Imperial Army Trooper - Andor - CRL Discussion

[nanotek[CMD-DWM]]

21 minutes ago, RAIDER said:

@TeaJay @fb501 (and others) would the  cast goggles qualify as a Level 2 requirement in your opinion OR a totally unnecessary add?

I see the Level 1 requirement holds that the the strap would sit below the TU (like the Muddy) not on top.  Remove or alter this line?

From the visual resources I would suggest that the telemetry unit be placed in line with/on the strap and concur that fixed goggles be a L2 optional. It would be great if we could get a nice clean shot of the telemetry unit

[TeaJay[TX]]

2 hours ago, nanotek said:

From the visual resources I would suggest that the telemetry unit be placed in line with/on the strap and concur that fixed goggles be a L2 optional. It would be great if we could get a nice clean shot of the telemetry unit

Agreed with this statement.

In my opinion, think the telemetry unit needs to be in line with/on the strap, there are multiple troopers with this particular greeblie located on the goggle strap. I'm wondering if @fb501 remembers from his helmet? Fixing the goggles to the helmet permanently may possibly go hand and hand with how this greeblie attaches to the strap. Based on its placement, I just don't see much flexibility to bring the goggles down onto the wearer's eyes/face and no troopers are seen with the goggles down. I think attaching the telemetry unit to the strapping is a must, but that along with free floating strapping (not attaching/gluing the strap to the helmet) may look odd if someone puts the goggles on their face (not sure how I feel about it people wearing the goggles since it isn't done in the episode but that is indeed what goggles are for  ) because then the telemetry greeblie will likely sit lower than the seam line of where the helmet dome meets the flared skirt of the helmet.

If one can pull off the look as seen on-screen without gluing down the strap and goggles to the helmet, that should be satisfactory for level 1 with the idea of gluing it all down being a L2 requirement. At a minimum the telemetry unit needs attached to the strapping (IMO)... 

In addition to having the telemetry unit attached to the strapping, I have some concerns about not attaching the whole strap to the helmet leading to mid-trooping costume appearance "slippage" unless your goggle straps are firm and tight to the helmet... if that makes any sense... I think you know what I mean   

 

The telemetry unit is on the goggle strap of even the soldier that has to take a leak, I think he may be the same soldier in the up close shot below...  

 

The only scene that you can see the telemetry unit up close in the light is at runtime 9:59 - 10:02 and the camera is panning left to right so there is a bit of a motion blur for those few seconds. Here's a another snag of it (https://imgur.com/a/3X0tSBI)

 

 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Another question then…if the goggles are affixed to the bucket/TU should the goggles be included in the helmet entry or have its own entry like the Mudtrooper?

[nanotek[CMD-DWM]]

19 minutes ago, RAIDER said:

Another question then…if the goggles are affixed to the bucket/TU should the goggles be included in the helmet entry or have its own entry like the Mudtrooper?

That's a great question. I think they should be shown as affixed to the helmet however wording the text in a manner that states they are affixed but can be separate pieces and not a single molded piece.My understanding is the production helmets had the goggles as separate and have glued(?) them to the helmet. I'm not sure of the method used to affix them, but as long as they appear fixed is probably good. I'm not sure how we could ascertain how things are affixed when trying to assess for L1 or L2?

[nanotek[CMD-DWM]]

I should state that it is unclear how and where the goggles are affixed to the helmet. Is the buckle at the back of the helmet strap affixed? Is it the goggle frame? All of the above?

We should probably stick to more generic specifics in this case.

[TeaJay[TX]]

9 minutes ago, nanotek said:

I should state that it is unclear how and where the goggles are affixed to the helmet. Is the buckle at the back of the helmet strap affixed? Is it the goggle frame? All of the above?

We should probably stick to more generic specifics in this case.

There's no harm in keeping a separate line item for the goggles on the CRL. Keeping the way they are affixed generic is likely the best course of action unless we have concrete information. Since @fb501 was an on-set extra with a helmet, it would be great to get his take on it. He may also have more details on how the goggles/strapping was attached to the helmet.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Sorry for the injection of info here, but I have updated the first post that @nanotek made with the standard part tackling that we do which allows us to present a clear an concise CRL to the LMO team once it is ready by linking to this thread. The first post allows them to quickly see what is proposed as well as allows all of the members to see the current status of it at all times. @Blackwatch sorry that I hijacked your post, but once we get a part done here we can edit that post for a singular point of reference.

CARRY ON!  

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

 Morning everyone, reading and catching up. 

I agree that the goggles should be in the L1/L2 split, and for my own sanity I would screw them in from behind. I have four of these helmets with goggles and other than Veers they float all over the place. The only reason Veers does not is because there are metal clips that hold the strap in place. My Sapper / ATST and IAT goggles literally slip upwards because of how tightly the strap is stretched, and I have glue on  he backside of the strap to try to get it to stay in place. 

So, lets take a look at the helmet for a moment, then lets work the goggles into it. My L2 text proposal is at the bottom.  If we can agree on that as the L2 option, we can clear and lock the helmet.  

@IcyTrooper thanks for the update on the original post 

 

You can scroll up for Helmet Change Log 1.1

An open-faced, flared helmet which consists of a dome with rim and helmet skirt.

A telemetry unit is attached to the right side of the dome and is aligned with the rim.

The telemetry unit consists of a rectangle box with detailing that should match the reference image. The telemetry unit is black.

The lower end of the telemetry unit sits out from the helmet to allow the goggle elastic to feed underneath.

A  raised lip covers the edge of the helmet rim. 

Metal/silver Imperial code disks are positioned on both sides of the helmet skirt.

The helmet is to be painted in matte black to match the armor.

The helmet may feature a black chin cup with grey webbing strap.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

The helmet has a webbing style head suspension similar to work hard hats.

Imperial Code Disks do not feature a notch or groove details.

I propose the following for including the goggles in the L2 text:

Goggles and strap are permanently mounted to the helmet, with the telemetry unit mounted directly atop the goggle strap. 

 

 

[TeaJay[TX]]

Since all troopers who have helmets on-screen have the gray strap, but not all have the chin cup, I'd propose the wording for the following to be adjusted to be a bit more verbose.

"The helmet may feature a black chin cup with grey webbing strap." 

to

"The helmet must have grey webbing strap, but may also include the black chin cup." -- Something along those lines to ensure that the gray webbing strap is included at a minimum.

--

I'm still of strong opinion that the telemetry greeblie must be on top of the goggle strap, whether that means it is denoted in the goggle section or the helmet section... we should really try to make sure we capture that in writing somewhere at a L1 tier. Additional thoughts? 

 

 

[Vanedor[501st]]

Hello all. Long time 501st/IOC member very interested by this costume ? 
 

Quote

The helmet is to be painted in matte black to match the armor.

I'm wondering if it should not be a bit more specific for the color. It seems to me a fairly light back, somewhat greyish. Hrmm.

 

[TeaJay[TX]]

2 hours ago, Vanedor said:

Hello all. Long time 501st/IOC member very interested by this costume ? 
 

I'm wondering if it should not be a bit more specific for the color. It seems to me a fairly light back, somewhat greyish. Hrmm.

For example, I feel the black in this picture is a bit "too black".

That looks like Vincent's proof of concept over at ImperialBoots. That feels very much like a gloss black; at least from what I can tell lighting wise. Heck that might just be raw, unpainted, black ABS...

I don't think Vincent is trying to focus on the armor coloration in this photo, he just wanted to demonstrate the positioning of the seams, pockets, for the soft parts he is currently developing. Also keep in mind that the soft parts seen here is also proof of concept, he's been working on locating an ideal denim to match the on-screen fabric.

Also keep in mind that this is likely studio lighting versus outdoor lighting seen on-screen. I'm thinking a Matte Black automotive style paint will likely get the color and texture we are looking for: 

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Rust-Oleum-Matte-Black-Spray-Paint-Actual-Net-Contents-12-oz/50449048

or 

https://www.menards.com/main/paint/spray-paint/all-purpose-spray-paint/rust-oleum-reg-automotive-custom-lacuer-spray-paint-11-oz/332289/p-2654092911137848-c-8050.htm

[Vanedor[501st]]

32 minutes ago, TeaJay said:

I don't think Vincent is trying to focus on the armor coloration in this photo, he just wanted to demonstrate the positioning of the seams, pockets, for the soft parts he is currently developing. Also keep in mind that the soft parts seen here is also proof of concept, he's been working on locating an ideal denim to match the on-screen fabric.

 

It's certainly not the point of it, for sure. I just wanted to point out that sometimes, "matte black" (it certainly doesn't look glossy to me, at least) can be fairly vague and I was wondering if the color description couldn't be more precise.

Anyhow, I will remove the picture since it seems to bring some confusion.

 

 

[TeaJay[TX]]

2 hours ago, Vanedor said:

It's certainly not the point of it, for sure. I just wanted to point out that sometimes, "matte black" (it certainly doesn't look glossy to me, at least) can be fairly vague and I was wondering if the color description couldn't be more precise.

Anyhow, I will remove the picture since it seems to bring some confusion.

 

 

Sorry about getting stuck on the photo rather than the concept you were stating.

What specific ideas do you have? Are you thinking just adding another adjective to the wording or something more? I don't know if we want to get into fine grain coloration selection similar to how TK's specify French Blue and Gunship Gray.

Each detachment tends to have their own opinion on things like that, it will be best for the DCAs, DL, XO to chime in on that one.

Good question though.

[nanotek[CMD-DWM]]

I was looking through all the reference materials here and over on the IOC thread, can we please have a confirmation of the general colour of the armor? I may have missed something somewhere? When I look at the colour of the armour compared to some other items I get a sense of a very dark grey/green, especially when compared to the straps, trim etc. I chucked a couple of reference images into photoshop and did some colour correction and supports my assumption, but I also know that surrounding reflections, lighting and filters used in post production that have an impact on what we see.

@fb501 @Tarrif Maybe you guys can confirm?

I saw somewhere that Fraser said the chin cup strap was also grey, but what about the chin cup itself?

Is the buckle at the back of the helmet also affixed?

 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Good point on the description of the chincup with webbbing, thats an easy edit. 

To me the color shifts as the armor moves and Im getting both grey and green tones.  I have a color called blackgreen, and its just that; a green that is so dark it looks black, but its green. For the mudtroopers we used Pantone colors when writing the CRLS. We also know the production teams seem to enjoy using Montana Gold color spray cans.  Could we be looking at a very, very dark green, which will color shift as it moves under both on set lighting and ambient light? 

Could we be looking at this?  Exposed to sunlight and set lights, with some level of weathering? It's been brought up that the white Corporal stripes appear to have some black shading to enhance their appearance.  

 

@TeaJay check my verbiage on that, its late and my brain is fried, is this what you were intending? 

 

Helmet Change Log 1.2 

An open-faced, flared helmet which consists of a dome with rim and helmet skirt.

A telemetry unit is attached to the right side of the dome and is aligned with the rim.

The telemetry unit consists of a rectangle box with detailing that should match the reference image. The telemetry unit is black.  color matches the helmet. 

The lower end of the telemetry unit sits out from the helmet to allow the goggle elastic to feed  pass underneath.  The goggle strap is in not mounted to it permanently. 

A raised lip covers the edge of the helmet rim. 

Metal/silver Imperial code disks are positioned on both sides of the helmet skirt.

The helmet is to be painted in matte black to match the armor.

The helmet may feature a black chin cup with grey webbing strap.  has a grey chin webbing chin strap and may feature a chin cup. Chin cup color matches the helmet.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

The helmet has a webbing style head suspension similar to work hard hats.

Imperial Code Disks do not feature a notch or groove details.

I propose the following for including the goggles in the L2 text:

Goggles and strap are permanently mounted to the helmet, with the telemetry unit mounted directly atop the goggle strap. 

 

[TeaJay[TX]]

23 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

 

The helmet may feature a black chin cup with grey webbing strap.  has a grey chin webbing chin strap and may feature a chin cup. Chin cup color matches the helmet.

I'd remove the first "chin" in the sentence so that it reads. "The helmet has a gray webbing chin strap and may feature a chin cup. Chin cup color matches the helmet."

[TeaJay[TX]]

I really hope that @fb501can share thoughts on the armor color. I still feel like the armor is a flat black. Gloss colors always stand out more and look more vibrant. The shoulder straps are darker black no question, maybe even more than the weapons they are carrying. Armor is not as dark as the blasters.  I wonder if the the shoulder straps were just raw casted in black material without any additional paint and that is why it appears to have a darker color.

This picture shows that there is a difference in shade or sheen at a minimum:

Top and bottom lines (green text) that sandwich the thicker white line looks like a gloss black which appears slightly darker in the right lighting than the base armor color.

I still don't see the shade of green on the main armor and I promise I'm not red/green colorblind or anything. Again, really hoping someone who participated in this episode can shed some light

With random hex coloration tools online (with mouse hovered over various sections of the armor values will change), there's this: https://www.ginifab.com/feeds/pms/color_name_in_image.php (probably not worth its salt and likely a distraction from just getting an opinion from someone like @fb501)

But again, lighting within the scene plays a factor, etc. Points made by a few of us.

[Vanedor[501st]]

2 hours ago, TeaJay said:

What specific ideas do you have? Are you thinking just adding another adjective to the wording or something more? I don't know if we want to get into fine grain coloration selection similar to how TK's specify French Blue and Gunship Gray.

Each detachment tends to have their own opinion on things like that, it will be best for the DCAs, DL, XO to chime in on that one.

Good question though.

It's just that I think the matte black wording seemed a bit too vague for me. It looks more greenish/greyish than pure black to me. I think the color of the helmet/armor pieces is critical of the way the costume looks. It might be the lighting. The very first Star Wars costume I worked on was a grey imperial officer so I know a bit about this ? But I would certainly be glad to hear the opinion of someone who had a firsthand view of the costume.

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

I'd echo that the views of the guys who saw it on set should be paramount in making the final call.

I'm no expert, but I do a fair amount of eyeball colour matching for miniature painting and in the most natural lighting I'm definitely seeing a dark green-grey tint. Kind of reminds me of a "German Grey" from Vallejo that I use a lot to create the impression of black, while still contrasting with matte or gloss blacks slightly. I'd be surprised if the real thing wasn't close to that - maybe just a shade or two darker.

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

5 hours ago, TeaJay said:

I really hope that @fb501can share thoughts on the armor color. I still feel like the armor is a flat black. Gloss colors always stand out more and look more vibrant. The shoulder straps are darker black no question, maybe even more than the weapons they are carrying. Armor is not as dark as the blasters.  I wonder if the the shoulder straps were just raw casted in black material without any additional paint and that is why it appears to have a darker color.

This picture shows that there is a difference in shade or sheen at a minimum:

Top and bottom lines (green text) that sandwich the thicker white line looks like a gloss black which appears slightly darker in the right lighting than the base armor color.

I still don't see the shade of green on the main armor and I promise I'm not red/green colorblind or anything. Again, really hoping someone who participated in this episode can shed some light

With random hex coloration tools online (with mouse hovered over various sections of the armor values will change), there's this: https://www.ginifab.com/feeds/pms/color_name_in_image.php (probably not worth its salt and likely a distraction from just getting an opinion from someone like @fb501)

But again, lighting within the scene plays a factor, etc. Points made by a few of us.

That's a good spot on the gloss around the white bar. Makes me wonder whether a decal was used with a gloss black border? It would make sense to me to treat it like that unless the guys from the set can say otherwise, rather than assuming there are different applications of matte and gloss paint on the hard armour.

[Felix[501st]]

I would say that for the color of the armor is defiantly a very dark grey, that it variates based on illumination but also depending if it is "wet" by the rain or not. I mean you can clearly see here a much dark green:

And here a much  black armor (since these troopers had to wait under the rain, you can see that their vest is also darker):

Also if we look at the same trooper but in the black version (Ferrix), we can see that the armor is black, but it definitely looks different from the Aldhani version we are discussing here (for example the straps are completely black). We'll have to wait to see them in action and have more references, but right now my guess is that while the Aldhani looks like a dark green version (probably linked with the imperial army), on Ferrix they are linked with the Stormtrooper corps (and thus the black of the officers and the troopers). So if this is the case, I would say that the armor should definitely be a dark green rather than black :

Regarding the white strap, I believe @TeaJay point out an important thing with the black gloss line around the white and that @tipperaryred is right and it might have been a decal (it really shines a lot in these shots):

 

And finally for the goggles in the helmet, I think they are glue since in this picture you can see a white/grey thing behind the goggles stripe, which for me seems like the point in which the stripe was glue into the helmet:

Going back to the helmet discussion, and to stay on target, I really like the wording in the helmet proposition about " color match the armor" to solve the problem about the armor color. Then we can specify the color in the armor, and with luck we can have more feedback before doing so.  On my side I'm quite happy with the proposition as it is, and I believe the helmet part (Helmet Change Log 1.2 )  is ok to go.

If we want to introduce the hat version,  I would say that based on the army trooper hat, we can go for something like: 

Hat, Olive - Version 2

• Fabric is a medium weight suiting material of olive green. matches the tunic and pants.
• Base of the hat is conical, with a crown about 4" (101.6mm) tall.
• Front and rear “flaps” overlap on the sides and are about 4" (101.6mm) high.
• Front bill extends 3" (76mm) down, decorated with (5) (6) or (7) concentric stitches.
• An Imperial Code Disk may be is positioned in the center of the front vertical “flap,” but is not required.

OPTIONAL Level two certification 

• Rear flap is slightly lower than the crown heigh (lees than 4")
• Disks do not feature a notch or groove details.

 

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

2 hours ago, Felix said:

I would say that for the color of the armor is defiantly a very dark grey, that it variates based on illumination but also depending if it is "wet" by the rain or not. I mean you can clearly see here a much dark green:

And here a much  black armor (since these troopers had to wait under the rain, you can see that their vest is also darker):

Also if we look at the same trooper but in the black version (Ferrix), we can see that the armor is black, but it definitely looks different from the Aldhani version we are discussing here (for example the straps are completely black). We'll have to wait to see them in action and have more references, but right now my guess is that while the Aldhani looks like a dark green version (probably linked with the imperial army), on Ferrix they are linked with the Stormtrooper corps (and thus the black of the officers and the troopers). So if this is the case, I would say that the armor should definitely be a dark green rather than black :

Regarding the white strap, I believe @TeaJay point out an important thing with the black gloss line around the white and that @tipperaryred is right and it might have been a decal (it really shines a lot in these shots):

 

And finally for the goggles in the helmet, I think they are glue since in this picture you can see a white/grey thing behind the goggles stripe, which for me seems like the point in which the stripe was glue into the helmet:

Going back to the helmet discussion, and to stay on target, I really like the wording in the helmet proposition about " color match the armor" to solve the problem about the armor color. Then we can specify the color in the armor, and with luck we can have more feedback before doing so.  On my side I'm quite happy with the proposition as it is, and I believe the helmet part (Helmet Change Log 1.2 )  is ok to go.

If we want to introduce the hat version,  I would say that based on the army trooper hat, we can go for something like: 

Hat, Olive - Version 2

• Fabric is a medium weight suiting material of olive green. matches the tunic and pants.
• Base of the hat is conical, with a crown about 4" (101.6mm) tall.
• Front and rear “flaps” overlap on the sides and are about 4" (101.6mm) high.
• Front bill extends 3" (76mm) down, decorated with (5) (6) or (7) concentric stitches.
• An Imperial Code Disk may be is positioned in the center of the front vertical “flap,” but is not required.

OPTIONAL Level two certification 

• Rear flap is slightly lower than the crown heigh (lees than 4")
• Disks do not feature a notch or groove details.

 

Great summation mate. I'd agree with simply stating that the helmet colour should match the armour for now. You're right that there's plenty more of the season still to come, where we might get clearer views and a chance to contrast with the Ferrix version.

Are there any other helmet details still to agree on?

[TeaJay[TX]]

Helmet should be good at this point in my opinion until we can nail down an overall color for the armor. The more I look at that German Gray the more I feel like my eyes are opening to it not being flat black.

For the black stripe around the white stripe on shoulder, I also thought it was a decal until I saw this: 

in the ridge of the armor details you can see it smoothly and cleanly recess in. Sure you could do this with a decal, but if you think about all other costumes with this style shoulder denotation on shoretroopers, tanktrooper, etc. It's always painted on.

 

For the soft cap, Felix's write up is a great start.  From folks like Vincent over at ImperialBoots, who live and breathe fabrics/textiles and colors, he's been testing with mixing dyes that are "Army Green" and "Coffee" to get the coloration extremely close.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

We will get to the hat, once we are finished with the helmet and goggles. 

 

@TeaJay Ill fix the line, I just prefer to be very descriptive, as I've seen GMLs argue points that we would otherwise take for granted. 

 

Since we seem to be in agreement with the helmet description, I will make the one change to the helmet chin cup description.  PLEASE review the helmet change log text at the bottom of this post. We need to clear and lock that before we move on to anything else. 

 

Once we get to the armor we need to come to a consensus on the color.   

We agree that:

The shoulder bridges are darker than the armor, even when wet on Aldhani. The armor matches the helmet color. 

The white stripe has a black stripe bordering it which is darker than the armor, even when the armor is wet.

The blaster is darker than the armor.

When dry the helmet and armor cast greenish grey. When wet the armor and helmet cast grey.   The only other color I am familiar with that does this is United States Navy Engine Grey FS 16081. Seasprite helicopters and radial engines were painted this color, and it shifted depending on lighting.   This paint appears darker than USN Engine Grey.

 

Helmet change log 1.3 

An open-faced, flared helmet which consists of a dome with rim and helmet skirt.

A telemetry unit is attached to the right side of the dome and is aligned with the rim.

The telemetry unit consists of a rectangle box with detailing that should match the reference image. The telemetry unit color matches the helmet. 

The lower end of the telemetry unit sits out from the helmet to allow the goggle elastic to pass underneath.  The goggle strap is in not mounted to it permanently. 

A raised lip covers the edge of the helmet rim. 

Metal/silver Imperial code disks are positioned on both sides of the helmet skirt.

The helmet is to be painted to match the armor.

The helmet has a grey webbing chin strap and may feature a cup. Chin cup color matches the helmet.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

The helmet has a webbing style head suspension similar to work hard hats.

Imperial Code Disks do not feature a notch or groove details.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Goggles and strap are permanently mounted to the helmet, with the telemetry unit mounted directly atop the goggle strap. 

 

If we are in agreement with this and there is no further discussion on the helmet, we can proceed on to the goggles. 

If there is further discussion on the helmet, now is the time for it rather than down the line after we have it locked down. 

 

[TeaJay[TX]]

18 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

We will get to the hat, once we are finished with the helmet and goggles. 

 

@TeaJay Ill fix the line, I just prefer to be very descriptive, as I've seen GMLs argue points that we would otherwise take for granted. 

 

Since we seem to be in agreement with the helmet description, I will make the one change to the helmet chin cup description.  PLEASE review the helmet change log text at the bottom of this post. We need to clear and lock that before we move on to anything else. 

 

Once we get to the armor we need to come to a consensus on the color.   

We agree that:

The shoulder bridges are darker than the armor, even when wet on Aldhani. The armor matches the helmet color. 

The white stripe has a black stripe bordering it which is darker than the armor, even when the armor is wet.

The blaster is darker than the armor.

When dry the helmet and armor cast greenish grey. When wet the armor and helmet cast grey.   The only other color I am familiar with that does this is United States Navy Engine Grey FS 16081. Seasprite helicopters and radial engines were painted this color, and it shifted depending on lighting.   This paint appears darker than USN Engine Grey.

 

Helmet change log 1.3 

An open-faced, flared helmet which consists of a dome with rim and helmet skirt.

A telemetry unit is attached to the right side of the dome and is aligned with the rim.

The telemetry unit consists of a rectangle box with detailing that should match the reference image. The telemetry unit color matches the helmet. 

The lower end of the telemetry unit sits out from the helmet to allow the goggle elastic to pass underneath.  The goggle strap is in not mounted to it permanently. 

A raised lip covers the edge of the helmet rim. 

Metal/silver Imperial code disks are positioned on both sides of the helmet skirt.

The helmet is to be painted to match the armor.

The helmet has a grey webbing chin strap and may feature a cup. Chin cup color matches the helmet.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

The helmet has a webbing style head suspension similar to work hard hats.

Imperial Code Disks do not feature a notch or groove details.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Goggles and strap are permanently mounted to the helmet, with the telemetry unit mounted directly atop the goggle strap. 

 

If we are in agreement with this and there is no further discussion on the helmet, we can proceed on to the goggles. 

If there is further discussion on the helmet, now is the time for it rather than down the line after we have it locked down. 

 

Just to clarify, it sounds like you're giving the member the flexibility to not affixing everything to the helmet with this L1 statement: "The lower end of the telemetry unit sits out from the helmet to allow the goggle elastic to pass underneath.  The goggle strap is in not mounted to it permanently. "
 

with the L2 option denoting that they are permanently mounted... I think that is a fair option as long as the telemetry unit is on top of the goggle elastic in some fashion.

 

I'm digging it...