Death Trooper CRL - First draft

[Darth Emphatic[CMD-DWM]]

 

I think there is no question about the gaskets being there in the shorts, but rather being able to achieve the gasket look very similar to the elbows and knees but with a different, more comfortable material. Still with ribs and so on, just a softer more breathable material that won't leave us with swamp jock.

 

My intention is to not dumm things down, but still to make things a touch easier for people to join us. There are small things we can let slide for higher level 2 or 3 that won't change the overall look of the suit.

 

I'd never require a specific material as long as it looked the part. That is key. If it looks the same and moves the same (important for soft parts), that is good.

[feliz[TX]]

Last one I promise haha The DT helmets have a slot that runs along the lens under the brow, similar to the Shoretroopers. Don't know if that should be added or not, just something I've noticed in the celebration photos and on the Anovos buckets.

 

Here's a couple photos:

I've seen this as well. I think there's going to be a lot of lids out there though that may not hit this mark. It's not the most noticeable detail so my vote would be that it is not required for basic approval.

 

 

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[feliz[TX]]

Last one I promise haha The DT helmets have a slot that runs along the lens under the brow, similar to the Shoretroopers. Don't know if that should be added or not, just something I've noticed in the celebration photos and on the Anovos buckets.

 

Here's a couple photos:

I've seen this as well. I think there's going to be a lot of lids out there though that may not hit this mark. It's not the most noticeable detail so my vote would be that it is not required for basic approval.

 

 

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[marktoots[501st]]

 

 

I've seen this as well. I think there's going to be a lot of lids out there though that may not hit this mark. It's not the most noticeable detail so my vote would be that it is not required for basic approval.

 

 

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I agree with you on that

 

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[Griffin-X[501st]]

As with all 501st costumes, blasters are not required for basic/general clearance and would be listed as "optional accessories". But, we need to nail down the correct blaster stock and look for Level 2 clearance - for sure.

 

[marktoots[501st]]

As with all 501st costumes, blasters are not required for basic/general clearance and would be listed as "optional accessories". But, we need to nail down the correct blaster stock and look for Level 2 clearance - for sure.

 

The stock is correct it just looks as though the shoulder butt is the wrong way up. Trying to confirm at the moment because there are a couple of different references that show it either way.

 

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[dday[501st]]

Good feedback and discussion. We'll only have (2) levels - basic/general clearance and Level 2 (specialist). The trick is to balance what goes "where" and what "makes" the best sense to allow clearance to all who want to go for it. As you mention, we want to make it easy for folks to create the costume and join the party. It's not a simple costume so we need to be careful not to make it too hard to achieve.

 

This is exactly what I'm hoping to hear. With such a detailed and intricate costume it's very easy to get sucked into the small details and we forget to sometimes take a step back and look at it like the public does. I'm not saying rubies, even the public can tee these are wrong.

 

But in a lot of cases pinning down mm measurements in the basic level is way beyond what needs to be done. The same goes with some minor details. Like the quote above (and below) about the hidden (nearly) undercut in the helmets. Making this a requirement would not make sense, because it doesn't change the overall look of the helmet one bit. It changes the microscope view only.

 

We want to be exclusive, but not so exclusive we're sitting alone at the table.

 

 

 

I'd like to chime in for the E-11D portion, the HK stock is upside down so the pictures may need to be taken again. Also, for the thermal detonators should we include red LED's in the openings of them (optional) for the level 2 or would that be too extreme? So far the CRL is looking great! You guys are awesome

 

I'd say nay on any LED's. In the theater cut of the film, no LED's were lit up at all.

 

Last one I promise haha The DT helmets have a slot that runs along the lens under the brow, similar to the Shoretroopers. Don't know if that should be added or not, just something I've noticed in the celebration photos and on the Anovos buckets.

 

Here's a couple photos:

 

nope, this is much to nitpicky. It doesn't change the overall look of the helmet to have it or not.

 

I'd never require a specific material as long as it looked the part. That is key. If it looks the same and moves the same (important for soft parts), that is good.

 

right on, this is good news

[DeadpoolTK11686[501st]]

In my opinion I feel it's better to submit a fully detailed CRL rather than a generic version. ðŸ‘ðŸ¼

 

In the end Legion Command will dictate what will be required for each level, plus it'll be up to the interpretation of that CRL by the local GML for approval. More information at this point is best in my humble opinion.

 

LEDs. I say make them Optional.

Marketing and promotional materials can also be used which support the use of LEDs.

 

MMs/inches (measurements) in level 1? I vote to leave them in.

There is plenty of other CRL Level 1s with MMs/measurements given. Since a majority of this detailed work has been researched already it would be best to submit this with the measurements and let them fall where they may.

 

There is also precedence for included measurements. A quick glance at some of the other more detailed and intricate costumes do show and support measurements in level 1 approval process. This may be the case here. (Vader/Boba/ heck even TK has measurements included for belts etc)

 

Otherwise this is some great discussion, keep up the great work everyone ðŸ‘ðŸ¼

 

 

 

 

 

[Spanky101]

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[marktoots[501st]]

I have a question about paint and let me apologize if it's been covered?

In reference to the paint colour for the armour, it reads "Painted in gloss black the recesses and asymmetric panels are finished in matte black/graphite/carbon to provide contrast." I honestly don't see any of the panels being painted a different shade of black? The helmet yes, but not entire panels. I understand that they used different ones on Vader, but I personally don't see any pics showing the asymmetric panels highlighted in different shades. Do we have picture evidence? Just curious, because I am not seeing it, to me the armour is straight gloss black, other than the recesses?

 

The following two reference photos were taken at SWCE and may help to clarify why the variation in paint was detailed.

 

You agree that asymmetric panels on the helmet have variations in order to provide definition. I read somewhere that this is done to provide depth to black thing in filming.

 

It maybe a trick of the light but if you look at the chest armour on this manaquin at SWCE you can see that the panel on the right side (as you look at it) is reflecting/absorbing the light differently to the breast or right hand panels. It is also different to the shoulder bells and biceps next to it.

This could be explained away as light reflection if it did not show up from a different angle but the second photo shows the same thing.

 

I have been trying to understand why this is the case, and through discussions with a number of different people it was concluded that this was down to subtle variations in paint colour or finish.

 

 

 

The photo below was not taken at SWCE and comes from "The Prop Den" fb page. I believe that it was the costume on display at a con in the US around the same time as SWCE. Again the same panel is reflecting/absorbing the light differently to those around it.

 

 

It seems to much if a coincidence that this effect is seen on multiple costumes in different lighting conditions and from different angles.

However I may have missed something that can explain it other than paint variations?

 

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[TommyC1138[501st]]

Since my costume debut for the R1 premier and the posting of my 4 build videos, I have received awesome feedback from you all on my costume and I greatly appreciate it.

 

However, by far the most overwhelming question that has come up is about the paint scheme and the dark grey colour I have painted on several areas of my armor. Now some of you have said they cannot see this other colour and that they are completely black and others have said my colour is too light and not dark enough. I would like to share with you all the ref pics that I have gathered that clearly show that there is another colour on the armor that matches or is very close to the colour that is on the screen used Helmets, Anovos Helmet and Disney Park costumes.

 

I would also like to explain several of the photos that you have seen of my costume. These have been done under lighting conditions that are very bright. This was to allow all the detail that is on this costume to be evident, most of these photos where used as my submission photos or to help with the CRL. I had to do this so my GML the LMO and the Spec Ops command staff and Mark who has been putting together the CRL could see this detail as black is a very hard colour to single out detail on. In contrast to this some of the photos that I have had taken under different condition hardly show the colour differences at all and almost show my costume as being completely black as in the film.

 

I have also chosen to weather my armor to match the SWCE photos of the screen used costumes, I just love the way they look. So, there is also weathering in the channels of a lot of the armour which again really is accentuated under the very bright condition that my photo's where taken under.

 

Anyway, whether you want to go as far as I have with the weathering or want to stay as shinny as you can that's up to you, but there is undeniable evidence that there was a contrasting grey colour used on these costumes and this is what has been included in the preliminary CRL.

 

I hope this answers a lot of your questions and gives you a greater understanding of how I came to this paint scheme.

 

Please see ref pictures below with the grey area circled in RED. These pics are made up of screen used costumes, Anovos Costumes, TV promo shots and Disney park costumes. They can't all be wrong?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers Tom

[Spanky101]

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[dday[501st]]

In my opinion I feel it's better to submit a fully detailed CRL rather than a generic version. í ½í±í ¼í¿¼ In the end Legion Command will dictate what will be required for each level, plus it'll be up to the interpretation of that CRL by the local GML for approval. More information at this point is best in my humble opinion. LEDs. I say make them Optional. Marketing and promotional materials can also be used which support the use of LEDs. MMs/inches (measurements) in level 1? I vote to leave them in. There is plenty of other CRL Level 1s with MMs/measurements given. Since a majority of this detailed work has been researched already it would be best to submit this with the measurements and let them fall where they may. There is also precedence for included measurements. A quick glance at some of the other more detailed and intricate costumes do show and support measurements in level 1 approval process. This may be the case here. (Vader/Boba/ heck even TK has measurements included for belts etc) Otherwise this is some great discussion, keep up the great work everyone í ½í±í ¼í¿¼

 

We also need to be careful (in my opinion) and not leave it to much to the powers that be.

 

The garrisons have the leeway to follow their own guidance. However some garrisons (German and some others) will follow the letter of the CRL, very tightly. If we don't explicitly state some variance is allowed in places it may block people with a perfectly decent costume from getting approved.

 

The MM measurements, I don't think they should be removed, but given a little more room on either side. Words like approximately and so on give the room needed. There will be a lot of variance in some measurements in order to keep the suit within scale for different bodies.

[dday[501st]]

Ok, I see what you mean Tom and don't get me wrong, I think the work you've done to help shape the crl's, your informative videos and answering many of us noobs questions, including myself is commendable. And I think your armour is awesome. So this is no way an attack or reflection on you. But what I see is not a solid colour like you have done on your costume, but the reflection of the paint flecks they add to give it that gun metal look under certain lighting conditions. Like they do on the top layer of cars, helmets and such to give the paint an added pop. If you go watch either of the unboxing videos, like this one

you can see that when he spins it around it goes from the gunmetal back to gloss black. It is not as distinct as yours. So I guess that would be my point. In the pictures you've shown right above this post, the one with the 2 DT's running in front in the car commercial, look at the DT on the right, where you've pointed out the 2 red circled highlighted panels. Look on his other side, you can easily say that the 3 on the left are also the same shade as the 2 you've circled? Again, I think it is the reflective paint flecks, as opposed to a completely different shade of paint, like you've done on your armour. Again, I think your armour is awesome and have no problem with you or anyone painting it or having it that colour. I just don't see it the way you see it. And in terms of the back inserts with the O and 2 II's there is far too much weathering to determine either way. The white washing that is added to the recesses and these areas makes them too hazy to make out the actual paint colour and only stand out due to the excessive weathering. Too me when I look at your armour, it looks like you've painted the certain panels charcoal grey and it is very noticeable, when I look at various pics of the DT, it is very subtle. Again, because I believe due to the paint flecks added in or on top of the paint colour. This is what made me ask the question, I thought I missed something or wasn't seeing what others had seen? Again this might be my point of view? I have not saw the armour in person. And I will freely admit I'm wrong if proven otherwise. But as much as I've saw in the pics and videos, i don't see it the way it's written up in the soon to be crl's, so I wanted to bring it up for clarification if nothing else. I am not trying to be a dick or play the devil's advocate, as I've said, the work you did to help get us to where we are is very helpful. So not my intention to stir the pot or the like. But that is how I see it. Whatever you guys decide on, I'm good with. And if I'm proven wrong, I'll be the first to apologize for bring it up. I just wanted to say my piece.

 

The colors are 100% there. There are some photos Tom posted above that show clearly the different colors. Here is one that can not be argued against.

 

 

In the big red circle, and the small red circle, the light is hitting these pieces almost at the exact same angle and intensity, yet they are clearly different shades. This is not a case of light hitting metal flakes at a different angle, this is a different color. Show it to any painter and he will say the same. This paint scheme was clearly done to make sure that the armor was fully visible in all lighting situations, and didn't "disappear" due to the black on black nature or it. Exactly like Vader.

[Spanky101]

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[feliz[TX]]

I agree wit Tom 100% on the color. And I've seen the prop den video which they refer to it as gunmetal which too me has always been a grey color. Many questioned this with the Vader costume as well but were incorrect. There is no question that it has a gunmetal grey color. Obviously there will be some different perceptions of this out there, which is understandable. People view colors differently sometimes.

 

 

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[marktoots[501st]]

This discussion is great and as as a result I propose to delay the submission of the CRL for CS review until Sunday to allow it to continue.

 

On the subject of the paint. While I suspect the costume makers would not have gone to this level of detail there are techniques out there which are widely used in car customization which create ghost images in the lacquer. In all but certain conditions the paint looks to be of a consistent finish.

 

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[Darth Emphatic[CMD-DWM]]

 

The MM measurements, I don't think they should be removed, but given a little more room on either side. Words like approximately and so on give the room needed. There will be a lot of variance in some measurements in order to keep the suit within scale for different bodies.

I agree. We definitely want the measurements in. At the same time, proportions matter. A 5 ft 90lb officer versus a 6'5' 250lb one will benefit from a little proportion adjustment on the ran bar. With things like webbing and such, that rule is still applicable.

[marktoots[501st]]

I agree. We definitely want the measurements in. At the same time, proportions matter. A 5 ft 90lb officer versus a 6'5' 250lb one will benefit from a little proportion adjustment on the ran bar. With things like webbing and such, that rule is still applicable.

In general terms I agree about proportioning the costume appropriately in general terms to suit the wearer .i.e. overall size of armour but this may become impractical if we go down to the width of webbing, etc especially for those who largely purchase rather than make their costumes.

Taking the webbing as an example, scaling the webbing on the chest rig means that the main rig itself needs to be appropriately sized which may mean that the magazines will not fit. Another where it would be difficult to size to suit the wearer is the belt coponents. Unless of course there is easy access to a 3d printer.

[Darth Emphatic[CMD-DWM]]

 

In general terms I agree about proportioning the costume appropriately in general terms to suit the wearer .i.e. overall size of armour but this may become impractical if we go down to the width of webbing, etc especially for those who largely purchase rather than make their costumes.

Taking the webbing as an example, scaling the webbing on the chest rig means that the main rig itself needs to be appropriately sized which may mean that the magazines will not fit. Another where it would be difficult to size to suit the wearer is the belt coponents. Unless of course there is easy access to a 3d printer.

 

I am not saying to require proportion adjustment, but that the aproximately language is there to account for this types of variations.

[marktoots[501st]]

 

I am not saying to require proportion adjustment, but that the aproximately language is there to account for this types of variations.

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

 

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[Spanky101]

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[dday[501st]]

They forgot on all suits, disney parks suits and all launchbay costume expos to take off plastic in all the same spots? Thats almost tinfoil hat conspiracy level stuff there

 

The color variations are consistent through many different suits in the the exact same location.

 

I'll give that maybe they used a vinyl sticker or something like to accomplish the different colors, but most likely it's paint as you can see some places where the paint is chipping.

 

There are so many photos where the different colors are right next to each other, at the same angle with the same lighting but they are clearly different colors.

 

Maybe this is another black/blue, white/gold dress thing.

 

We know 100% vader was different colors in order to highlight the details. This point was highly argued in the start and people would have completely guaranteed it was all black. It wasn't.

 

This is the same, it's not all black.

 

The words of an actor wearing the armor is hard to argue with but it's likely he just never got a good look at it? Not everyone has an eye for details. They are just doing a job, not dissecting the look/details of the suit.

[marktoots[501st]]

I agree with Derrek on this one. The colour variation is too consistent across all the reference material to be a matter of a protective film being forgotten.

General consensus across the social media groups is that there are paint finish/colour variations and I think this has some weight.

 

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[marktoots[501st]]

All

I extended the deadline for comments on the draft CRL due to allow the continued discussion over the paint finishes, etc. General consensus is that there are some panels/details on both the helmet and upper body armour that are colour contrasted using an alternative black paint finish to the gloss black. This is subtle but the evidence indicates that it is there. So this will remain in the draft CRL at this time.

There was also discussion around the ribbing and specific sizing. While I feel it is wholly appropriate to have the sizing in the CRL I understand that it will be difficult for people to achieve the exact dimensions and this could impact on their clearance. As such I have changed the wording to indicate that the sizing must be approximately ?? mm.

I have not made any further changes to what is basic or level 2 clearance. This I level to the Spec Ops Command Staff.

 

I believe that this draft CRL is now complete (excluding a couple of photos) and I will therefore submit it to the Command Staff for their review.

 

Thanks to everyone that has contributed to the development of this build. Special thanks goes to Tom Campbell for providing the model and parts photographs.

 

Have fun with your builds.