MahXPrime[501st] Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 Hi everyone ! It's been a long time a *few* people here are waiting for an update for Del Meeko CRL. Well, time has come. I guess. Not that it was a lot of work, it just needed the time.. Ok so, the following updates are based on every references available, that is : pictures, IG screenshots & 3D model from the game itself. It's been a while I'm working on this costume (orlando celebration basically) so it's a bit of my own "experience" too.. For a proper reading of these updates here is a quick guideline : - Wrong informations will appear in RED- Updated/Added informations will appear in GREEN- Special notes will appear in PURPLE- I may use reference pics to support what I write, these pics will be listed at the end of the post, below the CRL and will match a reference code : Ref #1 / Ref #2 etc.. (I may add more here to clarify some things, YOU CAN ASK ME TO POST MORE IF YOU NEED TO CLARIFY SOMETHING)- Introduction (before parts list) has no updates (yet?) so you can skip itThanks in advance for your review ! Inferno Squad - Del Meeko Model TJ Ramini , Photo by Adam Petersen Visit the Gallery for this Costume for more models and parts views. Description: Inferno Squad - Del MeekoPrefix: TXDetachment: Spec Ops Detachment Context: Star Wars: Battlefront 2 "It's a promise to the rebels. It's called Inferno Squad." Del Meeko was a human male soldier who served in the Galactic Empire. Sometime after the Battle of Yavin, Meeko, along with Senior Lieutenant Iden Versio, Gideon Hask and Seyn Marana, was drafted into Inferno Squad, a Special Forces unit in the Imperial Military, by Admiral Garrick Versio. Meeko continued serving as an elite agent in Inferno Squad, conducting special operations for the Empire throughout the Galactic Civil War against the Rebel Alliance. Black text indicates a feature that is required for approval. Blue text denotes features that are nice to have, but not required. Red text indicates features that take the prop/costume item to an even higher level of accuracy. For 501st membership only the requirements listed in black need to be met. Special Notes: The armor parts shall be gloss and made from one of these types of materials or like materials: Fiberglass, ABS (Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene), or HIPS (High Impact Polystyrene). Blasters are not required for legion membership per our weapons policy. For 501st membership only the requirements in black need to be met. In the page below, items listed in blue are recommended features that will improve the quality of the costume. Items listed in red are intended to further enhance the finished costume. Special Notes The armor parts are gloss black and made from one of these (or similar) types of materials: Fiberglass ABS (Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene) HIPS (High Impact Polystyrene) All striping "flash" is clean and non-weathered Blasters are not required for legion membership per our weapons policy For Iden Versio and Gideon Hask CRL's, please visit the Jolly Roger Squadron Detachment. This Visual Guide has been reviewed by the detachment staff and the LMO team and is certified for use as a minimum approval guideline for GMLs. GMLs are free to approve this costume type. This document is not intended to be a detailed how-to on costume construction; rather a visual guide to be used for 501st costume approval. Details on construction may be found on the respective costume detachment web forum. GMLs uncertain about an aspect of submitted costume shall post questions in the appropriate DL/GML peer review section of the Legion forum. Measurements given in this document are intended to be approximate and generalized; not criteria for approval. Requirements for all 501st costumes are proportional to the wearer in scale, fit and size. Text descriptions are only one part of the guideline. GML's and costumers must consider both text and pictures (CRL and Reference) when reviewing the costume. Required Costume Components The following costume components are present and appear as described below. Helmet - Helmet is specific to Inferno Squad, but modeled after the Rogue One Tie Pilot Helmet. -> modeled after the 3d model specific to Battlefront II game itself. (Accuracy to the source) - Lenses are bubble or flat, are red in color, and must be sufficiently dark enough to obscure the costumer's eyes. Translucent or mirrored red lenses are acceptable. - The front trident area is shorter than a traditional pilot helmet. - There is a rectangular indentation on top of the mowhawk above the trident. - There is one retaining clip greeblie in the left side trident indentation. A Nissan retaining clip is most accurate. - The top of the mow hawk outside of the raised triangle is painted a dark gun metal color down to the inside edge of the helmet opening. - There is a pill box just above the back bottom edge of the mowhawk. The pill box is the same black color as the helmet and does not need to be functional. - Spaces between the teeth are cut out and backed with a dark gray or silver mesh material. - The teeth and vocoder are painted flat black. - Oxygen mask connectors are molded into the helmet just in front of the ear caps above the cheek tubes on both sides of the helmet - There are Imperial disc greeblies without notches on each ear cap. - There are two, 2.75 inch -> This size will appear too large on every helmets, see Ref #1 at the end of the CRL -> in average it's more like 2.15 (55mm) painted or decal logos on the forehead of the helmet. The Inferno Squad logo on the right side and an Imperial cog on the left side. - There is a red painted or red decal area on the ram’s horn on the right side of the helmet. - There is a red painted or red decal area on the right cheek tube - There are molded greeblies painted silver inside the hose ports that cover the openings. (See reference photo) - Helmet may contain lightly done silver weathering but is not required. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): - Lenses are backed with round holed mesh/screen - The pill box is functional - Lenses are bubble.+ Helmet is strictly made from the game's 3d model AND sized/scaled to the wearer -> bobble head helmet is not accurate (scaling in level 2 as not everyone will be able to respect this, too few inferno parts makers using 3d model etc..)+ While sizing the helmet to the wearer, inferno & imperial cog emblems' size will also be scaled so they never appear too large. + Hose connectors are made from machined aluminum (finest render observed, matching mostly every reference pics)+ Too visible weathering is not accurate, must be quite discreet Flight suit - One-piece flight suit is made out of Nomex, rip-stop nylon + canvas (thick material matching references) or similar material. - The front zipper is covered by a 2-inch-wide piece of leather or leather-like material with vertical lines that attaches with Velcro over the zipper. - Approximately 1.5" (38.1mm) tall mandarin collar with a chevron shaped, left-over-right Velcro closure. A 2.5-inch red embroidered or PVC Inferno Squad emblem, on a black background, is present on both shoulders. - The shoulders of the suit are slightly padded. - On the left forearm there is a compad pocket. Size might vary to match specific compad. +compad pocket spot is high enough on the forearm so the glove can't hide the compad - On the left bicep, below the cog emblem, there is a code cylinder pocket with no flap, and vertical stitching dividing it into pen sleeves. - There is a piece of nylon strapping sewn below the pen sleeve openings and is the same length as the top of the pocket. - The bottom front corner of the pocket is cut off at a bevel on the side pointing in view direction, with the broader upside forming the border of the pen sleeves. - The right sleeve has a cargo pocket below the cog emblem. - The pocket has a chevron flap. - There are two large chest pockets and two large front pockets with no zippers or flaps are present below the belt. - There are two leg pockets with chevron flaps, similar in proportion as the right arm sleeve pocket, are present. - There are no leg pockets below the knees. - There are two red stripes that run up the right side of the flight suit. The first begins at the bottom of the right leg and continues up to the right armpit. The second begins at the right wrist and stops at the bottom of the arm pocket. The stripe then continues above the arm pocket, behind the patch emblem to the shoulder seam. - There are two black stripes that run up the left side of the flight suit. The first begins at the bottom of the left leg and continues up to the left armpit. The second begins at the left wrist and stops at the bottom of the compad pocket. The stripe then continues above the compad pocket up to the bottom edge of the pen sleeves then continues above the pen sleeves, behind the patch emblem to the shoulder seam. - There are two black stripes that run up the left side of the flight suit. The first begins at the bottom of the left leg and continues up to the left armpit. The second begins at the left wrist and stops at the bottom of the compad pocket. The stripe then continues above the compad pocket up to the bottom edge of the pen sleeves then continues above the pen sleeves, behind the patch emblem and up over the shoulder ending at the bottom of the collar. - A piece of leather or leather-like material is sewn below the pen sleeve openings and is the same length as the top of the pocket. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):+ Patches are EMBROIDERED + Textured Rip stop / canvas are most accurate as they are hard duty /thick materials with a "solid" structure, "loose" / soft / light material are not accurate see Ref #2 Compad - Rectangular communications pad with patterned painted details matching reference photo. - Compad is worn with the four large, rectangular buttons pointing towards the wearer’s elbow.+ Compad is fully visible, nothing is hidden under the glove Gauntlet Gloves - Black, leather or leather-like material, enclosed fingered, non-textured, (normal leather grain/texture/lines are acceptable) fitted gauntlet style. - No buckles, straps, or decorative stitching. - There is a split on the bottom gauntlet portion that runs from the glove opening to the wrist that is bridged with leather or leather-like material - Gloves are made of leather. -> pretty simple part, nothing to add here Armor - Armor consists of front and back pieces with two shoulder straps anchored by wedge connectors. - Molded rubber, ribbed shoulder straps are acceptable. - Back plate contains detailed "O II" design. - There is a small, circular indentation below the right shoulder strap connector on the back plate. - Armor may contain lightly done silver weathering but is not required. + glossy black in colorOPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):+ Made from the game's 3d model and scaled to the wearer. Armor scaling & strapping must bring together a fitted render + Too visible weathering is not accurate, must be quite discreet Tactical Vest (VERY TECHNICAL PART....MAY ADD MORE OR UPDATE WRITING.. ) - The tactical vest is black Cordura nylon (Flyye Law Enforcement chest rig is most accurate). - There are three M4-M16 magazine pouches. - The ammo slots hold one hanging box from the front belt and one rectangular case is filled in each pouch.-> useless, valid description is just below \/ - The 3 "M4" Pouches contain padded cloth utility rectangular pouches with a thin ABS front cover painted gloss black, construction matching reference - An AR-15 black single pouch is attached to the right side of vest. -> 100% wrong + There is a black custom made pouch on the right side of the vest matching reference, held by an elastic strip (about 2.5cm wide)- The main shoulder straps consist of ribbed leather or leather-like material. - The front buckles are tri-glide buckles. - There is a an approximately 1.5 inch by 1 inch specific buckle greeblie above the tri-glide buckles on each side.+matching reference + shoulder strapping forms an X a little below the back of neck of the wearer. Strips form diagonal lines in the back, loop into a quick release buckle to go up in the back and end in a V shape. Adjusting tri-glides are present. - Really see Ref #3.. + Waist strip is attached to the vest with a quick release buckle. The strip is looped into its quick release buckle. Adjusting tri-glide is centered in the back Ref #4+ After crossing in the back, shoulder strips are attached on the sides of the vest with quick release bucklesOPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):+ Every strapping strips are made of leather - if Flyye chest rig is used, every nylon strapping are replaced + Front shoulder strapping is made of 3 layers of leather strips glued/attached together (width : 3.5cm / 2.5 cm / 1.5 cm), this construction stops a little before the strips are drawing an X in the back and continues into a single 2.5cm strip. + There is a little rectangle of leather glued/attached on the 3 layers construction about 5cm above the buckle greeblie on the front (both sides). Ref #5+ Front tri-glides are attached to the vest with leather loops (about 3.5cm wide), same goes for the quick release buckles also attached to the vest with leather loops (2.5 cm wide) - replacing Flyye nylon loops + Waist strip width is 2.5 cm. + Specific tri-glide buckles holding the vest on the front are made from the game's 3d model, the same goes for the specific buckles greeblies glued/attached to the leather strips just over the tri-glides - Ref #6+ The vest is fitted to the wearer, loose strapping/render is Not accurateCan check Ref #9 also + Shoulder Ammo Pouch - There is an MP-40 ammo pouch attached to the left shoulder and must be filled. - The pouch is black in color and made of canvas, leather or leather-like material. - Pouch stitching is black. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):+ Attached to the left shoulder with an invisible system - magnet system advised. Under Belt - The belt is constructed from a non-textured leather or a leather-like material. - Approximately 2" (50.8 mm) in width, up to 3" (76.2 mm) is acceptable. - There are no loops on the belt. - A single large snap or rivet is visible approximately 1" (25.4 mm) from the buckle. - The belt may be worn with the snap to the right or left of the wearer. - The buckle is constructed from a horizontally brushed metal, or metal looking material. - The buckle size is approximately 2 5/8" (66.7 mm) high and 4 1/8" (104.5 mm) wide with 0.5" (12.7 mm) radius rounded corners. - Buckle is adorned with an Imperial Code Disk at the center. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): - Belt is made of leather. - Snap is worn to the left of the wearer. - Buckle has a slight horizontal curve.+ 2 carved lines -> ROTJ officer belt Over Belt - The belt is made of gloss black plastic material and fastens at the back of the waist with a textile material (webbing). + The over belt consist of "5 boxes belt" attached with a leather stip thiner than the under belt. + "5 boxes belt" is painted glossy black - Sits on top of the under belt with the top third or so of the under belt buckle showing - Five gloss black boxes made of ABS or similar plastic are attached to a 1.5" strip, and both are attached to the base belt -> wrong / unclear+ "5 boxes belt" is a one piece construction in resin / ABS / similar plastic - There are special-shaped boxes on left and right which are horizontal in position as seen in reference photo. - 8 rivets in total are present with 2 rivets mounted vertically on the left and right of the special shaped boxes. - Hanging from the right side of the belt is a hip box made out of hard material. This is connected to the belt by a black leather or leather like straps. - Contains quick release buckles on the front and back. - Two black "scout" pouches are filled and worn at the back of the belt + they leave room for the thermal detonator in the middle. - Belt closes in back behind the thermal detonator. + right side of the wearer, under 5 boxes belt right edge (will post 3d model view under Ref #7) - Belt and components may be lightly weathered silver. - The webbing is made of leather or leather-like material. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):+ 5 boxes belt is made from the game's 3d model and scaled to the wearer. Regular Scout Trooper belt is not accurate, proportions are too big and the design is not accurate. + Too visible weathering on the "5 boxes belt" is not accurate, must be quite discreetCan check Ref #9 also Thermal Detonator - The thermal detonator is attached to the center of the back of the belt. - Thermal detonator is gloss black in color - Silver button details are present on the central box. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):+ Made from the game's 3d model and scaled to the wearer + Biker Scout TD is NOT accurate, the one used here is smaller. + M Holster The holster is made of black leather or leather-like material and be worn on the left side and affixed via two black loops over the belt. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):+ Holster is worn empty Boots Calf high leather or leather-like material. Similar design to German jack boots or motorcycle riding boots. Boots have a flap with adjustment strap that starts at the middle back of the boot and wraps around to the outfacing sides. Adjustment strap has a square, silver adjustment buckle. Heels are made of rubber or similar material and may have tread or no tread. Boots may contain zipper closure but must be concealed with boot material as to not be visible. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):+ Jackboots are not accurate, the boots are custom made according to the specific design seen in references. + Boots are not shiny, they are close to a matte render Optional Accessories Items below are optional costume accessories. These items are not required for approval, but if present appear as described below. If adding in an accessory after initial approval, the item still needs to be submitted to local GML for approval before use. Face Medium length with a part on the side swooped to the right and brown in color. Balaclava A balaclava is a black head sock/hood that is worn under the helmet and is used primarily to hide any view of the wearer's skin and/or facial hair. Code Cylinders ---> No code cylinders are ever present on any Inferno Squad member, according to every references I have, if you find an image where you see code cylinders please provide it and I will update this part 1 to 3 may be worn. Rod Style: machined aluminum, resin or wood rod with flaring disc detail at top. "Hero" cylinders are machined aluminum. "Stunt" cylinders are wood and painted the same color as the helmet markings. Chest Box - The chestbox is required to have the same configurations as seen in the photo.+ Chest box is painted glossy black- The box has five detail pieces: 1 Red, 1 White, 1 black, 2 Blue. - There is a 1/8 inch thick white pinstripe border around the square detail pieces. - There are two round indicator lights above the rocker switches, one white, one red respectively. - There are three rocker switches below the round indicator lights. The rockers are always gray, white, gray. - The gray rockers have red dots or indicator lamps in the bottom outfacing portion. - There is a 1/8 inch thick white pinstripe that runs horizontally across the bottom portion of the box. - There is a male silver snap and a silver round disc with cone knob on the lower portion of the box below the horizontal pinstripe. - There are two "gear" type greeblies affixed to either end of the lower tube portion of the box and are painted silver. - There are two machined aluminum or molded silver greeblies in the hose ports of the box. (See reference photo.) - Chestbox may be light to moderately weathered. - The red and white indicator lights and rocker lamps are functionalOPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):+ Electrically lit (will post reference under Ref #8) + Scaled to the wearer (consistent with armor size) Hoses - Hoses are ribbed rubber gas mask hoses. - There are two plastic(polypropylene, pond hose etc.) or rubber gas mask hoses that run from the helmet ports to the chestbox ports. - Hoses should be proportional to the wearer. E-11 Blaster - Based on a real or replica Sterling sub-machine gun, scratch-built, or a modified commercial toy Stormtrooper blaster.+ Details from other CRL ?OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):+ The accurate E-11 version is from ROTJ DLT-19x - A DLT-19x is an MG-34 with T-tracks on the barrel, a scope mounted on top of mag loader, red ring around the scope, ejection port cover added, and a small disk on left sided on a real or replica MG-34 machine gun. - Scratch-built or high end prop replica as shown in reference photo. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):+ Accurate MG-34 replica base with correct size & proportions (casted / 3d printed from original) + The scope has a specific design and is made from 3d model, the red ring matches reference ID-10 Seeker Droid - Seeker droid is constructed as seen in reference photos. - Seeker droid may be fully extended and held or folded to compact size and stowed on the wearer's back armor. - LED lights in the droid are allowed. -> nothing to add here REFERENCE PICTURES : REF #1 : REF #2 : REF #3 : REF #4 : REF #5 : REF #6 : REF #7 : REF #8 : REF #9 : MORE REF CAN BE PROVIDED IF NEEDED 1 Link to comment
RAIDER[COTG] Posted December 9, 2019 Share Posted December 9, 2019 Moved from staff section for member review @nanotek @Blackwatch @IcyTrooper @MahXPrime 2 Link to comment
Blackwatch[CMD-DCA] Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 diving in to look it over Link to comment
Blackwatch[CMD-DCA] Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Ive got a first pass, and see things I would like to clean up/ edit. The first thing I see that will need to be refined is punctuation, which is often lost in copying from the source CRL. We can fix that here. I propose the folowing verbiage change: Original text : On the left forearm there is a compad pocket. Size might vary to match specific compad. +compad pocket spot is high enough on the forearm so the glove can't hide the - The bottom front corner of the pocket is cut off at a bevel on the side pointing in view direction, with the broader upside forming the border of the pen sleeves.compad Proposed edit: On the left upper forearm there is a compad pocket. Size might vary to match specific compad. The compad is not hidden by the glove. - The bottom front corner of the pocket is cut off at a bevel on the side pointing in view direction, with the broader upside forming the border of the pen sleeves. Ill work on this more tomorrow. 1 Link to comment
RAIDER[COTG] Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Tagging a couple members who expressed interest in a CRL update. @FarEast @TX-20113 1 Link to comment
TX-20113[501st] Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 To: Chest rig fillings. The fillings aren't covered by a thin plastic plate. The is only a plastic stripe close to the top of the filling package. I have reference picture at imgur Chest rig fillings of Del Meeko - Inferno Squad https://imgur.com/gallery/NtN9hFK Link to comment
TX-20113[501st] Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 And also i can not agree with giving Level 2 for embroydered logo patches. I took a screenshot on my 4k tv and its clearly visible that the patches are not embroydered. They are made of vinyl on straight webbed fabric. My pic on Imgur DEL meeko patch game screenshot by myself https://imgur.com/gallery/0FERxpT 1 Link to comment
TX-20113[501st] Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Another point is that of you wanna get really good pictures of Del, you should play the Pillio Mission with Luke and then just play around with Luke's position and the camera position. So you can see many details really close and good resolution. 1 Link to comment
Blackwatch[CMD-DCA] Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Anton thanks for those. Ill incorporate that in my rewrite. I thought embroidered patch sounded wierd since even on a regular Pilot the vinyl patch is higher level. 1 Link to comment
RAIDER[COTG] Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Chest rig pics were already in references thread. I have added the patch. Would we say the patch is more of a Rogue One TIE style material...similar to the Mudtrooper patch? Link to comment
Blackwatch[CMD-DCA] Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Change Log 1 changes in ORANGE Helmet Helmet is specific to Inferno Squad, but modeled after the Rogue One Tie Pilot Helmet. -> modeled after the 3d model specific to Battlefront II game itself. Original Trilogy style helmets are not permitted. The Rogue 1 style helmet is allowed for Basic Approval when requirements outlined below are incorporated. Lenses are bubble or flat, are red in color, and must be sufficiently dark enough to obscure the costumer's eyes. Translucent or mirrored red lenses are acceptable. The front trident area is shorter than a traditional pilot helmet. There is a rectangular indentation on top of the mohawk above the trident. There is one retaining clip greeblie in the left side trident indentation. A Nissan retaining clip is most accurate. The top of the mohawk outside of the raised triangle is painted a dark gun metal color down to the inside edge of the helmet opening. There is a pill box just above the back bottom edge of the mohawk. The pill box is the same black color as the helmet and does not need to be functional. Spaces between the teeth are cut out and backed with a dark gray or silver mesh material. The teeth and vocoder are painted flat black. Oxygen mask connectors are molded into the helmet just in front of the ear caps above the cheek tubes on both sides of the helmet. There are Imperial disc greeblies without notches on each ear cap. There are two painted or decal logos on the forehead of the helmet. The Inferno Squad logo on the right side and an Imperial cog on the left side. Logo size will be proportional to the helmet, between 2.15" to 2.75" (55mm to 69.8mm). Logo and Cog are equivalent in size and shall not be larger than 2.25" (57.1mm) for basic approval. There is a red painted or red decal area on the ram’s horn on the right side of the helmet. There is a red painted or red decal area on the right cheek tube. There are molded greeblies painted silver inside the hose ports that cover the openings. Helmet may contain lightly done silver weathering but is not required. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Helmet is strictly made from the game's 3d model and correctly sized/scaled to the wearer. Hose connectors are made from machined aluminum. Imperial Cog and Inferno Squad logo will be 2.15" (54.6mm) Lenses are backed with round-holed mesh/screen. The pill box is functional. Lenses are bubble. ------------------------------CHANGE LOG ZERO BELOW -------------------------------- subtractions in red additions in blue Helmet Helmet is specific to Inferno Squad, but modeled after the Rogue One Tie Pilot Helmet. -> modeled after the 3d model specific to Battlefront II game itself. Lenses are bubble or flat, are red in color, and must be sufficiently dark enough to obscure the costumer's eyes. Translucent or mirrored red lenses are acceptable. The front trident area is shorter than a traditional pilot helmet. There is a rectangular indentation on top of the mohawk above the trident. There is one retaining clip greeblie in the left side trident indentation. A Nissan retaining clip is most accurate. The top of the mohawk outside of the raised triangle is painted a dark gun metal color down to the inside edge of the helmet opening. There is a pill box just above the back bottom edge of the mohawk. The pill box is the same black color as the helmet and does not need to be functional. Spaces between the teeth are cut out and backed with a dark gray or silver mesh material. The teeth and vocoder are painted flat black. Oxygen mask connectors are molded into the helmet just in front of the ear caps above the cheek tubes on both sides of the helmet. There are Imperial disc greeblies without notches on each ear cap. There are two painted or decal logos on the forehead of the helmet. The Inferno Squad logo on the right side and an Imperial cog on the left side. Logo size will be proportional to the helmet, between 2.15" to 2.75" (55mm to 69.8mm). There is a red painted or red decal area on the ram’s horn on the right side of the helmet. There is a red painted or red decal area on the right cheek tube. There are molded greeblies painted silver inside the hose ports that cover the openings. Helmet may contain lightly done silver weathering but is not required. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Helmet is strictly made from the game's 3d model and sized/scaled to the wearer. Hose connectors are made from machined aluminum. Lenses are backed with round-holed mesh/screen. The pill box is functional. Lenses are bubble. 1 1 Link to comment
RAIDER[COTG] Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 Thanks @Blackwatch To keep our discussion focused, we typically move through the CRL one item at a time. Please focus all convo on the helmet till finished. Then we can move to next piece. In the end, we will do a final review as staff before publishing 3 Link to comment
Blackwatch[CMD-DCA] Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 its been 8 days since @Raider posted. I know we are in the holidays now and people are travelling, so Iwould like to keep this open for another week or so for helmet commentary before we move on to the rest of the build. Please keep comments to the helmet at this time. Link to comment
areilly Posted December 23, 2019 Share Posted December 23, 2019 I've been doing some research on this one since I'm looking at doing one for Celebration. I've been extracting the in game data and there's something I noticed regarding the lenses. The mesh texture mentioned seems to be only seen in a couple of the pre-launch promo images/wallpapers, it's not in-game at all. When these CRLs were drafted those were a primary reference so it makes sense that it was included at the time, but looking at the in-game data, it seems like it should be made a completely optional item, even for level 2. These are the extracted textures, you can see there's no mesh detail at all, and any in-game footage won't have it either. The 3D model in game also doesn't have it either, since it's relatively low poly, all the detail at that level is done with normal mapping in game. 1 Link to comment
RAIDER[COTG] Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 @areilly I understand what you are saying. To play devils advocate, if the references with mesh are EA produced should they be taken into account? Would in-game models be the only reference used? I understand game graphics have advanced...images are far more detailed...but are they “perfect” in the sense that all details are captured and rendered to the slightest detail? Things to ponder...Im not fully comfortable tossing out the EA produced images when (though vastly improved) video games have traditionally not always been spot on with details. Let me know what you think and thanks for chiming in! 1 Link to comment
areilly Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Raider said: @areilly I understand what you are saying. To play devils advocate, if the references with mesh are EA produced should they be taken into account? Would in-game models be the only reference used? I understand game graphics have advanced...images are far more detailed...but are they “perfect” in the sense that all details are captured and rendered to the slightest detail? Things to ponder...Im not fully comfortable tossing out the EA produced images when (though vastly improved) video games have traditionally not always been spot on with details. Let me know what you think and thanks for chiming in! I don’t think we really disagree here, I didn’t mean to suggest those renders be tossed out, just that that particular detail remain an optional one, since it’s not even seen in all of the promo renders. as far as I can tell, it only exists in 2 of the initial promo images, and then is never seen again in renders or cutscenes. It is a cool looking feature, so I can’t argue that it doesn’t look good either ? those out of game renders are definitely a valuable resource, since they represent the highest quality version of the design before they are simplified and the detail is replaced with the texture maps, like these I found posted by one of the designers. The in game models I’ve extracted have lost quite of bit of detail compared to these. Link to comment
Blackwatch[CMD-DCA] Posted December 24, 2019 Share Posted December 24, 2019 to quoate another sci fi genre, "the best a commander can do is to make a decision based on the information she has at the time of her decision" [ Lcdr "Mike" Heinke, A Short Victorious War]. At the time of the original CRL creation the data included the mesh backed lenses, however in current gameplay its not seen. My input would be to remove it from the current CRL. Or make it an OPTION for L2. Text would read something like " round holed mesh backing the lenses are permitted but not required for Level 2 approval" . That said making it the option is a throwback to earlier data that is not currently seen. Link to comment
MahXPrime[501st] Posted December 26, 2019 Author Share Posted December 26, 2019 I think the best compromise is to set these mesh backed lenses into level 2 My opinion is that you can't ignore official HQ pictures, they are the closest and the most advanced idea of what they were thinking If it's not in the game I think it's just because dev teams mainly have to create a game that is not too ressource demanding.. and that kind of thing is only a detail that you would see by zooming several times onto the lenses so the decision is quicly made ! Link to comment
RAIDER[COTG] Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 4 hours ago, MahXPrime said: I think the best compromise is to set these mesh backed lenses into level 2 My opinion is that you can't ignore official HQ pictures, they are the closest and the most advanced idea of what they were thinking If it's not in the game I think it's just because dev teams mainly have to create a game that is not too ressource demanding.. and that kind of thing is only a detail that you would see by zooming several times onto the lenses so the decision is quicly made ! I think that's where I'm at with it. Keep it at Level 2 as is. Now…I do have some questions regarding the helmet proposals. Keep in mind, I am cross-referencing with the JRS Iden CRL to see where we would potentially deviate from that CRL (I'd like that to be as minimal as possible…but of course changing what is necessary to change based on the reference images): 1) Logo size…we have a range now listed at Level 1 (JRS has no size listed at all for Level 1). Would we like the size to be very specific for Level 2 at the smaller 2.15"? 2) When you state "modeled after the 3D model specific to Battlefront II"…my question here…is that any different than a Rogue One pilot helmet? I always thought they were one and the same. If they are the same, would having a real life screen comparison be more useful to builders? 3) Removed the silver weathering at Level 2. Is that related to the machined hose connectors or not at all? 4) Regarding the helmet…getting scale for Level 2 could prove difficult for some as not everyone (most people) do not have access to 3D printing and most helmet makers won't provide custom scaled 3D printed helmets. Need some more thought on this. Link to comment
MahXPrime[501st] Posted December 27, 2019 Author Share Posted December 27, 2019 11 hours ago, Raider said: I think that's where I'm at with it. Keep it at Level 2 as is. Now…I do have some questions regarding the helmet proposals. Keep in mind, I am cross-referencing with the JRS Iden CRL to see where we would potentially deviate from that CRL (I'd like that to be as minimal as possible…but of course changing what is necessary to change based on the reference images): 1) Logo size…we have a range now listed at Level 1 (JRS has no size listed at all for Level 1). Would we like the size to be very specific for Level 2 at the smaller 2.15"? 2) When you state "modeled after the 3D model specific to Battlefront II"…my question here…is that any different than a Rogue One pilot helmet? I always thought they were one and the same. If they are the same, would having a real life screen comparison be more useful to builders? 3) Removed the silver weathering at Level 2. Is that related to the machined hose connectors or not at all? 4) Regarding the helmet…getting scale for Level 2 could prove difficult for some as not everyone (most people) do not have access to 3D printing and most helmet makers won't provide custom scaled 3D printed helmets. Need some more thought on this. 1) Level 2 is here to be specific so yea, keep a range into level 1 and be more specific on level 2, as seen in my screen, a smaller size is proven to be the most accurate, we can argue on what precise size it is but it's around these 2.15" 2) Here is a pic at 1st : It's all about perfectionism and TINY details, it looks almost the same but it's a little different here and there, even if it's almost the same it will be always better to state "modeled after the 3d model in the game" -> it's only accuracy taken to the source, so there is no risk at all to fail to be accurate 3) Well acutally silver weathering is not removed, I forgot to mention it, if you do some weathering it still be silver, it just has to be very very discreet as we almost always see (in every ref or ig) clean / smooth / shiny armors with no impacts at all.. the weathering you would do on a clone trooper would never be accurate for inferno for example 4) That's why it's in level 2 and not in level 1, if there were a level 3 it WOULD be in level 3 actually.. My opinion concerning levels is that they are here for advanced accuracy, for people who can and/or want to push it very far, it's their role no more no less.. so we shall respect that in a way : if you want to do advanced accuracy on this one, it's logical to me it's a quite good upgrade to get your whole uniform fitted and scaled to yourself, with an helmet that is NOT a bobble head I mean, it doesn't have to be perfectly "tailored" (it 's the best option, to scale 3d files according to you, this is what could be a level 3), just, I think it's fair to ask a quite fitted result in level 2 Link to comment
RAIDER[COTG] Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 44 minutes ago, MahXPrime said: 1) Level 2 is here to be specific so yea, keep a range into level 1 and be more specific on level 2, as seen in my screen, a smaller size is proven to be the most accurate, we can argue on what precise size it is but it's around these 2.15" 2) Here is a pic at 1st : It's all about perfectionism and TINY details, it looks almost the same but it's a little different here and there, even if it's almost the same it will be always better to state "modeled after the 3d model in the game" -> it's only accuracy taken to the source, so there is no risk at all to fail to be accurate 3) Well acutally silver weathering is not removed, I forgot to mention it, if you do some weathering it still be silver, it just has to be very very discreet as we almost always see (in every ref or ig) clean / smooth / shiny armors with no impacts at all.. the weathering you would do on a clone trooper would never be accurate for inferno for example 4) That's why it's in level 2 and not in level 1, if there were a level 3 it WOULD be in level 3 actually.. My opinion concerning levels is that they are here for advanced accuracy, for people who can and/or want to push it very far, it's their role no more no less.. so we shall respect that in a way : if you want to do advanced accuracy on this one, it's logical to me it's a quite good upgrade to get your whole uniform fitted and scaled to yourself, with an helmet that is NOT a bobble head I mean, it doesn't have to be perfectly "tailored" (it 's the best option, to scale 3d files according to you, this is what could be a level 3), just, I think it's fair to ask a quite fitted result in level 2 Ok good. Thanks! So following up with my thoughts then... @Blackwatch can make the adjusts... 1) Lets keep the the range for Level 1 decals and be specific 2.15” with the added “scaled” verbiage for Level 2. 2) And this also relates to point 4...Ok so the helmets are not identical. Thanks for that reference. My suggestion...add some verbiage that states the Battlefront helmet is most accurate but allow the R1 helmet as an option. We could narrow it down just for Level 2 but I hesitate with that because is anyone actually making a correct BF2 style? I would hate to limit it so that no one would be able to achieve Level 2. That said I would also hate to remove the knowledge that it is actually a different helmet from the CRL. Blackwatch can draft up some solution. 3) So we just need to add that line about weathering back. Extra point...can we add a line emphasizing that OT helmets are not acceptable? It is still a problem we see when GMLs ask for feedback. 2 Link to comment
MahXPrime[501st] Posted December 27, 2019 Author Share Posted December 27, 2019 You're welcome 1) Yes all good 2) R1 could be allowed in level 1 yea, it adds some flexibility.. as not every prop makers can build from 3d models Yes ! Someone is making them tailored from 3d models, I only know one prop maker doing that in China (ordered my upgrade from him, french garrison mate also ordered and receive and it looks really good) but he's probably not alone, I've seen a couple of ppl making helmets from 3d files as well So yea, no need to remove the knowledge that it's a different helmet, we can keep the "accurate statement" -> YES WE SHOULD ! OT helmets are NOT acceptable at all, it's what I had as 1st helmet and it's Not good in any way I understand some prop makers won't have the money to make a specific build but the 501st need to keep good quality and accuracy standard (imo) 1 Link to comment
areilly Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 3 hours ago, Raider said: 1) Lets keep the the range for Level 1 decals and be specific 2.15” with the added “scaled” verbiage for Level 2. Regarding the decal size, I'm getting about 57mm/2.25" for both the helmet and shoulder emblems from the in-game assets. I got the helmet decal measurement from scaling the texture to the model, but there is likely a few percentage points of error there, since the wrapped texture is a bit distorted. It should be fairly close, and the model measurements are pretty reliable since the in-game models do include measurements. They are scaled to a body that is about 1.8m/6' in height. Like you mentioned, the scaling/proportion is ultimately what's important, and 2.15 vs 2.25 is hardly noticeable. helmet texture top, shoulder bottom: 2 Link to comment
RAIDER[COTG] Posted December 27, 2019 Share Posted December 27, 2019 Awesome @areilly!!! Thanks! Are you ok with the range for Level 1...Level 2 2.15” or 2.25” @MahXPrime? We can still keep the added wording about scaling for some wiggle room 2 Link to comment
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