Flametrooper CRL Work

[Scubacat[TX]]

So excited for all of this!

[jsin238[501st]]

Here's my KB PROPS flametrooper armor all done 🔥

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jsin238[501st]]

Great shot with my flamethrower I feel so naked without the back pack

 

[Griffin-X[501st]]

Great shot with my flamethrower I feel so naked without the back pack

 

 

That costume looks pretty amazing Jason. You really did a great job on it. I've also hooked you up with 501st Spec Ops access on the forum. Good to have you on board with us here at Spec Ops!

[camprandall[501st]]

Ok, now that I've gotten through 98% of this, I'm taking another pass at some clarifications in some areas. I'll make my notes in orange and my suggested changes in green. I don't pretend to know the proper semantics to use so it's more of a suggestion as I expect it needs to be adjusted. I also don't know exactly where first level approval should be so it's possible some of this shouldn't be required.

 

 

Helmet

For 501st approval:

• The helmet is gloss white with black trim
  
• The lens is smoky gray in color and must be sufficiently dark enough to obscure the costumer's eyes
  
• A pair of silver aerator/mic tip are present on either side of the chin.
  
• There is a black groove above the brow.
  
• There are two thin, thin black grooves near the frown that circumnavigate the helmet. The lower groove contains a black parallelogram on either side of the helmet.
  
• A thicker black groove circumnavigates the lower part of the helmet from the outer edge of each aerator.
  

 

Neckseal

For 501st approval:

• Black with horizontal ribs, fitted to the wearer, and extending from the base of the neck to conceal the entire neck. No hair or skin should be visible around the neck area
  

 

Chest Plate

For 501st approval:

• The chest plate overlaps the abdominal plate
  
• The center-top of the chest plate contains a recessed, black groove.
  
• There is a right-angle indentation on either side of the groove.
  
• There are two wings that attach beneath the lower section of the chest plate on either side.
  

 

Back

 

This maybe should be re-worded since they don't actually look like rivets or Chicago screws and it probably shouldn't matter if they are actual hardware. Most of us are using resin pieces that look almost identical to the prop but aren't functional. Here's my recommendation (or something like it that is maybe less wordy).

 

For 501st approval:

• There must be visible seams where the back plate attaches to the front plate behind the shoulder with two screw-like heads on each side on the back-plate side of the seam.
  

 

Shoulder Bells

For 501st approval:

• One on each shoulder.
  
• The shoulders are considered effectively symmetrical. They may be worn interchangeably on the left and right shoulders.
  
• Shoulders have small round extension at the top under the bell itself that butts up against the chest plate.
  

 

Biceps

For 501st approval:

• Biceps have visible seams on the front and rear. Black material may be present between the seams.
  

 

Elbow Gaskets

For 501st approval:

• Gaskets shall be rubber or a shiny black material with ridges
  
• The elbow gaskets must cover all exposed areas between the bicep and forearm
  

 

Forearms

 

I might tweak it/rearrange it this way so that it doesn't sound like there are two boxes on each forearm. I also think we should mention the seam and gap since the FO TK doesn't have them.

• 
   
  

For 501st approval:

• Forearms shall have a box on the bottom the wrist end. Each box shall have a single black square in the lower inside corner.
  

• Forearms shall have have ridged rail, similar to a picatinny, embedded on the inside of the forearm, roughly covered 1/3rd by the box.
  

• Detail box includes a black rectangle on small edge perpendicular and closest to wrist.
  

• Forearms must have a visible seam along the outside of the forearm, with roughly a 1 cm recessed gap.
  

• Forearms must have a visible seam along the inside of the forearm.
  

 

Gloves/Hand Plates

 

I'm just recommending we use the exact same wording as the FO TK since I believe they are identical and this would be more consistent.

• 
   
  

For 501st approval:

• Are black with white palm, thumb and forefinger.
  

• Extend underneath the forearm.
  

• White area is made from leather or leather-like material.
  

• Handplates are rigid square boxes and the hand plates are mounted securely over the back of the glove.
  

• The black oval detail is aligned with the index finger of each hand.
  

 

Abdomen Section

 

I'm recommending combining these two sections because based on the text, it's not clear that the belt goes over the abdomen.

 

For 501st approval:

• The abdomen section must wrap around the wearer's body.
  
• The abdomen consists of two separate sections: the upper plate, and the lower plate which rests beneath the belt.
  
• The upper section has a half-moon downward curved opening at the bottom-middle of the plate , a half moon upward curved recessed area at the top of the plate, and two vertical grooves on either side.
  

• The belt is ribbed and made from a rubber or a rubber like material.
  
• There are 2 horizontal boxes on the front, on each side of the center. They are painted white on the outside half and black on the inside half.
  
• There is a large vertical white pouch with a cover behind the left side of the wearer.
  

 

Codpiece

For 501st approval:

• The codpiece sits below the abdomen and under the belt and has a recessed rectangular areas on either side.
  

 

Posterior Armor

For 501st approval:

• The posterior armor sits below the abdomen and under the belt and has a rectangular recessed area along the top center.
  

 

Undersuit

 

I expanded this because there are actually a number of areas, such as the torso, where the undersuit shows quite a bit.

 

For 501st approval:

• An undergarment must be worn such that all areas not covered by gaskets or armor shows a black material. The black material may be shiny or matte.
  

 

Thighs

For 501st approval:

• Two flaps rest independently on the back of the thigh below the posterior and above the thigh armor.
  
• There are seams on the inside and outside of the thighs.
  
• The right thigh (to the wearer) includes a band of black elastic, approximately 1 1/2 inches wide, that contains 3 black capsules.
  
• The right thigh contains a horizontal series of seamless boxes above the knee.
  
• The right thigh has a small knee plate attached with a small gap of black material approximately 1 cm in width.
  
• The left thigh has a larger knee plate attached with two black angled rectangular notches above it.
  

 

Knee Gaskets

 

For 501st approval:

• Gaskets shall be rubber or a shiny black material with ridges.
  
• The knee gaskets must cover all exposed areas between the thigh and shin.
  

 

Shins

For 501st approval:

• There are seams on the inside and outside of the shins.
  
• The wearer's left outside shin includes two vertical thin boxes that are seamless. QUESTION: Do we know for sure it's seamless? That seems unnecessary to me and might even be inaccurate.
  

 

Spats

For 501st approval:

• The spats are in two pieces that wrap around the front and back of the ankle with a small gap between them.
  
• The spats are attached to a black material that covers the top portion of the boots.
  

 

Boots

 

Again here, largely for consistency and precedent, I feel like we should just use the same text as the existing FO TK CRL.

 

For 501st approval:

• ANH/ESB TK boots are allowed.
  

• If other boots are used:
  

• 
  The boots are above ankle height and made of white leather or leather-like material.
  

• 
  There is a seam down both sides of the front that swoops out to the side of the foot.
  

• There is a vertical zipper on the inside that spans the height of the boot.
  

• There is a black flat sole with no heel.
  

• No buckles or laces.
  

Fuel Pack

For 501st approval:

• The pack consists of a rectangular rounded frame, two large tanks, and one smaller tank in between the larger tanks.
  

• There is a smaller thinner tank behind the three main tanks that connects to the regulator at the top and the bottom of 4 white hoses that also connect at the top.
  
• The large right tank and the smaller middle tank both contain red, circular recessed areas in the top and bottom domed sections. NOTE: I changed this to not say LEDs because I can't think of other times where we actually require using real electronics for this sort of thing.
  
• The top dome of the middle tank is painted black.
  
• All three tanks are contained in a black horizontal harness.
  
• To the right of the middle tank is a small rectangle box that contains “OII†on its face. The top of the box has a black antenna.
  
• At the top of the frame is a fuel gauge and four white tubes that extend from the left and right of the regulator down to the bottom of the unit, behind the middle tank. NOTE: I'm not sure if we actually know where exactly these tubes connect yet or not, but you can't see the connection anyways.
  

 

Optional Accessories

Items below are optional costume accessories. These items are not required for approval, but if present appear as described below.

 

 

First Order Flamethrower

 

For 501st approval:

• Details to be painted black and white per reference photos.
  
• The flamethrower connects to the bottom of the fuel pack with a black mesh hose using a silver colored connector.
  

[DeadMan]

Tube connections:

Not great pics, but good enough to see where things are going.

 

These first two pictures show the inside tubes coming off the loop and connecting to the top of the inside tank.

 

 

These two pictures, although harder to tell, show the tubes connecting to the small under-tank on each side. I'll keep looking for better ones.

[camprandall[501st]]

Thanks, these are real helpful. I'll get it somewhere close to this.

[Jeditid[501st]]

One thing to note is that that 4th cylinder - at the rear does NOT connect to the overflow at the bottom. It stops about 2/3 of the way down and there is a gap. This is shown on the toy's backplate for the 12" figure. You can see in Rob's photos above that it doesnt connect all the way down.

 

Unfortunately if you put this in be aware that MLC fibreglassing tanks wont clear as they connect. He was informed of this by me and made them like this based on a "wikipedia" look up of how Flamethrowers worked ??

 

Maybe this should be in Level 2 or 3 classification??

[camprandall[501st]]

One thing to note is that that 4th cylinder - at the rear does NOT connect to the overflow at the bottom. It stops about 2/3 of the way down and there is a gap. This is shown on the toy's backplate for the 12" figure. You can see in Rob's photos above that it doesnt connect all the way down.

 

Unfortunately if you put this in be aware that MLC fibreglassing tanks wont clear as they connect. He was informed of this by me and made them like this based on a "wikipedia" look up of how Flamethrowers worked ??

 

Maybe this should be in Level 2 or 3 classification??

 

Yeah, not sure of this kind of detail. I will eventually make mine a bit more accurate, but I certainly don't want to chop it up right now if I can avoid it. I suppose we need a call from Todd on that one. I personally think it doesn't change the look of it much at all so it shouldn't block approval, but tough to say. It's also something that is never really seen on film. It reminds me of the differences in E-11s where some have coils and some don't. The gun looks really authentic, but there are some details that make it more accurate.

[Darth Emphatic[CMD-DWM]]

I'd want a corroborating source with the action figure before I'd say it was an absolute requirement.

[camprandall[501st]]

I'd want a corroborating source with the action figure before I'd say it was an absolute requirement.

 

I think what's tricky is that the real pics confirm it's not full length, but they don't clearly lay out exactly what the pieces look like. The back and inside of the pack is just tricky territory to be too specific about I think. If you look at the few packs people have built, I think they all look pretty good and give an accurate "feel". Given that it's a complex accessory with a lot of hard to see parts, I think a little flexibility here is a good thing.

[Jeditid[501st]]

I agree Clint. No one has a photo of anything close to the screen used tanks and the rear of the tanks. In fact the two suits we do have photos of themselves are different and one has a different lower brace. So in terms of accuracy we only have the toys for representations on what was behind the tanks.

 

Even on sizing it's difficult as there is nothing to scale from that is consistent. The photos show larger tanks - like mine - the diecast toys from Disney show smaller like Clints - it's all perspective and we dont have anything giving us accurate measurements - so it's a little best guess isnt it?

 

I'm with you on making the CRL flexible in certain areas, and would ask that if we're to go for true screen accuracy (or as much as we know) we allow that to happen on the upgrade program for Spec Ops.

 

It's a bit like a sandie's back pack - it's a karrimor frame if you can get one - but most don't and still are able to clear.

 

Over to you guys.

 

Point of interest what is holding up a CRL going for approval now guys ? I'm hoping to get cleared before November 22nd for our big MCM ComicCon in Birmingham - and am putting armour together now. I'm expecting to be there by the end of September for photos for clearance ?? any thoughts ??

[camprandall[501st]]

Mark, I've got a photographer coming to take pics of all the parts on Saturday so between getting those prepped and then the detachment leaders polishing and finalizing the wording, hopefully it will get done pretty quick here.

[Jeditid[501st]]

woo hoo !

[toddo[TX]]

I think you guys have some great points. I will update the CRL draft with some of this language ASAP. As for the tanks, I think there is a ton of detail there, and we can get really bogged-down on that. I think MEPD handles this pretty well in that the description is intentionally vague. I put in the detail on the LEDs because it is clearly seen on screen, and if one examines the ESB and ROTJ Vader CRLs, LEDs are certainly mentioned. I'm ok moving those to Level II much like most of the detail on the pack.

 

Remember that the point of the CRL is not to create a strict bullet-point list of every detail we can find, but rather to supply a guide for our GMLs to judge the standards of costumes. I'm seeing the CRL drafts for some of the newer costumes, and it is overly detailed IMHO for basic approval. Specialist is our Level II, and we can certainly expand on those details in the CRL later to up the game for those who reflect the highest standard.

 

As for the CRL, now that we have some discussion going, it won't be long guys.

[toddo[TX]]

OK, I made some adjustments to the CRL draft that I think reflect the majority of the proposed changes. Let me know what you guys think.

[Darth Emphatic[CMD-DWM]]

 

Point of interest what is holding up a CRL going for approval now guys ? I'm hoping to get cleared before November 22nd for our big MCM ComicCon in Birmingham - and am putting armour together now. I'm expecting to be there by the end of September for photos for clearance ?? any thoughts ??

 

The biggest thing, which is in progress, are costume overall and parts photos. The crl has been solid for a while, but the costume work has needed to catchup and now we are very very close.

[Jeditid[501st]]

just the bit about LED's that all ? just means adding electronics to the kit - which I'll need to go back and retro fit.

[camprandall[501st]]

just the bit about LED's that all ? just means adding electronics to the kit - which I'll need to go back and retro fit.

 

I don't mind putting LEDs in my kit at some point, but since they don't always have to be on, I don't think they should be required as part of the base level CRL. We don't require them for the FO TK blasters. If it needs to stay in, that's fine but I'll need to order parts and cut the tank open before taking CRL pics. I believe that would be the last thing I need to do, but I won't be able to get the stuff and do that kind of surgery by the weekend.

[toddo[TX]]

I think that many times the LEDs will hardly be visible in daylight conditions. Given that, I think we can move that to a level 2 requirement. Will do gents.

[camprandall[501st]]

I think that many times the LEDs will hardly be visible in daylight conditions. Given that, I think we can move that to a level 2 requirement. Will do gents.

 

Ok, sounds good.

 

So Todd, what did you use for the LEDs and covers? Is this in a thread somewhere? I'd still like to do it at some point.

[Darth Emphatic[CMD-DWM]]

Agreed on LED level 2.

[toddo[TX]]

Ok, sounds good.

 

So Todd, what did you use for the LEDs and covers? Is this in a thread somewhere? I'd still like to do it at some point.

 

I used luxeon leds that one would use in a lightsaber. I used one in each lit tube. The lighting bled through thin spots in the fiberglass, so I just lined as much of the inside of the tube with foil. That blocks light transmission where I don't want it and helps to reflect the light to the windows. For the windows I didn't have any red plastic handy, so I spray-painted some clear plastic I had laying around. I'm having trouble attaching images currently, but I'm working on that.

[Griffin-X[501st]]

Just testing the image issue:

 

[toddo[TX]]

Ok, now that I'm able to post images again, I made a short thread detailing how I added LEDs to my pack. http://forum.specops501st.com/index.php?/topic/4348-toddos-flametrooper-mods/