Shadow Stormtrooper (Force Unleashed) CRL Proposal

[Janem[TX]]

Hey. Just came in and had a look at the topic. I agree with everybody else that we should leave the Lightsaber out for sure. Some thoughts about the armor itself:

- The casket around the edges of the armor would usually lead to the assumption that we havea a ROTJ based armor here. Did you use a ROTJ style Kit or a ANS/ESB style Kit? 

- The Handguards are ANH style,. Thats fine.  

- Maybe we should make a explicit statement, that the lenses are to be dark, but not too dark to cover the blue backlight?

- Also we should add that the Tube stripes are to be cut out like the teeth to make the lighting visible. 

- The belt should have the edges cut off like the RotJ Style Stormtrooper has. It is visible in this picture left from the saber: 

As it does not seems to be a 45 degree cut we should add: Corners of ammo Belt are cut a right angles. Not 45 degree as in ANH/ESB.

- We should add a more detailed explanation for the black stripe of the shoulder bells. For example: The color of the shoulder bells is grey with a broad, glossy, black stripe from the upper edge to the lower edge. The black stripe covers almost the whole shoulderbell, except a small sarea on the left and the right edge. 

These are some thoughts I havwe a bout the CRL. I think you have done a great Job with building the armor. So I hope my suggestions are not too bold.  

[Fivezero[TX]]

Hey thanks for the input! And no worries, anything to start the discussion! But most of the nitty gritty items above I was going to leave for Specialist requirements, but if want to add them in at the base level, I'm completely fine doing it.

Just to give some context/insight to my decisions, when I first started this build (and when it was approved) we didn't care too much about some of the nitty gritty stuff, hence why it's pretty simple and really only mentions what parts are which color and what parts need the blue lights. Also this thing was built from a bunch of spare parts so it's more of a Franken-kit. It has an RT-Mod chest with an FX back, AM style shoulders and ATA for everything else with some parts modified or outright made by myself. And the way I build things, I don't base them off any one style of kit (i.e. ANH or ROTJ), again just to give some insight into my particular build(s). Anyway to address Janem's points:

 

- As for the edge gasket, I really only put it on the chest and back (as you can see). The butt plate, outright doesn't have it at all. And it kind of looks like the kidney or ab/cod might have it in some pictures, but in other pictures it looks like a lighting glitch or something. I partly based this decision off of my EVO Trooper from the same game, which again only has it around the chest and back, so I left it off everything else on the Shadow Stormtrooper.  But what does everyone else think? Again I'm not in the camp of making it conform to one style of movie-based armor just based on a couple features.

- The statement about the lenses sounds great!

- As for the tube stripes that sounds great, maybe also add that the helmet (or specifically the face plate) can be made from clear plastic or if made from an opaque plastic it should have the teeth and tube stripes cut out for the lights (of course written better).

- For the belt, I propose something different (maybe have it be Level 2), how about a somewhat unique belt? In the picture below, it looks like there's actually a large curved cut at the bottom with a small 45° at the top. So how about straight cut for level 1 and the large curved cut for the bottom with a small angled cut at the top. What do you guys think? I'm also fine if we just want to adopt the cut at the basic level. I'll track down the 3D model (I should have it somewhere on my computer), and see if I can confirm this feature on the model.

 

- For the shoulder bells, how about instead we say the shoulder bells are clear (vs. gray) with a large black stripe. I don't want people to accidentally paint the area where the light shines through, otherwise I'm fine with adding some more detail to the text. And it shouldn't need any paint beyond the black, the light covers the area just fine. Also just to make sure we're on the same page, the bottom edge also has a tiny strip of lighting, not just solely the left and right edges.

 

So those are my thoughts regarding Janem's ideas, overall I like them! I'm very open to anything to improve my own build and the CRL.   I'm going to get the game reinstalled tonight and do some digging in regards to things like the belt and edge gaskets. Of course whatever we decide upon will guide my rebuild. So what does everyone else think? Let me know and I'll be happy to make changes to the text.

[Fivezero[TX]]

So I was able to find the 3D model (albeit with a low res texture) from the game for this trooper and took a look at the geometry of the model.

The belt face definitely has the curved cut at the bottom and the small 45° cut at the top. So the question is do we want to have it at the basic level, and have the correct cuts for Specialist? Also the actual belt around the back is significantly thinner than the belt face, while being mounted much higher than traditional belt placement. Again do we want it at basic or Specialist (i.e. regular sized belt at the basic level, thinner belt for Specialist).

And for the edge trim, it looks like the only the upper edge and sides of the ab plate has it modeled in (along with the chest and back). The kidney, butt and cod armor has just a flat edge with no raised geometry above the surface of the armor to look like the edge gaskets. So I propose we add it only for the ab plate (but not the cod) and the chest and back.

 

So let me know what you guys think of this and I'll write up a revised CRL.

[Janem[TX]]

Guys that's just great. Very cool to have the 3D Drawings and I already like the way our discussion develops.  

I like the Idea of this trooper having a unique belt. This way it will not only be a trooper in a different color with some fancy lighting but truly a uniqe kind od costume. My suggestion would be to make the Belt with the Cuts basic level as it is truely one thing that makes the armor different from all the others. The thinner belt would be lvl two. I also would recommend to add the holes on the back of the belt to lvl two. imo that would make perfect sense.

I also like the Idea of the shoulderbells being transparent. That would also be something very unique to the costume. And on the picture it sure lokks as if they are not painted with the same gray as the rest of the armor. 

As for the trimmed edge: This is clearly based on the RotJ armor. but I agree that on some parts they don't have the trimmed edges. We should make that also an must vor basic approval as this is unique, too. 

What do you think? 

[Fivezero[TX]]

Sounds good Janem, thanks for your thoughts and input! I rewrote the CRL last night, mostly focused around adding the new details. I also reworded much of the wording regarding the blue lights to add some clarity (hopefully). I also updated some of the terminology to bring them in line with other CRLs. So here's the next draft of the CRL with changes in red text, take a look and let me know if anything needs to be reworded or changed. I still need to add the level 2 text, I should be able to do that tonight.

 

Helmet

For 501st approval:

• Lenses must be sufficiently dark enough to obscure the costumer's eyes. They may be flat or bubbled. Blue lighting shines around and on to the lenses.
• The body of the "ears" is metallic silver. The bars have three or four bumps and are dark gray in color.
• The frown must have 8 teeth cut out. Blue lighting shines through the spaces between the teeth.
• The tube stripes may number between 9 and 15 per side with the curve bends extending backwards. Blue lighting shines through the tube stripes. If helmet is not made from clear plastic, the tube stripes must be cut out to allow the light to shine through.
• Vocoder (vertically ribbed chin detail) is black.
• The aerators (cylinders on either side of the vocoder) are black, and screening is silver.
• Traps (trapezoids on dome of helmet) and tears (area beneath the corners of eye lenses) may be hand painted or decals and are dark gray in color. Rear traps and tears have vertical black lines.
• Note: The helmet is accurate in detail and proportion to official references.
• Many commercially available helmets or those considered disproportionate in size or shape are ineligible.

Neck Seal

For 501st approval:

• Black with horizontal ribs, fitted to the wearer, and extending from the base of the neck to the top of the Adam's apple.

Shoulder Straps

For 501st approval:

• These must be securely mounted in front and may free float in back.
• The shoulder straps are metallic silver in color

Shoulder Armor

For 501st approval:

• One on each shoulder. The shoulder bells are considered effectively symmetrical; they may be worn interchangeably on the left and right shoulders.
• The shoulder bells are constructed of clear plastic with a broad gloss black stripe covering much of the shoulder bell.
• The shoulder bells have broad blue lighting that shines through the sides of the shoulder bell and a thin strip of blue lighting that shines through the bottom edge of the shoulder bell.

Upper Arm Armor

For 501st approval:

• Biceps are fully closed.
• Biceps are metallic silver in color.

Forearm Armor

For 501st approval:

• Forearms must appear to be fully sealed and enclosed.
• Forearms are metallic silver in color and may be constructed of clear plastic or opaque plastic.
• Blue lighting shines through the top and bottom circumference and through the depressions along the top ridge. If the forearm is made from opaque plastic, the ridge depressions need to be cut to allow the light to shine through.

Handplates

For 501st approval:

• Roughly pentagonal in shape, the hand plates are mounted securely over the back of the glove. As an alternative to plastic, these may be made out of latex or latex-like material.
• The handplates are metallic silver in color.

Gloves

For 501st approval:

• Black in color made of rubber, nomex, leather, or leather-like material, with no visible straps or logos/designs. The fingers are enclosed, non-textured.

Chest Armor

For 501st approval:

• Chest plate overlaps the abdominal plate.
• The top of the chest plate is semi-gloss medium gray while the bottom is metallic silver in color.
• Blue lighting is present along the bottom edge and shines on to the abdominal plate.
• A metallic silver, flexible U-shaped gasket or molded lip is present around all edges.

Back Armor

For 501st approval:

• Back plate contains a "O II" design with little or no overlap of the kidney plate.
• Back plate is metallic silver in color.
• A metallic silver, flexible U shaped gasket or molded lip is present around all edges.

Under Suit

For 501st approval:

• ·         Black non-textured material, either one-piece or two-piece construction with no visible zippers or logos.

Abdomen Armor

For 501st approval:

• The abdomen armor is semi-gloss medium gray in color.
• The abdomen armor has a button area with 10 black buttons of approximately 7/16" in diameter.
• Abdomen armor button detail is inverted compared to ANH/ESB.
• A metallic silver, flexible U shaped gasket or molded lip is present around the sides and top of the abdomen plate, but does not extend around the cod plate.

Kidney Armor

For 501st approval:

• It is allowable to have a single kidney/posterior armor for 501st requirements. If a separate kidney plate is used, it should line up with the ab plate, with the top of the kidney plate being flush to or under the back plate.
• The kidney plate is metallic silver in color.

Posterior Armor

For 501st approval:

• ·         It is allowable to have a single kidney/posterior armor for 501st requirements. If a separate butt plate is used, it should line up below the bottom of the belt with the ab plate, with minimal gap between it and the kidney plate.
• ·         The butt plate is semi-gloss medium gray in color.

Belt

For 501st approval:

• ·         Belt face is made of plastic (ammo belt). It is comprised of 6 rectangular boxes, with two square buttons, one on each end.
• ·         On the ends of the belt face, there is a curved cut along the bottom edge and a small 45° cut at the top.
• ·         Belt proper is metallic silver and color and must be 3 to 3.5" wide and can be made with plastic or fabric in metallic silver.
• ·         Back of the belt has blue lighting that shines onto the posterior armor.
• ·         The drop boxes dangle from the sides of the plastic belt face via black straps and are aligned under the square button of the ammo belt. These are semi-gloss medium gray in color.

Thermal Detonator

For 501st approval:

• ·         (a.k.a. O2 canister) attaches to the back of the belt. This is a cylinder 2 to 2.5" in diameter with metallic silver end caps and a metallic silver control panel pad, with controls closest to the right end cap.
• ·         Blue lighting shines through the main cylinder body.

Thigh Armor

For 501st approval:

• The thigh armor may open and firmly close in the back allowing the two halves to appear sealed when viewed by spectators.
• The thigh armor is semi-gloss medium gray in color.
• The ammo belt is installed on the bottom of the right thigh and is metallic silver in color.
• The ammo belt has blue lighting behind it, shining on to the thigh.

Lower Leg Armor

For 501st approval:

• The shin armor is able to open and firmly close in the back allowing the two halves to appear sealed when viewed by spectators.
• The trapezoid knee plate is affixed to the top of the left shin and is metallic silver, with the central hexagon being semi-gloss medium gray. (a new detail that I may have found, see post below). 
• The shin armor is metallic silver in color.
• Blue lighting shines through and along the bottom edge of the armor.

Boots

For 501st approval:

• Dark gray leather or leather-like, above ankle height, with a flat sole, and small U-shaped elastic sections on both sides of the ankle with no buckles or laces. Jodphur-type boots or an equivalent style. All stitching must be dark gray, and unnecessary or decorative stitching must not be present. Elvis / Mariachi boots are not acceptable.
• A red stripe is present around the front of the boot.
• White or other color boots may be painted dark gray so long as the boots are maintained to remain the proper color.

[Fivezero[TX]]

So as I noted above in the draft, I think the center "hexagon" of the knee plate might be the semi-gloss gray vs. metallic silver like the rest of the shin and knee plate. It's something I noticed while I was looking over the reference pictures again. This center part doesn't quite shine like the silver does. The pictures below especially show what I'm thinking. What thoughts do we have about this? I'll try to get in game and take some new pictures around this potential detail.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

I cant tell colors well..but not just a shading issue u think to show depth?

The edits to the draft look good man. Great to see u on the grind again!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

I definitely agree that some of the very specific stuff could be L2 for it. The gaskets around everything like RoTJ makes sense because I believe a lot of the video game characters follow that. Some of the other detachments have the ability to go L2 tied to RoTJ armor specifically and allow ANH/ESB to improve numbers...but I also see to keeping it unique and a challenge as well.

[Fivezero[TX]]

Unfortunately, got busy so didn't get a chance to get the level 2 stuff written out. But I did get the game downloaded and reinstalled, so I'll take a look at this trooper in-game tomorrow. Some of these details that I'm on the fence about will really jump when seeing the trooper in a dynamic environment vs. still pictures.

Just to clarify on the knee plate, I'm thinking that the whole front face might be gray, not just the recessed area below the ridge. It would look similar to the Novatrooper knee plates (without the ridges on the side being painted).  I'm still undecided on this detail as it's hard to tell, I'll see how it looks in-game and try to get some good shots of the knee plate before we make a decision on that.

[Fivezero[TX]]

Alright, fired up the game earlier and have some quick notes.

Concerning the knee plate, the front face/hexagon is definitely the medium gray instead of the silver like the rest of the shin armor. Screenshots below. What really sold me was the texture file from this trooper (did some digging around the game files). The front of the knee is clearly a different gray and matches the other armor parts that are gray.

Also took another look at the kidney, butt and cod armor, just to be sure. It looks like they both do lack the edge gaskets. It looks like it's a graphical glitch where the texture meets the edge of the 3D model, so I say we keep it off. The side and upper edge of the ab definitely has the trim though.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Ok guys, taking another look after having a staff chat.  Ty it looks like the L1 version of this will be lighted, and externally we can see the LED strip at the kidney.  Would an L2 version include clear components with appropriately non-painted areas to allow the blue glow to come from behind? 

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

@Fivezero that is a interesting texture for the knee plate, it is almost like they forgot ? I still see a raised edge on the cod piece, would have to be molded in (harder) or a gasket.

@Blackwatch that sounds good to me and makes it more feasible for others. Are we thinking of allowing this L1 as either ANH/ESB/ROTJ and then L2 would have to be ROTJ?

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Upon review it looks like the direction going forward is to have regular parts and let the glow from the LED strip do the work shining out from under parts vs. clear partially painted parts.  The suit built now has achieved the desired look when the LEDs are powered up. 

[Fivezero[TX]]

Woah, woah, we need to pump the brakes a little here. At least let me respond before a decision is made. I politely, but strongly disagree with that decision regarding the lights. This trooper needs two different lighting methods which consist of light that shine through armor in certain parts (helmet, shoulders, forearms, TD and shines) and lights that shine over armor. Just to be clear, my suit uses both of these methods to achieve an effect that matches in-game as closely as I could. This shine-through effect can be achieved using clear armor or in the case of the helmet, simply having the teeth and tube stripes cut out. But the parts in question absolutely need the lights to propagate from "within" the armor. Simply hiding a blue light underneath a solid shoulder bell won't give you the blue light you need underneath the black stripe. I tried it when I first started building it, and it looked terrible and I quickly moved on to trying other things.

We need to have both styles at Level 1 for this CRL. This is how this trooper was when I was approved with it. I completely understand that this will make this build harder for people in the future, but clear parts are a necessity even at the basic level. There is simply no other way to achieve the desired effect that matches the game. I am looking into ways to help people in the future more easily have access to clear armor (either by making and providing 3D print files, or forming my own clear parts for kits).

Regarding the photos I posted, ignore them. I've decided that those CRL photos are no good going forward, even as placeholder photos. We just need to wait until I get this trooper rebuilt and get new photos taken. I should have removed the LED strip for the kidney plate photo, but didn't for some reason. Please, please don't assume that because one piece of armor is lit one way, that they can all be lit with that method and match the trooper from the game.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

1 hour ago, Fivezero said:

Woah, woah, we need to pump the brakes a little here. At least let me respond before a decision is made. I politely, but strongly disagree with that decision regarding the lights. This trooper needs two different lighting methods which consist of light that shine through armor in certain parts (helmet, shoulders, forearms, TD and shines) and lights that shine over armor. Just to be clear, my suit uses both of these methods to achieve an effect that matches in-game as closely as I could. This shine-through effect can be achieved using clear armor or in the case of the helmet, simply having the teeth and tube stripes cut out. But the parts in question absolutely need the lights to propagate from "within" the armor. Simply hiding a blue light underneath a solid shoulder bell won't give you the blue light you need underneath the black stripe. I tried it when I first started building it, and it looked terrible and I quickly moved on to trying other things.

We need to have both styles at Level 1 for this CRL. This is how this trooper was when I was approved with it. I completely understand that this will make this build harder for people in the future, but clear parts are a necessity even at the basic level. There is simply no other way to achieve the desired effect that matches the game. I am looking into ways to help people in the future more easily have access to clear armor (either by making and providing 3D print files, or forming my own clear parts for kits).

Regarding the photos I posted, ignore them. I've decided that those CRL photos are no good going forward, even as placeholder photos. We just need to wait until I get this trooper rebuilt and get new photos taken. I should have removed the LED strip for the kidney plate photo, but didn't for some reason. Please, please don't assume that because one piece of armor is lit one way, that they can all be lit with that method and match the trooper from the game.

Point taken. I trust your assessment of that.  Regarding clear parts, I know of at least 1 vendor that makes them (WTF).

@Fivezero can you clarify something for me (because this is a carryover project from quite awhile ago)?  You mention having it "approved" but when I look up our CRL library on the Legion wiki, this only appears as "CRL In Progress" with no photos and states that it cannot be approved as of yet.  Was something missed in terms of CRL publishing by previous LMOs or by "approved" are you meaning something else?  I ask because there is nothing on my end that I can see showing it approved as a CRL yet.  Thanks!

[Darth Emphatic[CMD-DWM]]

The LMO can approve a specific costume and trooper without a finalized CRL. That happened a lot more in the past had not at much now. Ty is correct when he states his costume is 501st approved. 

 

Ty, I thought the crl was waiting on updated photos before being finalized. That's my recollection, but I could be way out of date on that. 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

32 minutes ago, Darth Emphatic said:

The LMO can approve a specific costume and trooper without a finalized CRL. That happened a lot more in the past had not at much now. Ty is correct when he states his costume is 501st approved. 

 

Ty, I thought the crl was waiting on updated photos before being finalized. That's my recollection, but I could be way out of date on that. 

So his costume is approved but not the CRL itself.  Am I understanding that right?

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

That's how I'm reading it.  Seems we have some more work to do here.  

[Fivezero[TX]]

Alright, I'm back. Sorry, I've been sick the last few days and I got exactly zero sleep last night. So if I sounded a bit agitated earlier, that's why, wasn't intentional. Wasn't expecting to see that this morning.

So to address the concerns, yes this trooper is approved for me and I can freely troop with it. If there's any doubt, here the link to my profile page.

https://www.501st.com/members/displaymember.php?userID=12879&costumeID=337

To expand on what Steve mentioned, the "New to the Legion" process used to go something like this. Finish the build, submit to LMO, wait to hear back and make changes if needed (my EVO Trooper in particular had some back and forth), then once approved by the LMO we would write the CRL, take pictures of the components and submit the finished CRL. If I recall correctly, we eventually started to send in the CRL text along with the initial submission (for me, started with the Novatrooper Sentinel and then the TFU Shadow). After the EVO, I decided to take pictures after the trooper was approved to avoid having to take more pictures and thus more editing if changes had to be made. For this trooper I was expecting the back and forth that accompanied the EVO Trooper, but there really wasn't any and the CRL text was eventually posted and we just needed the pictures. Life happened, and I forgot about it and parts broke and LEDs burned out, as well as coming up with new ideas, etc. Just to add some context. Now I understand, the process is different now, I was reading up on it the other day. We won't have this confusion with the Jumptrooper when it's ready to send in.

So initially I wanted to bring this trooper back in to the light to look at the getting the CRL finally finished up with photos. I initially wanted to use the existing photos as placeholders, but I've rethought that and we should just wait until I get this guy rebuilt.  I decided to take a look at the reference pictures and re-familiarize myself, saw some new things I missed years ago, and wrote up the new draft. Just want to make sure we're all on the same page. This one is a bit different than the usual process, you guys are probably used to.   Like I mentioned, I have no problem making changes or adding details and such, but the core of the CRL shouldn't need a whole lot right now.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Got it.  I'm on the same page now.  I'm much newer to this than you and simply going off my training from the Izzinator.  I learned something new and it's all cool.  And you're good...I didn't get any harsh tone.  So we are approaching this more as an "update" than a new CRL (even though what we do will green-light it finally).  Sound good all?

So with that said, your text edits seem on point to me.  I think the lighting placement clarifications are good because I can just imagine someone strapping LEDs all over and calling it a day.

What are your thoughts for Level 2?

[Fivezero[TX]]

Alright, glad we got that figured out. And yes that's exactly what it is, a CRL update essentially. When I shot you that message last week to get the ball rolling on this, I had no idea the new costume approval process had changed. And like I mentioned I stumbled across the new process while checking out all the new costumes that have been added to the Legion in the last couple years, especially the Spec Ops stuff. I was wondering why you guys were holding off on that BF2 Rocket Trooper... I'm still getting back up to speed myself.

Anyway as for L2 stuff, I've got a list of items. Between helping my Dad with his TIE Pilot and a new vehicle project fell into our laps (just what we need) over the weekend, so been busy with that and haven't had a chance to write anything yet. I'll set aside some time tonight to get something written up.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Yeah that funky proportion on the jumptrooper canister is where I saw it stuck at lol...

That older process is what I had heard and I think in some sections of the 501st website it still is worded that way even though we don't really go by that anymore most of the time. SolidScrafty had his TFU Shadow as well but I'm not sure if he even has it anymore.

[Fivezero[TX]]

Alright, here's my take on the Level 2 requirements, most of it is taken from the regular Shadow Stormtrooper Specialist requirements with a few subtractions and additions. The main highlights include the thinner belt, belt/ab/kidney rivets, and details around the thigh ammo belt. The TD/02 canister also attaches differently with a large block in place of the clips. I also moved the cuts for the belt face over to Level 2, to be more in line with the other Level 2 requirements.

I left off any mention of needing a specific movie style armor. Yes there are some ANH and ROTJ features, but overall much of the armor geometry has differences to either style and ideally  it needs its own armor sculpt to be truly, 100% accurate. For example the shoulders are cut a little differently and have a slightly different shape, the biceps and forearms are a different sculpt, the ab plate is much shorter than either ANH or ROTJ, and a few other things. Realistically, this isn't very feasible and a tad overkill given the context.  So I say we keep the armor sculpt open-ended throughout the CRL. Anyway here's the Level 2 text. Check it over, and let me know if anything should be changed or reworded. I'll work on combining both sets of requirements and post them with along with any changes that are needed.

 

Helmet

• Ears shall have three screws per side, one above and one below the ear bar and one at the base of the helmet.

• Ear bars should have four bumps only, not three.

• The drop from the Ears must also bend towards the back of the helmet, instead of vertically.

• Traps/tears and tube stripes shall have the correct ANH TK details.

• Correct 'Hovi mic' aerator tips.

• FX/AM helmets are not allowed.

• Neck trim shall be of an s-type profile rather than a u-type profile.

Shoulder Straps

• These shall free float in back.

• These shall be glued in front.

• The plastic shoulder straps need to be held down in the back via a metallic silver elastic band to the black fabric that connects/bridges the chest and back piece.

Forearms

• No return edge on the inside of the front of the forearm is allowed.

Hand Plates

• Hand guards shall be latex or latex-like, painted metallic silver, affixed to rubber gloves in lieu of plastic hand guards.

Gloves

• Gloves shall be rubber or rubber-like chemical gloves, in black.

Chest

• Chest and back shall be connected with a black fabric or preferably elastic strap at the shoulders.

Back Plate

• Back plate shall have no, or minimal overlap of the kidney plate.

Abdomen Plate

• Ideally there should be no gap between the ab and kidney plates, just a single visible seam line.

• Four rivets on both sides of the ab plate: two on each side, the heads should be rounded or domed, solid, approximately 5/16" (8mm) diameter (I need to double check measurements on the 3D model) and equally spaced out along the depth of the armor and about 10mm from the edge. They must be painted semi-gloss medium gray. Paperclip brads are not considered to have a domed head. Note: For the original TK armor the type of rivets used were bifurcated rivets or split rivets.

• Correct sized buttons on the Ab Plate (7/16”) and must be gloss black in color.

Kidney Plate

• Four rivets shall be present on the both sides of the kidney plate (two on each side), the heads should be rounded or domed, solid, approximately 5/16"(8mm) (I need to double check measurements on the 3D model) diameter and equally spaced out along the depth of the armor and about 10mm from the edge. They must be painted black. Paperclip brads are not considered to have a domed head. Note: For the original TK armor the type of rivets used were bifurcated rivets or split rivets.

Belt

• Drop boxes must be attached using black elastic and must have full inner drop boxes to close the back. Flat covers are not allowed.

• Drop boxes are vertically aligned with the end of the ammo belt with minimal gap between belt and box.

• The corners of the plastic ammo belt shall be trimmed with a small 45 degree angle on the top and a broad curved cut along the bottom edge.

• Belt proper is thinner than standard TK-style belts, being 50mm (I need to double check measurements on the 3D model) wide with the top aligned with the bottom of the 45 degree cut.

• Eight rivets shall be present on the belt proper (arranged in pairs), the heads should be rounded or domed, solid, approximately 5/16"(8mm) diameter. (I need to double check measurements on the 3D model) And spaced out to match reference pictures. They must be painted black. Paperclip brads are not considered to have a domed head. Note: For the original TK armor the type of rivets used were bifurcated rivets or split rivets.

O2 Canister

• O2 canister should have a large block that is attached to the belt in place of clips.  This block can be secured with a discrete method (rivets, Velcro, bolts, or similar method) to the belt.

Thighsa

• The edges of the thigh ammo belt should be cut straight

• The ends of the thigh ammo belt should be angled upward and attached above the bottom ridge of the armor.

Lower Legs

• Sniper knee plate must be aligned with the ridges on the shin.

• Sniper knee plate must not have visible rivets or fasteners attaching it to the shin.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Looks good.  Will be easier to distinguish when it's all in one w/ the L1 stuff (for me anyways lol).  Couple questions...

1) Ab buttons are black?

2) Ab rivets are listed as semi-gloss medium gray...kidney rivets are black...this is correct?

3) Belt rivets also black?

I see you moved the 45 degree angle cut to L2 (I agree w/ that).  It's a minor detail that shouldn't hold up a basic approval.  Thanks for the write-up.  We can give it all another look once you get more feedback and mesh the L1/L2.

[Fivezero[TX]]

Yeah I know, it was a bit easier to type separately (as I just copied and pasted the text posted on the forums). I was hoping to get it combined tonight, but ran out of time. And yep, yep, yep and yep to your questions! I know it's a bit of a weird combination, but that's how it is. The black rivets could be interpreted as holes, but in other lighting they look like proper domed rivets (I can get a better picture if we need it for clarification). Personally I think rivets will look better in the long run. Here's a quick picture with the rivets circled.