Shadow Stormtrooper (Force Unleashed) CRL Proposal

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Yeah I know, it was a bit easier to type separately (as I just copied and pasted the text posted on the forums). I was hoping to get it combined tonight, but ran out of time. And yep, yep, yep and yep to your questions! I know it's a bit of a weird combination, but that's how it is. The black rivets could be interpreted as holes, but in other lighting they look like proper domed rivets (I can get a better picture if we need it for clarification). Personally I think rivets will look better in the long run. Here's a quick picture with the rivets circled.

Nope those pics satisfy my questions. Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mikedwelle94[TX]]

While I understand the argument against lightsabers being allowed, the fact of the matter is that there is visual evidence of this trooper holding and using one. It doesn't matter if it's a player skin or if it makes sense canonically - if you can see it in the source material, it should be fair game for costuming. If you don't like the idea of wielding the saber, leave it as an optional accessory and carry an E-11. But I implore you to not lock out the option to those of us who took the time to build this costume with the hopes of being an undercover Starkiller in disguise. It's not entirely fair to the rest of us who want to do so alongside the rest of legion's TFU troopers.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

 

23 minutes ago, SolidScrafty said:

While I understand the argument against lightsabers being allowed, the fact of the matter is that there is visual evidence of this trooper holding and using one. It doesn't matter if it's a player skin or if it makes sense canonically - if you can see it in the source material, it should be fair game for costuming. If you don't like the idea of wielding the saber, leave it as an optional accessory and carry an E-11. But I implore you to not lock out the option to those of us who took the time to build this costume with the hopes of being an undercover Starkiller in disguise. It's not entirely fair to the rest of us who want to do so alongside the rest of legion's TFU troopers.

There is visual evidence of Starkiller (as a skin) in this costume...not a TFU Shadowtrooper...this CRL is specifically for TFU Shadowtroopers.  Precedent in the Legion would not support the costume in my opinion...to me it falls in line w/ Finn as FOTK (not-approvable within the 501st) or Han and Luke TKs.  At this point, the general consensus and precedent among the CRL team and @Fivezero is that the sabers should not be included in the Shadowtrooper CRL.  What you are advocating for is a Starkiller Shadowtrooper...those are the references provided that have the sabers,  not a standard trooper which is our focus here.  I respectfully disagree w/ the position of tossing out the place of the costume within the Star Wars universe.  That does (and has in other situations) played a role.  I'm open-minded however and will at the least consult the LMOs.

Out of curiosity, are there other differences between the Starkiller skin aside from the lightsabers?

[Fivezero[TX]]

Hey SolidScrafty, I do understand the argument you're making. I still disagree with adding the saber (and disagree with FISD having it in their CRLs). As @Raider mentioned, this CRL is for the Shadow Stormtrooper, not Starkiller in disguise. Every Shadow Stormtrooper you meet in-game as an enemy is equipped with an E-11, not a lightsaber. And as I mentioned before, the Shadow Stormtrooper is not one of the default Starkiller costumes in the game that you get through progression. There is not a single mission where you are sneaking around as any of the troopers in disguise. All of this also applies to my EVO Trooper as well as the Jumptrooper that I'm currently building. All I want to do is make sure we're accurately representing these troopers as they appear as the enemies in the game, and make sure the standard reflects that for future Legion members.

As I mentioned earlier, the LMO questioned the legitimacy of my screenshots and this trooper due to that lightsaber when I submitted my Shadow Stormtrooper. He thought it was a custom skin added to the game, I had to send in shots of the trooper as they appear naturally (i.e. with a blaster), to confirm it was a real trooper and not a fan creation. Thus, the saber was left off for the initial CRL draft that was submitted.

 

With all of this said, feel free to wear a lightsaber at troops! There's nothing stopping you other some words, we're just asking to leave it off for approval, that's all. After that, do what you want! I just trooped with my Elite Novatrooper at Celebration, I had an E-11 on my belt and a custom cellphone/wallet pouch. Sometimes I throw on a TD when I'm not wearing the pack. None of this is in the CRL for the Elite Nova.

 

As for the differences between the skin and the trooper, I don't believe there are any actual differences aside from the saber. But I can double check tomorrow just in case. I know on the Jumptrooper and the EVO trooper, the belt pouches get rotated to clear the saber.

[mikedwelle94[TX]]

3 minutes ago, Raider said:

 

There is visual evidence of Starkiller (as a skin) in this costume...not a TFU Shadowtrooper...this CRL is specifically for TFU Shadowtroopers.  Precedent in the Legion would not support the costume in my opinion...to me it falls in line w/ Finn as FOTK (not-approvable within the 501st) or Han and Luke TKs.  At this point, the general consensus and precedent among the CRL team and @Fivezero is that the sabers should not be included in the Shadowtrooper CRL.  What you are advocating for is a Starkiller Shadowtrooper, not a standard trooper which is our focus here.  I respectfully disagree w/ the position of tossing out the place of the costume within the Star Wars universe.  That does (and has in other situations) played a role.  I'm open-minded however and will at the least consult the LMOs.

Out of curiosity, are there other differences between the Starkiller skin aside from the lightsabers?

The enemy AI Shadow Trooper and the Starkiller skin are identical in every way, no one would know otherwise until they see the weapon. While Finn, Han, and Luke aren't 501st approvable characters, Starkiller himself happens to be. If someone wanted to be cheeky and apply to the 501st as a "Starkiller ShadowTrooper," the source material technically exists for it. That would be silly, of course, because it would require a totally separate CRL.  I hope a fair compromise would be to consider allowing the saber as an optional accessory for those who want to play pretend Starkiller on the occasional fun convention troop, and still have it count officially. No one seems to mind whenever a TK Commander shows up with a saber, at least not in my garrison. I imagine those members of the public who played the game get a kick out of seeing it.

If the majority would rather troop with an E-11, they are still free to do so (I was planning on doing the same 90% of the time anyway). I don't think it will hurt the detachment or detract from the costume in any way to toss in an extra option for some folks - it may even prove to be an added incentive for some to build the costume in the first place. It was for me. I do appreciate yours and the detachment's open-mindedness and I'm glad to see the costume is still being discussed. Whatever the official decision comes to, it doesn't affect whether or not I decide to submit this costume. ?

[mikedwelle94[TX]]

 

50 minutes ago, Fivezero said:

Hey SolidScrafty, I do understand the argument you're making. I still disagree with adding the saber (and disagree with FISD having it in their CRLs). As @Raider mentioned, this CRL is for the Shadow Stormtrooper, not Starkiller in disguise. Every Shadow Stormtrooper you meet in-game as an enemy is equipped with an E-11, not a lightsaber. And as I mentioned before, the Shadow Stormtrooper is not one of the default Starkiller costumes in the game that you get through progression. There is not a single mission where you are sneaking around as any of the troopers in disguise. All of this also applies to my EVO Trooper as well as the Jumptrooper that I'm currently building. All I want to do is make sure we're accurately representing these troopers as they appear as the enemies in the game, and make sure the standard reflects that for future Legion members.

As I mentioned earlier, the LMO questioned the legitimacy of my screenshots and this trooper due to that lightsaber when I submitted my Shadow Stormtrooper. He thought it was a custom skin added to the game, I had to send in shots of the trooper as they appear naturally (i.e. with a blaster), to confirm it was a real trooper and not a fan creation. Thus, the saber was left off for the initial CRL draft that was submitted.

 

With all of this said, feel free to wear a lightsaber at troops! There's nothing stopping you other some words, we're just asking to leave it off for approval, that's all. After that, do what you want! I just trooped with my Elite Novatrooper at Celebration, I had an E-11 on my belt and a custom cellphone/wallet pouch. Sometimes I throw on a TD when I'm not wearing the pack. None of this is in the CRL for the Elite Nova.

 

As for the differences between the skin and the trooper, I don't believe there are any actual differences aside from the saber. But I can double check tomorrow just in case. I know on the Jumptrooper and the EVO trooper, the belt pouches get rotated to clear the saber.

I recognize these are all fair points, and I don't disagree with anyone about any of them.  My biggest issue was that of us taking a different direction from the FISD's troopers, and that someone wearing a TKC/Saber setup can have their troop count officially while a Shadow has to ask for permission first (and possibly get told no). My garrison is pretty chill about this kind of thing, but I can imagine other garrisons are pickier about what kinds of extra accessories are considered okay to add onto a costume. I just want to make sure everyone gets treated equally across the board and the easiest way to "force" that is by including the accessory in question into the CRL (as long as visual evidence exists). Whether it goes one way or the other, it won't affect my desire to submit and troop the costume.  

I prefer, like the rest of you, that the costume is represented accurately in public. But I'd also like to see consistency across detachments when it comes to similar costumes. Should we ask the LMOs to take lightsabers away from the FISD? I don't think that would go down without a heated debate. I will withdraw my argument, but I'd at least like to see an LMO team member chime in.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

I've contacted our LMO reps for Spec Ops...they've given me an initial response, but will mull it over further.  I will update once they've had more time to think it through.

I will say...pointing to FISD as to why we should allow it...that standard and logic cuts both ways.  We can just as easily point to our CRL and cite it for why the sabers should be removed from the FISD CRLs.  As you stated, FISD compliance with that wouldn't be expected. Likewise, it shouldn't be expected in reverse as well (in this case to Spec Ops). Detachments do have a level of autonomy from one another.

I'd also add that items can be removed as readily as they can be added...reference the use of FX helmets for TKs...once allowable but no longer.  Just because something is allowed doesn't necessarily make that the best decision or standard.  Standards and "rules" (none really written in stone) evolve from year to year as LMO teams change (for better or worse).  LMOs aren't perfect...one rejecting the sabers can be viewed as a "mistake" just as a previous accepting them could be as well (which is my personal stance on the issue though I don't have a stake in the outcome aside from following what I think is the best course for the CRL and our detachment).

In any case, thanks for presenting your case.  I do appreciate the dialogue.  No need to withdraw your stance...we respect it and we may very well be missing an angle on this.  As I said above, I'll update on what the current LMO team suggests asap and we will go from there.  It is my goal to see this CRL greenlit for the entire community this term and I think we have the momentum to get it done sooner than later regardless.  Thanks again!!!

[Fivezero[TX]]

I won't comment too much more on the lightsaber issue, other than to say even if the LMOs decide to include it, I will of course step aside on the issue. I won't stonewall this CRL over a lightsaber. This CRL has been in limbo for about 4 years or so, it's definitely time to get it done.

To get this thing rolling again, I'll sit down tonight to combine the L1 and L2 requirements into a single draft, as well as confirming the little details for the L2 requirements. Also I grabbed out my armor last night. Some parts aren't as bad as I initially thought, but will still need repairs. The forearms will need to be remade however (gotta get rid of that awful EL tape around the top and bottom). The big thing with my rebuild is using a new power source, the cheap little batteries I used are awful. So I'll start taking photos of what parts I can.

[Fivezero[TX]]

Alright here's the updated CRL with L2 requirements integrated. All dimensions that were in question before have been measured on the 3D model. I did find a couple other small details and made the appropriate changes.

 

Helmet

For 501st approval:

• Lenses must be sufficiently dark enough to obscure the costumer's eyes. They may be flat or bubbled. Blue lighting shines around and on to the lenses.

• The body of the "ears" is metallic silver. The bars have three or four bumps and are dark gray in color.

• The frown must have 8 teeth cut out. Blue lighting shines through the spaces between the teeth.

• The tube stripes may number between 9 and 15 per side with the curve bends extending backwards. Blue lighting shines through the tube stripes. If the helmet is not made from clear plastic, the tube stripes must be cut out to allow the light to shine through.

• Vocoder (vertically ribbed chin detail) is black.

• The aerators (cylinders on either side of the vocoder) are black, and screening is silver.

• Traps (trapezoids on dome of helmet) and tears (area beneath the corners of eye lenses) may be hand painted or decals and are dark gray in color. Rear traps and tears have vertical black lines.

• Note: The helmet is accurate in detail and proportion to official references.

• Many commercially available helmets or those considered disproportionate in size or shape are ineligible.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Ears shall have three screws per side, one above and one below the ear bar and one at the base of the helmet.

• Ear bars should have four bumps only, not three.

• The drop from the ears must also bend towards the back of the helmet, instead of vertically.

• Traps/tears and tube stripes shall have the correct ANH TK details.

• Correct 'Hovi mic' aerator tips.

• FX/AM helmets are not allowed.

• Neck trim shall be of an s-type profile rather than a u-type profile.

Neck Seal

For 501st approval:

• Black with horizontal ribs, fitted to the wearer, and extending from the base of the neck to the top of the Adam's apple.

Shoulder Straps

For 501st approval:

• These must be securely mounted in front and may free float in back.

• The shoulder straps are metallic silver in color

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• These shall free float in back.

• These shall be glued in front.

• The plastic shoulder straps need to be held down in the back via a metallic silver elastic band to the black fabric that connects/bridges the chest and back piece.

Shoulder Armor

For 501st approval:

• One on each shoulder. The shoulder bells are considered effectively symmetrical; they may be worn interchangeably on the left and right shoulders.

• The shoulder bells are constructed of clear plastic with a broad gloss black stripe covering much of the shoulder bell.

• The shoulder bells have broad blue lighting that shines through the sides of the shoulder bell and a thin strip of blue lighting that shines through the bottom edge of the shoulder bell.

Upper Arm Armor

For 501st approval:

• Biceps are fully closed.

• Biceps are metallic silver in color.

Forearm Armor

For 501st approval:

• Forearms must appear to be fully sealed and enclosed.

• Forearms are metallic silver in color and may be constructed of clear plastic or opaque plastic.

• Blue lighting shines through the top and bottom circumference and through the depressions along the top ridge. If the forearm is made from opaque plastic, the ridge depressions need to be cut to allow the light to shine through.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• No return edge on the inside of the front of the forearm is allowed.

Handplates

For 501st approval:

• Roughly pentagonal in shape, the hand plates are mounted securely over the back of the glove. As an alternative to plastic, these may be made out of latex or latex-like material.

• The hand plates are metallic silver in color.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Hand guards shall be latex or latex-like, painted metallic silver, affixed to rubber gloves in lieu of plastic hand guards.

Gloves

For 501st approval:

• Black in color made of rubber, nomex, leather, or leather-like material, with no visible straps or logos/designs. The fingers are enclosed, non-textured.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Gloves shall be rubber or rubber-like chemical gloves, in black.

Chest Armor

For 501st approval:

• Chest plate overlaps the abdominal plate.

• The top of the chest plate is semi-gloss medium gray while the bottom is metallic silver in color.

• Blue lighting is present along the bottom edge and shines on to the abdominal plate.

• A metallic silver, flexible U-shaped gasket or molded lip is present around all edges.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Chest and back shall be connected with a black fabric or preferably elastic strap at the shoulders

Back Armor

For 501st approval:

• Back plate contains a "O II" design with little or no overlap of the kidney plate.

• Back plate is metallic silver in color.

• A metallic silver, flexible U-shaped gasket or molded lip is present around all edges.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Back plate shall have no, or minimal overlap of the kidney plate.

Under Suit

For 501st approval:

• Black non-textured material, either one-piece or two-piece construction with no visible zippers or logos.

Abdomen Armor

For 501st approval:

• The abdomen armor is semi-gloss medium gray in color.

• The abdomen armor has a button area with 10 black buttons of approximately 7/16" in diameter.

• Abdomen armor button detail is inverted compared to ANH/ESB.

• A metallic silver, flexible U-shaped gasket or molded lip is present around the sides and top of the abdomen plate but does not extend around the cod plate.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Ideally there should be no gap between the ab and kidney plates, just a single visible seam line.

• Four rivets on both sides of the ab plate: two on each side, the heads should be rounded or domed, solid, approximately 5/16" (8mm) diameter and equally spaced out along the depth of the armor and about 10mm from the edge. They must be painted semi-gloss medium gray. Paperclip brads are not considered to have a domed head. Note: For the original TK armor the type of rivets used were bifurcated rivets or split rivets.

• Correct sized buttons on the Ab Plate (7/16”) and must be gloss black in color.

 

Kidney Armor

For 501st approval:

• It is allowable to have a single kidney/posterior armor for 501st requirements. If a separate kidney plate is used, it should line up with the ab plate, with the top of the kidney plate being flush to or under the back plate.

• The kidney plate is metallic silver in color.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Four rivets shall be present on the both sides of the kidney plate (two on each side), the heads should be rounded or domed, solid, approximately 5/16"(8mm) diameter and equally spaced out along the depth of the armor and about 10mm from the edge. They must be painted black. Paperclip brads are not considered to have a domed head. Note: For the original TK armor the type of rivets used were bifurcated rivets or split rivets.
  

Posterior Armor

For 501st approval:

• It is allowable to have a single kidney/posterior armor for 501st requirements. If a separate butt plate is used, it should line up below the bottom of the belt with the ab plate, with minimal gap between it and the kidney plate.

• The butt plate is semi-gloss medium gray in color.

Belt

For 501st approval:

• Belt face is made of plastic (ammo belt). It is comprised of 6 rectangular boxes, with two square buttons, one on each end.

• Belt proper is metallic silver and color and must be 2 to 3.5" wide and can be made with plastic or fabric.

• Back of the belt has blue lighting that shines onto the posterior armor.

• The drop boxes dangle from the sides of the plastic belt face via black straps and are aligned under the square button of the ammo belt. These are semi-gloss medium gray in color.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Drop boxes must be attached using gray elastic that closely matches the color of the armor and must have full inner drop boxes to close the back. Flat covers are not allowed.

• Drop boxes are vertically aligned with the end of the ammo belt with a 1/2” (13mm) gap between belt and box.

• The corners of the plastic ammo belt shall be trimmed with a small 45 degree angle on the top and a broad curved cut along the bottom edge.
  

• Belt proper is thinner than standard TK-style belts, being 2” (50mm) wide with the top aligned with the bottom of the 45 degree cut.

• Eight rivets shall be present on the belt proper (arranged in pairs), the heads should be rounded or domed, solid, approximately 1/4" (6mm) diameter. And spaced out to match reference pictures. They must be painted black. Paperclip brads are not considered to have a domed head. Note: For the original TK armor the type of rivets used were bifurcated rivets or split rivets.

Thermal Detonator

For 501st approval:

• (a.k.a. O2 canister) attaches to the back of the belt. This is a cylinder 2 to 2.5" in diameter with metallic silver end caps and a metallic silver control panel pad, with controls closest to the right end cap.

• Blue lighting shines through the main cylinder body.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• O2 canister should have a large block that is attached to the belt in place of clips.  This block can be secured with a discrete method (rivets, Velcro, bolts, or similar method) to the belt.

Thigh Armor

For 501st approval:

• The thigh armor may open and firmly close in the back allowing the two halves to appear sealed when viewed by spectators.

• The thigh armor is semi-gloss medium gray in color.

• The ammo belt is installed on the bottom of the right thigh and is metallic silver in color.

• The ammo belt has blue lighting behind it, shining on to the thigh.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• The edges of the thigh ammo belt shall be cut straight.

• The ends of the thigh ammo belt shall be angled upward and attached above the bottom ridge of the armor.

Lower Leg Armor

For 501st approval:

• The shin armor is able to open and firmly close in the back allowing the two halves to appear sealed when viewed by spectators.

• The trapezoid knee plate is affixed to the top of the left shin and is metallic silver, with the central hexagon being semi-gloss medium gray.

• The shin armor is metallic silver in color.

• Blue lighting shines through and along the bottom edge of the armor.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Sniper knee plate must be aligned with the ridges on the shin.

• Sniper knee plate must not have visible rivets or fasteners attaching it to the shin.

Boots

For 501st approval:

• Dark gray leather or leather-like, above ankle height, with a flat sole, and small U-shaped elastic sections on both sides of the ankle with no buckles or laces. Jodphur-type boots or an equivalent style. All stitching must be dark gray, and unnecessary or decorative stitching must not be present. Elvis / Mariachi boots are not acceptable.

• A red stripe is present around the front of the boot.

• White or other color boots may be painted dark gray so long as the boots are maintained to remain the proper color.

[Fivezero[TX]]

When I was collecting the necessary measurements for the belt and rivets, I noticed the drop boxes has a small 1/2" gap between it and the belt. Also the strap that connects it to the belt, is the same gray as the drop box (and the rest of the armor). I added these details to the L2 requirements. Otherwise just made some small corrections and merged everything into one document.

Additionally there is only one drop box (on the left side) in the reference pics. This is probably to accommodate the lightsaber in the same manner that the pouches on my EVO Trooper get rotated to prevent the models clipping. I need to boot the game up and find some Shadow Stormtroopers to see if this feature extends to them, or is only part of the Starkiller skin.

[mikedwelle94[TX]]

Can I be a pain the rear end about one more thing? ?

"A metallic silver, flexible U-shaped gasket or molded lip is present around the sides and top of the abdomen plate but does not extend around the cod plate."

In the a few of the screenshots I took on my Xbox One, you can see the molded lip around the cod. In some of shots we shared here, you can't see it -  but it's an older game running on an older console so some details are probably going to be missed at times depending on how zoomed in the model is. 

Thanks for the write up, 5-0. I'm looking forward to seeing this get the green light.

[Fivezero[TX]]

No worries at all SolidScrafty!

Yeah, the gasket around the cod can be interpreted either way. I chose to leave it off on this CRL draft based on the 3D model as well as shots similar to the ones below. I chalk it up to a lighting/texture bug with the gray armor. Seeing it real time on my computer recently, it doesn't stand significantly enough for me to say there is a gasket there (and that's with it zoomed in). The same effect happens at the top of the thigh armor. It's just the hard 90 degree edge of the model messing with the texture.  In many of my shots it looks undefined compared to rest of the molded edges. So I say we leave it off just to be safe. Additionally, I was partially drawing off of my EVO Trooper, which very clearly does not have the gasket on the cod.

Here's the 3D model. Unlike the chest, back and ab plate, there is no clearly defined gasket geometry. It's just a flat edge.

Here's some shots where, the gasket disappears instead of being clearly defined like the chest/back. Especially that third photo. You can also see where the light creates a "gasket" effect on the tops of the thighs (especially photo 2 and 3).

 

[mikedwelle94[TX]]

Okay, I see that now.  I wasn't aware the actual 3D model was missing that detail up to this point. Knowing this, I still may try to get my armor approved the way I have it now and supply my screenshots with my app. Most of my kit is a Rubies with a few WTF parts, so the ridge is built in. I'd have to take a cutting wheel to the armor, and I'm hesitant to do that until I'm told I have to!

[Fivezero[TX]]

Hey everyone, been busy moving truck projects, getting our military vehicles out and ready for the show season as well as finishing up body work on my 71 Chevelle.

So quick update, I was able to get my armor out and start laying down some new paint to refresh the armor. I've got a few repairs to make, but I'll start taking new photos for the CRL this week. We've got a military vehicle show coming up, so I won't be able to get them all done, but I'll get the ball rolling.

I also welded up a new frame for my small vacuum form table as well as making some plaster molds so I can pull some clear forearms!

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Hey @Fivezero how is progress on this amigo?

[Fivezero[TX]]

Hey, sorry not much to report... Haven't had time to work on trooper stuff in a while, been a bit busy getting my Chevelle ready for paint (almost there) and as usual been busy with our halftrack (and working on the cannon replica behind it).

 

With that said I have been back working on this trooper here and there this past week. Got the thighs cleaned up and repainted this morning, painted the buttons on my ab plate and added the gasket, and cleaned up much of the armor parts. Still have to make up a new belt, new forearms as well as repairing the shoulders, shins and a couple cracks on the back plate. I just got my CRL photo booth set back up (been awhile!), so I hope to start getting pictures taken this week.

 

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Wow, those other projects are pretty sweet as well! 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

@Fivezero  Thanks man!  Just checkin in!  Good to hear you're good man!

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

damn, a track! M3 or M16?    

[Fivezero[TX]]

Been a minute! Bringing this post back from the dead @nanotek @IcyTrooper. I rewrote the CRL proposal based on the latest Shadow Stormtrooper CRL that is posted, changing and adding details as necessary for this Shadow Stormtrooper. First post in this thread has been edited with my latest text.

Have a look when you can. Obviously let's get the Jumptrooper finished first, but I wanted to get this posted and get the discussion going again.

I will probably start taking CRL photos soon (in the next week or two). I'm at that point in my rebuild, where I want to get the CRL photos taken before I start strapping the armor together.

[nanotek[CMD-DWM]]

Thanks. Yes was eyeing this one up on the side