CRL Update Discussion - Purge Trooper Phase I: Electrostaff Specialist

[nanotek[CMD-DWM]]

Just on the text of the thigh armor, something stood out about the measurement of the white stripes

Its says around 2” which didn’t sit right with me so I circled back to other parts for a size reference. 
 

The two straps at the front of the Kama are referenced as being 3/4” to 1” and seen here in the same shot I don’t think the white stripe is double that.

 

Might be close to 1 to 1 1/4” approximately?

[TK 21814[TX]]

I’d agree with the thigh stripe width. Mine at 1.5” in width. The sizing might vary depending on the persons vs armour proportions.

Also, for the satin vs matt, satin has a little more reflection value, where matt is closer to flat paint. There is reflection in the armor in the in game model. 
 

let me know if I am ok to add input on this stuff here. 

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Alright, here is the finalized text for the helmet with the lighting effect going to L2.

NOTE: Orange text indicates what was changed. Text that was removed was removed entirely from the proposal.

Helmet

• Realistic style Purge Trooper helmet.
  • Note that this helmet differs from the Airborne Trooper helmet sculpt.
• Armor is painted satin black.
• Helmet has a rounded dome with no mohawk.
• Helmet has a narrow red eye lens.
• The etched lines on the face of a standard Airborne Trooper helmet are not present.
• Along each side of the eye lens are semi circular intake vents with a protruding tube extending towards back of helmet.
  • Vent does not feature open slits.
  • Vent features twelve raised, vertical bars that are evenly spaced along the length of the vent.
• Area below the nose bridge splits open to the base and has a grey, vertical inset vocoder column detail.
  • The front face of the delta piece features two raised rectangles.
• The front face of the delta piece features 10 ribs.
• Base of helmet has two widened ventilation tube bands with the widest tube band on bottom.
• Ends of the smaller tube band, above the helmet base, have a black mesh opening in front.
• Two black round aerators are located in the split area in front of lower tube band.
• The front edge of the lowest tube band is painted grey.
• A small red square is painted on the underside of the vocoder opening in the lowest tube band.
• Base tube band has elliptical shaped inset ventilation detail with vertical ribbing at the front cheek areas.
  • The vents are painted dark grey.
• The front end of the vent insert is squared off
• Helmet has an indented band that extends around the back of the helmet.
• Squared off rib detail at the base of the helmet dome is a different tone of satin black.
• Armor has little to no weathering. Any weathering present consists of grey tones.
• Visor lens is red.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• The visor has a red lighting effect that matches the reference photos.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Alright, moving onto the next few pieces but I'm trying to figure out the naming conventions here:

Purge Trooper Style <- I assume we mean Under Suit here?

• One-piece or two-piece construction with no visible zippers or logos.
• Material appears to be low-sheen leather.

I adjusted that first part in there to be a hybrid of the TK undersuits allow one-piece or two-piece but also stating there are no visible zippers or logos to keep that in the main part. The only part I feel like was redundant was having the part about the collar/shoulder bib being a part of it. I think we can specify in that section that it allowed to be part of the shirt/upper body (vest).

When we say the bit about low-sheen leather, are there any other parts of it that need to be written in? Stitching, etc.? L2 details? 

Collar/Shoulder Bib

• Spacing of the ribs is approximately 1.5" (38mm)

I put approximately in the text as measurements are guidance for proportions when it comes to CRL, and I also added the metric conversion in there. Should we be putting material into this as well?

Shirt/Upper Body <- perhaps we change this to Vest as it is reminding me of the Shadow Scout CRL?

• The neck seal has wider ribs than the shirt itself.
• The arm rib spacing tapers from approximately 1" (25mm) wide to 3/4" (19mm) near the elbow.
• The pants appear to have a heavier taper in the rib spacing, starting at 1.5" (38mm) wide near the waist to 1" (25mm) or 3/4" (19mm) near the knee and below.
  • Ribbing appears to meet behind the cod piece.

A few things here:

• Are we making it a requirement that the neck seal is a part of this shirt/upper body (Vest)? Personally, based on makers and other factors with it I say we can keep the Neck Seal section and instead write in that the neck seal may be a part of the "Vest", but must meet the requirements under Neck Seal. I know that the ICATD from R1 in Armored Cavalry Detachment has this split into two parts even though some makers make an all-in-one neck seal and upper shirt together.
• If we are talking about the neck seal, are we putting any measurements or additional detail in this? Especially if we are breaking it out from the CRL into a separate item. May need to again talk about material type for consistency?
• I notice that in the shirt/upper body we are now talking about the pants? Perhaps we move the pants details to the Under Suit section.

[TK 21814[TX]]

Hi Icy, I have a few critiques of the bodysuit.

I like the inclusions of stich spacing, and approximate dimensions. You could add the fine detail of ... there is a rib where the sleeve meets the body of the shirt. Although, I don't know how specific this CRL should get.

I wouldn't introduce the change of wording of the bib to a vest. A vest has sleeve holes, and also includes the body of a garment. There might be a better word for "shoulder bib". Maybe, shoulder guard, or shoulder cover, or maybe shoulder bib is most appropriate.

The shoulder bib is a feature that rests over the shoulders, and has a hole for the head.

The neck seal should be part of the shirt, as shadows in the game show that the neck seal is not part of the shoulder bib.

The material for the shirt(with neck-seal), pants, shoulder-bib, are all the same. Leather or Leather-Like material.

You may need to make the undersuit into 3 sections. Shoulder Bib, Upper Body, Lower Body. This gives builders options for the undersuit. Have a one piece undersuit with a shoulder bib, or have shirt, pants, and the bib.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

1 hour ago, TK 21814 said:

Hi Icy, I have a few critiques of the bodysuit.

I like the inclusions of stich spacing, and approximate dimensions. You could add the fine detail of ... there is a rib where the sleeve meets the body of the shirt. Although, I don't know how specific this CRL should get.

I wouldn't introduce the change of wording of the bib to a vest. A vest has sleeve holes, and also includes the body of a garment. There might be a better word for "shoulder bib". Maybe, shoulder guard, or shoulder cover, or maybe shoulder bib is most appropriate.

The shoulder bib is a feature that rests over the shoulders, and has a hole for the head.

The neck seal should be part of the shirt, as shadows in the game show that the neck seal is not part of the shoulder bib.

The material for the shirt(with neck-seal), pants, shoulder-bib, are all the same. Leather or Leather-Like material.

You may need to make the undersuit into 3 sections. Shoulder Bib, Upper Body, Lower Body. This gives builders options for the undersuit. Have a one piece undersuit with a shoulder bib, or have shirt, pants, and the bib.

I'm still having a little trouble following the exact parts, which will probably mean that someone new may have a hard time as well

Can you provide pics of what you are talking about? Maybe from your actual suit(s)/piece(s)? Generally L1 we think about overall look and representation of the costume, but also allow for them to be built globally, etc.; whilst L2 gets to the even finer nitty-gritty and may require hard to acquire items, etc.

[TK 21814[TX]]

No worries. I'll try to provide some clarity.

Here's a pic showing that the neck seal is not part of the shoulder-bib. You can se the front of the shoulder bib under the neck is flared out vs the neck seal.

[TK 21814[TX]]

For a basic level of approval, I don't know what to suggest, as a standard clone undersuit might be ok, but misses the shoulder bib piece.

Below is a pic of my undersuit layered up how it is worn. Pants, then shirt, then shoulder bib. The shoulder bib goes on like a really small poncho. Mine has mini-snaps and velcro to keep it in place. The neck seal from the shirt pokes through the shoulder bib opening for the head.

[TK 21814[TX]]

Here's the shoulder bib, both front, and back ... as the details are different.

The front has 3-5 vertical panels. The actual number is unknown due to armor covering it up.

The back has approximately 10 vertical panels. The vertical panels start at the top edge of the shoulder.

 

Shirt Next...

[TK 21814[TX]]

And Pants...

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Thanks for those pics! Much easier to understand. I'm establishing a working group for this so that we can get this moving now that we have the IAT Andor CRL published.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

@rickyboyblue tagging you here (just got Trello updated as well)

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

I just want to make sure I'm understanding where we're at so far.  At this point in the discussion, is it safe to say we can give builder the option to build the Under Suit in one of 4 ways?

1. Shirt with integrated neck seal, trousers, bib.
2. Shirt, separate neck seal, trousers, bib.
3. One piece under suit with integrated neck seal, bib.
4. One piece under suit, separate neck seal, bib.

If so, something like this to simplify all of the above?

"Under suit - One-piece or two-piece construction with no visible zippers or logos.  Neck seal may be integrated into the under suit, or worn over it."

Followed by the bib description?

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

I do think that if we add options on flexibility that is better globally, provided that the end look is uniform for everyone.

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

2 hours ago, IcyTrooper said:

I do think that if we add options on flexibility that is better globally, provided that the end look is uniform for everyone.

100% agreed. Too many CRLs get overly specific about things that will never be seen.

If you add that into your original text, I think we have what we need for the under suit 👌

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

Had a chance to run through all of the above again, and here's some new draft text based on the above:

 

Under Suit and Neck Seal

 

• Under Suit has one-piece or two-piece construction with no visible zippers or logos.

• All materials are low-sheen leather or leather-like material.

• Neck seal may be integrated into the suit, or worn over it.

• Spacings of the ribs given below are approximate.

• Neck seal has 1.5” vertical ribs.

• Shirt has vertical 1” ribbing across the torso.

• The horizontal arm ribs taper from approximately 1" wide at the torso to ¾" at the wrist.

• Sleeves are joined to the torso with a curved 1/4” rib.

• The pants have a heavier taper in the vertical rib spacing, starting at 1.5" wide at the waist to 3/4" above the ankle.

• Ribbing appears to meet behind the cod piece.

 

Shoulder Bib

 

• Material is low-sheen leather or leather-like material, matching the Under Suit.

• Spacings of the ribs given below are approximate.

• Centre front of the bib has three 1.5” vertical ribs, with 1.5” horizontal ribbing on either side.

• Centre rear of the bib has ten 1.5” vertical ribs, with 1.5” horizontal ribbing on either side.

• There is a 1/2” rib running along the outside of the garment, and around the inside of the neck.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

On 5/2/2023 at 2:15 PM, tipperaryred said:

Had a chance to run through all of the above again, and here's some new draft text based on the above:

 

Under Suit and Neck Seal

 

• Under Suit has one-piece or two-piece construction with no visible zippers or logos.

• All materials are low-sheen leather or leather-like material.

• Neck seal may be integrated into the suit, or worn over it.

• Spacings of the ribs given below are approximate.

• Neck seal has 1.5” vertical ribs.

• Shirt has vertical 1” ribbing across the torso.

• The horizontal arm ribs taper from approximately 1" wide at the torso to ¾" at the wrist.

• Sleeves are joined to the torso with a curved 1/4” rib.

• The pants have a heavier taper in the vertical rib spacing, starting at 1.5" wide at the waist to 3/4" above the ankle.

• Ribbing appears to meet behind the cod piece.

 

Shoulder Bib

 

• Material is low-sheen leather or leather-like material, matching the Under Suit.

• Spacings of the ribs given below are approximate.

• Centre front of the bib has three 1.5” vertical ribs, with 1.5” horizontal ribbing on either side.

• Centre rear of the bib has ten 1.5” vertical ribs, with 1.5” horizontal ribbing on either side.

• There is a 1/2” rib running along the outside of the garment, and around the inside of the neck.

I agree with these right now, I appreciate your moving forward with this and to keep it moving! I can update the main thread and then we can push to the next item  

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

Perfect.  I'm guessing at this point there's no obvious need for Level 2 requirements for the under suit?  Everything above seems essential for Level 1 (allowing for approximate measurements on the rib spacings), so unless there's a higher level of detail we haven't covered yet I'm happy to move on.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

10 hours ago, tipperaryred said:

Perfect.  I'm guessing at this point there's no obvious need for Level 2 requirements for the under suit?  Everything above seems essential for Level 1 (allowing for approximate measurements on the rib spacings), so unless there's a higher level of detail we haven't covered yet I'm happy to move on.

I don't think we'll need L2 for anything else on the undersuit stuff for now, so we can progress to the Pauldron and rest  

Here is the finalized text worked up:

Undersuit and Neck Seal

• Undersuit has one-piece or two-piece construction with no visible zippers or logos.
• All materials are low-sheen leather or leather-like material.
• Neck seal may be integrated into the suit, or worn over it.
  • Neck seal has 1.5” (38.1mm) vertical ribs.
• Spacings of the ribs given below are approximate.
  • Shirt has vertical 1” (25.4mm) ribbing across the torso.
  • The horizontal arm ribs taper from approximately 1" (25.4) wide at the torso to ¾" (19mm) at the wrist.
  • Sleeves are joined to the torso with a curved ¼” (6.3mm) rib.
  • The pants have a heavier taper in the vertical rib spacing, starting at 1.5" (38.1mm) wide at the waist to ¾" (19mm) above the ankle.
• Ribbing appears to meet behind the cod piece.

Shoulder Bib

• Material is low-sheen leather or leather-like material, matching the undersuit.
• Spacing of the ribs given below are approximate.
  • Center front of the bib has three 1.5" (38.1mm) vertical ribs, with 1.5" (38.1mm) horizontal ribbing on either side.
  • Center rear of the bib has ten 1.5" (38.1mm) vertical ribs, with 1.5" (38.1mm) horizontal ribbing on either side.
  • There is a ½" (12.7mm) rib running along the outside of the garment and around the inside of the neck.

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

From current CRL, with some possible additions in yellow:

Pauldron

• A black pauldron made of leather or a leather-like material, worn over the right shoulder.
• There are six vertical panels at the front, and six at the rear.  On the right side of the trooper, these are joined by the main, largest panel of the pauldron over the right shoulder.  On the left side, these are joined by a smaller inverted trapezoid panel at the side of the neck.  The pauldron has hems of the same leather or leather like material running around the full inside and outside circumferences of the pauldron.
• The main shoulder area of the pauldron is grey (current images suggest black to me?).
• A black strap runs under the right arm, attached to the front and back of the pauldron at the points where the front and back ribs meet the largest panel of the pauldron.  Strap is attached to the front and the back using a gunmetal popper or rivet. 
• A black strap extends from the front left corner, under the arm and attaches at the back left corner.  Strap is attached out of sight, front and back, under the pauldron.  (We'll also need a description of the buckle, it almost looks like a ratchet style to me?)
• Three ammo cartridges are attached to the strap over the chest.  Each cartridge has a raised U-shaped profile at the bottom, and a recessed rectangular notch in the centre of the top.

 

 

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

On 5/11/2023 at 12:18 PM, tipperaryred said:

From current CRL, with some possible additions in yellow:

Pauldron

• A black pauldron made of leather or a leather-like material, worn over the right shoulder.
• There are six vertical panels at the front, and six at the rear.  On the right side of the trooper, these are joined by the main, largest panel of the pauldron over the right shoulder.  On the left side, these are joined by a smaller inverted trapezoid panel at the side of the neck.  The pauldron has hems of the same leather or leather like material running around the full inside and outside circumferences of the pauldron.
• The main shoulder area of the pauldron is grey (current images suggest black to me?).
• A black strap runs under the right arm, attached to the front and back of the pauldron at the points where the front and back ribs meet the largest panel of the pauldron.  Strap is attached to the front and the back using a gunmetal popper or rivet. 
• A black strap extends from the front left corner, under the arm and attaches at the back left corner.  Strap is attached out of sight, front and back, under the pauldron.  (We'll also need a description of the buckle, it almost looks like a ratchet style to me?)
• Three ammo cartridges are attached to the strap over the chest.  Each cartridge has a raised U-shaped profile at the bottom, and a recessed rectangular notch in the centre of the top.

 

 

I agree with your information here! The pauldron color looks just like the black leather one I have for my shadow stormtrooper, so I'd definitely agree with it being black rather than gray. I also did a little work on that strap text:

• A black strap, made from leather or leather-like material, extends from the front left corner, under the arm and attaches at the back left corner.  Strap is attached out of sight, under the armpit and under the pauldron by a buckle that resembles a ratchet-strap and as per the reference image.

For the ammo cartridges they very closely resemble Phase II ROTS chest ammo packs and rig, so I think your description is good for that. The 327th Star Corps (https://databank.501st.com/databank/Costuming:CT_-_327th_Star_Corps) and Utapau Shadow Commander (https://databank.501st.com/databank/Costuming:CX_212thUtapauShadowCloneCommander) come to mind.

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

Perfect, text reassembled with your addition (tweaked slightly to clear up my original meaning in the first text).   And yes, they definitely took inspiration from the Clone packs there!

Pauldron

• A black pauldron made of leather or a leather-like material, worn over the right shoulder.
• There are six vertical panels at the front, and six at the rear.  On the right side of the trooper, these are joined by the main, largest panel of the pauldron over the right shoulder.  On the left side, these are joined by a smaller inverted trapezoid panel at the side of the neck.  The pauldron has hems of the same leather or leather like material running around the full inside and outside circumferences of the pauldron.
• The main shoulder area of the pauldron is grey (current images suggest black to me?).
• A black strap runs under the right arm, attached to the front and back of the pauldron at the points where the front and back ribs meet the largest panel of the pauldron.  Strap is attached to the front and the back using a gunmetal popper or rivet. 
• A black strap, made from leather or leather-like material, extends from the front left corner, under the left arm and attaches at the back left corner.  Attachment is out of sight, under the pauldron.  The strap has a buckle attached under the left armpit that resembles a ratchet-strap, as per the reference image.
• Three ammo cartridges are attached to the strap over the chest.  Each cartridge has a raised U-shaped profile at the bottom, and a recessed rectangular notch in the centre of the top.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

On 5/17/2023 at 5:10 PM, tipperaryred said:

Perfect, text reassembled with your addition (tweaked slightly to clear up my original meaning in the first text).   And yes, they definitely took inspiration from the Clone packs there!

Pauldron

• A black pauldron made of leather or a leather-like material, worn over the right shoulder.
• There are six vertical panels at the front, and six at the rear.  On the right side of the trooper, these are joined by the main, largest panel of the pauldron over the right shoulder.  On the left side, these are joined by a smaller inverted trapezoid panel at the side of the neck.  The pauldron has hems of the same leather or leather like material running around the full inside and outside circumferences of the pauldron.
• The main shoulder area of the pauldron is black.
• A black strap runs under the right arm, attached to the front and back of the pauldron at the points where the front and back ribs meet the largest panel of the pauldron.  Strap is attached to the front and the back using a gunmetal popper or rivet. 
• A black strap, made from leather or leather-like material, extends from the front left corner, under the left arm and attaches at the back left corner.  Attachment is out of sight, under the pauldron.  The strap has a buckle attached under the left armpit that resembles a ratchet-strap, as per the reference image.
• Three ammo cartridges are attached to the strap over the chest.  Each cartridge has a raised U-shaped profile at the bottom, and a recessed rectangular notch in the center of the top.

I ran through this and it appears to be all good from what I can see. I adjusted the color of the main shoulder area to black as I agree with your assessment of it.

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

Cheers. Shoulder armour next? I might have a bit of time today or tomorrow to knock a draft together.

[TK 21814[TX]]

Thanks Team for your continued work on this CRL update. Let me know if you need any specific pics of my kit, or additional captures from the game. Note, my reference pics use a spotlight feature in the game and I also increased the brightness to highlight the details. Things that are back, do look light black or even grey'ish.