Finalizing CRL Proposal - SCAR Squadron - Task Force 99: Sergeant Kreel (#59/60)

[RAIDER[COTG]]

I posted chest and ab together due to the recessed lines they share...though in the CRL I believe the back will come in between them.

I highlighted the center section in yellow...mostly from what I see happening in my own build...that the ab being totally different, I will be using the cod but a a 3D printed ab in its place.  It be fused pretty simply I believe and would have no issue doing it, BUT the references may even indicate that they are not fused.

  

The turning of Kreel definitely offsets the ab from the cod and indicates it as a separate piece.  I think we can leave fused as an option...but I would suggest that an option to have them as separate pieces be allowed...and potentially the Level 2 req.  Thoughts?

One other point I'd bring up because it isn't clearly mentioned in the text...but the lines of the ab armor should be a continuation of the lines in the chest armor.  We probably should make mention of that.  It appears as such in several spots.

    

Will take input on how to word that?  That might be something to examine against your build as well @darthRivera

EDIT: I also added only the Level 2 bits from the Shadow Stormtrooper I thought applicable.  If I missed anything please let me know. Thx!

 

Chest Armor

• Overlaps the abdominal armor.
• There are two recessed lines, slightly curved and vertical, on either side of the chest.
• Width of the lines decreases as they progress to the bottom of the chest armor.
• Chest armor must match in-comic references.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Chest plate shall have return edges all around, maximum width of 3/8" (10mm).
• Chest and back shall be connected with a white fabric (preferably elastic) that does not stick out or show under the shoulder plastic straps.

 

Abdomen Armor

• The abdomen and cod piece are combined/fused to a single plate/one piece.
• Cod piece is white in color.
• The abdomen is black in color.
• There are three white vertical lines in the middle. The outer lines are aligned with the two recessed lines of the chest armor.
• There are four white rectangles. Two on each side in a horizontal and parallel position. The rectangles are slightly elevated above the surface of the abdomen.
  • Rectangles cannot be drawn or hand-painted
• There are no visible snaps or rivets.
• Abdomen armor must match in-comic references.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• There should be no gap between the ab and kidney plate, a single visible seam line is ideal. Any gap between the abdomen and kidney armor shall be no more than 1/2” (12.5mm). Any shims used to achieve this effect shall have a similar material and color as with the abdomen and kidney armor. Shims should be flush and seams are allowed.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

10 hours ago, RAIDER said:

Will be posting chest/ab in a bit but before I move fwd, I wanted to ask 2 questions about previous parts just to be sure…

- Helmet on Kreel (I need to check others) has consistently black tube stripes.  Add as an L1 option and an L2 req?

- Pauldron.  Last bullet needs word “affix” fixed to “affixed”.  But my question…the more I look at it the more I’m convinced this is an outer hard shell.  Im ok to leave what we have as L1 BUT Im wondering if it should be a piece of plastic armor attached over the shoulder bell, at the very least for L2.  I think this could be a part 3D modeled fairly easily bu someone who knows how to do that kind of stuff as well.  Thoughts?

For the helmet, that is a good point! I'd say for the ability to quickly allow for conversions with L1 to have the text say blue or black for L1 and black for L2. I made such updates to the 1st post with the finalized text.

For the pauldron, I have made that correction to change it to "affixed". That is a good question for the type of armor for it. I never thought about the hard pauldron, I'd like to see if we have a comparison on normal pauldron to this pauldron in those comic panels if they even exist. I'll have to see what we have in it. I'm not opposed to the hard option for L2.

6 hours ago, RAIDER said:

@darthRivera Thx for the feedback. When he can we will let @IcyTrooper make the final call on the stripes but I think w all of the non-standard TK bits we see, it would seem acceptable to me to do the same here w the black stripes…still allow blue for possible TK conversions but make black the higher standard.

For the shoulder, I will move to your WIP thread to troubleshoot some ideas for a hard plate.  As far as the standard in the CRL…especially if we target L2, mobility would normally be a non-factor as much as the look.  It’s a comic…we will never know (so we can be flexible at L1, but how theyve drawn it really gives me the impression its a hard part.  Again, we can finalize these w @IcyTrooper

See above  

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Chest Armor

• Overlaps the abdominal armor.
• There are two recessed lines, slightly curved and vertical, on either side of the chest.
• Width of the lines decreases as they progress to the bottom of the chest armor and line up with the abdomen armor lines.
• Chest armor must match in-comic references.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Chest plate shall have return edges all around, maximum width of 3/8" (10mm).
• Chest and back shall be connected with a white fabric (preferably elastic) that does not stick out or show under the shoulder plastic straps.

@RAIDER I added the chest text to align with the abdomen armor text which speaks about also lining up with the chest.

Also, for the ab/cod piece I'd be comfortable making the separate cod piece a requirement for L1 since we are materially having to modify the ab plate as it is. Splitting the cod plate shouldn't be hard at all.

[nanotek[CMD-DWM]]

3 minutes ago, IcyTrooper said:

Chest Armor

• Overlaps the abdominal armor.
• There are two recessed lines, slightly curved and vertical, on either side of the chest.
• Width of the lines decreases as they progress to the bottom of the chest armor and line up with the abdomen armor lines.
• Chest armor must match in-comic references.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Chest plate shall have return edges all around, maximum width of 3/8" (10mm).
• Chest and back shall be connected with a white fabric (preferably elastic) that does not stick out or show under the shoulder plastic straps.

@RAIDER I added the chest text to align with the abdomen armor text which speaks about also lining up with the chest.

Also, for the ab/cod piece I'd be comfortable making the separate cod piece a requirement for L1 since we are materially having to modify the ab plate as it is. Splitting the cod plate shouldn't be hard at all.

Just regarding the lines on the chest, I'm not seeing the width increasing or decreasing consistently between ref pics. It also seams the width of the join in general is different between all the pictures provided. It could be that the increased width you are seeing at the top of the chest is just extra shading added, or an overlap but it doesn't happen consistently. In fact out of the references I see above it only happens once out of the four panels provided.

Totally agree with the statement that it lines up with the abdominal lines.

[darthRivera[TX]]

1 hour ago, nanotek said:

I'm not seeing the width increasing or decreasing consistently between ref pics

It is not constant in the drawings, but we do have some references that indicate that design in the lines of the chest.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

1 hour ago, IcyTrooper said:

Chest Armor

• Overlaps the abdominal armor.
• There are two recessed lines, slightly curved and vertical, on either side of the chest.
• Width of the lines decreases as they progress to the bottom of the chest armor and line up with the abdomen armor lines.
• Chest armor must match in-comic references.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Chest plate shall have return edges all around, maximum width of 3/8" (10mm).
• Chest and back shall be connected with a white fabric (preferably elastic) that does not stick out or show under the shoulder plastic straps.

@RAIDER I added the chest text to align with the abdomen armor text which speaks about also lining up with the chest.

Also, for the ab/cod piece I'd be comfortable making the separate cod piece a requirement for L1 since we are materially having to modify the ab plate as it is. Splitting the cod plate shouldn't be hard at all.

For the ab/cod i think u could make the split an L2 thing if keeping tk conversions in mind for those terrified to cut the armor in half lol.  it doesnt really affect the look to have it fused.

pauldron we may have a solution i will bring up in the WIP

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

2 hours ago, nanotek said:

Just regarding the lines on the chest, I'm not seeing the width increasing or decreasing consistently between ref pics. It also seams the width of the join in general is different between all the pictures provided. It could be that the increased width you are seeing at the top of the chest is just extra shading added, or an overlap but it doesn't happen consistently. In fact out of the references I see above it only happens once out of the four panels provided.

Totally agree with the statement that it lines up with the abdominal lines.

I see what you are seeing. Perhaps I can pull something that similarly speaks from the FOTK kits, I'll list it below.

1 hour ago, darthRivera said:

It is not constant in the drawings, but we do have some references that indicate that design in the lines of the chest.

Good comparisons!

59 minutes ago, RAIDER said:

For the ab/cod i think u could make the split an L2 thing if keeping tk conversions in mind for those terrified to cut the armor in half lol.  it doesnt really affect the look to have it fused.

pauldron we may have a solution i will bring up in the WIP

Haha yeah that is fine. What about this for text?:

Abdomen Armor

• The abdomen and cod piece may combined/fused to a single plate/one piece or separate.
• Cod piece is white in color.
• The abdomen is black in color.
• There are three white vertical lines in the middle. The outer lines are aligned with the two recessed lines of the chest armor.
• There are four white rectangles. Two on each side in a horizontal and parallel position. The rectangles are slightly elevated above the surface of the abdomen.
  • Rectangles cannot be drawn or hand-painted
• There are no visible snaps or rivets.
• Abdomen armor must match in-comic references.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• The cod piece is separate from the abdomen armor.
• There should be no gap between the ab and kidney plate, a single visible seam line is ideal. Any gap between the abdomen and kidney armor shall be no more than 1/2” (12.5mm). Any shims used to achieve this effect shall have a similar material and color as with the abdomen and kidney armor. Shims should be flush and seams are allowed.

For the lines on the chest this is what the FOTK has:

• There is a slight groove running vertical on each lateral side of the chest that angles towards slightly towards the center.

Also, I think we skipped the Back Armor but I think we can use this standard text for it?:

Back Armor

• Back plate contains a “O II” design with little or no overlap of the kidney plate.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Back plate shall have return edges all around, maximum width of 3/8" (10mm).

[darthRivera[TX]]

1 hour ago, IcyTrooper said:

For the lines on the chest this is what the FOTK has:

• There is a slight groove running vertical on each lateral side of the chest that angles towards slightly towards the center.

This form of writing sounds good. It would be very clear.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Verifying before I post further…are we set w upper torso parts?

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

3 hours ago, RAIDER said:

Verifying before I post further…are we set w upper torso parts?

I think we should be good with the edits that were made. I'll post the updated text here in a few after I get done eating dinner. Good speed on this again!

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

I present the updated text for what we discussed here to move forward:

Chest Armor

• Overlaps the abdominal armor.
• There is a slight groove running vertical on each lateral side of the chest that angles towards slightly towards the center.
• These vertical grooves line up with the abdomen armor lines.
• Chest armor must match in-comic references.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Chest plate shall have return edges all around, maximum width of 3/8" (10mm).
• Chest and back shall be connected with a white fabric (preferably elastic) that does not stick out or show under the shoulder plastic straps.

Back Armor

• Back plate contains a “O II” design with little or no overlap of the kidney plate.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Back plate shall have return edges all around, maximum width of 3/8" (10mm).

Abdomen Armor

• The abdomen and cod piece may combined/fused to a single plate/one piece or separate.
• Cod piece is white in color.
• The abdomen is black in color.
• There are three white vertical lines in the middle. The outer lines are aligned with the two recessed lines of the chest armor.
• There are four white rectangles. Two on each side in a horizontal and parallel position. The rectangles are slightly elevated above the surface of the abdomen.
  • Rectangles cannot be drawn or hand-painted
• There are no visible snaps or rivets.
• Abdomen armor must match in-comic references.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• The cod piece is separate from the abdomen armor.
• There should be no gap between the ab and kidney plate, a single visible seam line is ideal. Any gap between the abdomen and kidney armor shall be no more than 1/2” (12.5mm). Any shims used to achieve this effect shall have a similar material and color as with the abdomen and kidney armor. Shims should be flush and seams are allowed.

Let me know if we want to proceed with the above.

[darthRivera[TX]]

Nothing to say.  I see everything fine.?

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Nice. Moving on then...kidney and posterior.  I copied our Shadow text which allows for fused or split kidney/posterior.  I would say in this shot, we can see it is split and make that the L2 req as we did the abdomen/cod.

  

We can can also see no crotch snap...I know I removed this from the text for the cod as well...but maybe we can make this L2 explicitly stating they SHOULD NOT have it.   I think the more we highlight the differences between these guys and the standard TK the better.

I've highlighted the yellow L2 reqs from the Shadow in yellow as potential removals.  Thoughts?

 

Kidney Armor

• The kidney/posterior armor may be either one piece (ROTJ style) or two pieces (ANH style).
• If a separate kidney plate is used, it lines up with the abdomen armor.
• The top of the kidney armor is flush to or under the back armor.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Three rivets shall be present on the left side of the kidney plate: a total of three fasteners, the heads should be rounded or domed, solid, approximately 5/16” (8mm) in diameter and equally spaced out the depth of the armor and about 3/8" (10mm) from the edge. They should be aligned horizontally with the three rivets on the ab plate. They must be painted black. Paperclip brads are not considered to have a domed head. Note: The original TK armor used the bifurcated rivets or split rivets.
• Cut-out notches at the bottom of the right and left side of the kidney armor are optional. If present, each notch is approximately 7/8" (22mm) tall and the back of the notch ideally is aligned with the front edges of the posterior armor plate.

Posterior Armor

• The kidney/posterior armor may be either one piece (ROTJ style) or two pieces (ANH style).

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Two male snaps are present on the lower center tab that are painted black. Snaps do not need to be functional.

[nanotek[CMD-DWM]]

Looking at the pics you provided it definitely looks separate. Thinking out loud here; because the abdominal looks completely different I would say it would have to be built as a separate piece. The front and sides of the abdominal section look like soft parts with some armor plates on the sides? The only solid piece appears to be the back/kidney part. I’m not sure how practical having one piece would be?

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

On 8/18/2021 at 4:08 PM, nanotek said:

Looking at the pics you provided it definitely looks separate. Thinking out loud here; because the abdominal looks completely different I would say it would have to be built as a separate piece. The front and sides of the abdominal section look like soft parts with some armor plates on the sides? The only solid piece appears to be the back/kidney part. I’m not sure how practical having one piece would be?

Are you saying the sides are similar to the Rogue One (R1) TKs with the sides, similar to that extension piece between the chest and back?

[RAIDER[COTG]]

9 hours ago, IcyTrooper said:

Are you saying the sides are similar to the Rogue One (R1) TKs with the sides, similar to that extension piece between the chest and back?

no i think he is referencing the white rectangles as armor and the black as just the undersuit.

i can see how u could reach that conclusion. for me

i dont see it as definitive…like it could be the intent of the artist…maybe it isnt. the one thing i dont see in any of the panels is “folding” or bend in that area.  it always looks prim and stiff…those ridge lines are always perfectly straight

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

1 hour ago, RAIDER said:

no i think he is referencing the white rectangles as armor and the black as just the undersuit.

i can see how u could reach that conclusion. for me

i dont see it as definitive…like it could be the intent of the artist…maybe it isnt. the one thing i dont see in any of the panels is “folding” or bend in that area.  it always looks prim and stiff…those ridge lines are always perfectly straight

Ahhh I see now. Yeah I think there is one panel where it appears to be soft but all the other panels I just checked appear to be what you are describing in the last bit.

[darthRivera[TX]]

I understand the point. But I don't see evidence to tell me that that section of the armor is just the undersuit.  As Raider says, there is no folding, there are no wrinkles, the white lines are always seen in their position. But, on the other hand, we do not have more elements, only what we already mentioned to ensure that this section is rigid armor. It's complicated actually. This cartoon shows a black abdomen, without light reflections or any other factor that helps to interpret what material it is made of.

The Havoc trooper is an example of how we might interpret this section of armor. But the Havoc trooper has both the adbomen and the lower back, uncovered, without armor. Kreel has lower back armor, that is a factor that in my opinion, makes me assure that the addomen is rigid armor as well. But, it's just my interpretation. I don't have the absolute truth.

 

Let's look at this artist interpretation.

  

In his design he interprets that the lower back has no armor as well, and shows it as the undersuit and it looks great. But the comics definitely show that the character has lower back armor.

That is what I can conclude, but I cannot assure you that it is the correct thing to do. ?

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Its tough to say for sure. In earlier issues (which aren’t necessarily our reference point), these guys do use soft parts clearly. Art shows it real clear.  But these issues isnt as clear AND if it helps, the issues just before this it appears to definitely be a hard abdomen.  I can link pics later.

Considering this CRL character might be able to be split into a few versions, I think its safe to do a hard abdomen here.  If going for the earliest version, requiring a soft goods abdomen/back.

Thinking out loud here.

[darthRivera[TX]]

18 minutes ago, RAIDER said:

might be able to be split into a few versions

Well, technically I think there are 4 different versions of the whole squad. ?

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

That is an interesting interpretation, however, I know it is just for us to think out loud here since fan art isn't permissible. I'm going to go back and definitively look at the panels a bit more but I think for this series (#59/60) we should for sure stick with the hard armor for abdomen and kidney/posterior.

[nanotek[CMD-DWM]]

20 hours ago, IcyTrooper said:

Are you saying the sides are similar to the Rogue One (R1) TKs with the sides, similar to that extension piece between the chest and back?

 

I can't unsee the upper armour as a tank top now guys

[nanotek[CMD-DWM]]

These pics here show the other back/kidney armour and shows that it is an independent piece from the upper back and butt plate

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

On 8/20/2021 at 6:24 PM, nanotek said:

These pics here show the other back/kidney armour and shows that it is an independent piece from the upper back and butt plate

I guess since we have that on a majority of the panels we can go ahead and state that is the L1 requirement to have the split and forego any L2 requirements. Since there are no molded/rubber edges appearing on any of the armor I can say we probably don't need to be inclusive for ROTJ mixed with ANH.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Lets lock it in then n move to the legs