Finalizing CRL Proposal - Lieutenant Janek Sunber (SW:E)

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

This will be the main listing and we'll tackle each part piece by piece (green is done, yellow is WIP, and red is not finalized):

• Hat, Olive
• Facial Appearance / Hair Style
• Green Imperial Flight Suit
• Imperial Army Patch
• Imperial Rank Bar
• Olive Gloves
• Web Harness
• Comlink
• Belt
• Belt Pouches
• Boots
• Macrobinoculars (Optional)
• Holster (Optional)
• SE-14R Blaster Pistol (Optional)

NOTE: Linked below is the original thread where the discussions were being had on the costume started on 02/26/2018. The new discussions will take place in this thread and draw reference from that thread to clean it up: 

------------FINALIZED TEXT GOES BELOW THIS LINE------------

Description: Lieutenant Janek Sunber
Prefix: TX
Detachment: Spec Ops Detachment
Context: Star Wars: Empire by Dark Horse Comics / Expanded Universe / Legends

Janek Sunber is a lieutenant in the Imperial Army. After spending his youth in Tatooine, Lt. Sunber joined the Academy of Carida in 1 BBY where he was recognized for his performance and transferred to officer training. Sunber is a dedicated and hardworking officer, and was most recognized for his actions at the Battles of Maribun.

Special Notes:

• Soft parts may be slightly weathered with scuffs/dirt.
• Blasters are not required for legion membership per our weapons policy.

--------------------------------------------

Hat, Olive

• Fabric is a medium weight suiting material of olive green.
• Base of the hat is conical, with a crown about 4" (107mm) tall.
• Front and rear “flaps” overlap on the sides and are about 4" (107mm) high.
• Front bill extends 3" (76mm) down, decorated with (5) (6) or (7) concentric stitches.
• An Imperial Code Disk is positioned in the center of the front vertical “flap”.

Facial Appearance / Hair Style

• Hair is close-cropped.
• Basic approval does not require matching facial hair.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Hair color is black.
• Costumer is clean shaven.

Green Imperial Flight Suit

• One-piece olive green coverall / jumpsuit / flight suit with a front invisible zipper and mandarin collar with one of the following:
  • The mandarin collar has no visible method of how it closes, or
  • A single snap near the closing point and olive green in color.
• Each shoulder has a patch as noted below.
• Below the patch on each arm there is a small pocket with the rectangular flap closure that is roughly 1.25" (32mm) tall and ends just above the elbow.
• 2 large chest pockets.
  • The 2 chest pockets feature flap closures made of matching fabric, as wide as the pocket, and roughly 1.25" (32mm) tall. 
• 2 large cargo pockets sit on the outside of each leg from around mid-thigh and not extending past the bottom of the knee, with a rectangular flap covering the top.
• There are no leg pockets below the knees.
• Pockets may feature gussets.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Mandarin collar is closed by a chevron shaped strap across the neck.
• The mandarin collar has no visible method of how it closes.

Imperial Army Patch

• A shield shaped patch.
• The patch has an Imperial cog symbol approximately 2.75" to 3" (70-76mm) in diameter.
• The background of the patch has a more narrow shield shaped design on top of a box colored a darker shade of green.

Imperial Rank Bar

• Rank consists of colored plastic tiles mounted on a metallic finish square.
• Rank bar corners are hard angled or slightly rounded.
• The rank of Lieutenant (2 red tiles on top of 2 blue tiles) is the only acceptable rank.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Rank bar corners are slightly rounded, not hard angled.
• Rank tiles are affixed to a singular rank bar with no line in between the 2 red tiles on top and 2 blue tiles on the bottom. Two rank bars are not permitted.

Olive Gloves

• Olive drab, wrist length gloves constructed of leather, Kevlar or similar material.
• Enclosed fingers.
• No buckles, etc.
• May have square padding on the back of the hand.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Square padding is present on back of hand.

Web Harness

• Olive green colored, double strap "H" harness which travels from the lower back, and up over the shoulders.
• The harness system attaches to the belt.
• Harness is made of 2" (50mm) olive green nylon webbing.
• Visible snap-hook style fasteners that attach to belt eyelets are acceptable.
• Tri-glides may be present on front or back of suspenders.
• Back of suspenders may be permanently fastened to belt, but not required.
• Left suspender has a comlink clip/holster with a comlink contained within. The comlink clip/holster is positioned parallel to the rank bar and is form fitting to the comlink.
  • The comlink must meet the details contained within this CRL in its own section.
• Right suspender has a rectangular pouch attached with the bottom of the pouch positioned with the right chest pouch flap closure. The pouch is olive green in color and should be made of nylon or similar material, with a top flap, and strap from top to bottom securing it shut.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Harness fasteners are not seen, and may be hidden behind the belt.
• Harness is fitted to the wearer and no tri-glides are present.

Comlink

• Styled after the comlink as seen in the Star Wars: Empire (Dark Horse Comics). An interpretation of the comlink is allowed, but comic accuracy is encouraged.
• The comlink is painted a matching olive green color and has the following details:
  • A raised band around its upper section featuring equally-spaced raised vertical bars with recessed areas between each vertical bar.
  • Underneath the upper section there is a recessed groove before the main body of the comlink.
  • The bottom of the comlink is beveled to a flat bottom.

Belt

• Belt is a nylon military style quick release web belt or a cotton double prong buckle web belt.
• Belt is olive green in color.
• Belt buckles may be the following colors:
  • Quick release style may be black or olive green.
  • Double prong style may be olive green or silver.
• Belt may feature eyelets along both sides of its length, but these are not required for approval.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Belt is a nylon or cotton double prong buckle web belt and not the quick release style.
• Double prong buckle may be olive green or silver.

Belt Pouches

• Belt pouches are olive green in color and should be made of nylon or similar material.
• 2 rectangular MOLLE style pouches with a top flap, and strap from top to bottom securing it shut, sit to the right of the belt buckle where the harness meets the belt.
• A large pouch sits on the right of the above pouches. The pouch may be a utility pouch, gas mask pouch, SAW pouch, or other MOLLE style pouch of similar size.
• A tactical triple AK magazine PALS belt or MOLLE style pouch should be on the rear of the belt.
• A macrobinoculars pouch sits on the left of the belt buckle where the harness meets the belt.
• 2 rectangular MOLLE style pouches with a top flap, and strap from top to bottom securing it shut, sit to the left of the macrobinoculars pouch.

OPTIONAL Level Two certification (if applicable):

• The large pouch will make use of a visible double snap closure or appear to have such.
• Macrobinoculars are present.

Boots

• Below the calf black or green leather or leather-like material.
• Free of laces, decorative stitching, buckles on the instep or any other embellishments.
• Zippers on the inside of the boot are acceptable, so long as they are concealed.
• If the zipper is not covered by vinyl/leather, it is painted black.

OPTIONAL Level Two certification (if applicable):

• Olive green 8” to 9” (20-23cm) high boots.
• Pants legs shall be tucked into boots and fluffed to give appearance of original source art.
• Weathering of the boots is encouraged.

Macrobinoculars (Optional)

• Scratch built or high end prop replica that is similar to the reference images.
• Must be painted olive green in color.

OPTIONAL Level Two certification (if applicable):

• The view lenses are tinted red on the end that is held up to the eyes.

Holster (Optional)

• Retention style open back holster made to fit the SE-14R Blaster Pistol. A strap goes across the top to hold the blaster in place.
• Holster is made of Nylon, leather or similar material.
• Black or olive green in color.
• Holster is worn on the right side so it hangs below all belt pouches.

OPTIONAL Level Two certification (if applicable):

• Holster is olive green in color.

SE-14R Blaster Pistol (Optional)

• High-End Replica.
• As seen in various promotional material & merchandise.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

We'll go item by item and add the finalized text to the first post as we get it completed!

The first order of business is to knock out the Olive, Hat which was pulled from the IAT CRL:

Hat, Olive

• Fabric is a medium weight suiting material of olive green.
• Base of the hat is conical, with a crown about 4" (107mm) tall.
• Front and rear “flaps” overlap on the sides and are about 4" (107mm) high.
• Front bill extends 3" (76mm) down, decorated with (5) (6) or (7) concentric stitches.
• An Imperial Code Disk is positioned in the center of the front vertical “flap”.

 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

20 minutes ago, IcyTrooper said:

We'll go item by item and add the finalized text to the first post as we get it completed!

The first order of business is to knock out the Olive, Hat which was pulled from the IAT CRL:

Hat, Olive

• Fabric is a medium weight suiting material of olive green.
• Base of the hat is conical, with a crown about 4" (101.6mm) tall.
• Front and rear “flaps” overlap on the sides and are about 4" (101.6mm) high.
• Front bill extends 3" (76mm) down, decorated with (5) (6) or (7) concentric stitches.
• An Imperial Code Disk may be positioned in the center of the front vertical “flap,” but is not required.

 

Once more dear friends, into the breech---

 

Take a look at the reference photos , and note that all officers are wearing their Imperial hats with code disks in place. Troopers are optional, however officers are seen worn. 

I propose the following changes to keep the current style we are using. 

 

This will be CRL version V.1 

red strikethrough - removed text

green- new proposed text 

Hat, Olive

• Fabric is a medium weight suiting material of olive green.
• Base of the hat is conical, with a crown about 4" (101.6mm) (107mm) tall.
• Front and rear “flaps” overlap on the sides and are about 4" (101.6mm)(107mm) high.
• Front bill extends 3" (76mm) down, decorated with (5) (6) or (7) concentric stitches.
• An Imperial Code Disk is may be positioned in the center of the front vertical “flap”. but is not required.

 

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

9 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

Once more dear friends, into the breech---

 

Take a look at the reference photos , and note that all officers are wearing their Imperial hats with code disks in place. Troopers are optional, however officers are seen worn. 

I propose the following changes to keep the current style we are using. 

 

This will be CRL version V.1 

red strikethrough - removed text

green- new proposed text 

Hat, Olive

• Fabric is a medium weight suiting material of olive green.
• Base of the hat is conical, with a crown about 4" (101.6mm) (107mm) tall.
• Front and rear “flaps” overlap on the sides and are about 4" (101.6mm)(107mm) high.
• Front bill extends 3" (76mm) down, decorated with (5) (6) or (7) concentric stitches.
• An Imperial Code Disk is may be positioned in the center of the front vertical “flap”. but is not required.

 

I have updated my post as well to reflect your input and notated that in the edit note as well.

I concur with the code disk for the Lt. as it is visible in his specific reference pictures as well: 

 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Very good.  Since the hat is quite common to other Officers, can we clear and lock and move on to the next component, the green flight suit? 

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Agreed @Blackwatch, I'm sure we may have some discussion on the flight suit. I copied the IAT flight suit over and removed the part about the rank bar as the Lt. has one, and changed the snap text over to possible stitching from Velcro?:

Green Imperial Flight Suit

• One-piece olive green coverall / jumpsuit / flight suit with a front invisible zipper and mandarin collar.
  • The mandarin collar has no visible method of how it closes.
• Each shoulder has a patch as noted below.
• Below the patch on each arm there is a small pocket with the rectangular flap closure that is roughly 1.25" (32mm) tall and ends just above the elbow.
• 2 large chest pockets.
  • The 2 chest pockets feature flap closures made of matching fabric, as wide as the pocket, and roughly 1.25" (32mm) tall. 
• 2 large cargo pockets sit on the outside of each leg from around mid-thigh and not extending past the bottom of the knee, with a rectangular flap covering the top.
• There are no leg pockets below the knees.
• Pockets may feature gussets.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Mandarin collar is closed by a chevron shaped strap across the neck.
• Collar is closed by one of the following:
  • A rectangular piece of Velcro with stitching is visible from the exterior, or
  • A single snap near the chevron point and olive green in color.

I know that there was some discussion based on the comic panels that @Hoda brought up as well. I see the stitching in this panel but that is about it for the Lt.:

The stitching doesn't appear in any of the other panels:

 

Perhaps we don't have any snap on this one or make the snap acceptable for L1 and then no snap for L2 and can close with any method necessary as long as we don't see stitch lines?

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

The uniforms are made by some race somewhere in a factory, punched out by the billions, and would be the same. Which I dont understand since Sunbers uniform is the same as the other Officers, with the green *(and black) coveralls. 

Im iffy on it.  That said, when you get coveralls you have to make your own neck closure, so its either velcro or snap you are adding, since the snap is optional. 

I would like to add a line for Sunber, since its clearly visible in all the images from front and 3/4 views:

Green Imperial Flight Suit

• One-piece olive green coverall / jumpsuit / flight suit with a front invisible zipper and mandarin collar.
• Each shoulder has a patch as noted below.
• 2 large chest pockets.
• 2 large cargo pockets sit on the outside of each leg from around mid-thigh and not extending past the bottom of the knee, with a rectangular flap covering the top.
• There are no leg pockets below the knees.
• Pockets may feature gussets.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Mandarin collar is closed by a chevron shaped strap across the neck.
• Collar is closed by a rectangular piece of Velcro. Stitching is visible from the exterior.
• 2 chest pockets feature flap closures made of matching fabric, as wide as the pocket, and roughly 1.25" (32mm) tall. 

 

 

[Hoda[CMD-DCA]]

Here's another panel where you see some sort of closure on Sunber's collar - 

My two cents - I agree w/ @Blackwatchthat these suits are likely to be made at a factory somewhere, so maybe the collar shouldn't change much. Is that actually stitching, or a shadow of the snap like on other trooper suits? With drawn figures, I am guessing some concessions will have to be made. 

What about for level one, we don't ask for any snaps or stitching, but for level 2, include language for stitching/snaps?

-------

... I know what I said about the suit being the same as other troopers, but for Sunber, we also need to include the line ... (hahaha)

Below the patch on each arm there is a small pocket with the rectangular flap closure that ends just above the elbow.

I am guessing it should be a level one requirement as it's pretty obvious that he has this throughout.

Oy ... I need to convert the chamfered pocket flaps to rectangular ones.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

I'd be in support of adding no snaps/stitching for L1 and then for L2 to have stitching or snap; however, we should make it either stitching or snap to make it consistent. I'd vote for a snap since the IAT has that and that could be the interpretation for it. What do you guys think?

I'm also in agreement for adding the rectangular flap closure on the arm pocket. It is visible on many of the comic panels:

    

  

 

I know that @Blackwatch suggested that the chest stuff is L2, would we want to make the arm pockets L2 as well?

 

[Hoda[CMD-DCA]]

I'd love @Blackwatch's thoughts on this one, but I was thinking for Sunber, the pockets should be a L1 requirement. Otherwise we're pretty much looking at an IAT without the uniqueness of the face character, no?

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

1 hour ago, Hoda said:

I'd love @Blackwatch's thoughts on this one, but I was thinking for Sunber, the pockets should be a L1 requirement. Otherwise we're pretty much looking at an IAT without the uniqueness of the face character, no?

That is a good point as well. May be worth moving the unique stuff to L1 so that way it doesn't appear that this is just a generic IA officer jumpsuit, etc.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

2 hours ago, Hoda said:

I'd love @Blackwatch's thoughts on this one, but I was thinking for Sunber, the pockets should be a L1 requirement. Otherwise we're pretty much looking at an IAT without the uniqueness of the face character, no?

I would lean to that approach as well…when we did the Mudtrooper we made sure as an example to make the distinguishing details of the chest plate a Level 1 requirement to the letter so as to differentiate the piece from other similar chest plates like General Veers'.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Yep that makes sense to me. I can add the updated text and move specific details to L1.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

I updated my post with the light orange text for the jumpsuit text to add stuff in L1 about the pockets on chest, on each arm under the patch and about no visible method of attachment for the mandarin collar. I also added L2 text allowing for either that Velcro and exterior stitching or the snap near the chevron point on the collar that is olive green.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Ok everyone, just got my computer to unlock. its old (not my laptop at work, my old computer at home), and now I can post.  

I read the text for the suit, and have read the discussion,and Im in agreement that these shoud be L1 items.  I was so dialed in to the neck closure when I last looked at this, that I didnt look at the sleeves but in the back of my mind I know its there.   This needs to be there for L1, as this will be a slightly different suit. 

We are not requiring pocket flaps for the Army Trooper, so requiring both arm pockets with flaps should be an L1 item. 

On the chevron closure on the strap, my way of thinking is this:

Swap the now-L2 text for the L1 text.  L1 has snaps, or a topstitched line holding velcro.  This is easy mode. 

But for L2, its not supposed to be easy mode. You need to plan ahead, the same way I make X wing coveralls with invisible closures, so I sew the velcro on first before I make the neck closure.  To me, this is the default closue.  Invisible.  Bra hook, internally stitched velcro, magnet hidden inside the fabric, glued velcro dot, whichever the member prefers to go with. 

[Hoda[CMD-DCA]]

44 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

Ok everyone, just got my computer to unlock. its old (not my laptop at work, my old computer at home), and now I can post.  

I read the text for the suit, and have read the discussion,and Im in agreement that these shoud be L1 items.  I was so dialed in to the neck closure when I last looked at this, that I didnt look at the sleeves but in the back of my mind I know its there.   This needs to be there for L1, as this will be a slightly different suit. 

We are not requiring pocket flaps for the Army Trooper, so requiring both arm pockets with flaps should be an L1 item. 

On the chevron closure on the strap, my way of thinking is this:

Swap the now-L2 text for the L1 text.  L1 has snaps, or a topstitched line holding velcro.  This is easy mode. 

But for L2, its not supposed to be easy mode. You need to plan ahead, the same way I make X wing coveralls with invisible closures, so I sew the velcro on first before I make the neck closure.  To me, this is the default closue.  Invisible.  Bra hook, internally stitched velcro, magnet hidden inside the fabric, glued velcro dot, whichever the member prefers to go with. 

Question - so for a trooper building with L2 in mind, does that mean the trooper will then need to make another collar for when they go for L2?

If a trooper built to L2 right off the bat and created one of these collars with invisible closures, the way it's written, will we find ourselves in a situation where the GMLs might not want to approve? 

What if rephrase the language to something like ...

Level 1 - 
One-piece olive green coverall / jumpsuit / flight suit with a front invisible zipper.
Mandarin collar is closed by a chevron shaped strap across the neck.
Collar could have one of the following: 
- A rectangular piece of Velcro with stitching is visible from the exterior, or
- A single snap near the chevron point and olive green in color.

Level 2 - 
The mandarin collar has no visible method of how it closes.

 

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Yeah we'd probably have to make both acceptable for L1 and then something that requires more forethought for L2.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Here is the final text that will be updated in the master post above:

Green Imperial Flight Suit

• One-piece olive green coverall / jumpsuit / flight suit with a front invisible zipper and mandarin collar with one of the following:
  • The mandarin collar has no visible method of how it closes, or
  • A single snap near the closing point and olive green in color.
• Each shoulder has a patch as noted below.
• Below the patch on each arm there is a small pocket with the rectangular flap closure that is roughly 1.25" (32mm) tall and ends just above the elbow.
• 2 large chest pockets.
  • The 2 chest pockets feature flap closures made of matching fabric, as wide as the pocket, and roughly 1.25" (32mm) tall. 
• 2 large cargo pockets sit on the outside of each leg from around mid-thigh and not extending past the bottom of the knee, with a rectangular flap covering the top.
• There are no leg pockets below the knees.
• Pockets may feature gussets.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Mandarin collar is closed by a chevron shaped strap across the neck.
• The mandarin collar has no visible method of how it closes.

------------------------------

With that being said we can bypass the Imperial Army Patch since it is the standard patch from the IAT and we'll use that text for this. That'll move us to the rank bar:

Imperial Rank Bar

• Rank consists of colored plastic tiles mounted on a metallic finish square.
• Rank bar corners are hard angled or slightly rounded.
• The rank of Lieutenant (2 red tiles on top of 2 blue tiles) is the only acceptable rank.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Rank bar corners are slightly rounded, not hard angled.
• Rank tiles are are affixed to a singular rank bar with no line in between the 2 red tiles on top and 2 blue tiles on the bottom. Two rank bars are not permitted.

I took a look at the comic panels and in most of them the corners are slightly rounded, so making that L2 was a good one!

[Hoda[CMD-DCA]]

Love it!

If we want to be a bit more nit-picky about level 2 requirements for the rank bar ... my recommendation would be to insert a line to the effect of this - 

Buttons are affixed to a single bar with no line in between the 2 red tiles and the 2 blue tiles.

Most makers of these ESB lieutenant rank bars make them by affixing two rank bars together, leading to this line in the middle. None of the reference images for Sunber that I have come across has the line in the middle.  (I mean heck, my own rank bar has the line in the middle).

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Agree with that text. I didn't even think to check the CRLs at IOC for this! I'd agree to add that to the second bullet for L2:

• Rank tiles are are affixed to a singular rank bar with no line in between the 2 red tiles on top and 2 blue tiles on the bottom. Two rank bars are not permitted.

How does that sound? It takes the guess work out of it with the last sentence as well.

[Hoda[CMD-DCA]]

2 minutes ago, IcyTrooper said:

Agree with that text. I didn't even think to check the CRLs at IOC for this! I'd agree to add that to the second bullet for L2:

• Rank tiles are are affixed to a singular rank bar with no line in between the 2 red tiles on top and 2 blue tiles on the bottom. Two rank bars are not permitted.

How does that sound? It takes the guess work out of it with the last sentence as well.

Clear enough to me, I think!

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

I have updated the main post above with the finalized text for the Imperial Rank Bar. Now we can move onto the Olive Gloves!

I have been looking at the panels and I believe that these gloves are going to be like the L1 requirements for the IAT and IAS, but the L2 should match that of the IAS with the square pad on the back. We can see the square part on many of the panels of his gloves. As we have done with the flight suit there are distinct differences that would set this apart from the IAT gloves. The square padding part should be L2.

Olive Gloves

• Olive drab, wrist length gloves constructed of leather, Kevlar or similar material.
• Enclosed fingers.
• No buckles, straps, etc.
• May have square padding on the back of the hand.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Square padding is present on back of hand.

[Hoda[CMD-DCA]]

Concurred. I wish there were ready made olive gloves out there similar to the IAS gloves ... painting leather is such a pain and doesn't look that great up-close, sigh.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

3 minutes ago, Hoda said:

Concurred. I wish there were ready made olive gloves out there similar to the IAS gloves ... painting leather is such a pain and doesn't look that great up-close, sigh.

At least it'll look like some weathering  

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

I updated the glove text to the finalized version since it seemed simple enough. I know this Web Harness will be a good discussion:

Web Harness

• Olive green colored, double strap "H" harness which travels from the lower back, and up over the shoulders.
• The harness system attaches to the belt.
• Harness is made of 2" (50mm) olive green nylon webbing.
• Visible snap-hook style fasteners that attach to belt eyelets are acceptable.
• Tri-glides may be present on front or back of suspenders.
• Back of suspenders may be permanently fastened to belt, but not required.
• Left suspender has a comlink clip/holster that is positioned parallel to the rank bar.
• Right suspender has a vanity pouch attached with the bottom of the pouch positioned with the right chest pouch flap closure.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Harness fasteners are not seen, and may be hidden behind the belt.
• Harness is fitted to the wearer and no tri-glides are present.
• Comlink is present.

I think we need to determine if the Comlink should be required for L1 or not. Whether it is L1 or L2 with the requirement that'll determine where we list the Comlink section and the description and image for the Comlink.