Chef

Yes, they come in here. http://forum.specops501st.com/index.php?/forum/40-the-specialist-program/

Looks spanking to me! Swap your biceps round so the little circle details on the greeblies both point forward but other than that... Thats.... Get it in for Specialist too.

Can't argue with that!

The hole has to be open for Specialist. No mesh/fabric etc. As for where the decals go. This regular scout should give you an idea Just use one of the nose bridges and the brow tri-bars. I can't remember which of the TrooperBay ones fit best. Think it's the smaller one. Use all the rear stripes. (put them all on at the same time!!). The snout decal is not required as you've probably painted the snout already.

I've started a preliminary discussion thread here for you Dan. http://forum.specops501st.com/index.php?/topic/3867-crl-discussion-fo-elite-stormtrooper/ I've added in a quick bit of source info that I could drag up off the inter web over a cup of tea.

Proposal is live. For final version, REFERENCE THE CRL DOCUMENT: https://databank.501st.com/databank/Costuming:TX_TFA_elite Starting this here for the Command Team to discuss the proposed CRL for submission of the First Order Elite Stormtrooper. I've placed it here so Dan can be involved seeing as it's his costume. If everyone could refrain from posting 'yeah, great...' or 'I like it' or other such random comments that have no bearing on the discussion please that would be great. If you do have some background information or other source material to add, by all means please do so, but this is not intended to be a general discussion. So without further ado. The FO Elite Stormtrooper for all intents and purposes looks to be a variant of the standard FO Stormtrooper. The CRL above is based on that of the Standard FO Stormtrooper to reflect this, with the changes to colour etc to reflect the differences. Supporting reference material. The Elite Stormtrooper is a release from Disney/Hasbro with the 3.75" Elite Speeder Bike. http://www.hasbro.co...4E-3BD7C01E5236 That's just my quick skim of reference shots. I can't find any supporting reference text (but then I've not looked in any depth yet). Dan has done a rather sterling job at this. I reference his build thread here. http://forum.501stsp...e-stormtrooper/ I can only assume that Dan has done a direct copy of the FO Stormtrooper and amended it to suit the Elite version with the references to black armour and the red stripe? Dan can you confirm? As such the CRL should fall nicely in line with the already set precedent of the regular FO Stormtrooper. My only observations based purely on the very scant info that I have put above is that there may be a question over the Blaster Rifle on the CRL. The source material only seems to show the Elite equipped with the pistol. This would need discussion or some clarification from other source material to suggest their usage. To me it's obvious that they would, but without something to back it up, it may be a point for discussion. There also maybe a little bit of clarification needed on the chest stripe. From the toy.... There seems to be a little 'hook' on the end, where it forms a sort of arrowhead near to the arm. Small detail I know, but you know what they're like. Beyond that, looks pretty solid to me.

I think the process might be in a bit of flux at the moment with the new year, new team and the elections going on... I'm sure there are some fools who might be involved in this process at the moment! hehehehe. But as it stands, this will need to go to the LMO's for ratification. You've got your costume all sorted... check. You've got a proposed CRL together... check You'll need to grab all your reference material that you have to support the build. Pictures, background source info etc. Let's make this easy for the LMO's and take out any ambiguity for them. I think the DL then needs to agree the CRL (That's going to be part of the new system as far as I am aware, so let's work to that from the start). I'll get that started for you. It will then be submitted to the LMO's for approval. I understand that this needs to come from either the DL here, or your own GML.

It won't fall off with just the clips, and depending on how tight you've made the curves it can be pretty difficult to remove 'manually'. If you do still have issues with the little devils trying to pull it off, you can add in one extra level of security (besides breaking their fingers!) and that is make up an 'L' shaped bit of plastic. Glue this in to the top of the main body of the Thermal Det itself, so it creates a vertical that goes down behind the belt. Glue a bit of velcro to the inside of the new bracket and the same on the inside of the belt. That won't go ANYWHERE in a hurry.... And you'll probably need an assistant to get it off. Or you could simply add in a patch of velcro to the tube inside the Thermal Det body, and the same on the outer portion of your belt. To be honest, I've never had an issue with just the clips. It's secure enough to let me know when someone is trying to pull it off. They always try to pull it out, rather than up!

Curving the clips is easy. Just bend them around a pencil or similar. Attaching them can be a bit fiddly. You need to put a rivet (4mm) through the hole and then into the tube on your thermal det. You then need to get a backing washing on, on the INSIDE of the tube (to stop the rivet pulling through), this is the tricky bit as you have to get it on with one finger because the room is very limited. But it is possible though,

Am I the only person who is irked by the helmet change?? It's supposedly set around the time of A New Hope. So why change the helmets? NO NEED!

Difficult to see from the pictures you've got there... It should sit flush. The important things to note. The line of the faceplate is not straight in relation to the rest of the bucket. If you lay it on a table, there should be a gap about 8-10mm from the table to the bottom of the join (arrowed) at the faceplate/main bucket area (if that makes sense), so literally only the very tip of the snout and the back edge of the main bucket touch the table.. The faceplate is ever so slightly tilted forwards. The original ones had this slightly droopy snout. That leads on to.... The area at the arrow in the centre... The gap between the front of the faceplate and the edge of the visor shroud is roughly 25-30mm. This should tilt your faceplate. It should also bring it up a touch. The corners (circled) are the most important bits... They need to be flush on the inside, and the corners lined up. Just go steady in this area as it's not a very precise science. If the corners are lined up nicely, you should find the bottom lines up OK. The centre (arrowed) may push up a bit, but don't worry about this as the top of the visor is supposed to have a slight curve to it. It is a bit of a tricky thing to fit... and it's one of those things that until it's all in the right place, it looks all kinds of wrong. But once it hits the sweet spot, everything falls into place. Hope that helps a little.

Yeah, me too... And not just for Spec Ops. The ability to fine tune the CRL's by those who are 'the most interested' and therefore well up to date on current developments and thinking is downright obvious when you think about it. The LMO's as good as they are, cannot be a font of all knowledge for all costumes. So devolving that power not only gets the right people doing the job, it also reduces their own workload. It's full of win all round.

Er... Pass currently... At the moment (in an administration sense), changes to the CRL's are handled by the LMO, but it is my understanding that the 2016 administration is looking to devolve the powers of adjusting the CRL's down to Detachment level (to reduce the LMO's workload). When this will come into force is as yet unknown. It's election season... Everything goes to rats at this time. In a practical sense, the change is very easy. Just add clips to the holster and have them interchangeable. Just swap one out for the other.

Essentially the whole issue between the Shadow Scout and Storm Commando has been somewhat skewed by some involvement before our own. What we have is this... From the X-Wing series, and the games... Which was used to create the CRL we have now, and in my opinion incorrectly called the Shadow Scout And then this other artwork (which is different to the 'usual') was coined the Storm Commando, to differentiate from the originals. But essentially they are the same thing (as can be deduced from General Weir) This problem occurs because artists are not as consistent as we'd like them to be. So the source material has a number of subtle differences depending on which you choose. Case in point, if you look at the flamethrower guy... His Biceps are clearly supposed to represent the t-bit style ones with the centre detailing part, but they are fundamentally different both in terms of the shape and the detail section itself. Because the artist hasn't adhered to the same design. His interpretation has subtly changed the whole thing (same for the little thigh covers). Now it's not really possible to add in all these little 'tweaks' as options to the CRL because you'd essentially end up with a complete mish-mash of costumes across the board, and the overall effect will be diminished. Now the argument for different weaponry is a little more consistent. It's stated in the written background information and there are a number of bits of artwork to support the notion. As you can see from the above, we've got pistols, rocket launchers. From the GG bust we've got E-11's.... Here we've got heavy emplacement weapons. As well as others depicting detonation charges and mines etc... And the Holsters as alternates to the drop boxes is also fairly consistent amongst the source material too... It can be seen on the GG bust, the Legacy Collection Figure, as well as a couple of the bits of source artwork. So it is my opinion that it is not such a drastic leap to add in the holsters as 'optional' and expand the available weaponry, rather than getting a completely new costume added to the rosters. Obviously, if anyone wants to embark on a complete reference specific build for a new costume, then that's fantastic and we can certainly help down that route. But it is a reasonably long and drawn out process. ***Edit*** You can reply faster than I can type part 2!! heheheheh.

It is a pretty convoluted system that's for sure. In a nutshell it's like this: If a costume CRL already exists, then the clearance of your costume falls to your local GML. If the costume falls outside of the existing CRL's then it gets submitted to the Legion (LMO) for approval. Each CRL has been / is generated from the source material which is generally from the film footage. Where none exists, then it falls to artwork, toys and anything else that comes from an LFL/Disney sanctioned source. But the aim is consistency. When the LMO's look to clear a new costume they look for consistent references for a full 360 degrees around the whole costume head to toe. Now that in itself gets quite restrictive. Fundamentally changing numerous parts of a particular costume to a point that it is noticeably different from it's existing one, usually results in a brand new costume. Which is exactly the case as happened between the standard TIE and the 181st Pilots. There are fundamental differences which required it to be logged under a separate CRL, rather than adding in 'options' to the standard TIE Pilot. There is the 'option' for kneepads on the 181st because I would assume some source artwork showed it with, and some without. But essentially the option list is limited to just that item. So in terms of the Storm Commando, to go creating a raft of different 'options' would create a vastly differing set of costumes under the same banner, and that is something that they try to avoid. So getting that past the LMO Team is largely going to be a very hard task. They no doubt would require a complete new costume, and then limit that to the reference material that supports it. If you look closely at some of the CRL's you'll notice all manner of little things that are wrong. The Holster for Pilots is just one. It was added in so TIE Pilots had somewhere to stash their sidearm rather than having to carry it all the time (or I assume so), yet one was never visible on the costume itself. Same can be said for the Reserve Pilot. That as a 'character' has never existed at all.... yet one has been created. These idiosyncrasies do happen. Having alternates has happened. The distinction between a game referenced Swamp Trooper and the 'real world' based Swamp Trooper has already been made, with the small differences being insisted upon. The person building it was not allowed to pick and choose which elements from either in order to make the costume. They had to strictly adhere to the specific details of the 'game' version. It just is how it is.... So adding a few new weapons and the option of Holsters instead of drop boxes are minor in the grand scheme of things. And that is much more likely to gain traction than trying to seriously alter the CRL. And is a bucket load less work than creating a complete new costume and CRL to match.

Rather than running a PM conversation and this thread containing the same info.... I'll just post in here, and then everyone else can chime in too.... Yeah, I hate the term 'shadow scout' with a passion. It's just cack. Part of the issue we have going on here is that the Storm Commando was never put into anything in a 'canon' sense (i.e. a film) so there was no definitive shape to the costume. It appeared in the X-Wing series which gave it it's most comprehensive visual outline in the shape of a 'black-scout' as we know it now. The waters were muddied somewhat by WEG and other artists who created their own interpretations with varying degrees of differences. In my experience it is always best to refer back to the source that presents the largest amount of reference. So your aim is to create the shoulder rocket launcher, more than the Commando itself, and the base suit is a means to this end yes?? I think this is a slight bit of flawed logic in my opinion, but I'll work with what I've got. I think creating a brand new CRL just to include the Launcher is a bit disingenuous in terms of your reference and direction. I'll explain. You're proposing to make a brand new set of "Commando armour" and a CRL that contains the Launcher from the WEG references that has some slight differences from the standard CRL we have at the moment. Yet the reference to the Launcher IS ALREADY based on the pictures that were used to create the current CRL. So you're combining the Launcher from X-Wing, to the WEG references... I don't think that will fly with the LMO's for one instant. If you create a 'new to the Legion' costume, which this one would be, then you have to go through quite a rigorous process of getting that agreed via the LMO's. The CRL needs to be written, reference pictures covering 360 degree walk-around need to be provided and the costume itself needs to be made and presented before any consideration is even made. So there are a number of major hoops to get through doing down that road. Personally.... My approach would be to just get the Launcher tagged on to the existing CRL as an optional weapon. It's going to be a much simpler solution. The references for the standard Storm Commando already exist. Those existing references contain the very Launcher you're proposing, so everything ties up nice and neatly. The arguments for their usage/inclusion are right there in the reference material. There's no inference or suggestion. It's there.... FACT. And in that instance, all that will be required is the making of the Launcher. These can then be submitted to the Detachment for reference and consideration and I think I am correct in saying that in this new term (2016), the 'Detachments' have the ability to amend the CRL's as they see fit and not have to go through the LMO's. This gives a larger amount of flexibility. The CRL's for Spec Ops are sketchy at best... That's because we are the bastard child of the detachments who no-one really cares about (only those of us in it...). So the CRL's are overlooked, the costumes aren't really given any attention and as such they are just left alone to gather holes. But when the Detachment gets the ability to edit them, this can change. The Storm Commando by it's very description eludes to the usage of a wide variety of weaponry (incidentally specifically including the long range rocket rifle), so what is currently in the CRL definitely stands to be expanded upon, and I would suggest to include ALL current SW universe weaponry... both Empire and Rebel. The problem we have is the way that the Legion works... Everything is off structured reference, and whilst being part of the Expanded Universe gives us certain elements of freedom, it is also it's major drawback. Because each and every thing tends to have some variance, it's difficult in getting them past the LMO's to be actually 'cleared'. And you can't really 'mix and match' bits in a CRL for a number of different optional troop types. They are either 'one or the other'. So if you wished to make those subtle armour changes, then it probably would come down to a complete new CRL and the process that that entails. It could probably be swung that the drop boxes are replaced with a holster of some description (there is certainly some argument from the reference material to support this), but I think that is about as far as we could possibly push the CRL options before we run into the territory of 'completely new costume'. I don't think there is a requirement to have holsters commensurate with the weapon carried... After all, Snowies don't have a holster at all. Expanding the range of 'allowable' weapons is certainly a relatively straightforward idea and one that should not necessarily encounter too many problems. You say your aim is an accurate and realistic Storm Commando... I'd say we're not far off..... I understand that you're basing that very statement from 'one of the different artworks', but that is essentially my point. With such varying artworks, it's not entirely possible to make one 'accurate and realistic' to ALL of them. We end up having to choose the one which is the most consistent. And that is the X-Wing type. It might not 'fit' what you personally think a Commando should look like, but unfortunately that is the most consistent set of references. It's not about being festooned with different weapons either... In nearly all of the references the Commando's are only depicted with a primary and secondary weapon at most. Just because they are trained to use 'every weapon' doesn't mean that they'll carry them all at the same time! I'd like to think in a real world scenario, they would be 'mission appropriate'. I mean, I was in the Army and was a Scout/Sniper. I wouldn't necessarily always take out my L96, especially in a FIBUA environment. It wasn't practical. Personally I think that the subtle changes of allowing holsters instead of drop boxes and then 'any weapon' to the CRL is probably going to be the most achievable solution at this stage. Anything more is likely to run into some serious issues with the LMO's. Once those changes are in place, your local GML won't have any recourse to say it is 'unclearable'. This is the only image of the 'flame thrower' that I have... It's actual source I'm not sure of. It may just be 'fan art'.

Shadow Commando??? Where have you found that? I think you mean Storm Commando. This has also been a large bugbear of mine (considering I like everything Scout!). The term "Storm Commando" is the actual reference to the troop type that people call the "shadow scout". The Source information is pretty vast on this. General Weir, http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Weir http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Storm_commandos Even the defected Crix Madine.... http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Crix_Madine/Legends The moniker of "shadow scout" would appear to be a derogatory term used by Rebel Alliance forces, also including "Black Hats", "Shadow-men" and "Shadows". Couple that with a legion propensity to call every thing that's black in Spec Ops "Shadow - whatever...." and this is what you get. Let's remember the shadow-storm trooper is in fact a "BlackHole Trooper". But what you refer to is the differences in 'artists impressions'. Which is a completely different ball game altogether. Because there was never any 'canon' source in so far as a costume that was put in a film, it's always been open to a little interpretation and this has muddied the waters a bit. For me, the Storm Commando is exactly that... A Storm Commando. The Scout derivative that we all know, because it is the most consistent image from the available source material. Even the toys seem to follow a similar pattern now. All the others are just artist variants, and whilst they could be made, and could be 'cleared' (although the 360 degree ref might not fly), they should just be designated as 'Storm Commando - WEG Variant" or what ever the source material refers to. What I do propose is that we STOP calling them Shadow Scouts.... And start referring to them as their proper troop designation. And change the CRL to reflect the same.

Depending on your height.... The gap between the bottom of the belt and the top of the box, and the bottom of the box and the top of the strap on your thigh should be roughly the same. It's normally about 3" below the belt line.

Modding a standard coverall is generally the way to go (redkap for you guys in the states). The most complicated part is the crotch patch. But just use the suit as your template and you won't go far wrong.

Last ones for sure... Gloves... Just shove 'em on!

Looking sweet buddy. That drop strap on the shoulder should be fine. Technically not there, but should be OK.

It is my understanding that the CRL for this does not exist currently. I can't check as the main 501st boards are down at the moment). That's not to say that this is not possible... just that no-one has done so yet. It would need to be a new costume submission to the Legion. There is a process for that, one which here at Spec Ops we're well versed with. So gather your references, build the armour and we'll guide you through it. Cheers Rob.

So there you go... my info isn't always correct. Partially correct... but not fully. To elaborate. In order to go down the 'blue' tube stripes route, the ENTIRE costume would need to be replicated (ROTJ Armour, chest cog, blue stripes etc) and presented as a completely new 'variant'. And not just pick up 'elements' of the different variants to suit your own particular build. So yes, the new BattleFront BlackHole stormtrooper is now 'canon' as it has appeared in a licenced LFL/Disney release, but as yet it is NOT on a CRL. To have this 'approved', it would need to be built as per the reference and submitted to the Legion as a new costume type for it's own specific CRL. The same as any 'new to the legion' costume. I hope this makes some sense.

Yes, 2" for the vest as well as the bund. You may also want to enlarge the neck area a bit too. The vest traces quite a wide neck. Looking tidy though.

Well, they're visible and that's all that really counts to be honest. You should be able to get varying thickness of quilt wadding, say 2oz, 4oz, 6oz etc. Can't remember off hand how thick mine is. It's not like a winter duvet, but it's not thin either.