New CRL Proposal - Lieutenant Janek Sunber (SW:E)

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

@ Raider the character needs to reflect the art, clean shaven face and correct hair.  This was part of the discussion early on, since we had an LMO Ruling that Izzi cleared, Sunber being a unique character.  In this case it will be the same rquirement that we have in place for Thrawn, Isaard, etc, matching the character. 

 

I did some re reading, and looking up wards of what Shane posted, here is the pouch layout.  Ignore where the green trooper in hat says cuff style pouch. While this may be ok for basic, it would not match what we see on Sunber for at least an L2 requirement. 

I want to thank Shane Pm07 for doing all the legwork on figuring this out. 

there are total four  Magazine/ utility pouches - left and right belt right and right harness  Condor Utility pouch

Grenade style pouch next to the right buckle Grenade pouch

Large horizontal utility pouch (add 2 snaps, same as the Engineer back pouch) Condor Horizontal Utility / Mag pouch
triple mag pouch at the rear Triple Mag pouch.  

EB pouch similar to a modified MA8 pouch basic MA8  or a modified binocular pouch binocular pouch * 

There are some changes I would like to make to the CRL as it stands. The CRL propsal currently says that the gloves are black, clearly they are not. I would at LEAST make this an L2 requirement, with basic approval being a black glove. 

The commlink description just says commlink on the left strap.     Aren't the commlinks white?  I would change this to olive green, we see no other depiction of these being any other color on the Officers. 

green leather work gloves, not great, have to take the suede off green leather glove 1

Better choice, I have these for my IAT, two came in the pack from Sportsmans Guide catalog. 

green leather glove 2

* read Shanes post above regarding pouches, and sizes and what needs to be done.  Make sure your Electrobinos fit in the pouch. 

[pm07[TX]]

@Raider
Lets get this moving forward.
Im all for getting the CRL done and approved as soon as possible, I've never had a preference who was first  lol  
 Also, It says Detachment Leader under your title

*plugs in Lucas's electric bear trimmer*
 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

5 hours ago, pm07 said:

@Raider
Lets get this moving forward.
Im all for getting the CRL done and approved as soon as possible, I've never had a preference who was first  lol  
 Also, It says Detachment Leader under your title

*plugs in Lucas's electric bear trimmer*
 

Title schmitle.  I don't like to wave that flag around lol.

I'm for working w/ people as a team if at all possible.  You put in alot of the groundwork.  If you're good with it and on board, then let's move forward.  THANK YOU!

@Barons_Crown Commence the shaving!!!

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Where do we currently stand on this? 

PM inbound.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

I am bumping this topic. 

Currently we do not have the officer version of the Imperial Army trooper established. The CRL is a guide, but we need someone to be the first to build it. 

[Hoda[CMD-DCA]]

On 11/21/2020 at 7:08 PM, Blackwatch said:

I am bumping this topic. 

Currently we do not have the officer version of the Imperial Army trooper established. The CRL is a guide, but we need someone to be the first to build it. 

So to summarize the differences compared to the IAT (after reading the thread):

- Hat instead of helmet

- Rank bar

- Different pouch configuration (more specific pouches than the IAT)

- Additional pockets under the IAT logo on the arms

- Additional accessories (namely the comlink, electrobinocular)

- Shave

That sounds about right?

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

yes it does and you are on track. Shane was originally going to source the stuff for this and do it.  The only issue may be having the correct matching fabric for the arm pockets. I have in the past cut the leg bottoms off my pants, sewed a piece of fabric back on so they can tuck back in, and made pockets with that fabric.  You dont even "NEED" working pockets. a strip the size of the one seen on regular crewmans uniforms, suitably folded/ tucked under and stitched, looks like a pocket. Ive done it,  I just cant use it as a pocket.  you may be able to make two pockets out of a single pants leg cuff that way. Maybe.  The rest is either readily sourced or in these modern times, printed.  

[pm07[TX]]

I'm still alive, it has been one of those years. LOL  The suit was dropped off to the seamstress right before Covid hit so I have no idea when it will be done. I think I have everything else already. 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Good to hear from you Shane!!

yeah this whole past (THAT WHICH SHALL NOT BE NAMED) sucked in a LOT of ways. 

[Hoda[CMD-DCA]]

Hey friends - I had exchanged some messages w/ @Blackwatchand mentioned I might be able to pull this together, so I have started a WIP thread over here!

As I was working through the build following along the proposed text and looking at the reference images (ha, or an excuse to go back and read the comics!), a few questions came up. I pointed them out in the build thread, but wanted to raise them here as well.

Feedback please!

--------------------------------

Green Imperial Jumpsuit - Collar

Thoughts about updating the level 2 text to the IAT text? I also see the snap on the chevron. I haven't seen the velco/strap evidence on Sunber?

Level 2 certification (if applicable)

Mandarin collar is closed by a chevron shaped strap across the neck.
Collar is closed by a rectangular piece of velcro. Stitching is visible from the exterior.

Level two certification (if applicable):

Mandarin collar is closed by a chevron shaped strap across the neck.
A single snap is present near the chevron point.
Snap does not need to be functional.
Snap should be olive green in color.

Web Harness

Do we need to clarify what kind of vanity pouch sits on the right suspender? I think the Condor 191044 utility pouch might be too big up there, where the Condor MA 15 Grenade Pouch doesn't look half bad.

Pouches

I couldn't find reference images of Sunber's left side. Most of what we see are either from the front, right, or the back. As such, I wasn't sure what the exact pouches look like on his left side. If we follow along the text as it's written right now, it'd look pretty bulky as well. What do you think of updating the texts to reflect the below?

• 2 rectangular pouches with a top flap, and strap from top to bottom securing it shut, sit to the left of the electro-binoculars pouch. >> 2 MA 15 Grenade Pouch OR rectangular pouches with a top flap, and strap from top to bottom securing it shut, sit to the left of the electro-binoculars pouch.
• A gas-mask style pouch sits on the right of the above pouches. >> A gas-mask style pouch sits on the right of the above pouches, with a visible double snap closure or appear to have such. 

Comlink

Imperial Style Comlink to be worn in the comlink clip on the left suspender >> Olive Green Imperial Style Comlink to be worn in the comlink clip on the left shoulder.

Holster

I think I caught a remnant of an older text. I see in one of the comments that the text was going to be updated to be - "Replaced the handcuff pouches with a more accurate description: 2 rectangular pouches with a top flap, and strap from top to bottom securing it shut", but I didn't see it reflected on the first page. So ...

Holster is worn on the right side so it hangs below all belt pouches and after the MA47 double handcuff MOLLE PALS belt pouches. >> Holster is worn on the right side so it hangs below all belt pouches and after 2 rectangular pouches with a top flap, and strap from top to bottom securing it shut.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

On 3/26/2018 at 12:39 PM, ShovelGuy said:

For the Electrobinoculars pouch a few people including myself have used a Olive MOLLE Gas Mask Bag . In the Comic it appears to be an open top pouch that the binoculars slide into . Also I believe on the right side of the belt the pouches look more like MOLLE Double Frag Grenade Pouch and a single MOLLE Grenade pouch rather than the handcuff pouches .In the Star Wars Empire Comic The Wrong Side of The War Part 1 you can see Lieutenant Sunber has 3 pouches on his right side that appear to have buckles . In Empire Comic " To The Last Man" there is a trooper , looks like the purposed IA Specialist , has two pouches on his left side that appear to be like the handcuff pouches but with button snaps . These would be perfect as filler pouches for the left side in between the electrobinocular pouch and the 3-cell mag pouch on the back of the belt.

Ive got about five tabs open going back and forth in the discussion, so Im going to reference back to the original discussions where I can.  So, way back when a lifetime ago in good old 2018 when all was right with the world, the LMO determined that lt Sunber is an officer and a unique character so he does not have the same mandatory layout. 

 

Collar:

Level 2 certification (if applicable)

Mandarin collar is closed by a chevron shaped strap across the neck.
Collar is closed by a rectangular piece of velcro. Stitching is visible from the exterior.

Level two certification (if applicable):

Mandarin collar is closed by a chevron shaped strap across the neck.
A single snap is present near the chevron point.
Snap does not need to be functional.
Snap should be olive green in color.

I agree that the collar description needs to be changed.  That will go into the rewrite. 

Pouches: 

Back in May 2019 Shane commented: 

Raider,

For the pouch specifics here you go:

2 rectangular pouches with a top flap, and strap from top to bottom securing it shut, sit to the right of the belt buckle where the harness meets the belt: Condor 191044 or MA15

A gas-mask style pouch sits on the right of the above pouches: Condor MA2
* This is a close match due to the actual gas mask pouch is a vertical mount/opening

A tactical triple AK magazine PALS belt pouch should be on the rear of the belt: Condor MA33

An electrobinoculars pouch sits on the left of the belt buckle where the harness meets the belt: Condor 191064 or MA8.
*The actual bino pouch(191064)  is 6" high while the utility pouch (MA8 ) is 4.5" high but would require removal of the molle/pals on the front of the pouch.

2 rectangular pouches with a top flap, and strap from top to bottom securing it shut, sit to the left of the electrobinoculars pouch: Condor 191044 or MA15

 

@pm07 Shane where / which image did you use to determine the left side layout? 

I see your description here, starting at the buckle and working around to the PALS pouch.  

I see a pouch on the left side behind the macrobinocular pouch. Possibly a mask pouch.  Thats an option, but Im not following what your saying here:

• 2 rectangular pouches with a top flap, and strap from top to bottom securing it shut, sit to the left of the electro-binoculars pouch. >> 2 MA 15 Grenade Pouch OR rectangular pouches with a top flap, and strap from top to bottom securing it shut, sit to the left of the electro-binoculars pouch.
• A gas-mask style pouch sits on the right of the above pouches. >> A gas-mask style pouch sits on the right of the above pouches, with a visible double snap closure or appear to have such. 

Comlink

Imperial Style Comlink to be worn in the comlink clip on the left suspender >> Olive Green Imperial Style Comlink to be worn in the comlink clip on the left shoulder.    -----Agreed on change

Holster

Holster is worn on the right side so it hangs below all belt pouches and after the MA47 double handcuff MOLLE PALS belt pouches. >> Holster is worn on the right side so it hangs below all belt pouches and after 2 rectangular pouches with a top flap, and strap from top to bottom securing it shut.

Lets make a change and break this up for clarity

Holster

Holster is worn on the wearer's right hip, and hangs below all belt pouches.  The holster is situated behind the double handcuff belt pouches.   

The back of the holster is open except for the bottom 1.5" (38mm)  with a strap to secure it over the top of the handgrip.  

The holster is olive green, and is made of leather, molded kydex, ABS, Fiberglass or other rigid material which will hold its shape. 

If you remember the original Colonial Warrior holsters they were made out of split Kydex. I used to make these for local Warriors. 

 

I would like to nail these items down, and then Im going to post a updated rewrite here, or in another topic, for review. 

[Hoda[CMD-DCA]]

6 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

I see a pouch on the left side behind the macrobinocular pouch. Possibly a mask pouch.  Thats an option, but Im not following what your saying here:

• 2 rectangular pouches with a top flap, and strap from top to bottom securing it shut, sit to the left of the electro-binoculars pouch. >> 2 MA 15 Grenade Pouch OR rectangular pouches with a top flap, and strap from top to bottom securing it shut, sit to the left of the electro-binoculars pouch.
• A gas-mask style pouch sits on the right of the above pouches. >> A gas-mask style pouch sits on the right of the above pouches, with a visible double snap closure or appear to have such. 

Hahahahaha yes I, too, had a bunch of tabs open as I was working on this! Lots of good info in the discussion threads.

Re: the two things you pointed out where I wasn't so clear - 

• For the first bullet, I was trying to address for the "left side" of Sunber. Without specific configs here, maybe the direction can also be "just fill the gap with similar pouches?"
• Re: the gas-mask style pouch to the right of the above pouches ... I added in the double snap closure to try to address this image of Sunber (see bottom left), where that pouch had a double snap. 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

AHH. ok, it was determined in the discussion back and forth between Neal, Matt and Shane that the trooper at the top of the graphic is not Sunber, but is a regular trooper in the optional hat. he does not have the PALS triple pouch on the back that Sunber has.  I believe that graphic has created some confusion over time, but helped us establish the troopers.  The double snap is the same thing I have on my Sapper in back, with the double snaps; that is consistant across the art. 

 

I would like to bring up the belt.  On the Army troopers there was the discussion to remove belt holes, as they are not seen in all panels.  I wrote the new CRL to allow them, nor not.  Since we do see the belt holes on Sunber, I would prefer to keep them as a L2 option. 

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

I think the most logical step we could have with this is to create another master post within this thread, similar to what I did with the Phase 0 Dark Trooper, and go through each costume piece by piece and finalize the text as we go. I can get the post added to this one to get us started if you'd like? This discussion has been going awhile and we may not able to edit the initial proposals.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Ryan I agree, over the two years its kind of bounced back and forth.  im at work waiting on a maintenance team to arrive for a hard bent jet, so Ill do what I can. 

 

Regarding pouches, both here and in Kessels WIP discussion, I found this. This is our left pouch setup answer. It was always there I just didnt see it. 

 

 

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

15 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

Ryan I agree, over the two years its kind of bounced back and forth.  im at work waiting on a maintenance team to arrive for a hard bent jet, so Ill do what I can. 

 

Regarding pouches, both here and in Kessels WIP discussion, I found this. This is our left pouch setup answer. It was always there I just didnt see it. 

 

 

I can set it up for you! Then you can edit it as you please.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Ok lets do that. I dont know when I am going to get called for this maintenance team, they are enroute. 

 

I would like to lock it when you are done, so everyone can read, and see what we are about to do, and catch up, then we can take it piece by piece.

 

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Just now, Blackwatch said:

Ok lets do that. I dont know when I am going to get called for this maintenance team, they are enroute. 

 

I would like to lock it when you are done, so everyone can read, and see what we are about to do, and catch up, then we can take it piece by piece.

 

You want me to create a new thread and take the thing to that?

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

you know, thats not a bad idea.  Start over.  lock this and create a link to that. We did it befor and it worked to our benefit. 

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

We will create a fresh progress thread to tackle each item piece by piece and link to this thread.