyes, or what are they called? I know we’re talking a couple years in the past now, but I was about to order some clear resin and thought I’d see if you could remember first. The resin should work, but yours looks like an awesome alternative. Thanks!

Jon, Thanks for the tips. I'll look into all of these. I will say that I stumbled into the C3PO build group yesterday and was amazed at some of the things that are out there. The brass pistons and sliders made me want some. And this is where I'm tempted to get a little crazy. I've been casting a lot of my own parts recently and was thinking about doing something similar for this one. I might get started on my own and start posting pics. If you start working on these, I'd be interested in seeing the progress. For now, I may just start by making molds for the pistons and a few greeblies. I saw the ones Gordon made and they looked pretty good, so that might be a good start. Thanks again for the help

Sooooo..... I decided to revive my dead 000 thread, because why not. 😆 A couple nights ago, I was reading through @Dishrack's build and saw a post I left which today is exactly 2 years to the day old. Funny how that works. At the time, I commented on how much I loved watching the 000 builds come together, but also read the part where I said: Well, since then I've taken up Ultrarunning and am down 40 lbs. So here we go. So back in 2021, I had printed a face at 100% in PETG. While there's really nothing wrong with PETG, the print had a lot of visible lines, one awkward layer shift and it just seemed very small. After speaking with a few others who had printed their kits, it seemed like many had experienced the same thing with their head files. I had already accepted that the rest of this suit was going to have to be scaled in weird proportions, but this is the first time I've had to do that with any kind of head "armor." Regardless, I printed this new one at 105% and it's perfect. I also decided to reach for the Carbon Fiber PLA, which I've spoken about in other write ups, but I just can't justify using anything else right now. I know the letters P L A are still in the name, but if you haven't tried this stuff yet, I encourage everyone involved with the 3D printing hobby to throw away all your filament and go buy some immediately. I've conducted several stress tests with the stuff and I can confirm that it prints much smoother than most other options, it's heat resistant (I've tested it in 110 degree weather) and it sands very smooth. This one has a couple lines in it as well as some serious stringing, but that's likely because of the environmental changes we've been experiencing out here in Virginia that have worked their way into my basement. I'll make some adjustments and carry on. Now, with all that said, I've got a couple questions I need to throw out to the community, so here we go: 1. I'm looking through my files and cant find the circle greeblie for the back of the head. Anyone know what the deal is with this, or have a file they can direct me to? 2. For the shoulders, level two requires the rings to spin on a "bearing type system," but looking through the build threads, I see @Dishrack and @Allan1313's shoulder rings, but even though the files are called "Shoulder_Bearing_Version_2," I don't understand how this works. Can someone explain this to me. 3. For the abdomen, for level 2, it's supposed to be made of rubber, which the CRL doesn't appear to be, but has there ever been discussion regarding to the closure? I assume Velcro, as seen in the CRL photo is acceptable, but what's most appropriate? I did see Allan's so I think I'll emulate that style. Also, regarding the "gray, dark gray, or black wires," there doesn't seem to be any solid consensus on how these are supposed to be laid out. What do our reference photos show? 4. For the Biceps and Forearms, the "Inner and outer pistons have working articulation." What have people used for this? My guess is that we get light duty struts and put a cover over them. Seeing that the mounts are 3D printed, I'm a little nervous of them breaking off. Has anyone attempted this yet? I can't tell from the build threads. 5. I saw Gordon Tarpley's rubber shorts. Is anyone making anything similar available for purchase? 6. @Dishrack: Jon... are you selling rubber shoes? 😆 Those are so cool. Anyways, I'm going to get back to work on my Ferrix trooper and hopefully we can get that CRL finalized soon. But, for this, if you guys can answer a couple of my questions, it would be greatly appreciated.

Interesting thing about this trooper is that he's not wearing armor, so with respect to the version we're discussing, I'm not sure if this one counts. I believe this guy is in the same uniform as backpack guy, so I think maybe a different trooper. However, we did a version 1 and 2 for Aldhani, so maybe this is the same situation. I think we'd have to look closer at the complete costume to make that decision. Do we have any full-body shots of these guys? I might have to watch Rix Road again, which isn't a bad thing at all. Every time I've gone through the scenes, I've been fixated on the armored up security troopers; this might be a fun little side project.

Kyle, Thanks for reaching out. I'll start with the files since I know the least about that. You're essentially looking for realistic style clone trooper armor. When you start searching, you'll find a lot of options, but I would encourage you to stick to vendors that have been used by others to great success. The Galactic Armory makes good clone trooper armor that many people have been approved in. They also have a Purge Trooper helmet that looks good, but I would also encourage you to keep searching in the forum before you settle on anything. Additionally, I do feel inclined to warn you that 3D printing isn't always the best option when it comes to "full armor" sets. When I say "full armor" I mean an armor set that covers the entirety of your body. I've 3D printed the majority of my costumes, but if it requires thighs, shin, cod and butt armor in addition to an already restrictive abdominal piece, I typically lean towards a vacuum formed kit or fiberglass. Initial thoughts regarding 3D printing is that it'll be cheaper, but when you factor in the price of filament, as well as your additional materials and time, you're really not saving a lot. The other thing to keep in mind is that a lot of designers rush their files; that's why you have to really look into getting something that's been tested and confirmed to be an excellent design. Tom Campbell's Deathtrooper is a good example of a well thought out design. Now, regarding the rest of your question (the stuff I'm an expert on); I always say "friends don't let friends print armor in PLA." PLA/ PLA+ is incredibly easy to print, but is very prone to damage, most notably heat warping. Because of it's propensity to warping in even slightly warmer temperatures, you risk too many issues when using this material. PLA is also prone to melting while sanding. PETG is an alternative that's almost as easy to print as PLA, but is much more resilient. However, carbon fiber PLA is a good alternative. From my tests in temperatures exceeding 100 degrees f, I've found that it doesn't warp, due to it being made of 25% carbon fiber, it can be sanded smooth, and if your settings are dialed in correctly, it prints near perfect. Please see below for a picture of a chest piece I recently printed in CF PLA: This was printed using IEMAI filament. It's about $25 per kg or 2 rolls for $40 on Amazon. I have also printed with Overture, which is a superior brand name, but their CF is prone to stringing. Hope this helps

No. Framilon is just a UK brand name of the stretchy cords they used. It’s nothing more than TPU filament. Any kind of closure that keeps one side closed (Velcro for example) and the back side flexible (elastic, TPU, rubber bands etc.), should be good for a level 2 requirement. For basic, I’m all for what we have listed, but would also offer the option for half the “clam shell” bicep since we see that on screen. However, I don’t think the props department intended for the half bicep to be seen; that’s just us digging.

Lol. I didn't realize you bought that from him. I'll have to dig up the list of fixes I sent him a while back. The pics I keep posting of the mismatched chest and back are his also, but I made sure he didn't care before I posted them. Regardless, I've been away for a while, so let's get back on track: Something about this sounds confusing. There's no true "flat edge" on the shoulders. The bottom and top are both more convex than flat and the lower sides are both symmetrically sized. Flat kind of implies a very straight appearance that would fit awkwardly with the rest of the armor if applied. Again, not endorsing any particular armor, nor do we write CRLs based on available armor, but I want to post a picture of my shoulder just to illustrate the convex curvature of the shoulder piece: If we make the "bracket" a basic approval requirement, we'll be the first to do so. Here's another picture: When you hear "bracket" associated with the shoulder of any Anthology/ Disney+ costume, this is what they're talking about. This is from my TK and it was actually installed backwards to get it to fit my Jimmiroquai armor. Also, now that I look at it, I also installed the elastic that holds the shoulder bell in place on the wrong side; it should be on top, but at least I'm giving you a good pic of the bracket. We saw this on the Shoretrooper, TK, Muddy and ICAT, but we're only assuming it's present on the Ferrix armor as well, so I'd suggest eliminating it until we have something definitive. Regarding the width of the strapping, the above listed costumes all had 2" heavy duty elastic holding on the shoulders, so I'm not sure why we're asking for 1" or 1.25" webbing in this case. If this were the FOTK, we'd be making an argument for two 1" straps and a different style bracket: So those are the only shoulder brackets we know of. I know this is how the Shoretrooper CRL is written, but let's consider revising it. The reason why is because I've seen several vendors supply costumers with two pieces of ABS and say "those are your cover strips." The cover strips are beveled on all four edges, and that top strip in more recessed into the bottom than sitting on top. Again, I hate posting pictures of other trooper armor, but it's the same piece and this is a good shot: So, keep this in mind and look at this pic: Yes, it's small and blurry, but when you take the two pics and combine what we know, you get a very distinct shape on the cover strips. Additionally, for those opting for the two part construction in level two, I think it's worth mentioning that the biceps are intended to have an opening that remains flexible, meaning that the bicep can stretch open a little bit when you're wearing it. This is why they used the stretchy framilon or Thermoplastic Polyurethane (TPU) cord to keep it closed in the anthology movies. Please note the verbiage used in the ROTK CRL for this same piece: Cover strips will cover both the front and back joints. Biceps are loosely held closed in the back with elastic, shock cord (bungee cord) or white Velcro and are designed to remain flexible. "Shock Cord" and "bungee" simply refer to the framilon cordage. That wording needs to be revised. Also worth noting is how the cover strips are designed to cover the clam shell seams. Finally, is it worth noting the ridge on the outer edge of the bicep armor? This is not a cover strip, but has the same general appearance without the "top strip." Unfortunately, I've seen peeps walking around without this on some costumes. Lastly, since it's been discussed previously, should we afford the option for costumers to wear only the outer bicep armor? We've already posted the pics, and while I personally feel it was reserved for stunt actors and those moving around a lot, we can't deny it: I don't like it, nor do I believe it's the intended appearance of the costume, but we have several troopers doing it on screen... just saying.

So I went for a real long run today and had 2 things running through my head while I was on the trails. The first was George Harrison's While My Guitar Gently Weeps, but that's totally irrelevant. The next thing that seriously dominated my thoughts for the 3.5 hours that I was out there was this CRL thread. Yes, those are the kind of things you think about when you're starving your brain of oxygen and the last thing you did before you left the house was posting in this thread. So, somewhere around the second hour, I started thinking about the collar, mostly because I just printed another one in Tenacious Resin, but also because I started second guessing the verbiage that I'm pretty sure I brought up previously: Back plate has a collar that extends upwards and tapers to the chest plate. The collar is seamless and stands 1'-1.5" (25mm-30mm)tall I maintain that the collar stands approximately 1"-1.5" in the rear and tapers down into the chest, but the seamless part started annoying me. I started thinking "where did this idea come from" and I'm pretty sure it was from a Facebook build group. So, let me just say that I can't find anything to support the "seamless" requirement and as a matter of fact, every iteration of this back armor that I've found pictures of shows a seam. Let me post ours: And of course... our armor's daddy: So, just saying... I think we need to get rid of the "seamless" wording.

David, Great job. Sorry it took me so long to respond; I need to set up notifications so I see these updates. First and foremost, I'll caveat everything I have to say with the thought that I love Jimmy's gear. I have three of his fiberglass armor sets and each of them are incredible. However, he definitely has flaws in the Mudtrooper armor that need to be addressed, but if you're trooping as a Muddy and you're wearing a plash, it's all stuff that can't be seen. However, for an ICAT driver, or Aldhani/ Ferrix armor, you either need to pass on it, or make some alterations. Jim has been told about these items, but frankly, it would be more of a hassle to remake the molds and cast new armor for a relatively niche couple costumes. However, there's more than enough troopers running around wearing Jim's armor for their ICAT, who can attest that the GMLs aren't going to harp on the nit-noid details. The back box greeblies may not be 100% accurate, but they represent the details we laid out, i.e. the heatsink may not be 38X38 mm, but it was made to look similar. The biggest issue with that particular armor set would be the neck/ yoke which is clearly seen in multiple ICAT/ Aldhani/ Ferrix scenes. Since it's not covered by a plash on these shows, that thing needs to be worked on, but overall, this is a fine set of armor. Regarding the other vendors: they need to do better. This image I posted earlier on in the conversation is real frustrating: It's actually kind of upsetting because it comes from a pretty good vendor. He spent the time getting the chest right, but then threw in a shoretrooper back and said "welp, my job's done here." When my buddy reached out to the vendor and said "it's the wrong back armor," he was basically told that others had made it work, so he can too. IF these vendors want to continue serving the community, they need to step up, otherwise the entire hobby will be dominated by 3D printing. That's not a horrible thing though, I'm one of the OG 3D guys in the legion. But seriously, some people just can't do 3D printed costumes. I think it's critical to hold the line on the requirements as we develop CRLs. Our Charter specifically calls for the creation and use of quality costumes. This drives the hobby as well as the vendors. It's the basic concept of supply and demand. However, several builders, and GMLs, are taking a laissez-faire attitude with these costumes. While I'm not opposed to looking at a back box and saying "it meets the intent," I am opposed to saying "whatever." That's just my musings. Now let's get into the meat of this post: Only thing we're missing is the stepped ledge at the bottom of the back pack. I've already posted pics, but it should probably be included as a level 2 requirement that reads as: There is a stepped ledge at the bottom of the main back box.

Most of the above requirements reads good and I think we're close. However, I see a few items that may be a bit confusing, so we might want to clean it up just a little. Both recesses have the 8 rectangular vents; we should probably clarify that. Of note, on the screen used Shoretrooper armor, these were hollowed out and backed with a black fabric. Whether this was for ventilation, or just part of the casting process is debatable, but it can't be seen either way. I'm not aware of any vendors, who are doing this for the Mudtrooper/ ICAT armor, but maybe we note it just in case. Here's my two examples for clarification. Notice that you can see through the vents on the one on the right. Also worth noting is the size difference in the two boxes. After I provided a bunch of measurements last week, I started thinking about them. Some will argue the inclusion of this data is irrelevant and for the most part, I agree. However, though our CRL verbiage always clearly states "Requirements for all 501st costumes are proportional to the wearer in scale, fit and size" a lot of these accessories are known parts, so even with 3D print scaling, I think it's appropriate to list the dimensions of certain elements. A known part that measures 38X38X5mm looks a lot different at 100% than it does at 110%. Also, I had a few messages asking me what I was talking about with the MSI DDR reference, so here you go: I agree with everything here. Here's a better pic of one I just put together: Again, not everyone's is going to look exactly the same as this. Some resin castings won't leave space behind the 7 rows of 3 vents, and that's honestly more accurate, but this gives you a good view of the 3 main greeblies in the right box. Here you go:

Ok, as promised, I wanted to throw up some reference material. While I was grabbing it, I also found a few more items that I feel we should note; primarily the collar and maybe requiring the forward angled hose connectors for level 1. The angle of the hose connectors seems like a pretty definitive thing and basic install; I've never seen anything that would lead us to assume otherwise: And here's another picture of the collar. Notice that it sits approximately 25-30mm high in the back. Most vendors have made this change, but others haven't. Early on, several vendors felt that since the collar was hidden by the Mudtrooper's plash, it wasn't necessary. However, since 2018, several reference photos emerged showing views similar to this. You can also see that David and Sean's assessment regarding the webbing loop is correct. Like the Aldhani trooper, it was not included in this costume.

Ok. I wasn't going to jump on the back until tomorrow after I cleaned up my raw prints, but if we want to close it up, here's my recommendations. Please, no comments about layer lines or support remnants; these are extremely raw: The back armor consists of three main parts; each are joined with seamless connections. The three parts are the main back armor, the raised backpack, and the collar/ yoke. For paint, I barely touched on it in an earlier post, but for all armor, I would add moderate weathering is permitted to simulate the Rix Road armor's appearance post-explosion. We can't forget that A circle recess, approximately 25mm in diameter, is located on the right side, on top of the backpack, underneath the right shoulder strap slot. I really feel like we should do a better job at spelling out what the back box greeblies look like (If I had my way, we'd fix this in the Muddy CRL as well). Please see the following excerpt from the Shoretrooper CRL as a reference. My deviations from the shorey CRL are in yellow. The Shoretrooper CRL has a few things that need to be updated as well, but this is different: The upper half of the backpack has two large cut out recesses with (8) symmetrical vent details and greeblies inside. - Each recess has a different and specific set of black greeblies inside which are painted to match the rest of the armor Left Side Recess: - A rectangle shape greeblie with an angled right side end with five panels is present. - The first left panel has a tube on top that runs up the left side and across the top of the recess. - On the right side a heat sink (modeled after an MSI DDR Chipset 38X38mm heatsink) is fitted. I added the part about the MSI DDR Chipset since it's a known part. This also eliminates the "artistic freedom" a lot of our makers have been engaging in with their armor. The shoretrooper CRL also provides a link to a picture of the box which I think is a very good practice; several of the detachments do this to clear up confusion in detailed areas. This is the one I'm currently working on: Right Side Recess: - A long thin strip located directly underneath the 8 vents, has 2 flat ends with approximately 17 cylinder shaped teeth extending from the left edge to approximately 10-14mm from the right edge. - Below it is a rectangle shape greeblie consisting of two parts. - The left side has a raised "vent" in which the far left 1/3 is flat, followed by a thin line recess and 7X3 rows of oblong-shaped indents. - The right side has a circular type hose connector I think the 4 raised bars should be mandatory not optional. Every picture shows them. There are five (5) tapered vents on the lower sides of the backpack. Vents are present on the left and right. There is a stepped ledge at the bottom of the main back box. The above picture shows the stepped ledge side profile. I brought this up in the Aldhani thread also and it was included as a level 2 requirement. "Long thin raised greeblie" kind of gives the wrong impression. Recommend changing to There is an oblong greeblie centered below the two large recesses. The greeblie is aproximately 4.5-5mm tall and 30mm long. There is a small (approximately 5mm diameter) raised circular greeblie centered aproximately 23mm below the oblong greeblie. The bottom of the circular greeblie is in line with the top of the small rectangular cutout on the lower left side of the backpack. Finally, I really think we need to spell out how this armor is different in shape from the Shoretrooper. Again, this is due to people assuming that it's the same piece of armor and not realizing the main back armor has a very distinct shape along the bottom. Please see my Ferrix Trooper (Left) and Shoretrooper (Right) for an example: The bottom of the back armor jets down symmetrically, from a point on either side of the bottom corners of the backpack (approximately 6mm below the bottom edge of the half circle), to where the back and chest armor join. The total drop is approximately 55mm. Also, I will post the screen references soon. These notes are all based off the references, not the armor I'm working with.

I think we might be catching a little glare/ lighting in that picture. I'm taking a look at these other pics and just seeing the same matte/ anthracite color as the rest of the armor. I think the last pic is our most definitive look. In this last picture, check out the guy on the far right of the screen. I think he gives us the best look. Also, I can't help myself... look at the bicep armor on the guy second from the left. He's definitely wearing the inner bicep clam shell, BUT WHERE'S THE COVER STRIP!?!?!?!?!? 😆 I'm sorry. Every time I post something about the chest armor, I get another look at the stupid bicep.

I concur. Sooooo... any thoughts on this?

😆 we were typing at the same time. All credit goes to Sean Fields and Chris Bostock for the armor. Other than Chris and I bouncing a ton of ideas off each other before settling on the final design, my contributions were limited to shoulder and shin straps and remixing Sean's buckle designs. The big things Chris and I talked through were the overall shape of the chest "slope" and some of the different angles that started popping up. I am happy to announce however, that after a full year, my CR-10 Max is finally operational and I'm currently printing off the new chest and back. But, regarding the clam shell biceps, I would argue to keep the one piece design available for level 1 certification. My reasoning is that even with the clam shells, the look they're attempting to emulate is a single piece design. Ultimately, you're looking at bicep armor that has cover strips on either side that exist to hide the seams. Now, on the shows, we've see the Velcro pop up a couple times as well as the strap that's designed to keep the shoulders from flapping around, but the intended look is a single piece. For the chest, I concur with all additions with the exception of "the recessed area is painted medium grey." I may have missed something in an earlier discussion, but how did we come up with this? To me it looks like the same color, but please let me know if I missed something. The other thing I agree/ disagree with (yes both 😆) is the method for closing the chest/ back joint. Magnets are awesome and what I intended to use on my ICAT costume, but after a couple still shots came out showing Velcro only, that's what I decided on: Then there's this one again: --EDIT-- I just noticed that this guy's bicep appears to be missing the inner piece, or it came disconnected. I think it's also probable that they didn't have some of the "stunt" actors wear them. I just went through a bunch of the stills and noticed that some are wearing them and others aren't. It looks like the guys who get closer shots, or aren't doing a lot of moving are wearing the entire bicep. Peeps swinging batons and getting tossed around appear to only be wearing the outer shell. 🤔 🤷‍♂️ We can talk more about this after the back armor. Sounds like a good plan

All, I thought post again with a couple examples, because I'm not sure I explained it good enough yesterday. Basically, what we've seen in the anthology movies and Disney + shows are some good lessons' learned from previous iterations of LFL costumes. The examples I point to almost immediately are the studio's use of shore 00 urethane material with medium-hard levels of flexibility, armor that is vacuum cast vice the more traditional vacuum formed, and additions, such as the two part (flex opening) biceps that are designed to hang from the shoulders. Items such as these all contribute to longer lasting costume pieces (that can be recycled and turned into other kits) and offer a greater deal of comfort and flexibility to the actors. Yes, we still have examples where the costume manufacturers likely rushed out a couple brittle cast sets in order to fill a large order for background characters, but for the most part, we keep finding pieces being used through various characters and honestly, why mess with a good thing. So, with that said, I'm not here to encourage peeps to buy one maker's kit over another, but rather offer up suggestions so everyone can make informed decisions. First, David pointed out Andor's split bicep, which I kind of explained a little bit, but here's a better explanation: The flexible cords likely snapped prior to this shot. If you look at the pic again, you can kind of see how the inside portion of the bicep is still there, but it kind of slid down around his elbow. My guess is that the Velcro holding the other side did it's job, but with the framilon (TPU) cords failing, this was left to flop around and the crew likely didn't notice until after the shot. Just a guess, but having seen these things up close, that's what makes sense to me. Next, here's some pics of my ROTK armor which uses the same bicep and hanging device: Next is the bicep armor I intend on using for my Ferrix trooper which shows the two halves: Anyways, I just wanted to amplify what I was trying to explain yesterday. When we actually start covering the arms, I'll post a little more.

Yes, these use the same back boxes as the Shorey, but the bottom of the armor is a much different shape. Regarding Casian Andor’s bicep armor, I believe this was a one-off instance. If you look at that pic, you can see that Diego Luna’s armor doesn’t fit him the same as the others. I believe this is just due to his size since he's a pretty lean guy. So, there may be a reason why they neglected to have him wear the inner piece of the bicep armor; my guess is comfort. However, with that said, these type biceps are two pieces that are held together with stretchable cords. The stuff they used on set is called Framilon, which is made out of TPU. They’re the very same ones worn by the Shoretroopers and New Generation TKs. If this were to be added as a requirement, I would suggest using the verbiage from the Shoretrooper or Rogue One TK CRL, but honestly, I don’t see anything wrong with the single piece biceps. Maybe the two part construction can be used for level 2.

Ok... Chest armor. So here we go. We all know and understand that Lucasfilm has a habbit of recycling armor parts, e.g. the Shoretrooper armor turns into AT-ACT & Tanker armor, which shares pieces with the Deathtrooper, which has stormtooper parts. Additionally, we saw the Mudtrooper turn into the ICAT Driver, then the Mudtrooper/ ICAT turns into the Imperial Army Trooper. It's just part of the production evolution; each of them share items from each other: So, I post the CRL pictures of the Shorey, Deathtrooper, Muddy and ICAT driver, then follow that up with the screen caps of the Army trooper for a couple reasons: 1. to show the natural progression of armor in the shows and how it's been reused multiple times, 2. to show that THERE ARE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE ARMOR SETS (despite what's been stated all too frequently, you cannot use a Shoretrooper back piece for this costume, and 3. to explicitly state that we have to get this right; we've unfortunately done the "close enough" thing too many times. The wonderful thing about the Shoretrooper armor, and now our Andor armor, is that it uses found parts, especially on the back, but we'll get to that eventually. For now, let's focus on the chest. SPOILER ALERT... if the chest is constructed correctly, you have no other option but to do the back correctly as well. Let's discuss. I spoke (chatted) with @Bozzy a few months ago about his chest armor modifications. Initially, there was some concern about the slope that the chest takes from the collar area down to the front of the chest. Most makers, including the original files from Sean Fields and Chris's remix had a very abrupt slope instead of the gradual downwards slope that looks more natural. First I'll show my current armor then follow that up with some more accurate shots: My current Mudtrooper/ ICAT Correct slope shown on the Hot Toys ICAT Driver figure: My current Aldhani Trooper Chest: Correct Slope on Aldhani. Please disregard the arrows, that's for something else. So, regarding the slope, I understand that most armor makers aren't going to make this change. We're talking about approximately a current 45 degree slope versus a correct 55-60 degree slope, but if you think about it, this does shorten the flat section on the front. First, my current Aldhani armor chest: And the screen used gear: Not much different, but it's there. Again, makers likely aren't going to change their molds/ bucks, and that's fine because it's negligible, but here's one that stands out like a sore thumb and cannot be overlooked: Notice how the armor swoops at the chest/ back connection point? This isn't a one-off as it can be seen several times. This is just the most prominent, but it was also visible on Aldhani: Again, if the chest is constructed correctly, you can't just use any back armor. The swoop is definitely apparent on the front and back, but even without it, your chest is significantly taller than a Shore or Deathtrooper, so your back won't line up. Case in point, please see what happened to one of my friends when a maker sent him a Shoretrooper back to be used with his ICAT chest: There's way too many modifications needed in order to make this right. Please reach out to your vendor prior to ordering your armor to ensure they're not recycling parts. Regardless, for Andor, the producers/ costume department clearly made use of current designs as I pointed out earlier. This is indeed the same design as the mudtrooper kit, but knowing that Lucasfilm has been utilizing FBFX for current armor builds, and the company essentially started from the ground up on a lot of them, my guess is that they improved on the original design as part of their casting process. As was seen with their Vader design for Kenobi, the company is very respectful of the legacy designs, but definitely improved on pieces where it made the most sense. Personally, my biggest gripe with this armor set is the yoke/ collar (which I spoke about in the Aldhani thread) but I've heard other people complain about this chest/ back joint. Specifically, for people who aren't exactly 6' 170 lbs, this can be a bit of an annoyance, but I will say that I've left troops with a couple bruises where these pieces meet. For actors who are going to be wearing this for hours on end, it makes sense to add a relief. Ultimately, the chest/ back connection point has a large visible swoop which extends from the base of the chest up to the bottom of the back armor; it is not a straight connection. This needs to be annotated to ensure the accuracy of the costume and to keep makers from short-cutting their designs which inevitably end up on our CRLs. Again, other than the Deathtrooper armor I shared earlier, each of these armor sets should have IDENTICAL back box greeblies which are known parts. Having significant variances in our CRLs when the screen caps are readily available kind of makes us look silly.

I agree with the wording. Good job guys. Reference the rank bars, there's absolutely nothing definitive there. Also, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall seeing any bars on anyone's shoulder bells either which would somewhat disqualify the rank bar placement on the tunic. I honestly don't care either way because it's unseen, but in the absence of definitive proof of it's existence, I think we should probably leave it off. Regarding the pants, I will agree that the thigh patch is a lot longer than what's been done previously, i.e. mudtrooper, but maybe we should delineate just how far it goes down so that we don't have anyone rocking "shin reinforcement patches." From the few caps I can find, the patch appears to be just below the knee cap; nearly inline with the bottom edges of the "T" on the knee plate. It does not appear to go below the upper ledge of the boots. Also, I know we're not talking about boots right now, but I'm throwing this out there as a "placeholder" for future conversation (so I don't forget): we need to ensure we identify the boots as German Navy Sea Boots, not simply jack boots. The sea boots are a variant of jack boots, but include the distinctive rear flap and buckle. Common Jack Boots do not have these accessories. You guys are awesome

So we're at the tunic and pants. This is what I've been waiting for. This is a great point. Yes, it's pointing back to the helmet, but I again want to caution everyone on relying on anecdotal evidence when determining the construction of these costumes. As we've seen time and time again with the LFL costume department, what one trooper wears may be light years away from what another wears. I always go back to the ANH "stunt" versus "hero" costumes, or even more recently, please refer to my post from May 6th where I pointed out the grey boots worn by our incredible New Generation TKs. With that said, we do believe the Aldhani troopers received "repurposed" Ferrix armor, but that's about it. Ryan is incredibly correct with regards to the helmet, chest, back, shoulders and biceps, but these soft parts APPEAR to be entirely different with regards to fabric selection. The word "APPEAR" is a trick we use in air traffic control. It indicates that I see something, but I don't take responsibility for it. fb501 posted a great closeup shot of the Aldhani hat and I've seen the LFL photos that clearly show a bull denim weave, so for Aldhani, we're set. However, everything I can see in the Ferrix shots shows a canvas material; specifically a waxed canvas, or what my professional textile artist/ seamstress/ mom called, "Oilskin." After doing some research and reviewing the caps, I tend to agree with her. Let me post the pics again. First, I want to point out the crisp smooth texture of the fabric which is totally void of any weave. I can go into the specifics of what makes duck cloth/ canvas what it is, but if this were a denim material, we would be seeing the fabric behave much differently in every picture we have of it. Additionally, I want to point out how the canvas has distinctly different color creases which is a natural result of the fabric's oils/ wax bending and moving with the actors. One thing that leads me to believe this is in fact waxed canvas is how easy it is to brush off the creases and "reform" the fabric between takes. Additionally, though a simple boot brush can be used to clean up any messes on oilskin, heavier pressure such as from an industrial sewing machine's presser foot would leave very distinct lines on every stitch. You wouldn't always notice them, but you definitely can in this pic. Here's a few pics of the demo I did using 12oz waxed canvas. Bear with me, I posted these previously: Again, though you would initially think "waxed" means a heavy greasy fabric, it's far from it. The wax just gives the canvas a waterproof property and adds character as it's worn. In these pics, you see first, what it looks like naturally, then what happens once you crinkle it up. Notice how the creases are a different color, but also, notice how even after bunching it up, the canvas still remains crisp and in place. The next pic shows a black bull denim that I waxed. The big difference here is coloration that shows no variation. This is due entirely to the same color thread being used in the warp and weft of the canvas. Yes, Aldhani showed slight variation in coloring, but what appears to be color variations, can likely be attributed to the dyeing process. With Ferrix, the only variations we see in the color are due to the creasing and wear. If this were bull denim again, that either wouldn't be present, or the creases would look entirely different, similar to what I'm showing above. So, what if we ignore the whole oilskin/ waxed canvas argument altogether and just go with canvas versus denim weave? The same thing would happen. If this were regular black denim, you would see a color variation from the different weft being used in the textile process. If it were black bull denim, the colors wouldn't play well with the cameras and both denims would react differently to the actor's movements. With canvas, you would still see the fabric behaving similarly to what we see, but wouldn't have the same creasing action you see in the screen caps. Next, I would like to point out that at this point in our discussion, we APPEAR to have just as many Aldhani pictures as we do Ferrix. Though I agree with Ryan's assessment from the beginning of my post, and though the armor is pretty much identical (even though it's not) please keep in mind that these are two totally different costumes. Personally, I think it's a stunt vs. hero thing, but I'll point out the differences in armor when we get there. 😜 Anyways, here's a few caps just to show some fabric closeups: Again, please note how the only variations in coloring are present around stitch lines and creases. Additionally, we do not see anything clearly showing a weave in the fabric. Just seeing how the fabric behaves, and given my experience working with this fabric, I would fully argue against this being any sort of denim. For basic approval, I would go so far as to say "plain weave black cotton fabric, similar to duck canvas," and for level 2 I would add "appearing to be waxed canvas/ oilskin." Of course, people can optionally wax their own costume using fabric wax and a brush, or just weather it appropriately. I would highly encourage the wax; there's plenty of videos online showing how to do this. Here are my preferred tools.