Star Wars Battlefront (2004): Phase 0 Dark Trooper CRL Discussion

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

I'd say to keep it optional and if we do base it on the Shadow Stormtrooper text.

[Blue Hatter]

Optional sounds good to me.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

sounds good. I mean, if its not seen, its not seen, unless a guy has a tall neck.  

[RAIDER[COTG]]

4 hours ago, Blue Hatter said:

Optional sounds good to me.

just to verify then...the skin of the neck wont be visible if not worn correct?

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

i think it will depend on the individual. If they wear a long balaclava, no. 

 

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Neck Seal (Optional)

• Black with horizontal ribs, fitted to the wearer, and extending from the base of the neck to conceal the entire neck.

This was taken from the Shadow Stormtrooper.

[Mr.Nova]

Hello lovely people! I'm glad to see Dark Trooper is getting so much interest, now!

I've read through all of the comments here, but as I don't know much about regulations, I'll just spectate!

Blackwatch did mention that you might, or might not, be also looking at the new model for references, but I didn't see anything regarding it.

What are the thoughts on it?

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

2 hours ago, Mr.Nova said:

Hello lovely people! I'm glad to see Dark Trooper is getting so much interest, now!

I've read through all of the comments here, but as I don't know much about regulations, I'll just spectate!

Blackwatch did mention that you might, or might not, be also looking at the new model for references, but I didn't see anything regarding it.

What are the thoughts on it?

What is this one from? Did they remake Battlefront with new textures? Interesting! We are sourcing from the original Battlefront game.

[Mr.Nova]

14 minutes ago, IcyTrooper said:

What is this one from? Did they remake Battlefront with new textures? Interesting! We are sourcing from the original Battlefront game.

Uh, yeah xD Lol

Not necessarily a remake, but there was a new Battlefront and Battlefront 2 made by EA the past few years. This is a Dark Trooper from the new Battlefront 2. I don't have the game purchased yet, so I'm not able to rip the files for a 3D Model, but I plan to in the future. I have several images that I can share of this version in the reference pics thread, if interested. I really like the level of detail in this guy compared to the oldschool Battlefront model.

Also, I'm reaching out to the original model creator to see if I can get the model files from him directly, and use them in a 3D viewer for reference.

Originally, I was sourcing all my material from the oldschool Battlefront, like you and several others. It's only recently that I've had time to look back into it, and when I did, I managed to find out that this guy had been released, so I was really excited.

I also, found a guy in New Zealand who had apparently made a Dark Trooper suit, much like Blue Hatter's design, based off the oldschool Battlefront game. It looked great, but I will admit I am really digging this new model.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Got ya! I have both the EA Games versions of the Battlefront series on the PS4 and haven't specifically seen the Dark Trooper in it. I was wondering if it was on a remastered Steam edition of the old Battlefront. I think the picture that you have is from someone who did a mod to the vanilla Battlefront 2 game, and not one that was textured by EA/DICE/Lucasfilms/Disney. Historically, I know that unless it was a character that came with the game or added in an expansion by the developer costumes generally aren't permitted. @Raider is that what you have seen as well?

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Correct.  Unfortunately this is not an actual official game skin (I have both BF1 and 2 by EA as well).  It’s essentially fan art that someone imported into the game on their own. We have had a similar request for a “Ghost Trooper” (white Death Trooper), but since it is not an official skin it cannot be made into a CRL.  Probably not what you wanted to hear @Mr.Nova sorry.

Right now, the only version that can be pursued is the one under construction from the ol skool BF.  There was quite a nice model made by @kishdr that might be approve able.  Im not sure what his plans for that model were.  Or the Oota Goota (did I get it right?) kit if still in production.

[Blue Hatter]

On 8/2/2020 at 6:39 PM, Raider said:

just to verify then...the skin of the neck wont be visible if not worn correct?

If the person wears a balaclava their neck wont be seen. Or if their undersuit has a turtleneck or something. Perhaps it should just be noted that no skin should be visible?

For the record, I'll be wearing a balaclava and a neck seal.

10 hours ago, Mr.Nova said:

Hello lovely people! I'm glad to see Dark Trooper is getting so much interest, now!

I've read through all of the comments here, but as I don't know much about regulations, I'll just spectate!

Blackwatch did mention that you might, or might not, be also looking at the new model for references, but I didn't see anything regarding it.

What are the thoughts on it?

That's a fan-made mod, it's not official. Even though it is really neat, and I dig the knee armor (why does the "canon" P0 have bare knees?). I found a video of that same mod about a week ago.

 

[Mr.Nova]

10 hours ago, Raider said:

Correct.  Unfortunately this is not an actual official game skin (I have both BF1 and 2 by EA as well).  It’s essentially fan art that someone imported into the game on their own. We have had a similar request for a “Ghost Trooper” (white Death Trooper), but since it is not an official skin it cannot be made into a CRL.  Probably not what you wanted to hear @Mr.Nova sorry.

Right now, the only version that can be pursued is the one under construction from the ol skool BF.  There was quite a nice model made by @kishdr that might be approve able.  Im not sure what his plans for that model were.  Or the Oota Goota (did I get it right?) kit if still in production.

But the difference between the Ghost Trooper and this would be that a Dark Trooper is actually canon, correct?

Even thought it's a fan-made model, wouldn't that be akin to the same thing being done with kishdr?

From what I can see of the BF2 model, he's heavily faithful to the source material.

I mean, some liberties to design have to be made when you're creating the CRL for a DT, otherwise we'd all come out looking like polygons.

He does a great detail view here (similar video to Blue Hatter's) that I think would be very helpful when determining stuff for the CRL. Even if all of it isn't used, can't it still be a good reference?

8 hours ago, Blue Hatter said:

If the person wears a balaclava their neck wont be seen. Or if their undersuit has a turtleneck or something. Perhaps it should just be noted that no skin should be visible?

For the record, I'll be wearing a balaclava and a neck seal.

That's a fan-made mod, it's not official. Even though it is really neat, and I dig the knee armor (why does the "canon" P0 have bare knees?). I found a video of that same mod about a week ago.

Lol, I noticed that, too!

Honestly, I think the kneepads are the biggest change to the costume. From everything else I've seen of the model, so far, it seems really faithful to the oldschool BF DT.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

3 hours ago, Mr.Nova said:

But the difference between the Ghost Trooper and this would be that a Dark Trooper is actually canon, correct?

Even thought it's a fan-made model, wouldn't that be akin to the same thing being done with kishdr?

From what I can see of the BF2 model, he's heavily faithful to the source material.

I mean, some liberties to design have to be made when you're creating the CRL for a DT, otherwise we'd all come out looking like polygons.

He does a great detail view here (similar video to Blue Hatter's) that I think would be very helpful when determining stuff for the CRL. Even if all of it isn't used, can't it still be a good reference?

Lol, I noticed that, too!

Honestly, I think the kneepads are the biggest change to the costume. From everything else I've seen of the model, so far, it seems really faithful to the oldschool BF DT.

Fan art cannot be used as a reference.  What kishdr did is build his 3D model based on the details seen from the actual gameplay...and yes the graphics were a much lower quality and so liberties are taken most certainly (that's done with alot of older video game characters)...but kishdr's model as an example could never be the reference from which we write the text and requirements.  Only the original (official) art provides those details and we match them as best as possible to real-world costume applications.

To further the explanation...there are countless fan-made Stormtrooper renditions out there.  Many very true to the original source.  But if we were to write a CRL today, none of them would qualify as a "reference" because they aren't the original...just copies of that.

TL/DR: All references must come from official sources from which CRL text is based.  Fan art does not qualify as a reference no matter how close to the original source it may be.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

@Mr.Nova I would add though that you are correct in that this rendition is close.  If your intent was to build a 3D model off of it, I assume you could alter that model to match the correct details of the original and so it might make a suitable base.  You would just need to be certain that the final product meets those CRL requirements (i.e. remove the knee armor) and cross-check every little detail so that anything that was added that does not match the original reference is removed...and vice versa...any little detail missing is added  where it should be.

Edit: Adding this just to clarify...with any 3D model (or hand sculpted mold), there is a fine line between accuracy and interpretation.  Just a word of caution to be very careful about over-interpreting to what may "look better" in the process so that it doesn't cross over into something that cannot be approved.

[Mr.Nova]

3 minutes ago, Raider said:

@Mr.Nova I would add though that you are correct in that this rendition is close.  If your intent was to build a 3D model off of it, I assume you could alter that model to match the correct details of the original and so it might make a suitable base.  You would just need to be certain that the final product meets those CRL requirements (i.e. remove the knee armor) and cross-check every little detail so that anything that was added that does not match the original reference is removed...and vice versa...any little detail missing is added  where it should be.

Yay~ 

Now I'm not so sad, lol.

I really do love his model.

He does such great work on updating the old models into more detailed versions while staying true to the source material.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Just now, Mr.Nova said:

Yay~ 

Now I'm not so sad, lol.

I really do love his model.

He does such great work on updating the old models into more detailed versions while staying true to the source material.

Read my word of caution above tho in my edit.

[Mr.Nova]

3 minutes ago, Raider said:

Read my word of caution above tho in my edit.

Would you have an example, for reference? 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

4 minutes ago, Mr.Nova said:

Would you have an example, for reference? 

Off hand...not necessarily...the general rule is accuracy trumps look.  Again, there are times especially with video games where things magically float in place and something has to be done to make it work.  But in general, you want it be true to form.  My concern here specifically would be the helmet becoming more Stormtrooper-esque (smaller) than it should.  The model borders on that going for a more proportional aesthetic.

As a general example...this happens often...when new costumes are being created as a new movie comes out, makers often jump the gun and create armor molds that are ultimately found not to match and then when the CRL is written, they get upset when their mold doesnt meet the requirements.  I'm just giving you a heads up.  My recommendation would be to follow the CRL creation thread religiously to make sure you know exactly what needs to be adjusted.

[Mr.Nova]

2 minutes ago, Raider said:

Off hand...not necessarily...the general rule is accuracy trumps look.  Again, there are times especially with video games where things magically float in place and something has to be done to make it work.  But in general, you want it be true to form.  My concern here specifically would be the helmet becoming more Stormtrooper-esque (smaller) than it should.  The model borders on that going for a more proportional aesthetic.

As a general example...this happens often...when new costumes are being created as a new movie comes out, makers often jump the gun and create armor molds that are ultimately found not to match and then when the CRL is written, they get upset when their mold doesnt meet the requirements.  I'm just giving you a heads up.  My recommendation would be to follow the CRL creation thread religiously to make sure you know exactly what needs to be adjusted.

Oh, no doubt. I've read everything you guys have posted. I don't necessarily understand a lot of it, because I've never made a costume, but I'm definitely looking for something to be acceptable.

I won't be able to really dive into actual construction until I'm moved up to Jacksonville, but I'm definitely compiling everything along the way, so I can hit it full force once I'm ready

[RAIDER[COTG]]

10 hours ago, Blue Hatter said:

If the person wears a balaclava their neck wont be seen. Or if their undersuit has a turtleneck or something. Perhaps it should just be noted that no skin should be visible?

For the record, I'll be wearing a balaclava and a neck seal.

 

if there's a chance neck can be seen...let's just require the neck seal lol.  We had a similar loophole in the Del Meeko CRL where balaclava was optional but then necks were showing on applicants.  No bueno.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

6 minutes ago, Raider said:

if there's a chance neck can be seen...let's just require the neck seal lol.  We had a similar loophole in the Del Meeko CRL where balaclava was optional but then necks were showing on applicants.  No bueno.

I agree with that. 

[Blue Hatter]

15 hours ago, Raider said:

if there's a chance neck can be seen...let's just require the neck seal lol.  We had a similar loophole in the Del Meeko CRL where balaclava was optional but then necks were showing on applicants.  No bueno.

 

19 hours ago, Mr.Nova said:

But the difference between the Ghost Trooper and this would be that a Dark Trooper is actually canon, correct?

Even thought it's a fan-made model, wouldn't that be akin to the same thing being done with kishdr?

From what I can see of the BF2 model, he's heavily faithful to the source material.

I mean, some liberties to design have to be made when you're creating the CRL for a DT, otherwise we'd all come out looking like polygons.

He does a great detail view here (similar video to Blue Hatter's) that I think would be very helpful when determining stuff for the CRL. Even if all of it isn't used, can't it still be a good reference?

Lol, I noticed that, too!

Honestly, I think the kneepads are the biggest change to the costume. From everything else I've seen of the model, so far, it seems really faithful to the oldschool BF DT.

I do like the fan-made model, it's a pretty cool rendition of the Phase Zero, but it's actually quite a bit different from the canon version of it. Aside from the knee armor, the bolts are smaller, for one, the shoulder armor is up-side down and shouldn't have a center ridge, the helmet is a different design (the back is more rounded on the fan version and doesn't go as far out, and it doesn't have the "elf ears"), the fan version has a clone trooper belt instead of a stormtrooper belt with clone trooper ammo packs, the shoes don't have armor over the top of them, there's no vent on the top of the jump pack, there aren't any slats on the circular vent on the sides of the "wings" of the jump pack, the calf armor is missing the stripes that go down the front and back, the hand armor isn't the correct shape, there's no stripe on the top of the jump pack, and there are a few other smaller design differences.

It's a sweet model but it's significantly different from the Pandemic model.

 

 

15 hours ago, Raider said:

if there's a chance neck can be seen...let's just require the neck seal lol.  We had a similar loophole in the Del Meeko CRL where balaclava was optional but then necks were showing on applicants.  No bueno.

Sure, whatever works! Makes no nevermind to me. I prefer the look of the neck seal, anyway, makes it look more finished.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

I have added the finalized neck seal text into my post where the finalized text is going: 

 

Onto the Under Suit! Here is the standard text:
 

Under Suit

• Black non-textured material, either one-piece or two-piece construction with no visible zippers or logos.

Are we good with this?

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

I also updated the title to say Star Wars Battlefront (2004) so that we don't get the versions confused.