Death Trooper CRL - First draft

[marktoots[501st]]

Thanks for your reply and understanding Mark! Regarding the boots, you'll most likely have some people trying to gain height by using larger soled boots so maybe a little leeway on those would be good too.

 

 

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Height can be gained through internal shoe raises so I would not want the CRL to be diluted too the point where platform soles are acceptable

 

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[feliz[TX]]

Fair enough. It's not an issue for me fortunately, just a thought for those vertically challenged. I wasn't thinking of platform though, just a larger heel. Appreciate the hard work sir!

 

 

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[Griffin-X[501st]]

I cleared up the multiple posts. Tapatalk has a known bug that multi-posts if the thread has a lot of images in it. I dig the app, but hate that bug.

 

At any rate, once the command staff reviews the finished draft, we will evaluate what Level 1 (basic) and Level 2 (specialist) requirements make the most sense. The LMO will also have some opinions on it, so don't worry too much about it, yet.

 

Good stuff and glad to see you guys chat it out. It's a team effort all the way around.

[feliz[TX]]

Thanks for clearing those up sir! Much appreciated. And thanks for being open to feedback as well!!! It means a lot that you're open to hearing people's thoughts and ideas and also responsive to it. That's rad!

 

Happy New Year!

 

 

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[Atraxas[TX]]

Look forward to the CRL being finalised.. and can't wait to start this build... DT just.. yes!!!

[Khaos[501st]]

I have changed the designation at the top if the CRL. It is now what it should be

I had forgotten that the ST had set the precident.

 

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Glad I could at least spark the debate. Really glad to see the support for it! I was a fan of the DT prefix as well.

 

 

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[Darth Emphatic[CMD-DWM]]

Submission of DT CRL for CS Review.

 

I intend on submitting the CRL for formal Command Staff review on Thursday 5th January, so if anyone has any comments/feedback can you please provide them on this thread by midnight PST on Tuesday 3rd January 2017 so I have time to consider and incorporate them as appropriate. Should there be no feedback provided by that point then I will assume that it is acceptable to the members.

 

Thanks

 

Looking forward to it, Mark.

[dday[501st]]

Hi, since this is the last moment to post notes here are mine:

 

Balaclava: Is this really necessary as a requirement? As long as whats underneath isn't visible should be require that there be one? It's similar to requiring a specific strapping. As long as it's not visible and fills the function it's ok. I personally will wear one but I wonder about making it a requirement.

 

Neck Seal: The CRL states that is connected to the chest/shoulder apron. I worry that if we are this specific on basic approval that we will be excluding alternative ways to achieve the same effect. There could be an apron, but the neck seal is not actually connected but goes under this apron. Same effect, different method.

 

Shorts: Same material as the gaskets. Why not another material that achieves the same effect? Comfort aside, there are other materials that would be much better placed here and achieve the same look.

 

I've run into similar issues with the Kylo Ren CRL. The SLD folks stated that they made the CRL in one way but that garrisons could pick if they followed it or not. There were exceptions for building the costume in different ways but they were implied. In my case specifically it was simulating the midcoat in the costume. My setup achieved the same visual effect as a midcoat without actually having one. My garrison would not accept it because there was no allowance in the CRL for simulation.

 

Some garrisons will follow the CRL but still make their own decisions, some won't follow it at all. Then there are garrisons like my garrison who follow the CRL to the absolute letter. If for instance I had a neck seal as a separate piece to the apron, my costume would not be accepted. The goal should be to make sure we're visually accurate but allow for alternatives in the basic level 1 approval. Level 2 and 3 you can be more specific about exact ways.

 

For instance Vader.. we know in the film he has a 3 piece under suit. However the CRL allows for a 1, 2 or 3 piece suit for basic approval. The same effect, different methods.

[jimmiroquai[501st]]

Would like to chime in as well. Could the gasket shorts be bumped up to a level 2? Those would be difficult and very expensive to make...and will not be comfortable.

[marktoots[501st]]

Hi, since this is the last moment to post notes here are mine:

 

Balaclava: Is this really necessary as a requirement? As long as whats underneath isn't visible should be require that there be one? It's similar to requiring a specific strapping. As long as it's not visible and fills the function it's ok. I personally will wear one but I wonder about making it a requirement.

 

Neck Seal: The CRL states that is connected to the chest/shoulder apron. I worry that if we are this specific on basic approval that we will be excluding alternative ways to achieve the same effect. There could be an apron, but the neck seal is not actually connected but goes under this apron. Same effect, different method.

 

Shorts: Same material as the gaskets. Why not another material that achieves the same effect? Comfort aside, there are other materials that would be much better placed here and achieve the same look.

 

I've run into similar issues with the Kylo Ren CRL. The SLD folks stated that they made the CRL in one way but that garrisons could pick if they followed it or not. There were exceptions for building the costume in different ways but they were implied. In my case specifically it was simulating the midcoat in the costume. My setup achieved the same visual effect as a midcoat without actually having one. My garrison would not accept it because there was no allowance in the CRL for simulation.

 

Some garrisons will follow the CRL but still make their own decisions, some won't follow it at all. Then there are garrisons like my garrison who follow the CRL to the absolute letter. If for instance I had a neck seal as a separate piece to the apron, my costume would not be accepted. The goal should be to make sure we're visually accurate but allow for alternatives in the basic level 1 approval. Level 2 and 3 you can be more specific about exact ways.

 

For instance Vader.. we know in the film he has a 3 piece under suit. However the CRL allows for a 1, 2 or 3 piece suit for basic approval. The same effect, different methods.

Hey Derrek.

In an attempt to address your concerns:

 

Rather than being unique to this CRL the balaclava description was taken from already cleared CRL's for stormtroopers, etc. so I just replicated it here.

 

With regard to the neckseal all the visual evidence we have indicates that it is stitched to the apron and personally I am not sure how you can achieve the same effect with a separate neckseal? Also Stormtrooper neckseal's come with some form of apron attached as a matter of course (may even be part of the CRL) so I don't believe it will be a problem.

 

I agree that the wording for the shorts material maybe a bit restrictive but the material used should IMHO achieve the same look. I am happy to modify the wording to accommodate this but I don't think that it should be diluted any further as the visual effect will be lost. Ultimately, though that is down to the CS to decide.

[TommyC1138[501st]]

Hey Derrek.

In an attempt to address your concerns:

 

Rather than being unique to this CRL the balaclava description was taken from already cleared CRL's for stormtroopers, etc. so I just replicated it here.

 

With regard to the neckseal all the visual evidence we have indicates that it is stitched to the apron and personally I am not sure how you can achieve the same effect with a separate neckseal? Also Stormtrooper neckseal's come with some form of apron attached as a matter of course (may even be part of the CRL) so I don't believe it will be a problem.

 

I agree that the wording for the shorts material maybe a bit restrictive but the material used should IMHO achieve the same look. I am happy to modify the wording to accommodate this but I don't think that it should be diluted any further as the visual effect will be lost. Ultimately, though that is down to the CS to decide.

 

I agree with Mark regarding the Neck seal, in all ref pics of this from screen used costumes the neck seal is attached to the apron and as he also stated this is the same on almost every neck seal I have seen or made or used for Star Wars costumes in including for my approved Kylo Ren. It has to be attached to an apron or you would see skin where it breaks or some other garment you might wear underneath and this would not be a true representation of the costume.

 

With regards to the shorts or ribbed area around the groin and butt area it is clearly shown in every screen shot and ref pic to be the same material that is used for the elbow and knee gaskets. However if you look closely at the SWCE screen used ref pics there is no gaskets that go directly through the gusset from the front to the back so it not uncomfortable to wear as the ribs are broken up to allow for movement.

 

The basic level in a CRL must represent a screen accurate account of the costume or what is the point of having one? You just can't simply dumb down the basic approval because its too hard.

 

Yes I agree that there should be level 2 and even level 3 for super screen accurate versions of the costume however these are usually for items or methods of construction that where used for the screen used costumes, such as the Jered Doc Martin boots which are no longer available but there are suitable alternatives that look very close or say the way a TK is strapped together some use just basic webbing and velco but the screen used suits used brackets and elastic.

 

Anyway that's my 2 cents worth.

 

Cheers Tom

[feliz[TX]]

I agree with Derrek about the neck seal and balaclava. In the end, the look is what matters, not how you achieve it. I for one am not planning a balaclava nor would I wear one. And from the only few times we've seen a Trooper remove their helmet in the movies, (Han&lukes stolen kits, clone troopers and most recently Fin) none of them had one. I feel they're not needed.

 

 

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[marktoots[501st]]

I want to understand whether the neckseal issue is truly down to it being attached to an apron or whether it is confused by the reference picture?

Pretty much all the neckseal's I have seen used have an apron on them (the photo below is from the TK crl). For the TK the apron is described as and extension to prevent the neck from being seen. However, in the case of the DT it becomes part of the detailing of the costume (as per the screen used costumes).

 

 

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[feliz[TX]]

I can see your point with the neck seal attachment Mark. But I don't think that's the argument and I agree that is how they come made anyway. For me, the issue is that some of us who already have neck seals from TK kits may want to be able to make them interchangeable with this kit, which makes sense when you think about.

 

 

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[marktoots[501st]]

I can see your point with the neck seal attachment Mark. But I don't think that's the argument and I agree that is how they come made anyway. For me, the issue is that some of us who already have neck seals from TK kits may want to be able to make them interchangeable with this kit, which makes sense when you think about.

 

Ah, gotcha Nick. I'm curious to understand how would you achieve the sewn together look of the neckseal/apron join?

[feliz[TX]]

I wouldn't. I'd use a Velcro attachment to make it usable for both kit. I'd leave the sewn together look for tier 2. Personally I'd only be looking for basic approval and leave the extreme detailing for those interested in that type of detail. Although I do plan on my kit looking accurate, I'm more in this for the fun and don't feel extreme details like that should be needed for basic approval. These are just my opinions of course, I still appreciate all you and the legion do!

 

 

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[marktoots[501st]]

Sorry. Last edit I made to add some more photos seems to have screwed the formatting. I'm out at the moment but will sort it when I get back.

 

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[marktoots[501st]]

Formatting corrected

 

Would like to chime in as well. Could the gasket shorts be bumped up to a level 2? Those would be difficult and very expensive to make...and will not be comfortable.

 

Jim. Ultimately it is up to the Detachment CS and the LMO as to whether the gasket shorts are at basic or level 2 clearance. However, I personally agree with Tom in that there is plenty of reference material indicating that the gasket material is used to cover the butt/groin area of the body (most likely as shorts) so moving these to level 2 dilutes the costume to much IMHO.

[marktoots[501st]]

I have updated the wording regarding the crutch strap linking the butt plate and cod piece. Tom provided reference pictures from SWCE and the promo photos showing that it is used on the screen costumes.

 

Thanks mate.

[Darth Emphatic[CMD-DWM]]

As it relates to the gaskets, consider the FO stormtrooper. The gaskets are required for a reason. It's of overall visual significance and while a pain, it's not the type of thing that typical gets moved to level 2.

[dday[501st]]

Hey Derrek. In an attempt to address your concerns: Rather than being unique to this CRL the balaclava description was taken from already cleared CRL's for stormtroopers, etc. so I just replicated it here. With regard to the neckseal all the visual evidence we have indicates that it is stitched to the apron and personally I am not sure how you can achieve the same effect with a separate neckseal? Also Stormtrooper neckseal's come with some form of apron attached as a matter of course (may even be part of the CRL) so I don't believe it will be a problem. I agree that the wording for the shorts material maybe a bit restrictive but the material used should IMHO achieve the same look. I am happy to modify the wording to accommodate this but I don't think that it should be diluted any further as the visual effect will be lost. Ultimately, though that is down to the CS to decide.

 

Ah yes, the photo was confusing the issue I think. The new photo you posted with the neck seal and the simple apron is what I consider standard. This bib goes under the upper body suit.

 

Like Feliz mentions, some may want to reuse a appropriate styles neck seal from other costumes, as they are much the same between all troopers of this age in the series. My only concern was making the neck seal a fixed part of the upper body shirt. Stitching can be added around the neck opening to make it look like the neck seal is connected but in fact it's it's own piece resting under the overshirt. I think this should achieve an acceptable look while not being overly restrictive.

 

 

 

As it relates to the gaskets, consider the FO stormtrooper. The gaskets are required for a reason. It's of overall visual significance and while a pain, it's not the type of thing that typical gets moved to level 2.

 

I think there is no question about the gaskets being there in the shorts, but rather being able to achieve the gasket look very similar to the elbows and knees but with a different, more comfortable material. Still with ribs and so on, just a softer more breathable material that won't leave us with swamp jock.

 

My intention is to not dumm things down, but still to make things a touch easier for people to join us. There are small things we can let slide for higher level 2 or 3 that won't change the overall look of the suit.

[Griffin-X[501st]]

I think there is no question about the gaskets being there in the shorts, but rather being able to achieve the gasket look very similar to the elbows and knees but with a different, more comfortable material. Still with ribs and so on, just a softer more breathable material that won't leave us with swamp jock.

 

My intention is to not dumm things down, but still to make things a touch easier for people to join us. There are small things we can let slide for higher level 2 or 3 that won't change the overall look of the suit.

 

Good feedback and discussion. We'll only have (2) levels - basic/general clearance and Level 2 (specialist). The trick is to balance what goes "where" and what "makes" the best sense to allow clearance to all who want to go for it. As you mention, we want to make it easy for folks to create the costume and join the party. It's not a simple costume so we need to be careful not to make it too hard to achieve.

[SANDMANxGB[TX]]

I'd like to chime in for the E-11D portion, the HK stock is upside down so the pictures may need to be taken again. Also, for the thermal detonators should we include red LED's in the openings of them (optional) for the level 2 or would that be too extreme? So far the CRL is looking great! You guys are awesome

[SANDMANxGB[TX]]

Last one I promise haha The DT helmets have a slot that runs along the lens under the brow, similar to the Shoretroopers. Don't know if that should be added or not, just something I've noticed in the celebration photos and on the Anovos buckets.

 

Here's a couple photos:

[marktoots[501st]]

I'd like to chime in for the E-11D portion, the HK stock is upside down so the pictures may need to be taken again. Also, for the thermal detonators should we include red LED's in the openings of them (optional) for the level 2 or would that be too extreme? So far the CRL is looking great! You guys are awesome

I'll have a chat with Tom. It certainly looks like it is the wrong way up when compared to the SWCE costumes but interestingly the photo in the visual guide also looks to have the stock upside down!

 

 

With regard to the grenades I think the red leds should be optional like the leds on the blaster and lid

 

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