TeaJay

Tunic A long-sleeved, olive green gray jacket that falls between upper and just to mid-thigh, with no visible zippers or buttons. Fabric has a denim "pilled" textured material with a visible weave. Has a high mandarin style collar with an open space in front. a left over right closure that rises from the front of the tunic. Has two panels on either side of the front, extending to the bottom of the jacket. Has a stitched "cuff" on the sleeve that extends to around the middle of the forearm. Appearance of the cuff may be created by top stitching. If side pockets are present, they are built into the jacket with no covering flaps present. No outer stitched pockets are acceptable unless they are fully covered by the armor. Shall be moderately to heavily weathered. The front closure overlaps left over right and rises from the hem at the bottom of the tunic to the top of the collar. Four pockets are present on the jacket front, covered by large flapped closures. Lower pockets are larger than the ones on the upper chest. The rear of the jacket has a horizontal seam present near the upper back. Two vertical seams start below the horizontal upper back seam moving down the bottom of the jacket. One pocket is present on each arm of the jacket, each covered by large flapped closures. Above the left arm pocket flap, up to 2 black fabric rank bars may be present. Cuffs on the sleeves are about mid-distance to the elbow. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): The jacket may have optional holes near the waist of the jacket to allow tunic hooks to be used to hold up the belt. These optional holes must be covered by the belt. If left arm rank bars are present, the black fabric shall have 3 equidistant horizontal stitch lines through each rank bar. ----- Here's the photo proof of the 3 stitch lines for each black fabric rank bar: I feel like the three stitch lines per black fabric rank bar should be a L2 feature, but ok with it if folks think it should be a L1 requirement. ---- I can see us removing the L2 line item about the holes in the Jacket for the tunic hooks since they are not present on all soldiers. I'm also interested in the others thoughts on flexibility of coloration of the uniform and how it should be written in text for the CRL... I do think there should be some slight variations to the greenish tan... it still has that army green / olive color, but some could have a hint of light tan added into the green... thoughts?

Here's some follow up on coloration and how the uniform colors change from soldier to soldier and even from a single soldier's tunic/jacket to trousers. Taramyn's uniform appears to be slightly more tan/coffee colored compared to Andor's: It's also noticeable here with him and Nemik: You also have situations where the soldiers are wet while filming on location leading to their uniforms looking a bit more darker than some earlier shots: But this soldier takes the cake with his olive green top and greenish/tan bottoms: This shows that there is some wiggle-room on the the exact coloration from soldier to soldier, likely how the costumes were probably bulk dyed in different batches or exposed to different weather (raining versus not) possibly leading to the colors changing from scene to scene, I'm sure lighting also plays a major effect... when they are inside the vault some of the uniforms have a much more tan color likely due to the interior lighting. Vincent at ImperialBoots has been testing with a mix powder dye of army green / coffee and it looks extremely close to the on-screen look of the soft goods. I think since there is a slight variation in color of the soft parts of the uniform, there should be a color pallet range. Olive / Army Green / Coffee -- thoughts?

I'll kick things off with some images and talk through them a bit, then can help nail down the CRL text descriptions. The big thing to note on this one, as @Blackwatch pointed out, it is not the Mudtrooper tunic/jacket... it also isn't the ICAT driver tunic/jacket (seen in Mando S2). One of the best full front shots that we have of the tunic/jacket is this: The material has been confirmed to be a jean/denim material that has been dyed (color and its variation from trooper to trooper to be discussed later). Total of four pockets on the front of the tunic/jacket; all pockets have flaps covering the upper portion of each pocket. Each sleeve has a pocket on the upper arm; also with flaps covering the upper portion of the arm pockets. The tunic/jacket's front pockets appear to be two different sizes, the lower pockets are a bit larger than the ones found on the chest. The front opening area of the tunic/jacket has four rectangular velcro spots with an X through them keeping the tunic/jacket closed. There may be a zipper under this, but this is at least hiding the zipper. You can see from the sketches from @bubuc44 for the tailor mockup matching the design a bit more clearly. This also matches the sketches from what Vincent over at ImperialBoots has done. Sketch from bubuc44 tailor: Sketch from Vincent at ImperialBoots: It's important to note that the cuffs are almost or about mid-distance to the elbow (as also noted in the above sketches): While we are looking at this picture take a look at this: There appears to be black tunic belt hooks (one on each side) for only a handful of the soldiers. They appear on most "hero" characters, but these tunic belt hooks are not on all actors. The reason I point this out, means that the tunic/jacket will likely have holes near the waist of the jacket to allow these hooks to come through. I think this shouldn't necessarily need to be explicitly written in the CRL simply because not all troopers have it, but a discussion point for us to talk through.... The rear of the tunic/jacket has a horizontal shoulder seam with two seams on each side below that horizontal shoulder seam going vertically down the back: Also noted in the rear tunic/jacket sketch from ImperialBoots: Here are some additional initial photos the the early mockups from ImperialBoots (note that this is the undyed version of the jacket): The mandarin style collar seems similar to other costumes within the legion: We've previously discussed that the tunic can have black cloth rank bars on the left shoulder. None, 1, or 2. Here is an example of two rank bars and one, other examples can be found in one of my previous posts above: When it boils down to measurements of each pocket and seam distances for the opening/closing flap of the tunic/jacket, etc. I would have to defer to others. I would imagine this will slightly vary depending on the body type of the wearer (i.e. height, weight, body shape). I think that's my brain dump for now, I will chime in when I can recharge a bit.

Agreed on this and ready to move on when others are.

I reviewed the episode again and could not find any decent close-ups of soldiers in the same style uniform (armored or non-armored) outside of one soldier tucked away watching all the madness... same one that tries to take down Andor... here's two images, he has 6 stitch lines and no rank appears on his left shoulder. The most common stitch count being 6, but we've seen variance across the board. Worth checking if you're feeling squirrelly, maybe there's something I overlooked. My thoughts are stitch count is unrelated to rank.

For the hat stitching, I do not think its tied to rank. I think it's just hats being made in bulk by the costuming department and someone got a little wild with stitching. Rank appears to be is denoted on the left shoulder, soft jacket either no black stripe, a single black stripe, or two black stripes... and on the armor the left shoulder bell having two thin black lines with thicker white line. None: One Black Stripe: Two Black Stripes: Shoulder Bell two thin black lines with thick center white line:

Well it looks a bit wild west, just like the original hat CRL write-up that mentions 5,6, or 7 concentric stitches. These photos are quick grabs from my phone on our large TV so that it was easier for me to count. First up, the softcap soldier telling the helmeted soldiers to form up... this hat appears to only have 5 stitch lines: Next up is Andor, his hat has a count of 6 stitched lines: Skeen also has a count of 6: Nemik also with a count of 6: And last and the most stitchiest of them all, Taramyn with a total of 8 stitch lines: ----- Seeing this much variance, I think we should revert to the original description with an added "8" for level 1 to say: "Front bill extends 3" (76mm) down, decorated with 5, 6, 7, or 8 concentric stitches. and perhaps have a L2 statement that specifically states 6?... to be honest, it's likely unnecessary since the goal of a higher level is more screen accuracy, simply since Taramyn's hat have so many... but the other three do have 6 stitches each... the "Form up" soldier has 5... I would allow for a range on this one... thoughts?

I like this as written as well. The only thoughts I had are tied to the amount of stitching found on the bill of the hat. We know from a close up of one of the on-set bills that there are 6 stitch lines. I'm curious if we should stick with that exact number or allow for flexibility from the previosly written hat CRL details at least at level 1. It's worth going through the episode to see if we can find any other troopers with a different stitch count... assuming there any good close ups that can confirm a different count other than 6. I will take a look tonight and provide screenshots if I find anything useful. Other than this potential item, I think it's a solid writeup.

@Blackwatch Can we sneak in the soft officer cap next before moving on to the tunic? There are so many troopers with the soft cap that it's worth jumping into if you all are okay with that next. @Felix has a great start on the bottom of his post here: I do have some suggestions on it and interested in opinions, but will hold off on that tiny rabbit hole until we agree that we are ready for it. It honestly shouldn't require much discussion, we can save coloration and textile/material type of the soft parts for the tunic and trousers. The hat does appear to be made out of the same material as the rest of the soft goods.

I like it! Others' opinions?

Agreed with shade 3 as the darkness level, I wouldn't go any darker than that.

The close up of the trooper with lens material from the screenshots above occur at 10:06 - 10:08 in the episode. Smoke Gray; Dark Green? Doesn't look overly dark compared to many other trooper lens types, but the cloudy weather lighting and extremely limited screen time at a close distance makes this one a challenge. @fb501had a helmet on in the filming of this episode, hopeful for his input.

I noticed this last night, now that we are on to the goggles, what do you all think of this? Specifically for the lens material... does it seem like this specific trooper has no clear/smokey lens material on his helmet: Almost like it just has the silver frame attached to a cut out of a backing material that matches the paint of the rest of the armor/helmet. VS... this trooper: Both of these troopers were in the same scene with assumably the same lighting, so we should have seen some sort of reflection effect of the clear/smokey lens on the top trooper. Makes me wonder if the lens material should be optional at any tier. Thoughts? Outside of this one oddity, I think @Blackwatch's write up for goggles looks good. I will defer to the muddies out there that are more familiar with the goggle setup.

Just to clarify, it sounds like you're giving the member the flexibility to not affixing everything to the helmet with this L1 statement: "The lower end of the telemetry unit sits out from the helmet to allow the goggle elastic to pass underneath. The goggle strap is in not mounted to it permanently. " with the L2 option denoting that they are permanently mounted... I think that is a fair option as long as the telemetry unit is on top of the goggle elastic in some fashion. I'm digging it...

Helmet should be good at this point in my opinion until we can nail down an overall color for the armor. The more I look at that German Gray the more I feel like my eyes are opening to it not being flat black. For the black stripe around the white stripe on shoulder, I also thought it was a decal until I saw this: in the ridge of the armor details you can see it smoothly and cleanly recess in. Sure you could do this with a decal, but if you think about all other costumes with this style shoulder denotation on shoretroopers, tanktrooper, etc. It's always painted on. For the soft cap, Felix's write up is a great start. From folks like Vincent over at ImperialBoots, who live and breathe fabrics/textiles and colors, he's been testing with mixing dyes that are "Army Green" and "Coffee" to get the coloration extremely close.

I really hope that @fb501can share thoughts on the armor color. I still feel like the armor is a flat black. Gloss colors always stand out more and look more vibrant. The shoulder straps are darker black no question, maybe even more than the weapons they are carrying. Armor is not as dark as the blasters. I wonder if the the shoulder straps were just raw casted in black material without any additional paint and that is why it appears to have a darker color. This picture shows that there is a difference in shade or sheen at a minimum: Top and bottom lines (green text) that sandwich the thicker white line looks like a gloss black which appears slightly darker in the right lighting than the base armor color. I still don't see the shade of green on the main armor and I promise I'm not red/green colorblind or anything. Again, really hoping someone who participated in this episode can shed some light With random hex coloration tools online (with mouse hovered over various sections of the armor values will change), there's this: https://www.ginifab.com/feeds/pms/color_name_in_image.php (probably not worth its salt and likely a distraction from just getting an opinion from someone like @fb501) But again, lighting within the scene plays a factor, etc. Points made by a few of us.

I'd remove the first "chin" in the sentence so that it reads. "The helmet has a gray webbing chin strap and may feature a chin cup. Chin cup color matches the helmet."

Sorry about getting stuck on the photo rather than the concept you were stating. What specific ideas do you have? Are you thinking just adding another adjective to the wording or something more? I don't know if we want to get into fine grain coloration selection similar to how TK's specify French Blue and Gunship Gray. Each detachment tends to have their own opinion on things like that, it will be best for the DCAs, DL, XO to chime in on that one. Good question though.

That looks like Vincent's proof of concept over at ImperialBoots. That feels very much like a gloss black; at least from what I can tell lighting wise. Heck that might just be raw, unpainted, black ABS... I don't think Vincent is trying to focus on the armor coloration in this photo, he just wanted to demonstrate the positioning of the seams, pockets, for the soft parts he is currently developing. Also keep in mind that the soft parts seen here is also proof of concept, he's been working on locating an ideal denim to match the on-screen fabric. Also keep in mind that this is likely studio lighting versus outdoor lighting seen on-screen. I'm thinking a Matte Black automotive style paint will likely get the color and texture we are looking for: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Rust-Oleum-Matte-Black-Spray-Paint-Actual-Net-Contents-12-oz/50449048 or https://www.menards.com/main/paint/spray-paint/all-purpose-spray-paint/rust-oleum-reg-automotive-custom-lacuer-spray-paint-11-oz/332289/p-2654092911137848-c-8050.htm

Since all troopers who have helmets on-screen have the gray strap, but not all have the chin cup, I'd propose the wording for the following to be adjusted to be a bit more verbose. "The helmet may feature a black chin cup with grey webbing strap." to "The helmet must have grey webbing strap, but may also include the black chin cup." -- Something along those lines to ensure that the gray webbing strap is included at a minimum. -- I'm still of strong opinion that the telemetry greeblie must be on top of the goggle strap, whether that means it is denoted in the goggle section or the helmet section... we should really try to make sure we capture that in writing somewhere at a L1 tier. Additional thoughts?

There's no harm in keeping a separate line item for the goggles on the CRL. Keeping the way they are affixed generic is likely the best course of action unless we have concrete information. Since @fb501 was an on-set extra with a helmet, it would be great to get his take on it. He may also have more details on how the goggles/strapping was attached to the helmet.

Agreed with this statement. In my opinion, think the telemetry unit needs to be in line with/on the strap, there are multiple troopers with this particular greeblie located on the goggle strap. I'm wondering if @fb501 remembers from his helmet? Fixing the goggles to the helmet permanently may possibly go hand and hand with how this greeblie attaches to the strap. Based on its placement, I just don't see much flexibility to bring the goggles down onto the wearer's eyes/face and no troopers are seen with the goggles down. I think attaching the telemetry unit to the strapping is a must, but that along with free floating strapping (not attaching/gluing the strap to the helmet) may look odd if someone puts the goggles on their face (not sure how I feel about it people wearing the goggles since it isn't done in the episode but that is indeed what goggles are for ) because then the telemetry greeblie will likely sit lower than the seam line of where the helmet dome meets the flared skirt of the helmet. If one can pull off the look as seen on-screen without gluing down the strap and goggles to the helmet, that should be satisfactory for level 1 with the idea of gluing it all down being a L2 requirement. At a minimum the telemetry unit needs attached to the strapping (IMO)... In addition to having the telemetry unit attached to the strapping, I have some concerns about not attaching the whole strap to the helmet leading to mid-trooping costume appearance "slippage" unless your goggle straps are firm and tight to the helmet... if that makes any sense... I think you know what I mean The telemetry unit is on the goggle strap of even the soldier that has to take a leak, I think he may be the same soldier in the up close shot below... The only scene that you can see the telemetry unit up close in the light is at runtime 9:59 - 10:02 and the camera is panning left to right so there is a bit of a motion blur for those few seconds. Here's a another snag of it (https://imgur.com/a/3X0tSBI)

Good to keep a method the madness/excitement. Sounds good! I think the current helmet write-up from @Blackwatch is almost there. Here's some stills for the helmet specifically. https://imgur.com/a/KICMWj0 The right side of the helmet does have the telemetry greeblie, just without the flashlight. One thing to note from @fb501's earlier post, was that the goggle's were cast onto the helmet; not saying that needs to be the case for the CRL, but in the photos above, the telemetry greeblie is sitting on top of the strap for the goggles... which I'd imagine normally wouldn't be that easy if you had removable goggles. On the Mudtrooper CRL you can see that the goggle strap is below the telemetry greeblie. Outside of that, I think we're nearing the finish line on the helmet. Thoughts?

Great find!! There are some armored soldiers that appear to not have them, so this may be one of those optional components. @fb501-- did your outfit have them? I'm curious how these are installed. Are they truly functional or there for adornment. Anyone have tutorial on their installation on the tunic?

Can you find those tunic hooks on the armored and non armored (non officer) outfits? I haven't been able to. It is definitely obvious on Commandant Jayhold Beehaz's uniform, but didn't see it on the Army crew.