Death Trooper - Boots

[DHKnecht]

8 minutes ago, IcyTrooper said:

If you meet the requirements of L1 and the two bullet point of L2 then it is good for L2. There is nothing in the text about the rivet head, thus it wouldn't be something that we even bring up in a L2 application. I'm also not seeing anything about pads in the L1 or L2 text.

I didn't mean to imply that the rivet head was a requirement anywhere on the boots.  I was using that example discussed above in the split-rivets used on the TK Centurion.  I'm with you IcyTrooper.  The CRL has the specs for Lvl 2, and if you have the visible stitching and pull tab identical to the Jered, that should be enough for Lvl 2.  The unseen padding around the ankle that is hidden by the shin shouldn't matter.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

1 minute ago, DHKnecht said:

I didn't mean to imply that the rivet head was a requirement anywhere on the boots.  I was using that example discussed above in the split-rivets used on the TK Centurion.  I'm with you IcyTrooper.  The CRL has the specs for Lvl 2, and if you have the visible stitching and pull tab identical to the Jered, that should be enough for Lvl 2.  The unseen padding around the ankle shouldn't matter.

I see what you mean now, I wasn't following at first. I may be wrong but I think the reason that the Jered's were on there is because that was what was used on-screen; hopefully someone can clarify or correct that for me.

[nanotek[CMD-DWM]]

On 12/16/2020 at 10:56 AM, Jayse01 said:

Ok, so if you are going for above L1, then Jered or IB boots are what you would need. However would any boot with a flat sole be ok?

Just as long as no heel. 

It would also come down to the $s spent to replicate the correct style boot, which is a hard find if we are talking Jereds or talib boots. And then to find in your size. 

Im all for making kits as close to the screen used. However if your just looking for a L1 kit, I would think some sway would need to be included, considering that Jereds are no longer in production. 

Again this does come down to the DL and GML. 

Im using an 850 armour with a prop makers helmet. The boots seem to be my MAJOR problem. And even more so now that IB has closed all shipping till 2021. 

A GML will try to interpret between the text and the picture in the CRL. We cannot comment too much further on this because every GML is different and often overlook certain details. If the boots are a close match to the CRL picture and L1 text you should be ok.

L2 text in blue, is Jereds or replica like the IB version. I don't see why you're asking for "sway" when it's already given...

[nanotek[CMD-DWM]]

24 minutes ago, DHKnecht said:

To Detachment Staff:

You might be opening a can of worms here.  If the padded part of the boots that is unseen becomes a requirement for Level 2, then what about the "corset" style of the abdomen/back plate?  or the metal shoulder/side buckles?  or how the shoulder bells attach?  There really could be an endless discussion of detail that only the maker would know is there, and there is no real consensus on what strapping and attachment is accurate.  If we later find out that no velcro was used anywhere, and it was all snaps and buckles, will we have to redo all of that?  Is that what Level 2 is all about, or is it more for accurate *visible* detail?  Personally, I'd stick with Chaos statement that it is only what is actually seen and visible, rather than what is underneath.

As to the boots, Jereds and the replica "Killer" boots from Imperial Boots both fit the bill of course.  If you want to modify a Mayer or Talib (or other boot) so that visible details are identical to the Jered, then that should be good too.  Otherwise, people will be spending money buying new boots or modifying something that no one will see.

If you bring in the "split rivet" discussion, the argument there is that the rivet head can be seen, and using the right type of rivet adds to the level of detail (even if you have to show an unseen area to prove it's the right type of rivet).  yes, that might be splitting hairs, but at least it's a distinction.

 

I don't believe there is any can of worms here. What becomes level 2 is an open discussion with the detachment based on evidence. If everyone concurs that hidden things are part of a L2 or even L3 then so be it. L1 is achieving the overall look, the higher levels are going for the accuracy. 

So in short, if we start finding things that are essentially hidden, but know that they exist, can prove they exist and everyone agrees that they should be part of the higher levels, then cool. Otherwise it doesn't make it into the CRL and is just something extra we know about the costumes.

 

As a side note, not directing this at anyone, just a general "all social announcements" thing:

I think everyone can agree that there is plenty more work to go on this CRL. CRL's are never set in stone and development will always be ongoing and open for discussion, but it also requires work and participation in the development. A significant amount of work was done on getting it to this level (a long way from where it began) and there is still room for improvement. If you want to be involved, be prepared to work and put in the time. We bring people in and out of CRL teams all the time, but you have to highly active on the forums as a prerequisite.

 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

@DHKnecht Noted.  Thanks for the feedback. I would add though this was much more than a staff decision...the CRL proposal was presented to membership many months ago and this was never mentioned.  We did discuss at length the corset.  Internal construction isnt something we typically require.  I think we all agree on that.

Where we may diverge is how we view these boot details.  I (and it sounds like @Chaos as well) don’t necessarily view them as internal construction as in “how is the costume held together” but rather as details (though I will agree with you...obscure details) on the part.

I would liken it to the belt drop boxes on a Centurion approved TK (which I have done).  The backs are rarely if ever seen.  But there is a requirement for the backs.  And those crotch snaps lol.  To me, the padding on the boot and the tab (both of which could be visible if the shins ride up) fall into that same category.

Here at Spec Ops we dont utilize L3. For us L2 encompasses all additional details past L1.  Just clarifying that as to why these arent L3 details here.

Finally, if you are approved as a DT you should never be asked to go back and fix details to maintain your approval.  Only if you applied for Level 2 Specialist approval here would you possibly (more than likely...almost no applications clear on first pass) be asked to make adjustments to your costume.  But again that has no bearing on membership...and for me personally no bearing on how proud any builder should be of their final approved costume.

Thanks again for your feedback. CRLs are fluid and evolve over time. Who knows?  This one may as well in the future.  If you examine all of our CRL discussions (and we have had plenty the past 2-3 years) we always work them out in public and we always encourage members to get engaged in the process and help with the dirty work that is writing and maintaining these CRLs.  Hope all of this clarifies our general approach and specifically our take on the boots Level 2 requirements.

[Jayse01]

Thank you all for that feedback. 

As I just cant find a Jered in my size. I will go with the IB boots. Thankfully it is now the last item I need, so once they open I will order a pair. 

And I hope to have a submission within the next few months. Considering I will be taking my time to get it right before I submit. 

[nanotek[CMD-DWM]]

12 hours ago, Jayse01 said:

Thank you all for that feedback. 

As I just cant find a Jered in my size. I will go with the IB boots. Thankfully it is now the last item I need, so once they open I will order a pair. 

And I hope to have a submission within the next few months. Considering I will be taking my time to get it right before I submit. 

I think you've made a great choice, they are great boots, really comfortable and you don't have to modify them. I had to put some new insoles in because I have high arches, but they are really good shoe. I own two sets of Jereds and one IB, and I always go the IB. Next wave will be soon and they ship quickly!