Imperial Army Trooper - Andor - CRL Discussion

[TeaJay[TX]]

8 hours ago, bubuc44 said:

@TeaJay of course you are right for the pocket 

please have a closer look to the picture below and have a closer look to the trouser, you'll see some lines on each legs (2 on each) 

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/47/2/1669101224-316225463-434050195594281-1596446907349928050-n.jpeg

In the photo you are referencing it does look like seams are present on that specific soldier.

In close ups of Nemik's pants, there doesn't appear to be seams across the front of the pants: 

I didn't see any on Skeen either:

 

Perhaps it should be a L2 requirement? 

We can definitely discuss further on this one when it is time to complete the trousers/pants.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

If were in agreement, I'd love to lock down the tunic text at Change Log 2.5 then move to the chest armor keeping our standardized CRL methodology in place. 

 

Change Log 2.5

Tunic 

A long-sleeved, olive green jacket that falls just to mid-thigh, with no visible zippers or buttons. 

Fabric has a denim textured material with a visible weave. 

Has a high mandarin style collar with  a left over right closure that rises from the front of the tunic.

The front closure overlaps left over right and rises from the hem at the bottom of the tunic to the top of the collar. 

Four pockets are present on the jacket front, covered by large flapped closures. Lower pockets are larger than the ones on the upper chest.  Lower pocket seams rest on the same seam as the end of the tunic

The rear of the jacket has a horizontal seam present near the upper back. Two vertical seams start below the horizontal upper back seam moving down the bottom of the jacket. 

Two black tunic hooks to hold the belt in place are permitted. If used, the hooks will pass from the inside of the tunic to the outside through holes on either side of the tunic at the hip. The belt covers the holes.

One pocket is present on each arm of the jacket, each covered by large flapped closures.

The top of the arm pocket flaps are in line with the top edge of the chest pockets. 

Above the left arm pocket flap, up to 2 black fabric rank bars may be present.

Cuffs on the sleeves are about mid-distance to the elbow. The material folds back on itself to form the cuff. 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

If left arm rank bars are present, the black fabric should be similar to duvetyn type of fabric and will  have 3 equidistant horizontal stitch lines through each rank bar.

The front jacket flap will have rectangular stitch marks with a stitched X inside where velcro is attached to keep the flap closed.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Nex up in the CRL order is the Chest Armor. Mudtroopers, Armored Cavalry uniforms, etc all move directly to the chest  and back armor after the tunic.

Heres the mudtrooper chest armor base text with my first revisions.  Essentially similar armor, with noted differences. 

Chest

Change log 1.0

Chest Armor

Chest armor matches visual references.

Accurate shape/design to front of chest.

There is an indented area around the outer edge of the center flat section.

Buckles attach to upper chest plate. Buckles are silver with black recesses. 

Shoulder straps are affixed to the chest plate at the buckle.

To the lower left side of the center flat panel is a recessed area angled inward from bottom to top with a raised rectangle greeblie and a recessed horizontal elongated oval. The elongated oval is painted red. The raised rectangle greeblie is painted light grey. 

Left of the recessed area is a raised square that extends from the center to the curved side of the armor. A white rectangle is present on this raised square.

 

 

On the top left side of the raised area is a raised oblong detail that protrudes outwards.

Chest and straps shall be painted matte field gray and be moderately weathered.  black. 

 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Green color is similar to Pantone 350U overlaid with Pantone 43

 

 

[TeaJay[TX]]

Let's kick off with some images and discussion on the greeblie and small paint details.

For the silver shoulder buckles, they appear to be all silver and resting directly on the chestplate's upper shoulder area and glued on similar to shore, tank, transport, mud - troopers, etc... 

One requested change from @Blackwatch's initial write up would be to remove "with black recesses" for the  "Buckles are silver with black recesses." I know that some vendor's casted resin buckles may have a flat portion as a result of the cast and some may say it aids in adhering it to the chest plate, but that flat bottom portion should be removed. I hope I'm not adding confusion, but here in this photo you can see that the buckle itself is all silver and the dark spot below the buckle is just the armor underneath. I do see @Blackwatch's point to make sure that anything recessed should be dark and people should not take the full casted buckle and just spray paint it and stick it on and call it a day... that lower flat part should be dremeled out to make it look like a proper buckle...

Now...wait... @Blackwatch is on to something actually... I can see that the upper recess may not be fully dremel'able. so perhaps the upper recessed location needs blackened.

That being said... maybe we should specifically state, "Buckles attach to upper chest plate. Buckles are silver with a black recess on upper narrow section of buckle and the larger recess shall expose the chest armor." I'm not in love with how it is written but interested in thoughts... 

Moving on to the next focus, colors of the greeblies and small details on the armor... lighting is a tricky thing...

In the above photo, to me, it looks like the shoulder buckles, the raised rectangle on the right side (wearer's left), center recessed area's greeblie on the right (wearer's left), all look silver to me. The recessed oblong oval is definitely red. More about the red in a bit...

But silver for everything right? I mean why would the costume creation staff go out of their way to use more than one similar color? I mean maybe... check out what lighting does here...

 

From this side should that raised left rectangle almost looks white compared to the buckle and the front (center) greeblie. The lighting does show that the buckle is more silver here than the previous shot.... but then...

 

This shot it looks like they are the same again... that silver, or maybe a gunmetal gray on the rectangle... looking at the hex values for this photo specifically they are just slight shades away from being the exact same color. 

So I'm at a bit of a loss here... I want to say all the "grayish / silver " spots are just silver... but I'm all for other's opinions on this one...

Making everything silver rather than a gunmetal gray on the armor but silver on the buckles... makes sense.... but so does the opposite... I can see that when they fabricated these costumes they had someone spray painting silver on a bunch of shoulder buckles and maybe others hand painting gunmetal gray.... 

In this shot it almost looks like the front greeble is white that matches the shoulder bell, and the buckle silver matches the raised side rectangle... but there's no way... it's got to be just odd lighting...

Throughout the episode with the lighting changes, "night time" filters they add in post-production as the story heads into dusk and night time... raises questions.. I think the best lighting we have is early on in the episode...

Bottom line is everything silver? (sans the red) or is it mix of silver shoulder buckles and gunmetal gray on the chestplate?... leaving it up to detachment staff on this one... @Blackwatch what are you and the crew thinking?

I like the idea of everything being all silver, but we just don't have enough evidence to say firmly...

----

For the red recessed oblong oval... are we thinking a dark red  (Humbrol 20) or just red (Humbrol 19)...

  

 

I'm leaning towards Humbrol 19... thoughts on the red too?

---

For the overall armor color, are we wanting to dive into that too? I know previously we were debating on (page 2) flat/matte black vs German gray vs.... others...

[bubuc44]

Hi Guys

the uniform has been shipped today I should get it next week, as soon as I'll receive it I'll submit pictures worn in order to review it

have. a great day

best 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

excellent observations and discussion points. 

Im not getting silver from my viewings for the details OTHER than the buckles. I see your point on the black recess, its just that. I have printed buckles; I'm at work right now but I'm going to pull my buckles out and look at them, however I do know that using magnets on the bottom of the Mudtrooper.UK files, there is a recess for a big magnet.  They have at least part of a bottom.  It can all be dremeled off but I dont know if they will work right after that unless a different method to secure the buckle to the front is used, maybe permanently mount that and feed the straps to the back after you put the armor on. 

After last nights episode (had to watch that twice) the all black Ferrix troopers have black shoulder buckles that dont show anything.  I need to rewatch to get a better view of the chest area.  Would the production team use only one color? its possible with the cost cutting that happens in production. 

I feel as if two colors are being used on the buckles. The buckles below look silver, while Andor's company looks gunmetal with slight corrosion. 

Looking at this image, out in the rain, somewhat natural light, the rectangle on the side of the chest looks different (to me) than the E10 bolt, belt buckle and even the cap disc. 

On the other details, Red 19 is what the JRS calls for for the commpad red squares, so thats consistent. Its not a bright red. 

One note-  shall we define which shade of black? Satin or semigloss? 

 

SO,- lets go to CL 1.2

 

Change log 1.0

Chest Armor

Chest armor matches visual references.

Accurate shape/design to front of chest.

There is an indented area around the outer edge of the center flat section.

Buckles attach to upper chest plate. Buckles are silver with black recesses. 

Shoulder straps are affixed to the chest plate at the buckle.

To the lower left side of the center flat panel is a recessed area angled inward from bottom to top with a raised rectangle greeblie and a recessed horizontal elongated oval. The elongated oval is painted Humbrol red #19 . The raised rectangle greeblie is painted silver or light grey. 

Left of the recessed area is a raised square that extends from the center to the curved side of the armor. A white or silver  rectangle is present on this raised square.

On the top left side of the raised area is a raised oblong detail that protrudes outwards.

Chest and straps shall be painted matte field gray and be moderately weathered.  black. 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Buckles have black recess on upper narrow section and the lower recess shall expose the chest armor.

 

Green color is similar to Pantone 350U overlaid with Pantone 43

 

[pm07[TX]]

Looking closely at the 'silver' buckles, I see flecks of black. Where they black and then weathered silver or vice versa? 

[TeaJay[TX]]

4 hours ago, pm07 said:

Looking closely at the 'silver' buckles, I see flecks of black. Where they black and then weathered silver or vice versa? 

I would assume that they are black cast resin that was painted or maybe they shot all the Ferrix scenes first and then repainting that armor for the Aldhani scenes. It seems like the intension is for them to be silver / gunmetal gray and parts of the spray paint may be flaking off.  Here it is in a lower light scene.

----

@Blackwatch -- I like the options of light gray / silver that you added to the latest revision write-up. I agree... it seems like the "hero" characters have a bit of a different shade to their buckles compared to background soldiers. So providing silver or gunmetal gray as options should probably be the way to go.

For the overall coloration of the armor.... Is the armor color on Aldhani actually the same matte black as on Ferrix? On page two of this thread folks were leaning towards, colorations similar to German Gray... we had these examples:

 

Originally I thought that the coloration of the overall Aldhani armor was a matte black, but when starting to look at these colors above, I started to question it...

But could the Aldhani and the Ferrix armor be the same color and lighting just playing tricks?... I'm not sold on them being the exact same color yet... but maybe they are...

Quick comparison of back (I know we are focused on the chest, but just doing this purely on color comparison)... Ferrix:

Aldhani:

Are the greens of the surrounding environment giving the armor on Aldhani a slightly different perceived color than that found on Ferrix even though they may be the exact same color? 

 

Ferrix Front: 

Aldhani Front:

---

I don't know... thoughts? I can dig up more comparison shots tomorrow...

[pm07[TX]]

I was just thinking if we need to put something in there about slight weathering being an option. I know how some GML get. ?

[pm07[TX]]

On a separate note, we know why no shin armor on the Aldhani guys. Fraser wasn't kidding when he said some got broke. LOL

 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

TeaJay please dig up more! I rewatched the episode twice today at work but I could not get screengrabs.  Irritating. 

I thought I was going nuts, because some of the Ferrix Rix Road armor does look black, especially when the troopers line up with their shields in front of the funeral party.  In other scenes the background characters, typically someone getting flipped or otherwise battered, is the very dark german grey. Im really leaning towards Tamiya TS4, and whatever the Montana Gold spray paint color would be. 

I just walked outside and shot my spare ICAT visor MG NATO number 1170. Definitely GREEN. Then for defecations and snorts I shot the other side with MG 7070 Stealth. Its dark grey for sure but no darker than any dark grey primer on US store shelves.   Tomorrow Im going to try to stop in at the hobby shop and buy some TS4 German grey and compare.  Then we will have a definitive answer if it is even close. Ive been around a ton of models for about 50 years, and most German greys do not get this dark. 

I believe all of the shoulder straps were cast in one piece in black flexible latex. Like the same rubber latex we use for TIE pilot straps. The buckles on the chest got painted for the checkpoint scene and were painted gunmetal for that one scene, at least on Andors company.  The other troopers, the regular Garrison troopers, have silver buckles that appear brighter.  The shoulder strap mount on the back armor is bright silver, so Im really leaning towards a  full black repaint for the Rix Road scene, at least for SOME of the black-clad troopers, while the background troopers only got a partial repaint to get rid of some of the silver parts, as I cannot see any silver boxes or shoulder mounts. If you go to the scene were the Officer calls for the troops to form up outside, all the backplates are all-black (or superdarkgrey), and do not have the silver box inserts. I just printed my boxes so I dialed straight in on this detail. During the pushback scene where the boots are clearly seen, we see that the  shin armor (not seen before on these troopers) matches the armor color, in this case the very dark grey/black/green.

I apologize for doing this but I couldnt get a screengrab of this background trooper, so I had to take a pic of the screen with my phone. UGH! But, look at the black helmet strap and the black belt. Even the boot is a different black shade than the strap holding the shin armor on.  Color saturation and sheen are totally different than "black", and I think this is an unpainted checkpoint trooper in black clothes. 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Im about to leave on a road trip for work. I MIGHT get back to this this weekend, but likely not. 

Shane your point about the armor, and something I read about actress Denise Gaugh filming her scenes makes me think these scenes may have been filmed early on, then the armor painted?  I looked at the shins pretty closely and dont see any broken (yet).

[TeaJay[TX]]

9 hours ago, Blackwatch said:

Im about to leave on a road trip for work. I MIGHT get back to this this weekend, but likely not. 

Shane your point about the armor, and something I read about actress Denise Gaugh filming her scenes makes me think these scenes may have been filmed early on, then the armor painted?  I looked at the shins pretty closely and dont see any broken (yet).

I won't have time tonight to get more screen grabs. Family visiting for Thanksgiving. Will have time tomorrow evening.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

OK-SO!

Here I sit in a hotel room, with my work finished and Ive been thinking about this all afternoon. I have a few minutes before dinner 

I went to the hobby shop and there it was , staring me in the face.  

Black Green: a RLM color used on German WWII airplanes on the propeller and sometimes on the fuselage.  There was a lovely FW190  hanging over the cash register and the prop was the perfect shade. Exactly what we need and commonly available on model paints in the RLM paint range. Reiche Luft Ministry.

RLM 70 is very likely what we are looking for. Good old BlackGreen.

Here is one link to one model paint range that carries RLM70

Model Air Vallejo RLM70 Black Green 71021 acrylic airbrush color (acrylicosvallejo.com)

 

[TeaJay[TX]]

3 hours ago, Blackwatch said:

OK-SO!

Here I sit in a hotel room, with my work finished and Ive been thinking about this all afternoon. I have a few minutes before dinner 

I went to the hobby shop and there it was , staring me in the face.  

Black Green: a RLM color used on German WWII airplanes on the propeller and sometimes on the fuselage.  There was a lovely FW190  hanging over the cash register and the prop was the perfect shade. Exactly what we need and commonly available on model paints in the RLM paint range. Reiche Luft Ministry.

RLM 70 is very likely what we are looking for. Good old BlackGreen.

Here is one link to one model paint range that carries RLM70

Model Air Vallejo RLM70 Black Green 71021 acrylic airbrush color (acrylicosvallejo.com)

 

For my eyeballs... it looks good  -- It does look like a different shade than the Ferrix troopers the more I look at it... Can we find a matte enamel version that is in a spray can? ...that will likely be the golden goose.

Not sure if want to limit to Montana Gold; here's the list of their colors: https://www.montana-cans.com/en/spray-cans/montana-spray-paint/gold-400ml-artist-paint/montana-gold-400ml-colors

I feel like their closet color is G7070 - "STEALTH", but it appears more like the Tamiya TS4...

I think what you found with Vallejo RLM70 is darker... 

Montana's White line has a color called  7070- "B-52" -- https://www.montana-cans.com/en/spray-cans/montana-spray-paint/white-400ml-graffiti-paint/montana-white-400ml

But it feels a little too light...

Do you feel we need to make a decision on if the Ferrix armor and the Aldhani armor is the same color or different?

 

Here's a BlackGreen RAL6012 -- https://www.myperfectcolor.com/paint/75257-ral-6012-black-green-paint -- I think this one looks too green.

Here's a Granite Grey RAL7026 -- https://www.myperfectcolor.com/paint/75296-ral-7026-granite-grey-paint -- Too light?

Valspar 95-34C - Blackwatch Green -- https://www.myperfectcolor.com/paint/74564-valspar-95-34c-blackwatch-green -- This one is okay... but still not my favorite.

Sherwin Williams GreenBlack SW6994 - https://www.myperfectcolor.com/paint/26911-sherwin-williams-sw6994-greenblack --- This feels close to your post. my favorite of what I could find.. thoughts?

 

[pm07[TX]]

Dave , Fraser had stated in another post that the Aldhani trooper were originally supposed to have the shin armor but when they arrived for shooting.

"apparently we were meatn to have the shin greaves but they had broke loads of them ny the time they came to film in scotland"

 

[pm07[TX]]

So stupid question here, remember I am just a dumb grunt.   But how much does the individual color differences in the various tvs and moniiters that we view the screen caps on matter?  Could that account for the off-colorish?  

[bubuc44]

Hi Guys just received the soft part

first try seems ok for me, will do better pictures soon 

let me know in comment 

this is the corporal version with the mustache (as I do November..)

thanks 

 

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/47/6/1669469687-316346225-819980145722052-8863365799050310780-n.jpeg

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/47/6/1669469956-316356140-828745638377587-2021596886183283597-n.jpeg

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/47/6/1669469964-316403519-1342275103268570-8944722750677050416-n.jpeg

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/47/6/1669469972-316431172-546839473953833-2625656938160503915-n.jpeg

http://www.noelshack.com/2022-47-6-1669469983-316431959-5616223461831015-5915345010499783908-n.jpeg

 

[TeaJay[TX]]

5 hours ago, pm07 said:

So stupid question here, remember I am just a dumb grunt.   But how much does the individual color differences in the various tvs and moniiters that we view the screen caps on matter?  Could that account for the off-colorish?  

@pm07What device you are viewing the images or the show on does have an impact. If you're watching on an OLED vs LED vs LCD... all the various types of monitors/TV plus their individual color contrast settings will have an impact. Most of my screenshots are ripped straight from my computer, but I end up looking at them on my OLED laptop and LED TV to compare differences... the OLED always shows as darker... 

This is a great point to make when finalizing a color decision. It's one of the reasons why I haven't been strongly decisive on any particular color in addition to post-production filters added for the show and lighting of scenes... that's why I'm so back and forth on the question.... are the ferrix and aldhani armors the same color just lit differently because of the scene and set...

 

[TeaJay[TX]]

7 minutes ago, bubuc44 said:

Hi Guys just received the soft part

first try seems ok for me, will do better pictures soon 

let me know in comment 

this is the corporal version with the mustache (as I do November..)

thanks 

 

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/47/6/1669469687-316346225-819980145722052-8863365799050310780-n.jpeg

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/47/6/1669469956-316356140-828745638377587-2021596886183283597-n.jpeg

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/47/6/1669469964-316403519-1342275103268570-8944722750677050416-n.jpeg

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/47/6/1669469972-316431172-546839473953833-2625656938160503915-n.jpeg

http://www.noelshack.com/2022-47-6-1669469983-316431959-5616223461831015-5915345010499783908-n.jpeg

http://www.noelshack.com/2022-47-6-1669469983-316431959-5616223461831015-5915345010499783908-n.jpeg

 

For the Tunic and Pants, the overall look seems on target. The material will need to be a denim/jean material with visual weave seen on typical denim as seen from a photo taken by one of the background actors:

It's hard to tell in your photos and I'm not sure how strict we should enforce specific pocket seams... but be sure the flaps on your pocket have two sets of seams around them as seen here:

Not sure if that should be a level 1 vs level 2 approval to have the full boxed in seams... up to detachment crew.

 

I do think some troopers have the horizontal leg seams, but not all. I remember you showing yours with them... which in my book based on what we've seen this should be allowed.

Based on what we know about the gloves the upper hand has no adornments, it is smooth on top and from the information we have from @fb501we know that they are these dent brand specifically if you are wanting full on-screen accuracy -- https://us.dentsgloves.com/products/daniel-mens-unlined-leather-gloves -- but I'm digressing from the main focus of the tunic and pants... 

Overall it's looking promising... It may be worth starting a build thread. I'm planning on doing the same when my armor and soft parts arrive. 

[bubuc44]

sur @TeaJay

 

here below for the pocket requirement, two sets of seems

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2022/47/6/1669473844-316490807-733624984811450-4282785281233318313-n.jpeg

 

the material is a cotton stretch jean,

the gloves are not accurate I am waiting for mine, was just for the picture  

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Good morning everyone. 
Lets steer the topic back on course, we need to finalize the chest armor. Ill come back to the tunic, but I want t to clear and lock the chest armor before hitting any other parts. 

I have 50 years of model building. 40 or so of that using thousands of spray cans. I can line up ten different colors all marked the as the same color, by ten different model and regular spray paint makers and they will all look different.  Testors paint was notorious for different batches looking completely different. I use FS color coded paints for almost all of my models, which is US Federal Standard. I can use five different FS32019 or FS34012, and each one will look different applied to the same surface applied by the same person at the same time.  At every model contest it's always the same "looks too green to me" or "looks to grey to me".  Its all subjective, and depends on how it was post processed plus our monitors, etc. 

I sprayed Montana Gold Stealth and its just grey. Maybe FS36118 Gunship grey after the plane has sat out in the Florida sun baking for a few years.  Nothing particularly dark about it. I bought TS4 but I do not believe it will be particularly dark.  Ill get some blackgreen RLM70 and test it. 

TeaJay thanks for the links and research. Its a rabbit hole, I know.  

* Do we know WHERE the armor was built? Was it in California or in the UK? That will tell us more about what paints were used. If the armor was built in the UK it may be a Halfords color. I looked at the Halfords website and they use more color names associated with car models than color plates.

To me, (at least on the monitor and we can never trust that,)the MW 7070 looks like gunship grey FS36118 on the plane straight out of the Air Force paint shop.  Perhaps a bit too light. It would need to be sprayed over fresh, wet black so the colors blend, but that has its own disadvantages. the paint gets splothcy, on purpose, before the weathering that ICAT and Mud's get.  When the Mudtrooper was written we knew what was used, and wrote to that- Pantone 350U overlaid with Pantone 433U, which is the same that ICAT drivers do with their colors to get a mixed color.  A trooper building his rig in Venezuela or Ukraine will have completely different stuff than a trooper in New Jersey or California.   

Not to get too deep into decades old German prewar colors (still in use today) but a color like RAL 7021 Black Grey was once called Dunkelgrau and still is on model paint bottles. Dunkelgrau is a color contrast I use in small model cockpits to give some color depth to an otherwise all-black cockpit the size of your thumb. Its dark alrght with the barest hint of charcoal grey. Who knows, maybe thats what was used.   I am really leaning towards RLM or RAL colors now. 

That Sherwin Williams Greenblack has the right color flavor, at least on my monitor.  Id love to get some and run a sample, and get it wet and see how it looks on a cloudy day.  We can continue to discuss it here and through the back armor, but we will need to get it nailed down no later than the biceps and shoulders which will run as one discussion. 

We need to accept a range of acceptable shades.  Honestly I dont even know if we can do this for L1 or L2 because we dont have a definitive color. Perhaps we can do a tabbed CRL, that would give us better choices of color and range. If we find out what was used we can adjust the CRL later.  Using tabs would let the black uniforms be grouped correctly as well. 

to quickly go back to TeaJays point 

"Are the greens of the surrounding environment giving the armor on Aldhani a slightly different perceived color than that found on Ferrix even though they may be the exact same color? "

Within the posted photos, we see that the buckles change as well as the back plate shoulderstrap mount, going from silver to overall color with the different troopers. This leads me to believe its a full repaint, with flexible cast black straps and adjoined buckles. Only the buckle part got the paint with the flexible straps.  ICAT and Mutroopers are getting their straps made from flexible TPU printed on home 3d printers.  if you had the mold you could cast it. 

Heres my suggestions, as always feel free to reword this because it may make sense to me writing it , but not to everyone else.  This is still subject to speculation at this point. 

We do know that all shoulder straps are black. I beleive that the buckle was also cast black, and repainted at least twice. 

Chest Armor change log 1.1

Chest Armor

Chest armor matches visual references.

Accurate shape/design to front of chest.

There is an indented area around the outer edge of the center flat section.

Buckles attach to upper chest plate. Buckles are gunmetal or silver with black recesses. 

Shoulder straps are affixed to the chest plate at the buckle. The shoulder strap is black. It is permitted to be made of cast flexible urethane or other flexible material. 

To the lower left side of the center flat panel is a recessed area angled inward from bottom to top with a raised rectangle greeblie and a recessed horizontal elongated oval. The elongated oval is painted Humbrol red #19 . The raised rectangle greeblie is painted silver or light grey. 

Left of the recessed area is a raised square that extends from the center to the curved side of the armor. A white or silver rectangle is present on this raised square.

On the top left side of the raised area is a raised oblong detail that protrudes outwards.

Chest and straps shall be painted matte field gray and be moderately weathered.  black.  shall be painted a very dark grey. Greenish undertones in certain lighting conditions is acceptable. An acceptable range of colors include RLM 70 to Sherwin Williams SW6994 Greenblack.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Buckles have black recess on upper narrow section and the lower recess shall expose the chest armor.

Buckles may have silver paint chipping showing gunmetal underneath the silver.

Green color is similar to Pantone 350U overlaid with Pantone 43

 

As always, please discuss further. 

 

 

 

[pm07[TX]]

10 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

* Do we know WHERE the armor was built? Was it in California or in the UK? That will tell us more about what paints were used. If the armor was built in the UK it may be a Halfords color. I looked at the Halfords website and they use more color names associated with car models than color plates.

If this helps, I remember them saying that the props/unis were made in the UK and Europe. IIRC they stated that that they would send the various projects out to whomever in the UK/EURo and get them back to finalize. In the UK I am guessing. 

 

[TeaJay[TX]]

4 hours ago, Blackwatch said:

Good morning everyone. 
Lets steer the topic back on course, we need to finalize the chest armor. Ill come back to the tunic, but I want t to clear and lock the chest armor before hitting any other parts. 

I have 50 years of model building. 40 or so of that using thousands of spray cans. I can line up ten different colors all marked the as the same color, by ten different model and regular spray paint makers and they will all look different.  Testors paint was notorious for different batches looking completely different. I use FS color coded paints for almost all of my models, which is US Federal Standard. I can use five different FS32019 or FS34012, and each one will look different applied to the same surface applied by the same person at the same time.  At every model contest it's always the same "looks too green to me" or "looks to grey to me".  Its all subjective, and depends on how it was post processed plus our monitors, etc. 

I sprayed Montana Gold Stealth and its just grey. Maybe FS36118 Gunship grey after the plane has sat out in the Florida sun baking for a few years.  Nothing particularly dark about it. I bought TS4 but I do not believe it will be particularly dark.  Ill get some blackgreen RLM70 and test it. 

TeaJay thanks for the links and research. Its a rabbit hole, I know.  

* Do we know WHERE the armor was built? Was it in California or in the UK? That will tell us more about what paints were used. If the armor was built in the UK it may be a Halfords color. I looked at the Halfords website and they use more color names associated with car models than color plates.

To me, (at least on the monitor and we can never trust that,)the MW 7070 looks like gunship grey FS36118 on the plane straight out of the Air Force paint shop.  Perhaps a bit too light. It would need to be sprayed over fresh, wet black so the colors blend, but that has its own disadvantages. the paint gets splothcy, on purpose, before the weathering that ICAT and Mud's get.  When the Mudtrooper was written we knew what was used, and wrote to that- Pantone 350U overlaid with Pantone 433U, which is the same that ICAT drivers do with their colors to get a mixed color.  A trooper building his rig in Venezuela or Ukraine will have completely different stuff than a trooper in New Jersey or California.   

Not to get too deep into decades old German prewar colors (still in use today) but a color like RAL 7021 Black Grey was once called Dunkelgrau and still is on model paint bottles. Dunkelgrau is a color contrast I use in small model cockpits to give some color depth to an otherwise all-black cockpit the size of your thumb. Its dark alrght with the barest hint of charcoal grey. Who knows, maybe thats what was used.   I am really leaning towards RLM or RAL colors now. 

That Sherwin Williams Greenblack has the right color flavor, at least on my monitor.  Id love to get some and run a sample, and get it wet and see how it looks on a cloudy day.  We can continue to discuss it here and through the back armor, but we will need to get it nailed down no later than the biceps and shoulders which will run as one discussion. 

We need to accept a range of acceptable shades.  Honestly I dont even know if we can do this for L1 or L2 because we dont have a definitive color. Perhaps we can do a tabbed CRL, that would give us better choices of color and range. If we find out what was used we can adjust the CRL later.  Using tabs would let the black uniforms be grouped correctly as well. 

to quickly go back to TeaJays point 

"Are the greens of the surrounding environment giving the armor on Aldhani a slightly different perceived color than that found on Ferrix even though they may be the exact same color? "

Within the posted photos, we see that the buckles change as well as the back plate shoulderstrap mount, going from silver to overall color with the different troopers. This leads me to believe its a full repaint, with flexible cast black straps and adjoined buckles. Only the buckle part got the paint with the flexible straps.  ICAT and Mutroopers are getting their straps made from flexible TPU printed on home 3d printers.  if you had the mold you could cast it. 

Heres my suggestions, as always feel free to reword this because it may make sense to me writing it , but not to everyone else.  This is still subject to speculation at this point. 

We do know that all shoulder straps are black. I beleive that the buckle was also cast black, and repainted at least twice. 

Chest Armor change log 1.1

Chest Armor

Chest armor matches visual references.

Accurate shape/design to front of chest.

There is an indented area around the outer edge of the center flat section.

Buckles attach to upper chest plate. Buckles are gunmetal or silver with black recesses. 

Shoulder straps are affixed to the chest plate at the buckle. The shoulder strap is black. It is permitted to be made of cast flexible urethane or other flexible material. 

To the lower left side of the center flat panel is a recessed area angled inward from bottom to top with a raised rectangle greeblie and a recessed horizontal elongated oval. The elongated oval is painted Humbrol red #19 . The raised rectangle greeblie is painted silver or light grey. 

Left of the recessed area is a raised square that extends from the center to the curved side of the armor. A white or silver rectangle is present on this raised square.

On the top left side of the raised area is a raised oblong detail that protrudes outwards.

Chest and straps shall be painted matte field gray and be moderately weathered.  black.  shall be painted a very dark grey. Greenish undertones in certain lighting conditions is acceptable. An acceptable range of colors include RLM 70 to Sherwin Williams SW6994 Greenblack.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Buckles have black recess on upper narrow section and the lower recess shall expose the chest armor.

Buckles may have silver paint chipping showing gunmetal underneath the silver.

Green color is similar to Pantone 350U overlaid with Pantone 43

 

As always, please discuss further. 

 

@Blackwatch -- For the line "On the top left side of the raised area is a raised oblong detail that protrudes outwards." -- are you referring to this?

 

It looks like you have text that covers this from the line above the one I mentioned... which is "Left of the recessed area is a raised square that extends from the center to the curved side of the armor. A white or silver rectangle is present on this raised square."

--- I'm just currently confused about what the "On the top left side of the raised area is a raised oblong detail that protrudes outwards." is referring to...

I like how the chest coloration is written to allow for a slight range.

I also think it is important that we make this L2 line item optional, which it is... based on how it is written with the word "may" --- Buckles may have silver paint chipping showing gunmetal underneath the silver.

I would say if we are all in agreement with the color range of the overall chest armor, we can also update the helmet text from

"The helmet is to be painted in matte black  a very dark grey to match the armor. Greenish undertones in certain lighting conditions is acceptable. An acceptable range of colors include RLM 70 to Sherwin Williams SW6994 Greenblack "

The only item I'm needing elaboration on is the line of text in my opening statement. I'm not sure what it is referring to, which means either it needs a slightly improved description or I'm dense... hahah. Help me out on this one...

 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Thanks Shane, that helps narrow our paint focus.  TeaJay I'ts the raised area on the left where you indicate. Its a direct copy over of the existing muddy armor text, all of our re-used texts for uniform bits align across the board. We did full rewrites on scouts and troopers so they all matched as far as text. 

I went back through the images I captured before I had to leave on my road trip and found this one. We see black straps and buckles with silver chipped buckle front edge. The armor is a very dark green/grey. The helmet, at least in this high speed blur shot, doesn't even look like its the same color as the armor. The black straps are definitely darker than the armor it lays against. 

Yesterday I started painting samples, using model paints and Montana Gold paint I have on hand. I ordered some other paint and it will be here tomorrow.  Ill get those samples painted , and photograph under various light conditions and get those posted as soon as I can.  

 

Im going to update the helmet text. Look this over, if we all agreee that the text is right and I dont have any typos we can clear and lock to move to the back armor. 

Chest Armor change log 1.2

Chest Armor

Chest armor matches visual references.

Accurate shape/design to front of chest.

There is an indented area around the outer edge of the center flat section.

Buckles attach to upper chest plate. Buckles are gunmetal or silver with black recesses. 

Shoulder straps are affixed to the chest plate at the buckle. The shoulder strap is black. It is permitted to be made of cast flexible urethane or other flexible material. 

To the lower left side of the center flat panel is a recessed area angled inward from bottom to top with a raised rectangle greeblie and a recessed horizontal elongated oval. The elongated oval is painted Humbrol red #19 . The raised rectangle greeblie is painted silver or light grey. 

Left of the recessed area is a raised square that extends from the center to the curved side of the armor. A white or silver rectangle is present on this raised square.

On the top left side of the raised area is a raised oblong detail that protrudes outwards.

Chest shall be painted a very dark grey. Greenish undertones in certain lighting conditions is acceptable. An acceptable range of colors include RLM 70 to Sherwin Williams SW6994 Greenblack.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Buckles have black recess on upper narrow section and the lower recess shall expose the chest armor.

Buckles may have silver paint chipping showing gunmetal underneath the silver.