Proposal for Army Trooper CRL Update

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

On 10/27/2020 at 7:49 AM, RAIDER said:

Good morning!   Pinging here @Blackwatch couple quick notes:

1) Belt.  If some of the panels do have the grommets then maybe we should just remove that L2 requirement.

2) Goggles.  Do we want to add a strap coloring requirement at either level as we have seen some gray and some black?

3) Pouches.  We can add the same line here regarding zippers and pulls.

On the belt, I feel we can keep the grommets. The images between the Trooper, Engineer and Sapper vary.  Most dont show it. some do.  To me thats the same reason the artist didnt draw the text into the sapper tab over the IA patch.   We have been approving all three types with the standard military style grommets as Specialistis.  I support keeping this standard belt, unless we rephotograph all the CRL model images to preclude betlt grommets.  We can change the wording so that the L2 text may or may not feature grommets.  Or we can put that into the L1 text.    Such as Belt may feature grommets that run along both the top and bottom of its length.

On the goggles, all straps are black.  The sizes vary, but anything in the 1" (25mm) range or wider should be fine.  

This is what we have proposed for the Engineer and Sapper

 

• Pouches with zippers shall have the zippers covered or concealed either with a matching fabric or tight weave webbing. Zipper pulls are either removed or hidden from view. 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

13 hours ago, Blackwatch said:

On the belt, I feel we can keep the grommets. The images between the Trooper, Engineer and Sapper vary.  Most dont show it. some do.  To me thats the same reason the artist didnt draw the text into the sapper tab over the IA patch.   We have been approving all three types with the standard military style grommets as Specialistis.  I support keeping this standard belt, unless we rephotograph all the CRL model images to preclude betlt grommets.  We can change the wording so that the L2 text may or may not feature grommets.  Or we can put that into the L1 text.    Such as Belt may feature grommets that run along both the top and bottom of its length.

On the goggles, all straps are black.  The sizes vary, but anything in the 1" (25mm) range or wider should be fine.  

This is what we have proposed for the Engineer and Sapper

 

• Pouches with zippers shall have the zippers covered or concealed either with a matching fabric or tight weave webbing. Zipper pulls are either removed or hidden from view. 

So making sure i understand...

On the proposal we have the belt as “no grommets” at Level 2.  If it can be either/or Im suggesting just remove that requirement altogether.

Goggles...sounds like black only then for even basic yes?

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

 

on the goggles strap color, i see OD in most of the photos, but I would accept black at L1. I would suggest black strap for L1 and an olive / green tone strap for L2 approval. 

On the belt, I feel we can use the regular green pistol belts for L1 , and as I said above, if the builder can find a belt with no grommets, that should be allowed for L2 but not made mandatory, which is why I said that the belt MAY feature grommets at L2. 

 

I have another proposal to make, just so everone is on the same page.  These pouches are pretty simple with no real features other than the snap. 

Pouches with zippers shall have the zippers covered or concealed either with a matching fabric or tight weave webbing. Zipper pulls are either removed or hidden from view.  No velcro shall be visible. 

 

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

19 hours ago, Blackwatch said:

 

on the goggles strap color, i see OD in most of the photos, but I would accept black at L1. I would suggest black strap for L1 and an olive / green tone strap for L2 approval. 

On the belt, I feel we can use the regular green pistol belts for L1 , and as I said above, if the builder can find a belt with no grommets, that should be allowed for L2 but not made mandatory, which is why I said that the belt MAY feature grommets at L2. 

 

I have another proposal to make, just so everone is on the same page.  These pouches are pretty simple with no real features other than the snap. 

Pouches with zippers shall have the zippers covered or concealed either with a matching fabric or tight weave webbing. Zipper pulls are either removed or hidden from view.  No velcro shall be visible. 

 

I agree with this.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Here is a clear, one -sheet version of our proposals:

Required Costume Components
The following costume components are present and appear as described below.

Helmet - Version 1

• Open face helmet whose base consists of a dome with rim and helmet skirt.
• The helmet skirt is to be smooth all around with no indentations on the rear.
• A telemetry unit is attached centered to the right or left sides of the dome aligned to the rim.
• The telemetry unit consists of:
  • Rectangular box with a slight bevel and details on. The box is in the same color as the helmet.
• 1 telemetry unit details closely resembles the reference photos.
• The helmet is to be painted in olive tone with a flat or satin finish.
• A black trim is covering the edge of the helmet skirt and forehead of the dome.
• Black chin strap and chin cup.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Screw caps are positioned on both sides of the helmet skirt where the chin cup straps meet the helmet.
• The helmet Telemetry Unit (TU) is mounted to the left side of helmet, and is larger than the standard Imperial TU.
• The TU features three lines at the front of the unit, below a raised disc 3/8" (10mm) wide.  
• The outfacing side of the TU has a 1" to 1.125" (25-31mm) raised disc. 
• The rear portion of the TU has a raised rectangular block which is the same overall height and thickness as the raised disc, and extends back from the TU 3/16" (3mm).
• The rear raised block continues around the backside of the TU, to the mounting flange at the helmet. 
• The top of the TU features a raised bar the width and length of the TU, stopping just short of both upper corners of the TU. 
• The TU has a mounting flange which closely matches the curvature of the helmet. 
• The TU matches the same color of the helmet, and may be weathered. 

Goggles - Version 1

• Goggles should have a square-like black or green frame with angled sides and dark green lenses.
• Goggle strap is a minimum of 1" (25mm) wide, as required by the goggle width.  Black is acceptable for basic approval.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Goggle straps are green or grey-green, and are as wide as the goggle mount slots permit. 
• Goggle frame is green.

 

Hat, Olive - Version 2

• Fabric is a medium weight suiting material of olive green.
• Base of the hat is conical, with a crown about 4" (101.6mm) tall.
• Front and rear “flaps” overlap on the sides and are about 4" (101.6mm) high.
• Front bill extends 3" (76mm) down, decorated with (5) (6) or (7) concentric stitches.
• An Imperial Code Disk may be positioned in the center of the front vertical “flap,” but is not required.

 

Green Imperial Flight Suit

• One-piece olive green coverall / jumpsuit / flight suit with a front invisible zipper and mandarin collar.
• Each shoulder has a patch as noted below.
• 2 large chest pockets.
• 2 large cargo pockets sit on the outside of each leg from around mid-thigh and not extending past the bottom of the knee, with a rectangular flap covering the top.
• There are no leg pockets below the knees.
• Rank bars of any kind are not permitted.
• Pockets may feature gussets.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Mandarin collar is closed by a chevron shaped strap across the neck.
• A single snap is present near the chevron point.
• Snap does not need to functional.
• Snap should be olive green in color.

 Imperial Army Patch

• A shield shaped patch.
• The patch has an Imperial cog symbol approximately 2.75" to 3" (70-76mm) in diameter.
• The background of the patch has a more narrow shield shaped design on top of a box colored a darker shade of green.

Olive Gloves

• Olive drab, wrist length gloves constructed of leather, Kevlar or similar material.
• Enclosed fingers.
• No buckles, straps, etc.
• May have three stitched lines or square padding on the back of the hand.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Gloves are made of leather with the correct set of parallel lines stitched on the back of the hand.

Web Harness

• Olive green colored, double strap “H” harness which travels from the lower back, and up over the shoulders.
• The harness system attaches to the belt.
• Harness is made of 2" (50mm) olive green nylon webbing.
• Visible snap-hook style fasteners that attach to belt eyelets are acceptable.
• Tri-glides may be present on front or back of the suspenders.
• Back of suspenders may be permanently fastened to the belt, but not required.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Harness fasteners are not seen, and may be hidden behind the belt. 
• Tri-glides are present on the front suspenders for harness adjustment. Tri-glides are level with each other. 

Belt

• Belt is a nylon military style quick release web belt.
• Belt is olive green in color.
• Belt may feature eyelets along both sides of its length, but these are not required for approval.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Belt buckle is olive green in color.

Belt Pouches

• Belt pouches are olive green in color and should be made of nylon or similar material.
• A minimum of 4 small pouches are required, which may consist of any combination of double handcuff, small utility pouches, magazine pouches or other MOLLE style pouches of similar size.
• Two pouches should be placed in front - One on each side of the belt buckle where the harness meets the belt.
• The remaining pouches may be placed anywhere on the sides or back of the belt.
• Any additional OD green MOLLE style pouches are encouraged to fill out the belt, but are not required.
• Pouches with zippers shall have the zippers covered or concealed either with a matching fabric or tight weave webbing.
• Zipper pulls are either removed or hidden from view. 

 Boots

• Below the calf black or green leather or leather-like material.
• Free of laces, decorative stitching, buckles on the instep or any other embellishments.
• Zippers on the inside of the boot are acceptable, so long as they are concealed.
• If the zipper is not covered by vinyl/leather, it is painted black.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Olive green 8” to 9” (20-23cm) high boots.
• Pants legs shall be tucked into boots and fluffed to give appearance of original source art.
• Weathering of the boots is encouraged. 

Optional Accessories
Items below are optional costume accessories. These items are not required for approval, but if present appear as described below. If adding in an accessory after initial approval, the item still needs to be submitted to local GML for approval before use.

TK Ammo Belt

• Belt face is made of white plastic (TK ammo belt). 
• The soft belt proper is made of canvas, or material with a canvas covering. Size must be 2.75” to 3.25” (70-83mm) wide and not wider than the plastic portion of the belt. The color is be white to off-white.
• The drop boxes dangle from the sides of the front plastic belt (ammo belt) via white straps and are aligned under the plastic tabs of the ammo belt.
• Belt may be worn to match reference art, above or below the pistol belt. 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• ROTJ style TK ammo belt.  
• No buttons are present on belt.
• Drop boxes shall be ANH Stormtrooper size, not ROTJ stormtrooper size. 
• Weathering of ammo belt is encouraged. 

E-11 Blaster

• Based on a real or replica Sterling sub-machine gun, scratch-built, or a modified commercial toy Stormtrooper blaster.

DH-17 Blaster

• Scratch built or high-end prop replica.

E-11 Holster

• Holster is made of Nylon, leather or similar material.
• Black or olive green in color.
   

 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

@Blackwatch looks good.

A few minor cleanups for consistency w/ our other CRLs:

1. Helmet TU L2 bullet 4 - Adjust measurement to 1" to 1 1/8" (25-31mm)...also if we can change the 1 1/8" to a decimal plz.

2. Patch.  Give mm measurements and match formatting mentioned above.

3. Boots L2 bullet 1 - Add mm measures.

4. TK belt L2 bullet - Adjust formatting of measurements to match point 1 above.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

12 hours ago, Blackwatch said:

Here is a clear, one -sheet version of our proposals:

Required Costume Components
The following costume components are present and appear as described below.

Helmet

• Open face helmet whose base consists of a dome with rim and helmet skirt.
• The helmet skirt is to be smooth all around with no indentations on the rear.
• A telemetry unit is attached centered to the right or left sides of the dome aligned to the rim.
• For Basic L1 approval, the telemetry unit consists of:
  • Rectangular box with a slight bevel and details on. The box is in the same color as the helmet.
• 1 telemetry unit details closely resembles the reference photos.
• The helmet is to be painted in Olive tone with a flat or satin finish.
• A black trim is covering the edge of the helmet skirt and forehead of the dome.
• Black chin strap and chin cup.
• May be replaced by the Olive Hat listed under optional accessories for approval.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Screw caps are positioned on both sides of the helmet skirt where the chin cup straps meet the helmet.
• The helmet Telemetry Unit is mounted to the left side of helmet, and is larger than the standard Imperial Telemetry Unit
• The TU features three lines at the front of the unit, below a raised disc 3/8" (10mm) wide.  
• The outfacing side of the TU has a 1" to 1.25" (25 - 31mm) raised disc. 
• The rear portion of the TU has a raised rectangular block which is the same overall height and thickness as the raised disc, and extends back from the TU 3/16" (3mm).
• The rear raised block continues around the backside of the TU, to the mounting flange at the helmet. 
• The top of the TU features a raised bar the width and length of the TU, stopping just short of both upper corners of the TU. 
• The TU has a mounting flange which closely matches the curvature of the helmet. 
• The TU matches the same color of the helmet, and may be weathered. 

Goggles

• Goggles should have a square-like black or green frame with angled sides and dark green lenses.
• Goggle strap is a minimum of 1" wide, as required by the goggle width.  Black is acceptable for basic approval. 
• Not needed if the hat option is worn.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Goggle straps are green or grey-green, and are as wide as the goggle mount slots permit. 
• Goggle frame is green.

Green Imperial Flight Suit

• One piece olive green coverall / jumpsuit / flightsuit with a front invisible zipper and mandarin collar.
• Each shoulder has a patch as noted below.
• 2 large chest pockets.
• 2 large cargo pockets sit on the outside of each leg from around mid-thigh and not extending past bottom of the knee, with a rectangular flap covering the top.
• There are no leg pockets below the knees.
• Rank bars of any kind are not permitted.
• Pockets may feature gussets.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Mandarin collar is closed by a chevron shaped strap across the neck
• A single snap is present near the chevron point
• Snap does not need to functional.
• Snap should be Olive Green in color.

 Imperial Army Patch

• A shield shaped patch.
• The patch has an Imperial cog symbol approximately 2.75" to 3" (69 - 76mm)  inches in diameter.
• The background of the patch has a more narrow shield shaped design on top of a box colored a darker shade of green.

Olive Gloves

• Olive Drab, wrist length gloves constructed of leather, kevlar or similar material.
• Enclosed fingers
• No buckles, straps, etc.
• May have three stitched lines or square padding on the back of the hand.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Gloves are made of leather with the correct set of parallel lines stitched on the back of the hand.

Web Harness

• Olive green colored, double strap “H” harness which travels from the lower back, and up over the shoulders.
• The harness system attaches to the belt.
• Harness is made of 2 inch olive green nylon webbing.
• Visible snap-hook style fasteners that attach to belt eyelets are acceptable
• Tri-glides may be present on front or back of the suspenders.
• Back of suspenders may be permanently fastened to belt, but not required.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• * The main body of harness fasteners are discreetly hidden behind the belt.
• Harness fasteners are not seen, and may be hidden behind the belt. 
• Tri-glides are present on the front suspenders for harness adjustment. Triglides are level with each other. 

Belt

• Belt is a nylon military style quick release web belt.
• Belt is olive green in color.
• Belt is grommeted with may feature eyelets along both sides of its length, but these are not required for approval.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Belt buckle is Olive Green in color.
• Belt has no grommets along the edges. 

Belt Pouches

• Belt pouches are olive green in color and should be made of nylon or similar material.
• A minimum of 4 small pouches are required, which may consist of any combination of double handcuff, small utility pouches, magazine pouches or other molle style pouches of similar size.
• Two pouches should be placed in front - One on each side of the belt buckle where the harness meets the belt.
• The remaining pouches may be placed anywhere on the sides or back of the belt.
• Any additional OD green MOLLE style pouches are encouraged to fill out the belt, but are not required.
• Pouches with zippers shall have the zippers covered or concealed either with a matching fabric or tight weave webbing.
• Zipper pulls are either removed or hidden from view. 

 Boots

• Below the calf black or green  leather or leather like material.
• Jackboot style is acceptable, see gallery.
• Free of laces, decorative stitching, buckles on the instep or any other embellishments.
• Boots may have a single adjustment strap at the top outside of the boot, with the buckle no wider than 1". This need not be functional.
• Zippers on the inside of the boot are acceptable, so long as they are concealed.
• If the zipper is not covered by vinyl/ leather, it is painted black.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Olive green 8”-9” (20-23CM) high boots.
• Pants legs shall be tucked into boots and fluffed to give appearance of original source art.
• Weathering of the boots is encouraged. 

Optional Accessories
Items below are optional costume accessories. These items are not required for approval, but if present appear as described below. If adding in an accessory after initial approval, the item still needs to be submitted to local GML for approval before use.

Hat, Olive

• Fabric is a medium weight suiting material of olive green.
• Base of the hat is conical, with a crown about 4" (101mm) tall.
• Front and rear “flaps” overlap on the sides and are about 4" (10mm) high.
• Front bill extends 3" down, decorated with (5) (6) or (7) concentric stitches.
• An Imperial Code Disk may be positioned in the center of the front vertical “flap,” but is not required.

TK Ammo Belt

• Belt face is made of white plastic (TK ammo belt). 
• The soft belt proper is made of canvas, or material with a canvas covering. Size must be 2.75” to 3.25”(76 -83mm) wide and not wider than the plastic portion of the belt. The color is be white to off-white.
• The drop boxes dangle from the sides of the front plastic belt (ammo belt) via white straps and are aligned under the plastic tabs of the ammo belt.
• Belt may be worn to match reference art, above or below the pistol belt. 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• ROTJ style TK ammo belt.  
• No buttons are present on belt.
• Drop boxes shall be ANH Stormtrooper size, not ROTJ stormtrooper size. 
• Weathering of ammo belt is encouraged. 

E-11 Blaster

• Based on a real or replica Sterling sub-machine gun, scratch-built, or a modified commercial toy Stormtrooper blaster.

DH-17 Blaster

• Scratch built or high-end prop replica.

E-11 Holster

• Holster is made of Nylon, leather or similar material.
• Black or Olive Green In Color
   

 

New updates for metric sizes in orange. 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

@Blackwatch Great! Ok one last question and Im done...

Our older convo about belt grommets.  L1 says belt IS grommeted...L2 says it isnt.  I thought we eventually decided grommets were just as prevalent in the comic panels as non.  Is my memory correct on that?  If so do u think we can remove the L2 req?  Either way I think L1 should say it can be either or that way it doesnt look contradictory.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

i went back and re read our conversation stream on that, and we did agree that they appear in 50% of the panels.  It was my understanding from the conversation that the basic belt would work for L1, but a belt would likely need to be fabricated for the L2 level.  

I will rewrite the section to allow grommets at the L1 level, and leave it to the builder. 

 

Look for the changes in the topic above, I wont quote it below. 

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

I'm also going to put (TU) after the first reference of Telemetry Unit so that it is clarified. I know that sounds dumb but it'll be good to establish that.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

@Blackwatch I have edited this post https://forum.specops501st.com/topic/7349-proposal-for-army-trooper-crl-update/?do=findComment&comment=97675 with the updates you provided in your recent quoted post. The linked thread in this post should be the main one we edit for pulling to the final CRL text thread on the update to the Wiki.

Any other things that I corrected to flow with our other CRLs and @RAIDER's recommendation for measurements I have made in light orange.

 

[Saifai[TX]]

At what height the patches should be attached? It’s not specified in the crl.

[SirCalcium[TX]]

4 hours ago, Saifai said:

At what height the patches should be attached? It’s not specified in the crl.

During my build I was told 1 or 3 inches below the shoulder seam, with 3 inches being the most correct.

[Saifai[TX]]

Tyvm for the info.

And one more question about the end of the harness.

On the crl it is visible on the outside. But is it ok to wear it hidden on the inside, too?

Like the Imperial Army Engineer.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

All of my harnesses are tucked and tight. There shouldnt be any loose ends visible. I never noticed it was laid out like that on the images, it certianly isnt depicted that way in the art. 

I would say for L2 make sure all your straps are tucked, hidden and tight, with nothing flopping around. Thats standard field discipline. 

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

11 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

All of my harnesses are tucked and tight. There shouldnt be any loose ends visible. I never noticed it was laid out like that on the images, it certianly isnt depicted that way in the art. 

I would say for L2 make sure all your straps are tucked, hidden and tight, with nothing flopping around. Thats standard field discipline. 

I agree with @Blackwatchhere. We can allow for both of L1 until it is addressed in an update, as the intent was for the loose ends to be hidden. Definitely for L2 they need to be hidden; the source art looks this way.

[TrooperPX[TX]]

Howdy!

For my build I went with 2" below the shoulder seam for the patch.  On this real military garment, the armscye is off the shoulder, while in the references it's drawn at the top of the shoulder.  This puts the patch visually in the correct place on my arm as a whole, IMO.  I will also move the buckles closer to the pistol belt as seen in the one reference.

I will take new reference pics with the loose harness strap behind (full body pics and detail pic).  It may take me a weekend or two.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

2 hours ago, TrooperPX said:

Howdy!

For my build I went with 2" below the shoulder seam for the patch.  On this real military garment, the armscye is off the shoulder, while in the references it's drawn at the top of the shoulder.  This puts the patch visually in the correct place on my arm as a whole, IMO.  I will also move the buckles closer to the pistol belt as seen in the one reference.

I will take new reference pics with the loose harness strap behind (full body pics and detail pic).  It may take me a weekend or two.

Thank you, David!

[TrooperPX[TX]]

We had a Squad photoshoot on Saturday, and I took the opportunity to take a full spread of full-body pics in every configuration.  

Once the photographer uploads them, I'll get them forwarded to Blackwatch.