Imperial Army Trooper - Andor - CRL Discussion

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

yes, exactly that was my intent, and I know with text it doesn't always come across exactly as we think about it as we write it, so I wanted to get confirmation before moving on.  If its clear to others, then we can use the text.   Agree that the TU is mounted directly atop the goggle elastic for L2. 

 

[Felix[501st]]

I agree with the Helmet proposed text. And I agree with the lvl 1 and lvl2 interpretation for the stripe and telemetry units . For me we can move to the googles. 

 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Lets move on to the goggles. 

This is the base Mudtrooper text, but we know there are differences.  

from the Mudtrooper CRL:

 

Goggles Change Log 1.0

Goggles

Goggles shall have an aged chrome (silver) frame with detail painting and weathering to match reference image. The knurled nose bridge adjuster is brass in appearance.

Goggles shall have a trim around metallic frame. Trim shall be rubber or foam.

Goggles have dark angled lens  a clear lens featuring two flat panels on each side.

Goggle Strap features two sizes of elastic - The thinner elastic strap attaches directly to the goggles and is sewn to the larger strap, which forms the main goggle strap.

The goggle strap features a number of buckles:

There are metallic buckles on each side of the goggles through which the 1" (25mm) elastic is threaded.

A large buckle greeblie on the  left hand back side through which the 1.5" (40mm) elastic is threaded. This greeblie features a beige square inset into the buckle matching the helmet color.

Two black tri-glides on the right rear through which the 1.5" (40mm) elastic is threaded.

Goggles may be worn over the eyes or on   are worn on the brim of the helmet.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Serrated 1" (25mm) slide buckles on each side of the goggles through which the 1" (25mm) elastic is threaded.

Goggle straps are approximately 1" (25mm) and 1.5" (40mm).

1” (25mm) webbing should be used to attach serrated buckle to goggles.

Goggles and strap are permanently mounted to the helmet.

Goggle strap has the Telemetry Unit mounted directly to it on the right side of the helmet. 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Blackwatch
redlined the word "serrated" in the L2 goggle strap

[TeaJay[TX]]

I noticed this last night, now that we are on to the goggles, what do you all think of this?

Specifically for the lens material... does it seem like this specific trooper has no clear/smokey lens material on his helmet:

Almost like it just has the silver frame attached to a cut out of a backing material that matches the paint of the rest of the armor/helmet.

VS... this trooper:

 

Both of these troopers were in the same scene with assumably the same lighting, so we should have seen some sort of reflection effect of the clear/smokey lens on the top trooper.

Makes me wonder if the lens material should be optional at any tier. Thoughts?

Outside of this one oddity, I think @Blackwatch's write up for goggles looks good. I will defer to the muddies out there that are more familiar with the goggle setup.

 

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

1 hour ago, TeaJay said:

I noticed this last night, now that we are on to the goggles, what do you all think of this?

Specifically for the lens material... does it seem like this specific trooper has no clear/smokey lens material on his helmet:

Almost like it just has the silver frame attached to a cut out of a backing material that matches the paint of the rest of the armor/helmet.

VS... this trooper:

 

Both of these troopers were in the same scene with assumably the same lighting, so we should have seen some sort of reflection effect of the clear/smokey lens on the top trooper.

Makes me wonder if the lens material should be optional at any tier. Thoughts?

Outside of this one oddity, I think @Blackwatch's write up for goggles looks good. I will defer to the muddies out there that are more familiar with the goggle setup.

 

Yeah, I'd say see if the on set guys can shed any light on that before we spend time trying to figure that oddity out. Could easily just be a case of a lens breaking or falling out and them not having time to replace it before shooting. I mean, what sort of crazies would notice or discuss such a thing ?

The draft text looks good, though I'll defer to our muddy brothers and sisters to catch anything subtle.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

From what we do know, I think the lens broke or fell out or both. Clearly this was shot on the super cheap. 

There should be a lens in there.

The real arguments begin with Hoth Trench troopers where the amber lenses reflect green. 

[TeaJay[TX]]

The close up of the trooper with lens material from the screenshots above occur at 10:06 - 10:08 in the episode. 

Smoke Gray; Dark Green? Doesn't look overly dark compared to many other trooper lens types, but the cloudy weather lighting and extremely limited screen time at a close distance makes this one a challenge. @fb501had a helmet on in the filming of this episode, hopeful for his input. 

[Felix[501st]]

They might not be the same ones, but in the trailer and looking at the Ferrix trooper,  they look dark green (specially in the troopers on the center) :

[Wompet[501st]]

2 hours ago, Felix said:

They might not be the same ones, but in the trailer and looking at the Ferrix trooper,  they look dark green (specially in the troopers on the center) :

I think those are the black-tunic and pants troopers first seen in Episode 8.

The armor is probably the same, but before anyone starts using it as reference for the green troopers under discussion ...

[pm07[TX]]

Interesting that the buckles are visible on these chin straps but not on the ones form the robbery planet. 
 

Maybe we need to start a thread for the black uniform troopers separately. Or will they be considered IOC since I am assuming ISB Security forces? 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Shane I believe those should be covered separately, and may be included as a CRL tab for the different versions, as we did with the Mudtrooper.  Once we have the We were told by @fb501 that they were very cheap and broke en route and were removed from a bunch of helmets. 

 

I originally thought these lenses were clear;  Im not convinced that the lens in the checkpoint guard troopers goggle lens (Mr. Urination) is particularly dark, but I may be wrong about that. 

 Im not hitting "Shade 5" on this;  against that dark paint it would appear darker than it is, but I am picking up "shade 3" grinding or cutting sheild style.  Looking at the side view of both sets of guards, we can see more light than would normally be transmitted by a Shade 5 lens material.  

[TeaJay[TX]]

4 hours ago, Blackwatch said:

Shane I believe those should be covered separately, and may be included as a CRL tab for the different versions, as we did with the Mudtrooper.  Once we have the We were told by @fb501 that they were very cheap and broke en route and were removed from a bunch of helmets. 

 

I originally thought these lenses were clear;  Im not convinced that the lens in the checkpoint guard troopers goggle lens (Mr. Urination) is particularly dark, but I may be wrong about that. 

 Im not hitting "Shade 5" on this;  against that dark paint it would appear darker than it is, but I am picking up "shade 3" grinding or cutting sheild style.  Looking at the side view of both sets of guards, we can see more light than would normally be transmitted by a Shade 5 lens material.  

Agreed with shade 3 as the darkness level, I wouldn't go any darker than that.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Ok so lets do the revision to the goggle description. I believe we can lock this down quickly.

 

Goggles Change Log 1.1

Goggles

Goggles shall have an aged chrome or silver frame with detail painting and weathering to match reference image. The knurled nose bridge adjuster is brass in appearance.

Goggles shall have a trim around metallic frame. Trim shall be rubber or foam.

Goggles have a tinted lens featuring two flat panels on each side.

Goggle Strap features two sizes of elastic - The thinner elastic strap attaches directly to the goggles and is sewn to the larger strap, which forms the main goggle strap.

The goggle strap features a number of buckles:

There are metallic buckles on each side of the goggles through which the 1" (25mm) elastic is threaded.

A large buckle greeblie on the back side through which the 1.5" (40mm) elastic is threaded. This greeblie features a square inset into the buckle matching the helmet color.

Goggles are worn on the brim of the helmet.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Serrated 1" (25mm) slide buckles on each side of the goggles through which the 1" (25mm) elastic is threaded.

Goggle straps are approximately 1" (25mm) and 1.5" (40mm).

1” (25mm) webbing should be used to attach serrated buckle to goggles.

Goggles and strap are permanently mounted to the helmet.

Goggle strap has the Telemetry Unit mounted directly to it on the right side of the helmet. 

[TeaJay[TX]]

36 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

Ok so lets do the revision to the goggle description. I believe we can lock this down quickly.

 

Goggles Change Log 1.1

Goggles

Goggles shall have an aged chrome or silver frame with detail painting and weathering to match reference image. The knurled nose bridge adjuster is brass in appearance.

Goggles shall have a trim around metallic frame. Trim shall be rubber or foam.

Goggles have a tinted lens featuring two flat panels on each side.

Goggle Strap features two sizes of elastic - The thinner elastic strap attaches directly to the goggles and is sewn to the larger strap, which forms the main goggle strap.

The goggle strap features a number of buckles:

There are metallic buckles on each side of the goggles through which the 1" (25mm) elastic is threaded.

A large buckle greeblie on the back side through which the 1.5" (40mm) elastic is threaded. This greeblie features a square inset into the buckle matching the helmet color.

Goggles are worn on the brim of the helmet.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Serrated 1" (25mm) slide buckles on each side of the goggles through which the 1" (25mm) elastic is threaded.

Goggle straps are approximately 1" (25mm) and 1.5" (40mm).

1” (25mm) webbing should be used to attach serrated buckle to goggles.

Goggles and strap are permanently mounted to the helmet.

Goggle strap has the Telemetry Unit mounted directly to it on the right side of the helmet. 

I like it! Others' opinions?

[nanotek[CMD-DWM]]

Thanks everyone for continuing the work, looking good!

Strap appears to be fixed to the sides but not all the way around. There is some buckling of the strap in one of the references supporting this.

Not sure I like the term Googles worn on the brim, maybe something like "placed just above the brim as shown in pics..."?

The lens is both missing and not in some shots, however I think it would nice to include the lens as a requirement in the CRL. Although I'm not sure how people would feel about that?

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

So, hear me out.     

I cant imagine having a goggle, without a lens in it.  Heres my thought-

You are out on a troop, and people are checking your gear out.  Then they notice you dont have a lens in your goggles.   They ask, you reply "its canon".  Then they ask "WHY is that canon????? no lens in a goggle?????" and walk away laughing shaking their head.     I still feel it was a aberration, just like we had white tape holding the TDs together on Tattooine. I cant unsee the tape now. But, "its canon!" And the right knee cap broke off of Din Djarin's shin armor during the fight on  top of the transport.  Things happen during production.  I watch clocks in the background of TV or movie scenes, I pay very close attention to them, most are fixed at the same time but digital clocks usually arent. 

 

I think we need to have at the least a clear plastic lens in place for L1. 

There is bunching in the back of the strap on the goggle. Would that be where the strap enters the goggle buckle?

There is something white visible on left side strap, which unless Im very mistaken is regular old double sided poster tape.  

Placed above the brim is fine, I can change that. The text comes directly from the Mudtrooper CRL. 

 

EDIT-Afterthought

Im looking back through our reference pictures. From the side the strap lays flat and tight to the back of the helmet. The point where it projects out would be that large buckle that has the square in it. Would that, Could that be the "buckling" or "puckering" that we are seeing? Are we actually just seeing the buckle itself? 

Edited November 1, 2022 by Blackwatch
Added a though afterwards

[SpaceWelder[TX]]

4 hours ago, Blackwatch said:

You are out on a troop, and people are checking your gear out.  Then they notice you dont have a lens in your goggles.   They ask, you reply "its canon".  Then they ask "WHY is that canon????? no lens in a goggle?????" and walk away laughing shaking their head.   

@Blackwatch and I have had our differences in the past, but this is one of my core beliefs as far as our responsibilities to representing our characters.  I'm in the entertainment industry and "30 feet away on a galloping horse" is a commonly used phrase.  We do not have that luxury and should be very aware that what was done on set is not necessarily supportive of bringing these characters into the real world.

 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Making the change suggested, Im going to keep it at change log 1.1.

 

If theres no further discussion on this topic Id like to lock the goggles and move on to the next item. 

 

Goggles Change Log 1.1

Goggles

Goggles shall have an aged chrome or silver frame with detail painting and weathering to match reference image. The knurled nose bridge adjuster is brass in appearance.

Goggles shall have a trim around metallic frame. Trim shall be rubber or foam.

Goggles have a tinted lens featuring two flat panels on each side.

Goggle Strap features two sizes of elastic - The thinner elastic strap attaches directly to the goggles and is sewn to the larger strap, which forms the main goggle strap.

The goggle strap features a number of buckles:

There are metallic buckles on each side of the goggles through which the 1" (25mm) elastic is threaded.

A large buckle greeblie on the back side through which the 1.5" (40mm) elastic is threaded. This greeblie features a square inset into the buckle matching the helmet color.

Goggles are worn  on Just above  the brim of the helmet.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Serrated 1" (25mm) slide buckles on each side of the goggles through which the 1" (25mm) elastic is threaded.

Goggle straps are approximately 1" (25mm) and 1.5" (40mm).

1” (25mm) webbing should be used to attach serrated buckle to goggles.

Goggles and strap are permanently mounted to the helmet.

Goggle strap has the Telemetry Unit mounted directly to it on the right side of the helmet. 

[bubuc44]

hi guys  

Amazing !

i was part of the build on the IOC, the soft part are in production at our tailor in France will come back to you soon with pictures of the soft part (as mannequin hopefully

we have someone that made a lot of work about blasters if you want 

love to read and see how professional you are and how far it goes !!!!!!!!! 

 

[TeaJay[TX]]

@Blackwatch Can we sneak in the soft officer cap next before moving on to the tunic? There are so many troopers with the soft cap that it's worth jumping into if you all are okay with that next.

 

@Felix has a great start on the bottom of his post here: 

I do have some suggestions on it and interested in opinions, but will hold off on that tiny rabbit hole until we agree that we are ready for it. It honestly shouldn't require much discussion, we can save coloration and textile/material type of the soft parts for the tunic and trousers. The hat does appear to be made out of the same material as the rest of the soft goods.  

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Thats the plan I had, but we need to lock down the goggles before we move on to that. 

 

Is there any more commentary on the goggles before proceeding to the rest of the uniform? 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Ok, its been 24 hours, and with no further comment, Im locking the goggles.

Goggles

Goggles Change Log 1.1 (Final)

Goggles

Goggles shall have an aged chrome or silver frame with detail painting and weathering to match reference image. The knurled nose bridge adjuster is brass in appearance.

Goggles shall have a trim around metallic frame. Trim shall be rubber or foam.

Goggles have a tinted lens featuring two flat panels on each side.

Goggle Strap features two sizes of elastic - The thinner elastic strap attaches directly to the goggles and is sewn to the larger strap, which forms the main goggle strap.

The goggle strap features a number of buckles:

There are metallic buckles on each side of the goggles through which the 1" (25mm) elastic is threaded.

A large buckle greeblie on the back side through which the 1.5" (40mm) elastic is threaded. This greeblie features a square inset into the buckle matching the helmet color.

Goggles are worn  just above  the brim of the helmet.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Serrated 1" (25mm) slide buckles on each side of the goggles through which the 1" (25mm) elastic is threaded.

Goggle straps are approximately 1" (25mm) and 1.5" (40mm).

1” (25mm) webbing should be used to attach serrated buckle to goggles.

Goggles and strap are permanently mounted to the helmet.

Goggle strap has the Telemetry Unit mounted directly to it on the right side of the helmet. 

 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Moving forward to the hat, which is seen on half the troopers, I like Felix's proposal, and I think we should accept it as written:

 

Hat, Olive - Version 2

• Fabric is a medium weight suiting material of olive green. matches the tunic and pants.
• Base of the hat is conical, with a crown about 4" (101.6mm) tall.
• Front and rear “flaps” overlap on the sides and are about 4" (101.6mm) high.
• Front bill extends 3" (76mm) down, decorated with (5) (6) or (7) concentric stitches.
• An Imperial Code Disk may be is positioned in the center of the front vertical “flap,” but is not required.

OPTIONAL Level two certification 

• Rear flap is slightly lower than the crown heigh (lees than 4")
• Disks do not feature a notch or groove details.

Hat, Change log 1.0

 

Fabric matches the tunic and pants.

Base of the hat is conical, with a crown about 4" (101.6mm) tall.

Front and rear “flaps” overlap on the sides and are about 4" (101.6mm) high.

Front bill extends 3" (76mm) down, decorated with 6 concentric stitches.

An Imperial Code Disk is positioned in the center of the front vertical “flap”.

OPTIONAL Level two certification 

Rear flap is slightly lower than the crown heigh (lees than 4")

Disks do not feature a notch or groove details.

 

[TeaJay[TX]]

On 11/4/2022 at 9:17 AM, Blackwatch said:

Moving forward to the hat, which is seen on half the troopers, I like Felix's proposal, and I think we should accept it as written:

 

Hat, Olive - Version 2

• Fabric is a medium weight suiting material of olive green. matches the tunic and pants.
• Base of the hat is conical, with a crown about 4" (101.6mm) tall.
• Front and rear “flaps” overlap on the sides and are about 4" (101.6mm) high.
• Front bill extends 3" (76mm) down, decorated with (5) (6) or (7) concentric stitches.
• An Imperial Code Disk may be is positioned in the center of the front vertical “flap,” but is not required.

OPTIONAL Level two certification 

• Rear flap is slightly lower than the crown heigh (lees than 4")
• Disks do not feature a notch or groove details.

Hat, Change log 1.0

 

Fabric matches the tunic and pants.

Base of the hat is conical, with a crown about 4" (101.6mm) tall.

Front and rear “flaps” overlap on the sides and are about 4" (101.6mm) high.

Front bill extends 3" (76mm) down, decorated with 6 concentric stitches.

An Imperial Code Disk is positioned in the center of the front vertical “flap”.

OPTIONAL Level two certification 

Rear flap is slightly lower than the crown heigh (lees than 4")

Disks do not feature a notch or groove details.

 

I like this as written as well. The only thoughts I had are tied to the amount of stitching found on the bill of the hat. We know from a close up of one of the on-set bills that there are 6 stitch lines. I'm curious if we should stick with that exact number or allow for flexibility from the previosly written hat CRL details at least at level 1. 

It's  worth going through the episode to see if we can find any other troopers with a different stitch count... assuming there any good close ups that can confirm a different count other than 6.

I will take a look tonight and provide screenshots if I find anything useful.

 

Other than this potential item, I think it's a solid writeup.

[TeaJay[TX]]

Well it looks a bit wild west, just like the original hat CRL write-up that mentions 5,6, or 7 concentric stitches.

These photos are quick grabs from my phone on our large TV so that it was easier for me to count.

First up, the softcap soldier telling the helmeted soldiers to form up... this hat appears to only have 5 stitch lines:

 

Next up is Andor, his hat has a count of 6 stitched lines:

Skeen also has a count of 6:

Nemik also with a count of 6:

And last and the most stitchiest of them all, Taramyn with a total of 8 stitch lines:

 

-----

Seeing this much variance, I think we should revert to the original description with an added "8" for level 1 to say: "Front bill extends 3" (76mm) down, decorated with 5,  6, 7, or 8 concentric stitches.

and perhaps have a L2 statement that specifically states 6?... to be honest, it's likely unnecessary since the goal of a higher level is more screen accuracy, simply since Taramyn's hat have so many... but the other three do have 6 stitches each... the "Form up" soldier has 5...

I would allow for a range on this one... thoughts?