Imperial Army Trooper - Andor - CRL Discussion

[Felix[501st]]

9 hours ago, TeaJay said:

[...]

I would allow for a range on this one... thoughts? 

You are absolutely right, and with the evidence that you share, I agree with your suggestion. I also agree that the 6 lines shouldn't be on lvl 2. In the end with the screen evidence, it is clear there were different number of stiches. Great work!

Here is the modified version with the 5, 7 and 8

Hat, Olive - Version 2

• Fabric is a medium weight suiting material of olive green. matches the tunic and pants.
• Base of the hat is conical, with a crown about 4" (101.6mm) tall.
• Front and rear “flaps” overlap on the sides and are about 4" (101.6mm) high.
• Front bill extends 3" (76mm) down, decorated with (5), (6),  (7) or (8)  concentric stitches.
• An Imperial Code Disk may be is positioned in the center of the front vertical “flap,” but is not required.

OPTIONAL Level two certification 

• Rear flap is slightly lower than the crown heigh (lees than 4")
• Disks do not feature a notch or groove details.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

On 11/5/2022 at 10:41 PM, TeaJay said:

Well it looks a bit wild west, just like the original hat CRL write-up that mentions 5,6, or 7 concentric stitches.

These photos are quick grabs from my phone on our large TV so that it was easier for me to count.

First up, the softcap soldier telling the helmeted soldiers to form up... this hat appears to only have 5 stitch lines:

 

Next up is Andor, his hat has a count of 6 stitched lines:

Skeen also has a count of 6:

Nemik also with a count of 6:

And last and the most stitchiest of them all, Taramyn with a total of 8 stitch lines:

 

-----

Seeing this much variance, I think we should revert to the original description with an added "8" for level 1 to say: "Front bill extends 3" (76mm) down, decorated with 5,  6, 7, or 8 concentric stitches.

and perhaps have a L2 statement that specifically states 6?... to be honest, it's likely unnecessary since the goal of a higher level is more screen accuracy, simply since Taramyn's hat have so many... but the other three do have 6 stitches each... the "Form up" soldier has 5...

I would allow for a range on this one... thoughts? 

Do you think Tamaryn’s rank plays a part in the lines?  Just thinking out loud

[TeaJay[TX]]

1 hour ago, RAIDER said:

Do you think Tamaryn’s rank plays a part in the lines?  Just thinking out loud

For the hat stitching, I do not think its tied to rank. I think it's just hats being made in bulk by the costuming department and someone got a little wild with stitching.

Rank appears to be is denoted on the left shoulder, soft jacket either no black stripe, a single black stripe, or two black stripes... and on the armor the left shoulder bell having two thin black lines with thicker white line.

None:

One Black Stripe:

Two Black Stripes:

Shoulder Bell two thin black lines with thick center white line:

 

 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Yea @TeaJay I was aware of the bars…was just curious if a correlation between those and the hats existed…ie do all the guys wout bars have the same hat, all guys w bars have same hat and so on.

But if it’s confirmed there is no correlation that answers my question. Thanks!

[TeaJay[TX]]

I reviewed the episode again and could not find any decent close-ups of soldiers in the same style uniform (armored or non-armored) outside of one soldier tucked away watching all the madness... same one that tries to take down Andor... here's two images, he has 6 stitch lines and no rank appears on his left shoulder. The most common stitch count being 6, but we've seen variance across the board.

Worth checking if you're feeling squirrelly, maybe there's something I overlooked. My thoughts are stitch count is unrelated to rank.

 

 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

great work guys! 

I was on the road for like 5 days so Im so happy to see this solid discussion. Hats have never been a big thing in Spec Ops, you guys have really done great service with this discussion. I figured that the 6 ring hat was a face character, but apparently not. Sewing team A made this size hat, Sewing team B made that size hat and sewing Team C made another size. Before lunch they got 8 lines on. After lunch, only 5.  Something like that. 

I originally felt that 6 rings would be an L2, but apparently not.  There is no apparent correlation between the two. 

 

So with what Felix has written for us, we have:

Hat, Change log 1.1

Hat - Version 2

• Fabric matches the tunic and pants.
• Base of the hat is conical, with a crown about 4" (101.6mm) tall.
• Front and rear “flaps” overlap on the sides and are about 4" (101.6mm) high.
• Front bill extends 3" (76mm) down, decorated with (5), (6),  (7) or (8)  concentric stitches.
• An Imperial Code Disk is positioned in the center of the front vertical “flap”.

OPTIONAL Level two certification 

• Rear flap is slightly lower than the crown heigh (lees than 4")
• Disks do not feature a notch or groove details.

Lets  agree, lock this down, and move on to the blouse and trousers. 

[TeaJay[TX]]

1 hour ago, Blackwatch said:

great work guys! 

I was on the road for like 5 days so Im so happy to see this solid discussion. Hats have never been a big thing in Spec Ops, you guys have really done great service with this discussion. I figured that the 6 ring hat was a face character, but apparently not. Sewing team A made this size hat, Sewing team B made that size hat and sewing Team C made another size. Before lunch they got 8 lines on. After lunch, only 5.  Something like that. 

I originally felt that 6 rings would be an L2, but apparently not.  There is no apparent correlation between the two. 

 

So with what Felix has written for us, we have:

Hat, Change log 1.1

Hat - Version 2

• Fabric matches the tunic and pants.
• Base of the hat is conical, with a crown about 4" (101.6mm) tall.
• Front and rear “flaps” overlap on the sides and are about 4" (101.6mm) high.
• Front bill extends 3" (76mm) down, decorated with (5), (6),  (7) or (8)  concentric stitches.
• An Imperial Code Disk is positioned in the center of the front vertical “flap”.

OPTIONAL Level two certification 

• Rear flap is slightly lower than the crown heigh (lees than 4")
• Disks do not feature a notch or groove details.

Lets  agree, lock this down, and move on to the blouse and trousers. 

Agreed on this and ready to move on when others are.

[Hoda[CMD-DCA]]

Do we want to talk about the optionality of one over the other? Or do we want to do versioning of a trooper w a helmet, and a version with a hat, etc.

(Hi everyone! Exciting to see this moving - just caught up on all the things, exciting to see more army units!!!!!)

[Hoda[CMD-DCA]]

2 minutes ago, Hoda said:

Do we want to talk about the optionality of one over the other? Or do we want to do versioning of a trooper w a helmet, and a version with a hat, etc.

(Hi everyone! Exciting to see this moving - just caught up on all the things, exciting to see more army units!!!!!)

Nvm lol I saw we are already doing the versioning. Ignore me.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

22 hours ago, Hoda said:

Nvm lol I saw we are already doing the versioning. Ignore me.

Never!

but yeah we will tab it out like the mudtrooper is.  

Ok, locking down this version of the Hat, putting it in our "finalized" topic, and moving on to the other soft goods. 

Just a side note, Im working on another project that is not going NEARLY as well as this is.  Differnt clubs, different discussion styles. 

Change log 1.1 (Final)

Hat - Version 2 

Fabric matches the tunic and pants.
Base of the hat is conical, with a crown about 4" (101.6mm) tall.
Front and rear “flaps” overlap on the sides and are about 4" (101.6mm) high.
Front bill extends 3" (76mm) down, decorated with (5), (6),  (7) or (8)  concentric stitches.
An Imperial Code Disk is positioned in the center of the front vertical “flap”.

OPTIONAL Level two certification 

Rear flap is slightly lower than the crown heigh (lees than 4")
Disks do not feature a notch or groove details.

 

 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Soft good, we will start with the blouse/ tunic. 

Its not a Mudtrooper tunic so Im not going to use the exact text from the mudtrooper, but I will loosely write a framework that will get us going. 

Tunic

Change log 1.0

A long-sleeved, olive green gray jacket that falls between upper and just to  mid-thigh, with no visible zippers or buttons.

Fabric has a "pilled" texture with a visible weave. 

Has a high mandarin style collar with an open space in front.  a left over right closure that rises from the front of the tunic.

Has two panels on either side of the front, extending to the bottom of the jacket.

Has a stitched "cuff" on the sleeve that extends to around the middle of the forearm. Appearance of the cuff may be created by top stitching.

If side pockets are present, they are built into the jacket with no covering flaps present.

No outer stitched pockets are acceptable unless they are fully covered by the armor.

Shall be moderately to heavily weathered.

The front closure overlaps left over right and rises from the hem at the bottom of the tunic to the top of the collar.

Four pockets are present on the jacket front, covered by large flapped closures.

 

 

[TeaJay[TX]]

I'll kick things off with some images and talk through them a bit, then can help nail down the CRL text descriptions.

 

The big thing to note on this one, as @Blackwatch pointed out, it is not the Mudtrooper tunic/jacket... it also isn't the ICAT driver tunic/jacket (seen in Mando S2). 

 

One of the best full front shots that we have of the tunic/jacket is this:

The material has been confirmed to be a jean/denim material that has been dyed (color and its variation from trooper to trooper to be discussed later). Total of four pockets on the front of the tunic/jacket; all pockets have flaps covering the upper portion of each pocket. Each sleeve has a pocket on the upper arm; also with flaps covering the upper portion of the arm pockets. The tunic/jacket's front pockets appear to be two different sizes, the lower pockets are a bit larger than the ones found on the chest.

The front opening area of the tunic/jacket has four rectangular velcro spots with an X through them keeping the tunic/jacket closed. There may be a zipper under this, but this is at least hiding the zipper.
 

You can see from the sketches from @bubuc44 for the tailor mockup matching the design a bit more clearly. This also matches the sketches from what Vincent over at ImperialBoots has done.

Sketch from bubuc44 tailor:

Sketch from Vincent at ImperialBoots:

It's important to note that the cuffs are almost or about mid-distance to the elbow (as also noted in the above sketches):

While we are looking at this picture take a look at this:

There appears to be black tunic belt hooks (one on each side) for only a handful of the soldiers. They appear on most "hero" characters, but these tunic belt hooks are not on all actors. The reason I point this out, means that the tunic/jacket will likely have holes near the waist of the jacket to allow these hooks to come through. I think this shouldn't necessarily need to be explicitly written in the CRL simply because not all troopers have it, but a discussion point for us to talk through....

 

The rear of the tunic/jacket has a horizontal shoulder seam with two seams on each side below that horizontal shoulder seam going vertically down the back:

Also noted in the rear tunic/jacket sketch from ImperialBoots:

Here are some additional initial photos the the early mockups from ImperialBoots (note that this is the undyed version of the jacket):

The mandarin style collar seems similar to other costumes within the legion:

We've previously discussed that the tunic can have black cloth rank bars on the left shoulder. None, 1, or 2. Here is an example of two rank bars and one, other examples can be found in one of my previous posts above:

 

When it boils down to measurements of each pocket and seam distances for the opening/closing flap of the tunic/jacket, etc. I would have to defer to others. I would imagine this will slightly vary depending on the body type of the wearer (i.e. height, weight, body shape). 

I think that's my brain dump for now, I will chime in when I can recharge a bit.

[TeaJay[TX]]

Here's some follow up on coloration and how the uniform colors change from soldier to soldier and even from a single soldier's tunic/jacket to trousers. 

Taramyn's uniform appears to be slightly more tan/coffee colored compared to Andor's:

It's also noticeable here with him and Nemik:

You also have situations where the soldiers are wet while filming on location leading to their uniforms looking a bit more darker than some earlier shots:

But this soldier takes the cake with his olive green top and greenish/tan bottoms:

This shows that there is some wiggle-room on the the exact coloration from soldier to soldier, likely how the costumes were probably bulk dyed in different batches or exposed to different weather (raining versus not) possibly leading to the colors changing from scene to scene, I'm sure lighting also plays a major effect... when they are inside the vault some of the uniforms have a much more tan color likely due to the interior lighting.

Vincent at ImperialBoots has been testing with a mix powder dye of army green / coffee and it looks extremely close to the on-screen look of the soft goods.

I think since there is a slight variation in color of the soft parts of the uniform, there should be a color pallet range. Olive / Army Green / Coffee -- thoughts?

[TeaJay[TX]]

Tunic

A long-sleeved, olive green gray jacket that falls between upper and just to  mid-thigh, with no visible zippers or buttons.

Fabric has a denim "pilled" textured material with a visible weave. 

Has a high mandarin style collar with an open space in front.  a left over right closure that rises from the front of the tunic.

Has two panels on either side of the front, extending to the bottom of the jacket.

Has a stitched "cuff" on the sleeve that extends to around the middle of the forearm. Appearance of the cuff may be created by top stitching.

If side pockets are present, they are built into the jacket with no covering flaps present.

No outer stitched pockets are acceptable unless they are fully covered by the armor.

Shall be moderately to heavily weathered.

The front closure overlaps left over right and rises from the hem at the bottom of the tunic to the top of the collar. 

Four pockets are present on the jacket front, covered by large flapped closures. Lower pockets are larger than the ones on the upper chest.

The rear of the jacket has a horizontal seam present near the upper back. Two vertical seams start below the horizontal upper back seam moving down the bottom of the jacket. 

One pocket is present on each arm of the jacket, each covered by large flapped closures. Above the left arm pocket flap, up to 2 black fabric rank bars may be present.

Cuffs on the sleeves are about mid-distance to the elbow.

 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

The jacket may have optional holes near the waist of the jacket to allow tunic hooks to be used to hold up the belt. These optional holes must be covered by the belt.

If left arm rank bars are present, the black fabric shall have 3 equidistant horizontal stitch lines through each rank bar.


-----

 

Here's the photo proof of the 3 stitch lines for each black fabric rank bar:

 

I feel like the three stitch lines per black fabric rank bar should be a L2 feature, but ok with it if folks think it should be a L1 requirement.

----

I can see us removing the L2 line item about the holes in the Jacket for the tunic hooks since they are not present on all soldiers. 

I'm also interested in the others thoughts on flexibility of coloration of the uniform and how it should be written in text for the CRL... I do think there should be some slight variations to the greenish tan... it still has that army green / olive color, but some could have a hint of light tan added into the green... thoughts?

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

@TeaJay you are all over it like a cheap suit! (pun intended) Great work, and you are seeing things that my tired old eyes are struggling to see.

The rank bars remind me of plain elastic or webbing. What do you believe they are made from? They stick out away from the arm, makes me wonder if they are felt material. 

Im for the holes at the belt line. The 1934 (?) pattern Wermacht blouse had them for the internal suspension system, and had internal suspenders to hold the weight of the belt and field gear. 

Im going to take what you wrote as the outline and work with that.  Im going to rename it to change log 2.0.

We stated in the hat that the color must match the tunic and pants. If they are to be matching, are we going to allow mismatched colors, or should the maker ensure that the dye batch is all the same?

I ask becaue Im part of a club that tries to color match all our uniforms to a consistent shade to match what was seen on screen, but of course variation exists.  

Saying that, should the hat match the jacket, or the pants, or both? 

Jacket

Change log 2.0

Jacket

 

A long-sleeved, olive green  jacket that falls just to  mid-thigh, with no visible zippers or buttons.

Color of the jacket ranges from olive green to olive tan. Olive drab will not be approved. 

Fabric has a denim textured material with a visible weave. 

Has a high mandarin style collar with  a left over right closure that rises from the front of the tunic.

The front closure overlaps left over right and rises from the hem at the bottom of the tunic to the top of the collar. 

Four pockets are present on the jacket front, covered by large flapped closures. Lower pockets are larger than the ones on the upper chest.

The rear of the jacket has a horizontal seam present near the upper back. Two vertical seams start below the horizontal upper back seam moving down the bottom of the jacket. 

One pocket is present on each arm of the jacket, each covered by large flapped closures. Above the left arm pocket flap, up to 2 black fabric rank bars may be present.

Cuffs on the sleeves are about mid-distance to the elbow. The material folds back on itself to form the cuff. 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

The jacket may have optional holes near the waist of the jacket to allow tunic hooks to be used to hold up the belt. These optional holes must be covered by the belt.

If left arm rank bars are present, the black fabric shall have 3 equidistant horizontal stitch lines through each rank bar.

The front jacket flap will have rectangular stitch marks with a stitched X inside where velcro is attached to keep the flap closed. 

 

Thoughts and discussion? 

[TeaJay[TX]]

2 hours ago, Blackwatch said:

The rank bars remind me of plain elastic or webbing. What do you believe they are made from? They stick out away from the arm, makes me wonder if they are felt material. 

Great question. Let me do some more studying of the scenes for this one. 

 

2 hours ago, Blackwatch said:

We stated in the hat that the color must match the tunic and pants. If they are to be matching, are we going to allow mismatched colors, or should the maker ensure that the dye batch is all the same?

I suggest that we have in the CRL write-up encouragement of dyeing the hat, tunic, and pants all within the same dye batch to allow for moderate to high color consistency across their specific uniform. I think it should be allowed to see some slight color deviation from trooper to trooper from the range we've seen on-screen with the slightly more coffee-tan green of Taramyn's uniform to the more army green seen with the wet soldiers walking.    

There will always be that one person in the legion that will argue for different coloration on a single uniform strictly from the screenshot of the solder here:

FISD has the same situation with one of the ANH TKs that were missing the blue tube stripes on their helmet in one scene... if someone wants to be that unique... I mean it is screen accurate... but likely should be discouraged.

 

I'll do some more thinking and post later today.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Agreed about that "one guy", weve seen that all over the various forums. 

I would prefer to see the fabric be one color, one dye batch if possibie. Each trooper may look different, but thats normal. Line ten TKs up and one will be yellowish.  Ive never seen two TDs match, and most black fabric fades from washing. 

 

[TeaJay[TX]]

2 hours ago, Blackwatch said:

Agreed about that "one guy", weve seen that all over the various forums. 

I would prefer to see the fabric be one color, one dye batch if possibie. Each trooper may look different, but thats normal. Line ten TKs up and one will be yellowish.  Ive never seen two TDs match, and most black fabric fades from washing. 

 

Agreed. I'd prefer for us to stick to that Army Green / Olive Green color and avoid the more tanned-green uniforms that seem to be much less common throughout episode 5 and 6. We should specifically state that the hat, tunic/jacket, and trousers/pants should all be of similar color from the same dye lot / dye batch / dyed together to have a uniform appearance.

Another example of slight coloration difference from episode 5:

---

Regarding the black fabric rank bars... After digging through episode 6 some more the best time to see them up close are at runtime 28:56 - 29:03.  There are moments where the rank bars are more crisp in the shot, but it isn't amazing since its a darker scene. From staring at that scene looped probably a dozen times, I don't think it is black elastic with stitching, because elastic usually has much more texture (knit vs woven). It's definitely not woven elastic and I have my doubts its knit either...

But!!! Episode 5 -- timestamp 21:10

It looks like a simple cotton cloth or maybe felt that is folded on the upper and lower (and maybe the sides -- edges are a bit frilly in sections). It looks about 1 inch wide and roughly the length of the shoulder pocket. I'd imagine there is stitching all around the four edges and three horizontal lines stitched through them.

 

Here's placement of the single black fabric rank bar (better lighting in Episode 5) --

All black fabric rank bars appear to have those 3 equidistant horizontal stitch lines through them. So I'm not sure if you'd want to change it to a level 1 requirement or keep the 3 stitch lines at L2 and just having the black cotton fabric rank bar present is satisfactory... will leave it up to your call.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Im catching a felt feel on this, especially folded back the way it is.

[TeaJay[TX]]

1 hour ago, Blackwatch said:

Im catching a felt feel on this, especially folded back the way it is.

I've been scratching my head a bit on this one... so I asked my wife and she swears its this style of heavy weight brushed cotton called Duvetyne. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duvetyne

 

https://www.prestigelinens.com/duvetyne-fabric/18545-duvetyne-fabric-fabric-by-the-yard-black.html

https://www.fabric.com/buy/0751689/9-oz-brushed-cotton-duvetyne-black

"Duvetyne, also known as Commando Cloth, is a flame resistant, brushed matte, woven fabric. Works great for window treatments. It is commonly used for masking in the theater, film and motion picture industry. It’s also used to control light spill in film and photography studios."

If it's commonly used in the film industry, perhaps they had excess that they cut up and sewed onto the uniforms to create rank bars? No clue, but she seemed confident. 

 

[Felix[501st]]

Wow, great work in the Tunic! 

I would say that indeed, while colors on the overall uniform might variate between members, a members should aim to have the same color in all his uniform (use the same fabric and same (coloring). For me it is the same situation as with the "Line officers" in the IOC. Where you are asked to have consistency between the hat, vest and pants, but then there are so many shades of green for the line officers depending on the maker. 

From @bubuc44 part and myself, our tailor has started to create the patterns and she will be working in @bubuc44 uniform shortly. Mine will come probably early in 2023. For what I see in the discussion, everything matches what we have seen and identified.  And I agree that size and measures of pockets should be proportional to the overall costume fit in the member. So not giving exact measures I think is good. 

For the lines regarding rank (by the way in the IOC we argued that one line could be for lance corporal and two for corporal), I think you are right in your last post @TeaJay. Maybe we can put something like this:

Quote

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

If left arm rank bars are present, the black fabric should be similar to duvetyne type of fabric. Arm ranks shall have 3 equidistant horizontal stitch lines through each rank bar.

Another 2 things related to CRL discussion and versions. 

First, related to CRL accessories to this trooper version (I guess we might discuss them in the end). But are we looking into having things as the "headphones" as optional accessories? And if so, I guess they would be only for the corporal (2 bars) since is the only one with "headphones" seen on Andor. 

Second, as we approach the last 2 episodes, I think we'll be seeing the Ferrix black variant of the costume. My guess is that it would be another CRL discussion, right? I think the costumes would be quite similar apart from the color, so the Ferrix CRL could get a lot from our current CRL.

Sorry for this two last 'off topic" questions. But since it is the first time in special ops, with CRL, I was just wondering how we deal with these things here. 

 

[TeaJay[TX]]

40 minutes ago, Felix said:

Wow, great work in the Tunic! 

I would say that indeed, while colors on the overall uniform might variate between members, a members should aim to have the same color in all his uniform (use the same fabric and same (coloring). For me it is the same situation as with the "Line officers" in the IOC. Where you are asked to have consistency between the hat, vest and pants, but then there are so many shades of green for the line officers depending on the maker. 

From @bubuc44 part and myself, our tailor has started to create the patterns and she will be working in @bubuc44 uniform shortly. Mine will come probably early in 2023. For what I see in the discussion, everything matches what we have seen and identified.  And I agree that size and measures of pockets should be proportional to the overall costume fit in the member. So not giving exact measures I think is good. 

For the lines regarding rank (by the way in the IOC we argued that one line could be for lance corporal and two for corporal), I think you are right in your last post @TeaJay. Maybe we can put something like this:

Another 2 things related to CRL discussion and versions. 

First, related to CRL accessories to this trooper version (I guess we might discuss them in the end). But are we looking into having things as the "headphones" as optional accessories? And if so, I guess they would be only for the corporal (2 bars) since is the only one with "headphones" seen on Andor. 

Second, as we approach the last 2 episodes, I think we'll be seeing the Ferrix black variant of the costume. My guess is that it would be another CRL discussion, right? I think the costumes would be quite similar apart from the color, so the Ferrix CRL could get a lot from our current CRL.

Sorry for this two last 'off topic" questions. But since it is the first time in special ops, with CRL, I was just wondering how we deal with these things here. 

 

I like your latest L2 text description.

I could see the headphones being listed as an optional accessory, but ideally the exact type need to be identified for the text description. Optional stand-alone accessories like weapons and the headphones, should likely be saved towards the end. Optional accessories directly impacting approval should be noted if it is associated with a component such as the belt having a Blaster pistol holster. We can lean on @Blackwatch since he is leading organization of the CRL.

 

The Ferrix black variant should be a separate CRL that, like you mentioned, can utilize many of the text descriptions here as a base and can be modified to fit the Ferrix Solider. I'm sure there may be some subtleties to the Ferrix costume that will need to be discovered and discussed on a separate thread.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Agreed, agreed and-

Ive seen that fabric before, and the whole "motion picture industry"  bit means that this stuff is readily available an surely there is one panel that got damaged and laying about, ready to be harvested. I like the wiki article describing how the space scenes for Star Trek were filmed.  

 

So here we are with the next change log:

Change log 2.1

Jacket

A long-sleeved, olive green  jacket that falls just to mid-thigh, with no visible zippers or buttons. Olive drab will not be approved. 

Color of the jacket ranges from olive green to olive tan.

Fabric has a denim textured material with a visible weave. 

Has a high mandarin style collar with  a left over right closure that rises from the front of the tunic.

The front closure overlaps left over right and rises from the hem at the bottom of the tunic to the top of the collar. 

Four pockets are present on the jacket front, covered by large flapped closures. Lower pockets are larger than the ones on the upper chest.

The rear of the jacket has a horizontal seam present near the upper back. Two vertical seams start below the horizontal upper back seam moving down the bottom of the jacket. 

One pocket is present on each arm of the jacket, each covered by large flapped closures. Above the left arm pocket flap, up to 2 black fabric rank bars may be present.

Cuffs on the sleeves are about mid-distance to the elbow. The material folds back on itself to form the cuff. 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

The jacket may have optional holes near the waist of the jacket to allow tunic hooks to be used to hold up the belt. These optional holes must be covered by the belt.

If left arm rank bars are present, the black fabric should be similar to duvetyn type of fabric and will  have 3 equidistant horizontal stitch lines through each rank bar.

The front jacket flap will have rectangular stitch marks with a stitched X inside where velcro is attached to keep the flap closed. 

 

[TeaJay[TX]]

4 hours ago, Blackwatch said:

Agreed, agreed and-

Ive seen that fabric before, and the whole "motion picture industry"  bit means that this stuff is readily available an surely there is one panel that got damaged and laying about, ready to be harvested. I like the wiki article describing how the space scenes for Star Trek were filmed.  

 

So here we are with the next change log:

Change log 2.1

Jacket

A long-sleeved, olive green  jacket that falls just to mid-thigh, with no visible zippers or buttons. Olive drab will not be approved. 

Color of the jacket ranges from olive green to olive tan.

Fabric has a denim textured material with a visible weave. 

Has a high mandarin style collar with  a left over right closure that rises from the front of the tunic.

The front closure overlaps left over right and rises from the hem at the bottom of the tunic to the top of the collar. 

Four pockets are present on the jacket front, covered by large flapped closures. Lower pockets are larger than the ones on the upper chest.

The rear of the jacket has a horizontal seam present near the upper back. Two vertical seams start below the horizontal upper back seam moving down the bottom of the jacket. 

One pocket is present on each arm of the jacket, each covered by large flapped closures. Above the left arm pocket flap, up to 2 black fabric rank bars may be present.

Cuffs on the sleeves are about mid-distance to the elbow. The material folds back on itself to form the cuff. 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

The jacket may have optional holes near the waist of the jacket to allow tunic hooks to be used to hold up the belt. These optional holes must be covered by the belt.

If left arm rank bars are present, the black fabric should be similar to duvetyn type of fabric and will  have 3 equidistant horizontal stitch lines through each rank bar.

The front jacket flap will have rectangular stitch marks with a stitched X inside where velcro is attached to keep the flap closed. 

 

I had to educate myself on the differences of Olive Green, Dark Olive Green, and Olive Drab...

I found this online and I agree... Olive Drab is not the correct color we are looking for... it is too light. Olive Green / Dark Olive Green has my vote.

[Hoda[CMD-DCA]]

To be honest, I don't know we'd need to go too specific beyond "olive green" for the color. It's the same challenge we ran into w the IATs, knowing that there's always going to be many variations like it's been pointed out so far. I think as long as it's consistent (hat, jacket, trousers), we should be good.