Imperial Super Commando - Gar Saxon (Rebels - Animated) CRL Discussion

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

This will be the main listing and we'll tackle each part piece by piece (green is done, yellow is WIP, and red is not finalized):

• Helmet
• Flight Suit
• Chest Armor and Shoulder Pauldrons
• Shoulder Straps
• Abdominal Armor
• Jet Pack
• Gauntlets
• Gloves
• Hand Plates
• Belt
• Codpiece
• Thigh Armor
• Knee Armor and Shin Armor
• Boots
• Imperial Super Commando Blaster Carbine

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Description: Imperial Super Commando - Gar Saxon
Prefix: TX
Detachment: Spec Ops Detachment
Context: Star Wars Rebels

CHARACTER DESCRIPTION HERE

Special Notes:

• The armor parts are a [color description here], or as specified in each part description, and made from one of these (or similar) types of materials:
  • Fiberglass
  • ABS (Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene)
  • HIPS (High Impact Polystyrene)
  • PLA, ABS, PETG (3D Printing)
  • Polyurethane Rubber
• 3D Printed parts are permitted but all print lines and other artifacts must be removed.
• Blasters are not required for legion membership per our weapons policy.
• Where this CRL refers to a "detail indent", these details may present as either a recessed detail sculpted into the parts and then painted black, or can simply be painted onto a flat surface in black to create the same visual effect.

Helmet

• Imperial Mandalorian Super Commando style helmet, matching visual references from Star Wars Rebel animated series.
• Helmet should be painted and weathered to match references. Weathering/chipping of the red paint should match the light grey paint used elsewhere on the helmet.
• Helmet dome and face plate to be painted red as per references.
• Rear plate, raised rear panel detailing, the upper cheek plates, left ear plate and teeth must be painted light grey as per references.
• Lower cheek plates, raised rear panel, must be painted white (or a lighter shade of grey), as per references. Additional detailing on rear plate must be painted white.
• Ear caps and antennae may be painted light grey or a weathered white.
• All recessed panel lines are black or dark grey.
• There is an inverted white outlined triangle in the center of the forehead. This should be painted.  A weathered decal may be acceptable if achieving the look of having been painted.
• Both visor pieces are black, and obscure the wearer's face. The lower visor tapers in slightly to its narrowest point at the bottom.
• Left ear cap is oval, with a raised circular detail at the top, and a slightly tapered antenna with a circular profile.
• Right ear cap is angled at the top, with a narrower half oval at the base. There is an angled recessed panel line in the bottom right corner of the cap. The cap has a raised circular detail at the top, and two antennae. The rear antenna matches that on the left side, while the front antenna is significantly taller.
• Twin recessed panel lines (1 & 2) run around the upper visor, angle up over the ear pieces, and join together in horizontal lines across the back of the helmet. A third panel line (3) runs parallel and just above the upper of these two lines (2), joined to this same upper panel line at both ends, and running horizontally across the central portion of the rear of the helmet. The distance between 2 and 3 is approximately half the distance between lines 1 and 2 at the rear of the helmet.
• Additional panel lines vertically bisect each ear plate, and run around their edges.
• Rear bottom lip of the helmet has a raised, curved rim, running between the rear edges of each ear plate.
• Back plate has a raised rectangular panel with details to match references. These are long vertical oblongs on both sides, a circle in the lower center, and a double striped rectangle within another rectangle in the upper center. Details are outlined by recessed panel lines.
• The back plate is light grey, but has white detailing painted on either side of the raised rectangular panel.
• There are six teeth, three on each side of the lower visor, with the recesses painted black or dark grey.

Flight Suit

• Must be a two-piece garment, and must be properly fitted and shaped to the wearer.  If going with British military style pullover, material would commonly be acrylic.
• Must not have any visible pockets, pouches or zippers.
• The upper body part of the flight suit is maroon-colored, in a heavily ribbed style similar to British military pullovers. The neck area of the flight suit goes halfway up the neck of the wearer to conceal skin when the helmet is worn.
• On each shoulder of the flight suit there is a white Imperial Cog emblem on a black background.
  • The cog is 3” (76.2mm) or 3.5” (88.9mm) diameter and 1” (25.4mm) from the shoulder seam.
  • The cog may be embroidered or vinyl.
• The lower body part of the flight suit is white or light grey.  It should appear slightly darker than the white armor.  The lower part may be a separate trouser garment, or part of a one piece flight suit.  If a one piece jump suit, the upper body jumper should be worn over the garment so as to obscure any view of the flight suit underneath.
• The lower body part of the flight suit has the following seams:
  • On the outside of each leg there is a double-lapped seam which runs the entire length of the suit showing from the top of the shins up under the belt.
  • On the front just above the top of the knee armor which wraps around to the back of the flight suit and appears on the back.
  • On the back from the knee seam there is a seam that runs up the back of each thigh and then curves to the outside of the back under the belt. There is a horizontal seam that runs across the butt connecting both of these seams running up the back of each thigh.
  • On the back there is central double-lapped seam which runs from under the belt to the crotch of the wearer.

Chest Armor and Shoulder Pauldrons

• Armor is segmented with an Upper Chest Armor overlapping the Lower Chest Armor. These may be permanently fixed together, or fitted separately so long as they as attached firmly together when worn.
• The Upper Chest Armor also overlaps the Shoulder Pauldrons, which likewise can be permanently fixed, or able to be attached securely when worn.
• Armor is painted white and red to match reference images, and to match the white and red paint used on the helmet and other hard armor pieces.
• The front of the Upper Chest Armor has a semi-circular notch cut into the center of the lower front edge.
• The red painted inverted triangle at the front covers the entirety of the shoulders and the Shoulder Pauldrons.  The lower sides run from the front edge of each Shoulder Pauldron to meet at the semi-circular notch at the bottom of the Upper Chest Armor.
• A circular white detail indent with black outline is present halfway along the lower left (as worn) side of the front triangle.
• A linear detail indent borders the lower edge of the upper chest plate.
• The red painted inverted triangle at the rear likewise covers the entirety of the shoulders and the Shoulder Pauldrons.  However the lower sides differ from the front as they run from the lower edge of the Pauldrons down to the bottom center of the Lower Chest Plate, not the Upper Chest Plate.  Note that much of this will be hidden by the Jetpack.
• The Lower Chest Armor has symmetrical, twin semi-circular notches cut into the lower front edge.  The notches line up with the details featured in the Abdominal Armor.
• The lower edge of the Lower Chest Armor curves down to the sides from a arched center point at the front center.  The rear edge therefore sits much lower than the front, and covers almost the entirety of the Abdominal Armor underneath.
• A linear detail indent borders the lower edge of the lower chest plate.
• The two layers of the Chest Armor may be joined in a clamshell front and back design, so long as the connection point is relatively seamless.

Shoulder Straps

• White painted hard armor "straps" sit on both shoulders connecting the front and back halves of the Upper Chest Armor.
• The material and white paint of the straps should match those of the Chest Armor.

Abdominal Armor

• Made from the same hard material as the rest of the armor, and painted white to match all other relevant armor.
• May be constructed in a clamshell front and back design, so long as the connection point is relatively seamless.
• Is worn so that it is overlapped by the Lower Chest Armor above it.  The Lower Chest Armor curves down at the sides so that almost completely overlaps the Abdominal Armor at the rear.
• Two symmetrical detail indents are present at the front, to match reference pictures.
  • The outer edges of each design must be aligned with the cut outs at the bottom edge of the Lower Chest Armor.
  • The inner details are rectangular, with a semi-circular top edge that sits just below the semi-circular cut outs on the Lower Chest Plate.
  • The inner details are split into four segments, divided to match reference images.

Jetpack

• The same basic design as the Sabine Wren / Imperial Super Commando animated jetpack, but matching visual references for paint and markings.
• Central thruster is painted a dark gunmetal.
• Side thrusters are painted red and white to match other armor parts, with designs to match visual references.
• Red areas show medium to heavy weathering to match visual references, white in color to match other armor parts.
• There is a curved bridge over the central thruster that is yellow/gold in color with 3 white designs to match visual references.
  • The height of the bridge piece is approximately 1/5 the length of the central thruster, and the top of the bridge piece is located approximately this same distance from the top of the thruster.

Forearm Armor

• Armor is painted red to match the other armor parts.
• Moderate to heavy weathering in white is present on both forearms, with a horizontal scratch particularly visible on the left forearm.
• Each forearm has two raised rectangular compad buttons located just above the wrist.
  • The button closest to the wrist is red.
  • The upper button is orange.
• Armor is seamless on the outer edge.
  • Due to the shape of the armor, a butted seam is acceptable on the inside if required.
• Elbow plate is integrated into the forearm.
• Left forearm has a spiraling white band painted above the wrist.  This starts behind the red button, follows the contours of the armor around the back, and terminates just above and to the side of the orange button.
• Right forearm has an angled white band painted between the forearm plate and the integrated elbow plate, matching reference images.  This band continues to the rear of the forearm plate, flush with the top edge.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable)

• The rear lower portion of each forearm tapers slightly inwards towards the wrist, starting approximately at the same level as the gap between the two compad buttons.

Gloves

• Gloves are made from a textured fabric, closely matching the maroon of the upper flight suit.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Gloves should be made from the same material as the upper flight suit.

Hand Plates

• Hand plates should be red in color, matching other armor parts.
• Hand plates should extend up the wrist and the gauntlets.
• Hand plates may be constructed from a flexible material to facilitate movement.
• A white triangular design should be painted on both hand plates, matching visual references.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Hand plates shall run underneath the gauntlets.

Belt

• Belt is of the same material and color as other white armor parts.
• Comprised of approximately 16 vertically chained rectangles.
• Two of these rectangles meet with an interlocking design at the front center.
• A white pouch sits on the belt at each hips, matching visual references.
  • The belt may of the same material as the belt, or a white leather-like material.

Codpiece

• Codpiece is of the same material and color as other white armor parts.
• Codpiece attaches under the belt.
• There is a 3 sided detail imprint on the front of the codpiece.

Thigh Armor

• The thigh armor is of the same material and color as other white armor parts.
• The center of each piece is rectangular in shape, with an inset rectangular detail indent.
• There are angled "wings" curving from both sides of the armor, each reaching the center front and center back of each thigh.
  • These "wings" are offset from center, sitting closer to the top than the bottom.
• The thigh armor must be attached with an "invisible" method.  There should be no visible strapping.

Knee and Shin Armor

• The knee and shin armor is painted to match red armor pieces, with white weathering consistent with visual references.
• The armor may be constructed from flexible material to allow a greater range of movement.
• The knee plate may be permanently fixed to the shin armor, or hinged to allow greater movement.
• The upper curve of the knee plate should sit just below the seam of the undersuit's thigh panels.
• The knee armor may be constructed of a flexible material to allow a greater range of movement.
• The armor runs from the top of each calf, and overlaps the sides of each boot.  The toes, bridge and heel of each boot remains uncovered, consistent with visual references.
• There is a semi-circular notch in the top center of each boots.  The knee armor is aligned with this notch.

Boots

• Boots are red, as close as possible a match to the red armor.
• There should be no decorative stitching.
• There should be little to no heel on the boots.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Boots shall have a tan colored sole.

Imperial Super Commando Blaster Carbine

• Unique blaster carbine accurate to screen references.
• The receiver and scope are painted in three tones of grey, matching visual references.
• Dark grey / black telescoping stock with an end plate and circular recessed detailing (may also be painted) on either side.  May be functional.
• Dark grey barrel protrudes from the end of the receiver, with a light grey cuboid shape protruding underneath.
• Symmetrical detail indents (may be painted) on each side of the receiver:
  • 3 rectangular shapes
  • 2 circular shapes
• Symmetrical detail indents (may be painted) on the dark grey / black grip.
• Rifle scope scaled correctly to the blaster.
• Dark grey dual front and rear sights on either side of the scope, with a dark grey circular greeblie sitting just behind the front sights.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Telescoping stock shall be functional.

[beren88]

i see the helmet is yellow.  does that mean the info was started before? or because we are working on it right now for the build i am starting?

from what i can tell, 2 vendors have made the helmet, do3d, which isnt very accurate and skylu released a set.  Have they been viewed before? i dont think the do3d one is very accurate, as thats not what do3d cares about when they pump out the models.

skylu i havent looked at yet. so if you know, ill defer to your judgement and i can find that one.

Aleternatively, if the skylu is ok, but not perfect, i can always design a new helmet and then the detachment can pour over the model as i build it to ensure its perfectly accurate. im open to that option. that way many eyes will make a model perfect

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

Sorry yes, the yellow just meant we'd start with the helmet. I had time to create the thread, but not to put some draft text for the helmet up yet! I'll hopefully get a chance to do that tomorrow, but in the meantime feel free to continue in your WIP thread!

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

Starting point for the helmet:

 

• Imperial Mandalorian Super Commando Style helmet, matching visual references from Star Wars Rebel animated series.

• Helmet should be painted and weathered to match references. Weathering of the red paint should match the light grey paint used elsewhere on the helmet.

• Helmet dome and face plate to be painted red as per references.

• Rear plate embossed and recessed detail, upper cheek plates, left ear plate and teeth must be painted light grey as per references.

• Lower cheek plates, lower rear plate, ear caps and antennae must be painted white (or a lighter shade of grey), as per references.

• All recessed panel lines are black or dark grey.

• There is an inverted white outlined triangle in the centre of the forehead. This may be a decal, or painted.

• Both visor pieces are black, and obscure the wearer's face. The lower visor is curved at the top, and tapers in slightly to its narrowest point at the bottom.

• Left ear cap is oval, with a raised circular detail at the top, and a slightly tapered antenna with a circular profile.

• Right ear cap is angled at the top, with a narrower half oval at the base. It has a raised circular detail at the top, and two antennae. The rear antenna matches that on the left side, while the front antenna is significantly taller.

• Twin recessed panel lines (1 & 2) run around the upper visor, angle up over the ear pieces, and join in horizontal lines across the back of the helmet. A third panel line (3) runs parallel and just above the upper of these two lines (2), joined to this same upper panel line at both ends, and running horizontally across the central 1/3 of the rear of the helmet. The distance between 2 and 3 is approximately half the distance between lines 1 and 2 at the rear of the helmet.

• Additional panel lines vertically bisect each ear cap.

• Rear bottom lip of the helmet has a raised, curved rim, running between the rear edges of each ear plate.

• Back plate has a raised rectangular panel with embossed details to match references. These are long vertical oblongs on both sides, a circle in the lower centre, and a double striped rectangle within another rectangle in the upper centre.

• The back plate has grey recesses around all four edges of the raised panel, with additional angled recesses to either side.

• There are six teeth, three on each side of the lower visor, with the recesses painted black.

[beren88]

1 hour ago, tipperaryred said:

im currently working on creating the 3d models to match these same photos.  can we discuss the trianle on his forhead?  in some photos, i feel like it is indented, and others i think its painted on.

hwo should i model the helmet? with or without the indent?

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

1 minute ago, beren88 said:

im currently working on creating the 3d models to match these same photos.  can we discuss the trianle on his forhead?  in some photos, i feel like it is indented, and others i think its painted on.

hwo should i model the helmet? with or without the indent?

My instinct is definitely without moulded detail.  As far as I can tell, the helmet is exactly the same model used by the grunts.  Yet Saxon has the outlined painted white, while the grunts have the interior painted red (decals could also work fine).  So if you wanted to sculpt that detail on, you would need a different sculpt for each helmet.  I say leave it smooth and go with paint/decals.

[beren88]

Just now, tipperaryred said:

My instinct is definitely without moulded detail.  As far as I can tell, the helmet is exactly the same model used by the grunts.  Yet Saxon has the outlined painted white, while the grunts have the interior painted red (decals could also work fine).  So if you wanted to sculpt that detail on, you would need a different sculpt for each helmet.  I say leave it smooth and go with paint/decals.

ok, i liek that better.  Then people can just paint as they see fit.

the grunts looks the same to me when i look at it, only paint seems different

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

Would you agree the greys markings with the yellow arrows are recessed?  And that the grey markings with blue arrows are raised/embossed?

[beren88]

1 minute ago, tipperaryred said:

Would you agree the greys markings with the yellow arrows are recessed?  And that the grey markings with blue arrows are raised/embossed?

that top yellow throws off what i was going to say originally, but when i think about that top yellow and follow the line, yeah, i would say that its recessed. the blue i dont get the sense of raised, i get the vibe of it same height as around it, but the lines are cut around the pieces inside. kind of like the lines inside din djarins mohalk

 

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

3 minutes ago, beren88 said:

that top yellow throws off what i was going to say originally, but when i think about that top yellow and follow the line, yeah, i would say that its recessed. the blue i dont get the sense of raised, i get the vibe of it same height as around it, but the lines are cut around the pieces inside. kind of like the lines inside din djarins mohalk

 

Thanks, I know what you mean.  The lines around the the "blue" grey areas is what is confusing me.  I'm not sure if it's a drawing style that is supposed to make the interior details look raised, whether it is just supposed to be a painted black line, or whether it is a recessed panel line like you suggest.  My instinct is you are correct:

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

The most important thing is to keep it consistent.  So anything that appears with the similar dark lining, we treat as a recessed panel line.  Would you be okay with that?

[beren88]

4 minutes ago, tipperaryred said:

Thanks, I know what you mean.  The lines around the the "blue" grey areas is what is confusing me.  I'm not sure if it's a drawing style that is supposed to make the interior details look raised, whether it is just supposed to be a painted black line, or whether it is a recessed panel line like you suggest.  My instinct is you are correct:

in this pic, if you look on the bottom front portion of the ear cap, it has a similar line. i feel liek its just a design aesthetic, to give shape  and depth in 2d animation. not raised, just lines in the design

2 minutes ago, tipperaryred said:

The most important thing is to keep it consistent.  So anything that appears with the similar dark lining, we treat as a recessed panel line.  Would you be okay with that?

yep, totally ok with that. we are inline on same thoughts

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

To simplify matters, maybe we should go with MMCC description and treat back plate as grey with raised white panels, instead of white with grey recesses.  I guess this will be simpler to sculpt too?

The biggest remaining question here is the white areas marked by green arrows.  Is this simply paint?  Or are the white areas raised slightly above the grey (but obviously not as high as the raised white panel in the centre)?

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

This quick and basic sketch probably explains what I mean better!  Is the white detail either side of the large raised panel just painted on (right image), or is it raised up slightly (left image)?

[beren88]

44 minutes ago, tipperaryred said:

To simplify matters, maybe we should go with MMCC description and treat back plate as grey with raised white panels, instead of white with grey recesses.  I guess this will be simpler to sculpt too?

The biggest remaining question here is the white areas marked by green arrows.  Is this simply paint?  Or are the white areas raised slightly above the grey (but obviously not as high as the raised white panel in the centre)?

yeah, i agree, i thought it was white on the back with just grey or weathering in the recesses, but you migth be right its grey not weathering.

i wuld say they are raised, but like a mm or 2 tops

 

[beren88]

1 hour ago, tipperaryred said:

This quick and basic sketch probably explains what I mean better!  Is the white detail either side of the large raised panel just painted on (right image), or is it raised up slightly (left image)?

i feel its a slight raise to it, but minimal, we talking .5mm to 2 tops. i feel like 1mm is best

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

49 minutes ago, beren88 said:

i feel its a slight raise to it, but minimal, we talking .5mm to 2 tops. i feel like 1mm is best

Perfect.  If we say decals or a decent coat of paint on top then, would you feel that's enough?

[beren88]

Just now, tipperaryred said:

Perfect.  If we say decals or a decent coat of paint on top then, would you feel that's enough?

i would say the raised parts should be painted. decals makes stuff look cheap fast i feel.  I also feel like it wouldnt be decals. They are still mandalorians, they take pride in there painting of armour

[MisterxM]

Its hard to say if that triangle is painted or not. Most of the models I've seen it's indented, but it's looks more like painted. We must also determine the details of this triangle like dimensions etc. 

[beren88]

56 minutes ago, MisterxM said:

Its hard to say if that triangle is painted or not. Most of the models I've seen it's indented, but it's looks more like painted. We must also determine the details of this triangle like dimensions etc. 

yeah, skylu and do3d have the indent.  but i personally dont think they are correct.  The flaking in the triangle makes me think paint.

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

Yes, I would agree that it looks painted in the references. There are one or two side on screenshots which show pretty conclusively that there is no change in elevation I think:

 

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

8 hours ago, MisterxM said:

Its hard to say if that triangle is painted or not. Most of the models I've seen it's indented, but it's looks more like painted. We must also determine the details of this triangle like dimensions etc. 

For the size of the triangle, we might need to test on a helmet to make sure? Simply cut out some paper triangles of various sizes and see what range looks correct?

[beren88]

7 hours ago, tipperaryred said:

Yes, I would agree that it looks painted in the references. There are one or two side on screenshots which show pretty conclusively that there is no change in elevation I think:

 

perfect, i agree it is painted..  This photo very much affirms that.  I will continue modeling. as long as things keep going as they are this week with nothing stopping, i should have first version of the helmet modeled up. doing a may the 4th give away of the new imperial commando blaster, so trying to bang that out first.

 

[beren88]

7 hours ago, tipperaryred said:

For the size of the triangle, we might need to test on a helmet to make sure? Simply cut out some paper triangles of various sizes and see what range looks correct?

i might also see if i can make an svg file of the triangle, and then can just cut it on my cricut, to act as a paint guide as well, so the triangle goes on perfectly