Proposal for Army Trooper CRL Update

[ShovelGuy[TX]]

Here are a few thoughts in regards to updating the Imperial Army Trooper CRL 

1. Addition of the use of the TK Belt as seen in source material . 

2. Possible adjustments to the boot section of the CRL .

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Same thoughts here, its seen in more than one panel and we should be able to add it to the optional accessories section.  From the art the tk belt is replacing the pouches on one trooper, but rides above or below the pistol belt on the other.   

We can add a tab showing the model wearing the TK belt. 

Copied from the current ANH stunt TK CRL:

Belt

• Belt face is made of plastic (TK ammo belt).
• The soft belt proper is made of canvas, or material with a canvas covering. Size must be 2.75” (70 mm) to 3.25”(83 mm) wide and not wider than the plastic portion of the belt. The color is be white to off-white.
• The drop boxes dangle from the sides of the front plastic belt (ammo belt) via white straps and are aligned under the plastic tabs of the ammo belt.

 

What are your thoughts on boots?  

copied from current Army trooper CRL:

Boots Calf high black leather or leather like material. Jackboot style is acceptable, see gallery. Free of laces, decorative stitching, buckles on the instep or any other embellishments. Boots may have a single adjustment strap at the top outside of the boot, with the buckle no wider than 1". This need not be functional. Zippers on the inside of the boot are acceptable, so long as they are concealed. If the zipper is not covered by vinyl/ leather, it is painted black.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Olive green 8”-9” high boots. Free of laces, decorative sticking, buckles on the instep or any other embellishments. Zippers on the inside of the boots are acceptable, so long as they are concealed.

[ShovelGuy[TX]]

@Blackwatch I’ve talked with a local member who is going to send me some proof of concept photos of him wearing his army trooper with the TK belt . 
 

as for the boots I’d love to see a new CRL image with the Lvl2 items present . Having gone through the source material I don’t see much precedence for using the calf height boots on the CRL . 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

23 minutes ago, ShovelGuy said:

@Blackwatch I’ve talked with a local member who is going to send me some proof of concept photos of him wearing his army trooper with the TK belt . 
 

as for the boots I’d love to see a new CRL image with the Lvl2 items present . Having gone through the source material I don’t see much precedence for using the calf height boots on the CRL . 

You guys know Im no good with colors.  Are the boots actually green?  Like without a doubt?

[ShovelGuy[TX]]

On 2/5/2020 at 4:48 PM, Raider said:

You guys know Im no good with colors.  Are the boots actually green?  Like without a doubt?

I’ll be going back at the source material again . Color is gonna be harder to confirm than the overall design . Overall I’d like to see a possible departure from the use of the crewman style boots as the basic boot as I can find nowhere in the source comics of the boots being higher than the ankles .

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

I agree that they are shorter than jacks.  The Commuters look better, or at lest blouse down a jackboot to give this appearance. 

To my tired old eyes and this tired old monitor, this looks to be painted the same shade as the rest of the uniform. The uniform has a darker green shade for the shadows. The boots are the same funky grey-green used for the comic art. 

These boots are not covered in filth, but anyone who has ever spent more than half a day outside of the  CUCV you are driving the old man around in, your boots weather rapidly and that Garrison finish is gone in no time

The boots definitely stop above the ankle. Even my Chelseas as short as they are stop above my ankles.  The effect can be achieved with proper blousing of the boot, or using a short boot like the commuter. 

.  

in my photo most of my weathering has flaked off.  I had tromped through my ditch to get them extra filthy. 

 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Ok...so the boot length seems a settled issue...commuter OR bloused (for Level 2 right or make that a Level 1 requirement?)

Color...I will tell you what I see, but I don't trust it.  I don't see green at all which is why I asked lol.  It all looks a dark grey to me...I'm not saying I'm right just what my eyes see.  I was trying to determine if black boots is an option at all for Level 2...I know we allow it at Level 1.

Belt it looks like we would pull a ROTJ belt description (no buttons in between the belt boxes).

[ShovelGuy[TX]]

@Raider I think color can be attributed a lot to artistic choices , if you look at the Sapper in the comics series it’s colored purple and not black . 
 

as for the the boots I’d like to suggest the removal of the calf height boot in the manner it’s currently being worn , tucked in rather than blouses .  Personally I’m not a fan of the blousing idea but that’s irrelevant. 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Original Ref pics Lets go back to the original source art, and compare both the Imperial Officers, which we know wear black boots, and Lt. Sunber, a Trooper Officer.   Heres the sapper pic for comparison, and they are filthy with the dirt carried up onto their pants legs. Probably black to start with, and just plain muddy sandy and dirty.  Like me in the field after a week. Got chewed out by my Company CO for having filthy boots--he was sending me to Stinger school that afternoon.  It was like day 6 in Graf after it rained. Neal is right, its artistic interpretation. 
OIriginal reference images   

 

to me, its the same basic tone as the overall uniform green, with dirt.   I can also make the case for dusty black boots. 

Also a point is brought up here.  Tucked Vs Bloused.   

Tucked and tight.

Bloused at the top of the boot.

Crammed into the top of the boot.  

I cant see any further options, and by the appearance, it is  either bloused into the boot the way I wear my boots every day at work, or crammed in  like a lot of guys I work with do.

SO- I feel a shorter boot like the commuter is more in line, and gives a better overall appearance than a jackboot.  There ARE shorter motorcycle engineer boots, the 7-8 inch shaft boots, that are very similar. 

Also agree with the belt that has no buttons between boxes. 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Alright...looking at the officers' (black) boots, I can see that they aren't the same color...unless you roll with the idea that the army guys just have dusty boots as they're in the field more than the officers.

Either way, we are going to make an interpretation.  You guys have the freedom to make the call here.  Please present a final text for review of the boots then and we can finalize that.

The belt...ROTJ TK belt...the only wording we would need to add is how the belt is situated on the trooper (above their standard belt...over it...below...in place of...doesn't matter).

If we have this all finished up...I can process the update once the new LMOs are ratified.

QUESTION...would TK belt would not be applied to Engineer and Sapper correct?

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

@Raider  last question first, yes the TK belt is will be applied to the Engineer  and that is being discussed in this topic.

My call is that the boots are black.  The empires boots tend to run black, white or red with green for the army trooper being our exception.  

None of our CRls tell us how the legs are tucked into the boot top.  That is the new term we will use going forward..."tucked".  That is different than bloused, and that term will no longer be used. 

I will suit up Sunday and get new photos for the Engineer using the black Commuter iI boots I have, so we have all fresh images of the Engineer for front and back shots.  This will remove the tall Jackboot from the CRL, and we will go forward using a short boot.  Regular cheap motorcylce boots with 8-9" shafts can be used. Ive accidentally bought then that were far too short for Jackboot type use, so I know they are out there. 

PROPOSED TEXT FOR BOOTS

Changes:

Removals in red strikethough

Additions/ text changes in emerald. 

 

Boots Calf High       Below the Calf black leather or leather like material. Jackboot style is acceptable, see gallery. Free of laces, decorative stitching, buckles on the instep or any other embellishments. Boots may have a single adjustment strap at the top outside of the boot, with the buckle no wider than 1". This need not be functional. Zippers on the inside of the boot are acceptable, so long as they are concealed. If the zipper is not covered by vinyl/ leather, it is painted black.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): 8-9" tall olive tone boot.  Free of laces, decorative sticking, buckles on the instep or any other embellishments. Zippers on the inside of the boots are acceptable, so long as they are concealed. Pants legs shall be tucked into boots and fluffed to give appearance of original source art. Weathering of the boots is encouraged.

 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

1 hour ago, Blackwatch said:

@Raider  last question first, yes the TK belt is will be applied to the Engineer  and that is being discussed in this topic.

My call is that the boots are black.  The empires boots tend to run black, white or red with green for the army trooper being our exception.  

None of our CRls tell us how the legs are tucked into the boot top.  That is the new term we will use going forward..."tucked".  That is different than bloused, and that term will no longer be used. 

I will suit up Sunday and get new photos for the Engineer using the black Commuter iI boots I have, so we have all fresh images of the Engineer for front and back shots.  This will remove the tall Jackboot from the CRL, and we will go forward using a short boot.  Regular cheap motorcylce boots with 8-9" shafts can be used. Ive accidentally bought then that were far too short for Jackboot type use, so I know they are out there. 

PROPOSED TEXT FOR BOOTS

Changes:

Removals in red strikethough

Additions/ text changes in emerald. 

 

Boots Calf High       Below the Calf black leather or leather like material. Jackboot style is acceptable, see gallery. Free of laces, decorative stitching, buckles on the instep or any other embellishments. Boots may have a single adjustment strap at the top outside of the boot, with the buckle no wider than 1". This need not be functional. Zippers on the inside of the boot are acceptable, so long as they are concealed. If the zipper is not covered by vinyl/ leather, it is painted black.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): 8-9" tall olive tone boot.  Free of laces, decorative sticking, buckles on the instep or any other embellishments. Zippers on the inside of the boots are acceptable, so long as they are concealed. Pants legs shall be tucked into boots and fluffed to give appearance of original source art. Weathering of the boots is encouraged.

 

I'm good with the boot

EXCEPT...

I'm still not convinced on the green.  Looking at your pic with green boots against the reference...they just don't look the same to me.

Here's where I'm getting hung up...

In this panel above officers clearly have black boots to me...trooper boots have a different shade to them.

 

But then in this panel above...the sappers seem to have a green-ish shade to their boots, but we have theirs listed as black boots.

 

And here...officer and engineer have the same green tint...but we established in panels above that officer boots were black.

 

SOOOOOO...lol...

I'm stuck on whether these are just dirty black boots for all of our army troopers...or if they are in fact green?  Likewise...my same question would be asked of the gloves.  It's almost like we can go both ways with it.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Im sticking to green.  its how I have always interpreted it and its how many of us have already built our rigs.  The sappers boots in the panel have no green whatsoever, its brown.  Very close to raw umber. prior to the raid their boots were darker, this brown would reflect the accumulation of dirt in the field which happens very quickly when you are on the move.     

The cleanest of the Army troops have a somehwat lighter green than the coverall. I still argue this is artistic interpretation to show they are a different material, and covered with various shades of dust. The Army troopers gloves are green a half shade lighter than their coveralls.  

If we make everyone black across the board, then it will not match the source art. Id go so far as to allow OLIVE DRAB which is a greenish brown, for the boots, however OLIVE DRAB is not a set color, and I have probably 20 different shades of it on hand. 

 

Ill throw this into the monkeyworks.  These are my current Air Force issue boots.  They are SERGE GREEN.  They appear brown in this picture. 

[ShovelGuy[TX]]

On 2/21/2020 at 11:15 PM, Raider said:

I'm good with the boot

EXCEPT...

I'm still not convinced on the green.  Looking at your pic with green boots against the reference...they just don't look the same to me.

Here's where I'm getting hung up...

In this panel above officers clearly have black boots to me...trooper boots have a different shade to them.

 

But then in this panel above...the sappers seem to have a green-ish shade to their boots, but we have theirs listed as black boots.

 

And here...officer and engineer have the same green tint...but we established in panels above that officer boots were black.

 

SOOOOOO...lol...

I'm stuck on whether these are just dirty black boots for all of our army troopers...or if they are in fact green?  Likewise...my same question would be asked of the gloves.  It's almost like we can go both ways with it.

I would  stick to green . In the first photo it shows the officers boots in a different shade , as a polished leather boot. In the second photo it’s obvious that the boots are dirty from mud , you can see the shade  only goes up to the calves , you can see the mud on the TK shin . In the Last photo it’s a similar thing . 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Copy that @ShovelGuy.  Alright then...so shorter boot is now mandatory but black and green allowed at Level 1.  Green only at Level 2.

Any TK belt allowed as optional for Level 1.  Specifically must not have buttons (ROTJ TK style) for Level 2 (though ANH sized drop down boxes are required...not ROTJ).  Am I overthinking it?

With the LMOs ratified...we simply need to finalize these bits and then get pictures.

[ShovelGuy[TX]]

@TX 62888 since your a Level 2 Army Trooper and also habe a TK would you be willing to model for the photos ? 

[TX 62888[TX]]

On 2/27/2020 at 9:22 PM, ShovelGuy said:

@TX 62888 since your a Level 2 Army Trooper and also habe a TK would you be willing to model for the photos ? 

You bet! I am in. What would you need from me?

[RAIDER[COTG]]

17 minutes ago, TX 62888 said:

You bet! I am in. What would you need from me?

We would need the following for the main CRL:

• Full body front and back arms down (no weapons)
• I would also like to reshoot the flightsuit picture.  Laid out more neatly (see Shadow Scout flightsuit pic).  Both front and back.

For the gallery we would need:

• Full body sides (left/right)
• Full body front/back/sides with TK belt on
• An up close shot of the telemetry unit

That's all I see I think.  The boots up there on the individual piece (not the main model) look like the soon-to-be acceptable Level 1 version.  We would need to link/update the picture for the Engineer black boots (once updated) to the gallery as acceptable for the army trooper as well.

Best most professional looking, clean shot you can muster...neutral background for easier cutout.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Ok so here is the change log on the boot and belt options, as written for the I A Engineer and suitably altered here. 

 

Boots Below the calf black or green leather or leather like material. Free of laces, decorative stitching, buckles on the instep or any other embellishments. Zippers on the inside of the boot are acceptable, so long as they are concealed. If the zipper is not covered by vinyl/ leather, it is painted black.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Boot color is green. Pants legs shall be tucked into boots and fluffed to give appearance of original source art./w Weathering of boots is encouraged.

TK Ammo Belt

Belt face is made of white plastic (TK ammo belt). 

The soft belt proper is made of canvas, or material with a canvas covering. Size must be 2.75” (70 mm) to 3.25”(83 mm) wide and not wider than the plastic portion of the belt. The color is be white to off-white.

The drop boxes dangle from the sides of the front plastic belt (ammo belt) via white straps and are aligned under the plastic tabs of the ammo belt.

Belt may be worn to match reference art, above or below the pistol belt. 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

ROTJ style TK ammo belt.  

No buttons are present on belt.

Drop boxes shall be ANH Stormtrooper size, not ROTJ stormtrooper size. 

Weathering of ammo belt is encouraged. 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Quick update- waiting new photos and final LMO review.  

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

just a reminder everyone, the current CRL is still what we are using.  This new CRL proposal is not in use yet. 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

*OFF TOPIC* new boot links posted to the purchase list. 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Shovelguy originally posted with the intent to add the lower commuter style boot as a more accurate option than the jackboots originally written into the CRL and to add a TK belt which is featured in a couple of panels. 

For your consideration:

Removal of holes from the commercial pistol style belt for L2, since holes are featured in some panels, but not all panels.  This is the issue with comic art- insconsistent art which is not identical in all panels.  

Proposal for change to CRL for level 1 and level 2 status:

Added text in orange.

Green Imperial Army Jumpsuit

One piece green coverall / jumpsuit / flightsuit with a hidden front zipper and mandarin collar.

Each shoulder has an Imperial Army patch that sits 3-4 inches below the shoulder seam.

2 large chest pockets.

2 large cargo pockets sit on the outside of the legs from around mid-thigh and not extending past bottom of the knee, with a rectangular flap covering the top.

No pockets on sleeves or below knees.

Rank bars of any kind are not permitted.

 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Mandarin collar is closed by a chevron shaped strap across the neck.

A single black snap is present near the chevron point in the collar. Snap does not need to be functional.

Cargo pockets billow out to appear full.

Pockets may feature gussets. 

 

Belt

Belt is a 2"-2.25" wide nylon military style quick release web belt.

Belt is black in color.

Belt has grommets that run along both the top and bottom of its length.

 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Belt has no holes. 

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

I support this modification.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

On 7/4/2020 at 2:20 PM, Blackwatch said:

Shovelguy originally posted with the intent to add the lower commuter style boot as a more accurate option than the jackboots originally written into the CRL and to add a TK belt which is featured in a couple of panels. 

For your consideration:

Removal of holes from the commercial pistol style belt for L2, since holes are featured in some panels, but not all panels.  This is the issue with comic art- insconsistent art which is not identical in all panels.  

Proposal for change to CRL for level 1 and level 2 status:

Added text in orange.

Green Imperial Army Jumpsuit

One piece green coverall / jumpsuit / flightsuit with a hidden front zipper and mandarin collar.

Each shoulder has an Imperial Army patch that sits 3-4 inches below the shoulder seam.

2 large chest pockets.

2 large cargo pockets sit on the outside of the legs from around mid-thigh and not extending past bottom of the knee, with a rectangular flap covering the top.

No pockets on sleeves or below knees.

Rank bars of any kind are not permitted.

 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Mandarin collar is closed by a chevron shaped strap across the neck.

A single black snap is present near the chevron point in the collar. Snap does not need to be functional.

Cargo pockets billow out to appear full.

Pockets may feature gussets. 

 

Belt

Belt is a 2"-2.25" wide nylon military style quick release web belt.

Belt is black in color.

Belt has grommets that run along both the top and bottom of its length.

 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Belt has no holes. 

Good morning!   Pinging here @Blackwatch couple quick notes:

1) Belt.  If some of the panels do have the grommets then maybe we should just remove that L2 requirement.

2) Goggles.  Do we want to add a strap coloring requirement at either level as we have seen some gray and some black?

3) Pouches.  We can add the same line here regarding zippers and pulls.