TeaJay

For the box pocket discussion, are you wanting to specify so that people don't have a different shape to the bottom of the pocket? For example: Making sure people have "type A" or "Box Pleat" without the pleating (from diagram) rather than someone accidently placing "type B" style pocket on their tunic? Also making sure they do not have a rounded style pocket, like: Or are you referring to the flap being fully rectangular rather than someone trying to use this somewhat angled look? Here's Andor: Or maybe I'm missing a more specific point. So I'll defer back to you for clarification...

@Blackwatch -- What are your thoughts on having the "blouse and boots only" variant being a separate costume from the armored version? To me it seems like a separate costume similar to TIE Reserve and TIE Pilot. So perhaps Imperial Army Aldhani Soldier (unarmored) and Imperial Army Aldhani Soldier (armored). I would imagine the armored version would include the softcap and helmeted variations. Not sure if that's the plan or if the detachment is planning to make it all one in the same. The reason I mention this is -- things like the pocket flap having double row stitching on the shoulders and upper portion of the tunic will not matter as much with the armored variant as it is going to be covered up by the chest and shoulder bells and bicep armor. I can see it being a L1 requirement for the blouse and boots version and perhaps a L2 requirement for the armored version... or perhaps to keep it simple and make it an L1 across the board. I'm all for strict detail at the L1 option if people are in agreement. Just talking through it as I type... thoughts?

I'm good with the text in your recent post for the chest armor. Should be ready to head to backplate...

@Blackwatch -- For the line "On the top left side of the raised area is a raised oblong detail that protrudes outwards." -- are you referring to this? It looks like you have text that covers this from the line above the one I mentioned... which is "Left of the recessed area is a raised square that extends from the center to the curved side of the armor. A white or silver rectangle is present on this raised square." --- I'm just currently confused about what the "On the top left side of the raised area is a raised oblong detail that protrudes outwards." is referring to... I like how the chest coloration is written to allow for a slight range. I also think it is important that we make this L2 line item optional, which it is... based on how it is written with the word "may" --- Buckles may have silver paint chipping showing gunmetal underneath the silver. I would say if we are all in agreement with the color range of the overall chest armor, we can also update the helmet text from "The helmet is to be painted in matte black a very dark grey to match the armor. Greenish undertones in certain lighting conditions is acceptable. An acceptable range of colors include RLM 70 to Sherwin Williams SW6994 Greenblack " The only item I'm needing elaboration on is the line of text in my opening statement. I'm not sure what it is referring to, which means either it needs a slightly improved description or I'm dense... hahah. Help me out on this one...

For the Tunic and Pants, the overall look seems on target. The material will need to be a denim/jean material with visual weave seen on typical denim as seen from a photo taken by one of the background actors: It's hard to tell in your photos and I'm not sure how strict we should enforce specific pocket seams... but be sure the flaps on your pocket have two sets of seams around them as seen here: Not sure if that should be a level 1 vs level 2 approval to have the full boxed in seams... up to detachment crew. I do think some troopers have the horizontal leg seams, but not all. I remember you showing yours with them... which in my book based on what we've seen this should be allowed. Based on what we know about the gloves the upper hand has no adornments, it is smooth on top and from the information we have from @fb501we know that they are these dent brand specifically if you are wanting full on-screen accuracy -- https://us.dentsgloves.com/products/daniel-mens-unlined-leather-gloves -- but I'm digressing from the main focus of the tunic and pants... Overall it's looking promising... It may be worth starting a build thread. I'm planning on doing the same when my armor and soft parts arrive.

@pm07What device you are viewing the images or the show on does have an impact. If you're watching on an OLED vs LED vs LCD... all the various types of monitors/TV plus their individual color contrast settings will have an impact. Most of my screenshots are ripped straight from my computer, but I end up looking at them on my OLED laptop and LED TV to compare differences... the OLED always shows as darker... This is a great point to make when finalizing a color decision. It's one of the reasons why I haven't been strongly decisive on any particular color in addition to post-production filters added for the show and lighting of scenes... that's why I'm so back and forth on the question.... are the ferrix and aldhani armors the same color just lit differently because of the scene and set...

For my eyeballs... it looks good -- It does look like a different shade than the Ferrix troopers the more I look at it... Can we find a matte enamel version that is in a spray can? ...that will likely be the golden goose. Not sure if want to limit to Montana Gold; here's the list of their colors: https://www.montana-cans.com/en/spray-cans/montana-spray-paint/gold-400ml-artist-paint/montana-gold-400ml-colors I feel like their closet color is G7070 - "STEALTH", but it appears more like the Tamiya TS4... I think what you found with Vallejo RLM70 is darker... Montana's White line has a color called 7070- "B-52" -- https://www.montana-cans.com/en/spray-cans/montana-spray-paint/white-400ml-graffiti-paint/montana-white-400ml But it feels a little too light... Do you feel we need to make a decision on if the Ferrix armor and the Aldhani armor is the same color or different? Here's a BlackGreen RAL6012 -- https://www.myperfectcolor.com/paint/75257-ral-6012-black-green-paint -- I think this one looks too green. Here's a Granite Grey RAL7026 -- https://www.myperfectcolor.com/paint/75296-ral-7026-granite-grey-paint -- Too light? Valspar 95-34C - Blackwatch Green -- https://www.myperfectcolor.com/paint/74564-valspar-95-34c-blackwatch-green -- This one is okay... but still not my favorite. Sherwin Williams GreenBlack SW6994 - https://www.myperfectcolor.com/paint/26911-sherwin-williams-sw6994-greenblack --- This feels close to your post. my favorite of what I could find.. thoughts?

I won't have time tonight to get more screen grabs. Family visiting for Thanksgiving. Will have time tomorrow evening.

I would assume that they are black cast resin that was painted or maybe they shot all the Ferrix scenes first and then repainting that armor for the Aldhani scenes. It seems like the intension is for them to be silver / gunmetal gray and parts of the spray paint may be flaking off. Here it is in a lower light scene. ---- @Blackwatch -- I like the options of light gray / silver that you added to the latest revision write-up. I agree... it seems like the "hero" characters have a bit of a different shade to their buckles compared to background soldiers. So providing silver or gunmetal gray as options should probably be the way to go. For the overall coloration of the armor.... Is the armor color on Aldhani actually the same matte black as on Ferrix? On page two of this thread folks were leaning towards, colorations similar to German Gray... we had these examples: Originally I thought that the coloration of the overall Aldhani armor was a matte black, but when starting to look at these colors above, I started to question it... But could the Aldhani and the Ferrix armor be the same color and lighting just playing tricks?... I'm not sold on them being the exact same color yet... but maybe they are... Quick comparison of back (I know we are focused on the chest, but just doing this purely on color comparison)... Ferrix: Aldhani: Are the greens of the surrounding environment giving the armor on Aldhani a slightly different perceived color than that found on Ferrix even though they may be the exact same color? Ferrix Front: Aldhani Front: --- I don't know... thoughts? I can dig up more comparison shots tomorrow...

Let's kick off with some images and discussion on the greeblie and small paint details. For the silver shoulder buckles, they appear to be all silver and resting directly on the chestplate's upper shoulder area and glued on similar to shore, tank, transport, mud - troopers, etc... One requested change from @Blackwatch's initial write up would be to remove "with black recesses" for the "Buckles are silver with black recesses." I know that some vendor's casted resin buckles may have a flat portion as a result of the cast and some may say it aids in adhering it to the chest plate, but that flat bottom portion should be removed. I hope I'm not adding confusion, but here in this photo you can see that the buckle itself is all silver and the dark spot below the buckle is just the armor underneath. I do see @Blackwatch's point to make sure that anything recessed should be dark and people should not take the full casted buckle and just spray paint it and stick it on and call it a day... that lower flat part should be dremeled out to make it look like a proper buckle... Now...wait... @Blackwatch is on to something actually... I can see that the upper recess may not be fully dremel'able. so perhaps the upper recessed location needs blackened. That being said... maybe we should specifically state, "Buckles attach to upper chest plate. Buckles are silver with a black recess on upper narrow section of buckle and the larger recess shall expose the chest armor." I'm not in love with how it is written but interested in thoughts... Moving on to the next focus, colors of the greeblies and small details on the armor... lighting is a tricky thing... In the above photo, to me, it looks like the shoulder buckles, the raised rectangle on the right side (wearer's left), center recessed area's greeblie on the right (wearer's left), all look silver to me. The recessed oblong oval is definitely red. More about the red in a bit... But silver for everything right? I mean why would the costume creation staff go out of their way to use more than one similar color? I mean maybe... check out what lighting does here... From this side should that raised left rectangle almost looks white compared to the buckle and the front (center) greeblie. The lighting does show that the buckle is more silver here than the previous shot.... but then... This shot it looks like they are the same again... that silver, or maybe a gunmetal gray on the rectangle... looking at the hex values for this photo specifically they are just slight shades away from being the exact same color. So I'm at a bit of a loss here... I want to say all the "grayish / silver " spots are just silver... but I'm all for other's opinions on this one... Making everything silver rather than a gunmetal gray on the armor but silver on the buckles... makes sense.... but so does the opposite... I can see that when they fabricated these costumes they had someone spray painting silver on a bunch of shoulder buckles and maybe others hand painting gunmetal gray.... In this shot it almost looks like the front greeble is white that matches the shoulder bell, and the buckle silver matches the raised side rectangle... but there's no way... it's got to be just odd lighting... Throughout the episode with the lighting changes, "night time" filters they add in post-production as the story heads into dusk and night time... raises questions.. I think the best lighting we have is early on in the episode... Bottom line is everything silver? (sans the red) or is it mix of silver shoulder buckles and gunmetal gray on the chestplate?... leaving it up to detachment staff on this one... @Blackwatch what are you and the crew thinking? I like the idea of everything being all silver, but we just don't have enough evidence to say firmly... ---- For the red recessed oblong oval... are we thinking a dark red (Humbrol 20) or just red (Humbrol 19)... I'm leaning towards Humbrol 19... thoughts on the red too? --- For the overall armor color, are we wanting to dive into that too? I know previously we were debating on (page 2) flat/matte black vs German gray vs.... others...

In the photo you are referencing it does look like seams are present on that specific soldier. In close ups of Nemik's pants, there doesn't appear to be seams across the front of the pants: I didn't see any on Skeen either: Perhaps it should be a L2 requirement? We can definitely discuss further on this one when it is time to complete the trousers/pants.

I know we aren't on the trousers/pants yet, but I haven't seen any discernible stitching on the legs of the actors' trousers/pants. Did you? I noticed them on your tailor's prototype. ---- For the shoulder pockets height, it needs some felixiblity based on the person's build. People with broad shoulders will have an appearance of a higher shoulder pocket vs someone who has more slouching shoulders which will look lower. I think how @Blackwatchhas it written should work, but GMLs, etc. need to consider a little leeway based on shoulder type of the person wearing it. This will more critical for the non-armored variant of the costume.

I like the green text and I like the new yellow text as a replacement. Just add a comma after the word used... right? "If used, the hooks will..."

Great point of information request, Shane. It appears that the pocket seam rests on the same seam as the end of the tunic as seen on Nemik at 7:40 of episode 6: and 10:23 where you can see the crew as escorts for the Aldhani people. If we fear that people won't make their pockets reach the bottom of the tunic, it may be worth adding.

Great point. I'm good with tunic if you and others are at this point with this last clarification. ?

I did mean hooks, but it does read a bit awkwardly with double descriptor. I guess my overall point in this mini-side discussion is that if you have holes in your tunic, you should probably use hooks, but we shouldn't require hooks even if your tunic has holes for them... because the holes should always be hidden by the belt. If you feel strongly that if you have holes on your tunic, you should have hooks, I'm okay with that too as long as other are in agreement. I personally bought hooks for mine even if I have to modify my ImperialBoots soft parts to support them.

I'm all for keeping reference that the tunic holes are present on the tunic and hooks may be used. I just don't want to force people to use tunic hooks if the holes on the tunic are present; if your tunic has them and you want to use them go for it. Now that I think about it... I can see the perspective of how you're writing things @Blackwatch. The hooks being part of the tunic itself in this line-item's write-up? I was for whatever reason thinking as if the tunic hooks would be listed in the optional accessories section. If we want to keep it in the tunic section, we should note that: If optional tunic hooks are used on the tunic, a total of two (one on each hip) black tunic hooks are present. Thoughts?

There are two common ways to use these hook holes on the tunic... wearing suspenders designed to attach to these hooks under your tunic or the tunic has extra fabric on the inside around the waist to attach the upper portion of the hooks... the lower portion of the hooks go through to the exterior holes to the outside of the tunic to hold the belt in place. Here's an example of the tunic suspenders that use tunic hooks: https://www.epicmilitaria.com/tunic-belt-hook-support-straps.html --- I'm not sure who all will want to create their tunic/jacket to support tunic hooks but if they do, we should have something in writing (like we do) to allow for them since they are seen on screen. My previous post noting that we have no proof that all tunics used onscreen may or may not have had tunic hook holes on the jacket... some may have had them but didn't have hooks and the holes were hidden by the leather belt. Since we lack that info, I would suggest removing the text that I noted above in my previous post... if everyone is okay with that. I think the Tunic/jacket is a done deal and we are ready for the next item.

Everything in the write up looks good to me with only one confusing line that I'd like to get additional thoughts on before we wrap up the jacket/tunic. "If the holes are present tunic hooks must be used to keep the belt in place. " I feel that we don't have enough evidence to state that if the holes are present on the tunic/jacket that it is required for tunic hooks to be used. We do know that some actors did not have tunic hooks on their costumes, but since the belt always covers up where the holes would be, I'm not comfortable with this particular statement. It's possible that all the tunics/jackets may have had the holes for tunic hooks but not enough hooks to give out to everyone... Thoughts?

You make a good point with this statement. It is most definitely an optional scenario for the jacket/tunic... as not all soldiers have the tunic hooks on their belt line. Since the component is truly optional, I agree that this should be stated in level 1 with a strong emphasis on the holes and hooks being optional. @Blackwatch what are your thoughts?

I had to educate myself on the differences of Olive Green, Dark Olive Green, and Olive Drab... I found this online and I agree... Olive Drab is not the correct color we are looking for... it is too light. Olive Green / Dark Olive Green has my vote.

I like your latest L2 text description. I could see the headphones being listed as an optional accessory, but ideally the exact type need to be identified for the text description. Optional stand-alone accessories like weapons and the headphones, should likely be saved towards the end. Optional accessories directly impacting approval should be noted if it is associated with a component such as the belt having a Blaster pistol holster. We can lean on @Blackwatch since he is leading organization of the CRL. The Ferrix black variant should be a separate CRL that, like you mentioned, can utilize many of the text descriptions here as a base and can be modified to fit the Ferrix Solider. I'm sure there may be some subtleties to the Ferrix costume that will need to be discovered and discussed on a separate thread.

I've been scratching my head a bit on this one... so I asked my wife and she swears its this style of heavy weight brushed cotton called Duvetyne. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duvetyne https://www.prestigelinens.com/duvetyne-fabric/18545-duvetyne-fabric-fabric-by-the-yard-black.html https://www.fabric.com/buy/0751689/9-oz-brushed-cotton-duvetyne-black "Duvetyne, also known as Commando Cloth, is a flame resistant, brushed matte, woven fabric. Works great for window treatments. It is commonly used for masking in the theater, film and motion picture industry. It’s also used to control light spill in film and photography studios." If it's commonly used in the film industry, perhaps they had excess that they cut up and sewed onto the uniforms to create rank bars? No clue, but she seemed confident.

Agreed. I'd prefer for us to stick to that Army Green / Olive Green color and avoid the more tanned-green uniforms that seem to be much less common throughout episode 5 and 6. We should specifically state that the hat, tunic/jacket, and trousers/pants should all be of similar color from the same dye lot / dye batch / dyed together to have a uniform appearance. Another example of slight coloration difference from episode 5: --- Regarding the black fabric rank bars... After digging through episode 6 some more the best time to see them up close are at runtime 28:56 - 29:03. There are moments where the rank bars are more crisp in the shot, but it isn't amazing since its a darker scene. From staring at that scene looped probably a dozen times, I don't think it is black elastic with stitching, because elastic usually has much more texture (knit vs woven). It's definitely not woven elastic and I have my doubts its knit either... But!!! Episode 5 -- timestamp 21:10 It looks like a simple cotton cloth or maybe felt that is folded on the upper and lower (and maybe the sides -- edges are a bit frilly in sections). It looks about 1 inch wide and roughly the length of the shoulder pocket. I'd imagine there is stitching all around the four edges and three horizontal lines stitched through them. Here's placement of the single black fabric rank bar (better lighting in Episode 5) -- All black fabric rank bars appear to have those 3 equidistant horizontal stitch lines through them. So I'm not sure if you'd want to change it to a level 1 requirement or keep the 3 stitch lines at L2 and just having the black cotton fabric rank bar present is satisfactory... will leave it up to your call.

Great question. Let me do some more studying of the scenes for this one. I suggest that we have in the CRL write-up encouragement of dyeing the hat, tunic, and pants all within the same dye batch to allow for moderate to high color consistency across their specific uniform. I think it should be allowed to see some slight color deviation from trooper to trooper from the range we've seen on-screen with the slightly more coffee-tan green of Taramyn's uniform to the more army green seen with the wet soldiers walking. There will always be that one person in the legion that will argue for different coloration on a single uniform strictly from the screenshot of the solder here: FISD has the same situation with one of the ANH TKs that were missing the blue tube stripes on their helmet in one scene... if someone wants to be that unique... I mean it is screen accurate... but likely should be discouraged. I'll do some more thinking and post later today.