New CRL Proposal - Mudtrooper

[RAIDER[COTG]]

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Absolutely. That was always the plan.

It seems we are agreed then on the buckle. I (when Im at a pc) or Blackwatch will make those adjustments.

I would like some feedback on shin continuity w the Shoretrooper. Yay or nay (see above)?

Verifying there are no qualms to label the hoses as “black” in color?



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[JAFO[501st]]

Here is some suggested text for the SHINS...

 

SHINS

·      The shin plates (greaves) attach directly to the front of the boots using two rubber straps that thread through the back of the greaves.

·      Each strap affixes on the outer edge of the boot via a cam style buckle.

·      The rubber straps are ribbed, and equal in size, approx. 1.5” (38mm) wide.

·      Straps extend from each buckle, and the inner side of the greaves.

·      A “T” shaped knee plate is affixed to both greaves and angles slightly away from the knee.

·      The ‘T” shaped plate features a slightly curved rectangle feature that follows the upper edge. The rectangle is raised.

·      Two triangular ‘knuckles’ are evident beneath the “T” shaped knee plate.

·      The greaves feature vertical indents and recessed rectangles that should match the reference image.

·      The bottom of the greaves angle outward to follow the curvature of the boot/foot.

·      Shins are matte olive green (similar to Pantone 350U) with heavy weathering. 

 

And specifying that the hoses are black makes absolute sense.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Original CRL post updated at top of thread.

Please review items in detail (including punctuation/grammar/etc.).  There is alot of text (which makes for alot of room for error), so please double check EVERY SINGLE measurement and color reference in particular...that they are the correct number and wording...and are consistent throughout the CRL where applicable.

Scarf added.  Shins updated (review).

 

To address some previous questions from much earlier in the discussion that we never really discussed:

1) Gloves.  We will keep them as a requirement.

2) Biceps.  Fish hook detail.  Need to review.

3) Tunic.  Material specified is L2.  Additionally, patch has no material specified.  As it is L2, I feel we can specify the material (PVC).  Will update if no issues.

4) Boots.  Marking them as not vinyl or PVC is currently listed as an L2 requirement.

5) Optional items.  We need to finalize optional pieces and arrangements.  Appears there was some discussion as to additional pieces beyond the 3 currently listed.  In particular, there was made mention of a bandolier, grenades, and blasters.  Need to complete.

 

Final stretch folks.  Then we will arrange the order and submit.  Thanks!

[JAFO[501st]]

Still question the pants description. It reads like no pockets are allowed at all whereas I believe hip pockets should be acceptable as they can’t be seen, and production pants had them.

 

I think it should specify no “visible pockets or other leg adornments”

 

 

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[RAIDER[COTG]]

8 minutes ago, JAFO said:

Still question the pants description. It reads like no pockets are allowed at all whereas I believe hip pockets should be acceptable as they can’t be seen, and production pants had them.

 

I think it should specify no “visible pockets or other leg adornments”

 

 

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Understood.  I looked through our current ref pics and can't see the pockets.  I think specifying them as not being visible is reasonable.

[areilly]

On 8/10/2018 at 7:18 PM, Raider said:

Optional Accessories

Ammo Pouch

Yugoslavian M49 - M56 SMG style ammo pouch or replica. Replica must be made from leather or leather-like material.
Pouch is fitted with two straps.
Left strap is snapped to the underside of the abdomen.
Right strap lays across chest plate. Snaps to the upper right side of the abdomen.

Upper strap goes over the right shoulder, and the lower strap goes across to the left side of the chest under the left arm.
Pouches shall be weathered or otherwise aged.

Oiler pouch may optionally be worn on upper strap of pouch.

This is mostly from the Shoretrooper, and in particular the under the abdomen bit isn’t right. also we can’t say for sure that they’re using snaps since the attachment points seem to be tucked away, although they might be. Overall it’s slung from the right shoulder to the left side of the chest around the left armpit, so perhaps worded like this:

Upper strap goes over the right shoulder, and the lower strap goes across to the left side of the chest under the left arm.

Also a mention of the Oiler pouch, which is seen on some troopers, but not all:

Oiler pouch may optionally be worn on upper strap of pouch.

[JAFO[501st]]

This is mostly from the Shoretrooper, and in particular the under the abdomen bit isn’t right. also we can’t say for sure that they’re using snaps since the attachment points seem to be tucked away, although they might be. Overall it’s slung from the right shoulder to the left side of the chest around the left armpit, so perhaps worded like this:
Upper strap goes over the right shoulder, and the lower strap goes across to the left side of the chest under the left arm.
Also a mention of the Oiler pouch, which is seen on some troopers, but not all:
Oiler pouch may optionally be worn on upper strap of pouch.

We’ve seen the Yugo Ammo Pouch worn on right chest, left chest, and from left waist. We should probably allow for that flexibility.


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[RAIDER[COTG]]

I also totally forgot to add the line about black foam to the black plate.  Doing that now.

[izzi[TX]]

Just getting back on track from my time away for the job transition. I have a few thoughts that I will type up later have the review the reference material again.

One item I would like to note is the bicep color requirement for level two. put the colors up as (Most accurate color is:_____) under the level 1 requirements I think would be best. Requiring those exact brands of color for level 2 is inconsistent with the rest of our level two requirements in our current CRLs, and another brand, or custom mix that accomplishes the color match should be allowed. Think of it as saying "Leather soviet officer boot or reproduction."

 

-iz

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

On 10/22/2018 at 10:48 AM, Raider said:

To address some previous questions from much earlier in the discussion that we never really discussed:

2) Biceps.  Fish hook detail.  Need to review.

3) Tunic.  Material specified is L2.  Additionally, patch has no material specified.  As it is L2, I feel we can specify the material (PVC).  Will update if no issues.

I added the L2 requirement for the patches to the description on the first page

5) Optional items.  We need to finalize optional pieces and arrangements.  Appears there was some discussion as to additional pieces beyond the 3 currently listed.  In particular, there was made mention of a bandolier, grenades, and blasters.  Need to complete.

Per izzis recommendation I updated the L2 color for the bicep

I am still reviewing it for punctuation and spelling. 

Final stretch folks.  Then we will arrange the order and submit.  Thanks!

 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

 

OK I found this. Upon reading it, it the math doesnt work. 

Lower Belt - Webbing

Belt is black and is made from two nylon web straps sewn together with a zig-zag pattern which is approximately 3" (76.2mm) wide.

The belt features five boxes.  1 x standard drop box, 2 x small, 2 x medium, 1 x long drop box.

Boxes shall be painted the same colour as the chest plate and moderately weathered.

Belt shall be worn loose across lower abdomen.

[JAFO[501st]]

14 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

 

OK I found this. Upon reading it, it the math doesnt work. 

Lower Belt - Webbing

Belt is black and is made from two nylon web straps sewn together with a zig-zag pattern which is approximately 3" (76.2mm) wide.

The belt features five boxes.  1 x standard drop box, 2 x small, 2 x medium, 1 x long drop box.

Boxes shall be painted the same colour as the chest plate and moderately weathered.

Belt shall be worn loose across lower abdomen.

It’s six.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Fixed belt box count.  Added oiler pouch.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

@Blackwatch Are you able to edit my original thread post?  I believe you are.  Just checking...I want to verify that I'm understanding @izzi correctly.

Biceps (not the optional medic bicep), adjust Level 2 requirements to specify the colors we have listed OR something comparable (we are currently missing the "or" statement).  Correct?

[RAIDER[COTG]]

1) Fish hook detail on bicep.  I don't see it.  Any closeups of refs available?

2) Bandolier clarification.

3) Blaster options.  E-11 or E-11B?  E-10 and E-22 correct?

[JAFO[501st]]

The BANDOLIER is a cloth 5.56mm .223 M855 -post-Vietnam US Army 4-Pocket Cloth Bandolier.

It has been sighted worn across chest - left shoulder to right

The white seam line across the M855 has been unpicked to make larger pouches which are then filled got shape and form.

Pics of bicep fish hook detail (as per R1 Shoretroopers)








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[JAFO[501st]]

Oh, and blasters are E-10, E-11, E-22

Don’t forget the grenades! Do we need a description for those?


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[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

We don't have any shoretroopers here so I'm not familiar with how they look but boy that second picture really illustrates the fish hook inset detail.

@Raider  I should be able to edit yours I'm on my tablet right now checking things over then I'll jump on my PC and see if I can do it.

 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Updated with suggestions but need information regarding the Grenades, and whatever we have to flesh out the E10, 11 and 22. 

[JAFO[501st]]

3 hours ago, Blackwatch said:

Updated with suggestions but need information regarding the Grenades, and whatever we have to flesh out the E10, 11 and 22. 

A little more to mull over. Descriptions for blasters and grenades. E-11 and E22 as per Shoretrooper CRL. Not sure if Lvl 2 is warranted for E10 but leave up to the group.

 

E-10 Blaster

·       Based on a real or replica Sterling sub-machine gun, scratch-built, cast, 3D print or a modified commercial toy Stormtrooper blaster.

·       Tactical flashlight (Surefire scout M300 or replica) mounted on right side of barrel.

·       Magazine is extended length. Magazine may be fitted with red lights which illuminate through the grill.

·       Power cylinder is larger with 2 outer cylinders and 2 smaller central cylinder.

·       The righthand side of the barrel features a rectangle box with two antenna. The top antenna is longer than the bottom. A rocker switch is present on top of the box. The box may be fitted with red lights which illuminate through the grill.

·       Scope rail is fitted on a rear blocks whilst the front of the rail is angled to join the top of the barrel. 

·       Either one or two scope rings can be mounted on the scope rail.

·       The barrel features a folding foregrip. 

·       A folding stock is in place.

·       Webbing sling is attached with snap hook buckles.

 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

·       Base is based on S&T Airsoft sterling with closed working parts (no spring)

·       Screws used are M4 x 25mm Allen screw/bolts and sunken Allen screws for power cylinders.

.      Web sling is fitted with snap hook buckles from a 70s era Yugoslavian Backpack.

E-11B Blaster

·       Based on a real or replica Sterling sub-machine gun, scratch-built, cast, 3D print or a modified commercial toy Stormtrooper blaster.

·       Tactical flashlight (Surefire scout M300 or replica) mounted on left side of barrel.

·       Magazine is extended length.

·       Power cylinder is larger with 2 outer cylinders and 1 smaller central cylinder

·       Scope is a M38 1943 version.

·       Scope rail can be fitted with rail blocks and a middle rail support block is optional. 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

·       Base is based on S&T Airsoft sterling with closed working parts (no spring)

·       Screws used are M4 x 25mm Allen screw/bolts and sunken Allen screws for power cylinders.

 

E-22 Blaster
 

·       Based on a real or replica Sterling sub-machine gun, scratch-built, cast, 3D print or a modified commercial toy Stormtrooper blaster. It has a extended stock attached at the rear and a extended front housing with second lower barrel.

·       Tactical flashlight (Surefire scout M300 or replica) mounted on right side of barrel.

·       Magazine is extended length.

·       Power cylinder is larger with 2 outer cylinders and 2 smaller central cylinders

·       Scope is a M38 1943 version

·       Scope rail is fitted onto rail blocks, one inside the rear sight and the other at the front end of the rail.

·       There are 3 swivel studs fitted, one on the rear stock and one each side of the front barrel housing.

·       Sling is 25mm webbing strap that is adjustable using a silver 25mm 3 fixed bar webbing buckle (optional).

·       Sling is fitted with Talon quick release 25mm swivel or replica (optional).

·       Red lights fitted on both sides of the rear housing, Hengstler fitted with a red light for the 3 forward tubes and 2 small red lights fitted into the rear barrel housing under the torch, the lights are permanent and are non flashing or pulsed (optional). 

 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
 

·       Base is based on S&T Airsoft sterling with closed working parts (no spring)

·       Screws used are M4 x 25mm Allen screw/bolts and sunken Allen screws for power cylinders

·       Sling is fitted with Talon quick release 25mm swivel.

 

Grenade

·      The grenade is based on the design of a WW1 stick grenade.

·      The stick features a number of raised ridges.

·      A button pad greeblie is present on the stick.

·      The cylinder at the head of the grenade features 10 ribs.

[areilly]

Few things on the E-10

Light is mounted on the left

The buttstock would be more accurately described as a collapsible or adjustable stock. That would avoid any confusion from the fact that most of the Sterling style folding stock also remains folded forward under the barrel.

The folding foregrip appears to be an extra casing around or replacing the original sterling folding stock’s buttplate, and mounted directly to the barrel, but I couldn’t say for sure. Foregrip is somewhat rectangular in shape and has grooves cut into it. Being able to rotate it vertical might be a L2 item, it’s mostly just Han that is using it in that configuration. I have a hunch the foregrip is wood (or at least brown) but the only clear shots I have are from hot toys fig so that isn’t terribly reliable.

this might be more detail than needed, but the Art of Solo book mentions that the unit on the right side of the blaster is a taser, that was originally intended to slide forward on a rail, so the protrusions would probably be described as electrodes or probes.

Edited October 26, 2018 by areilly
Changed Sten to Sterling

[JAFO[501st]]

Great pick up on the light orientation - I didn’t correct a copy/paste of the E-22 description.

I took the stock description from the DT E-11D which is the same. I’d prefer ‘sliding shoulder stock’ but kept ‘folding’ for consistency.

The foregrip is same principle as the F-11D. Some build them operable whilst others are fixed.

I think operable stock and foregrip are fair for Lvl2.




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[Aircool]

 

The fish hook on the biceps is unnecessary. Nowhere in the movie can you see it.
But the Imperial Cog Patch on the shoulders is more important,
he is a few times to see on screen.
And thats for me not Level 2,rather Level 1.

 

P.S.: And the fishhook is not in the CRL for the Shoretrooper.

[JAFO[501st]]

 

The fish hook on the biceps is unnecessary. Nowhere in the movie can you see it.
But the Imperial Cog Patch on the shoulders is more important,
he is a few times to see on screen.
And thats for me not Level 2,rather Level 1.
 
P.S.: And the fishhook is not in the CRL for the Shoretrooper.

The insignia are only seen on costumes worn by face characters not on standard MTs. Both of these face characters also have costume variations to standard MTs but these will form part of the CRL. Arguably the patches could be seen as specific to these characters.

Just a point of view.

I personally have no concern where the insignia sit within the CRL as they will rarely be seen beneath the bells.


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[RAIDER[COTG]]

Heading to Legoland, so can only brief (sorry)...

1) Blasters.  Check.  I or @Blackwatch will sort that on the original post ASAP along w/ the grenades and bandolier.

2) Fishhook...let's keep it out of Level 1.  Would we like to add it as a Level 2 detail? I feel we should but I'm open-minded. That said, if we do keep it even at L2, we may need a clear pic of that detail for the CRL model (or at the very least a Level 2 help guide here on the forums).

3) Patch Insignia.  @JAFO the patch on standard MTs is unseen because they are always wearing shoulder bells that cover it correct?  The "hero" characters are not our baseline for this particular CRL, so I'm with you on that totally.  My initial assumption though would be that if a couple MTs (Han, Val) have it, the rest in the Imperial Army would as well as a standard uniform piece.  So in that regard, I understand what @Aircool is saying.  Now...if we have evidence in our references that standard MTs absolutely did NOT have the patch, then I would be on board w/ removing it entirely.  My last questions on this (if we end up keeping it)...patch is PVC correct?  Make the material of the patch L2 and leave L1 material open-ended?

Agreed we may be nitpicking these final few minor details but that's what happens at the end I suppose.