Imperial Army Trooper - Andor - CRL Discussion

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

If we agree on the text above we can clear and loc, then move on. 

[TeaJay[TX]]

46 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

If we agree on the text above we can clear and loc, then move on. 

I'm good with the text in your recent post for the chest armor. Should be ready to head to backplate...

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

I have updated the first page CRL draft with the chest text.  Thank you all for the input. That was a good solid honest discussion and Im grateful for it. 

I want to circle back to Alexandres posts with his prototype tunic. Personally I am all for having a "blouse and boots only" version of the troops, since they clearly played critical roles in the series as well as the Empires occupation. 

I looked at Alexandre's tunic and the saved ref images. Does the lower pocket feature the box construction? It looks like a simple pocket on the arms and chest If I am looking at it right. 

I would like to update the tunic text to include the following:

Four pockets are present on the jacket front, covered by large flapped closures. Lower pockets are larger than the ones on the upper chest.  Lower pocket seams rest on the same seam as the end of the tunic. Pocket flaps shall have a double row of stitching. 

PLMK regarding box construction, I feel that is an L2 requirement. Ive made those and I dont like making them. 

Without going to far off track, I do see the line in the one image going across the front of the pants. Some of my old original  BDUs from the 80s had that line, something to do with the contstuction and how the legs fit. Not all had it at the time, and the later BDUs did not, but commercial "ripoff" BDUs have it.

Once we fix up the text for the tunic, we will get the back sorted . 

[TeaJay[TX]]

@Blackwatch -- What are your thoughts on having the "blouse and boots only" variant being a separate costume from the armored version? To me it seems like a separate costume similar to TIE Reserve and TIE Pilot.  So perhaps Imperial Army Aldhani Soldier (unarmored) and Imperial Army Aldhani Soldier (armored). I would imagine the armored version would include the softcap and helmeted variations.  Not sure if that's the plan or if the detachment is planning to make it all one in the same. 

The reason I mention this is -- things like the pocket flap having double row stitching on the shoulders and upper portion of the tunic will not matter as much with the armored variant as it is going to be covered up by the chest and shoulder bells and bicep armor. 

I can see it being a L1 requirement for the blouse and boots version and perhaps a L2 requirement for the armored version... or perhaps to keep it simple and make it an L1 across the board. I'm all for strict detail at the L1 option if people are in agreement. 

Just talking through it as I type... thoughts?

 

 

[bubuc44]

39 minutes ago, TeaJay said:

@Blackwatch -- What are your thoughts on having the "blouse and boots only" variant being a separate costume from the armored version? To me it seems like a separate costume similar to TIE Reserve and TIE Pilot.  So perhaps Imperial Army Aldhani Soldier (unarmored) and Imperial Army Aldhani Soldier (armored). I would imagine the armored version would include the softcap and helmeted variations.  Not sure if that's the plan or if the detachment is planning to make it all one in the same. 

The reason I mention this is -- things like the pocket flap having double row stitching on the shoulders and upper portion of the tunic will not matter as much with the armored variant as it is going to be covered up by the chest and shoulder bells and bicep armor. 

I can see it being a L1 requirement for the blouse and boots version and perhaps a L2 requirement for the armored version... or perhaps to keep it simple and make it an L1 across the board. I'm all for strict detail at the L1 option if people are in agreement. 

Just talking through it as I type... thoughts?

 

 

Amazing work @Blackwatch !! 

great point ! agree with you @TeaJay at 100%

And knowing the fact that there is also potentially a ¨waitress¨version on the army trooper  

 

 

 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Im in agreement here and its a discussion we've had at Staff level, regarding Tabs and how to manage them.  

To me its the same as the Armored Officer, its separated from the traditional officer, although they share the same base olive uniform.  I would like to write that seperately, with what we have already written.  Also, it will allow people to kit up with soft parts while armor is in progress, exactly as the RP is to the TIE.  

I think that for across the board, and since we have makers already starting this, to have the double row of stitching written in at the start. Most of our flightsuit makers already do this. This is just another flavor of fligthsuit. 

What about the box pocket construction? for me thats an L2 for all versions. 

[TeaJay[TX]]

1 hour ago, Blackwatch said:

Im in agreement here and its a discussion we've had at Staff level, regarding Tabs and how to manage them.  

To me its the same as the Armored Officer, its separated from the traditional officer, although they share the same base olive uniform.  I would like to write that seperately, with what we have already written.  Also, it will allow people to kit up with soft parts while armor is in progress, exactly as the RP is to the TIE.  

I think that for across the board, and since we have makers already starting this, to have the double row of stitching written in at the start. Most of our flightsuit makers already do this. This is just another flavor of fligthsuit. 

What about the box pocket construction? for me thats an L2 for all versions. 

For the box pocket discussion, are you wanting to specify so that people don't have a different shape to the bottom of the pocket?

For example: 

Making sure people have "type A" or "Box Pleat" without the pleating (from diagram) rather than someone accidently placing "type B" style pocket on their tunic? Also making sure they do not have a rounded style pocket, like: 

Or are you referring to the flap being fully rectangular rather than someone trying to use this somewhat angled look?

Here's Andor:

Or maybe I'm missing a more specific point. So I'll defer back to you for clarification...

[Wompet[TX]]

2 hours ago, TeaJay said:

For the box pocket discussion, are you wanting to specify so that people don't have a different shape to the bottom of the pocket?

For example: 

Making sure people have "type A" or "Box Pleat" without the pleating (from diagram) rather than someone accidently placing "type B" style pocket on their tunic? Also making sure they do not have a rounded style pocket?

[snip]

Or maybe I'm missing a more specific point. So I'll defer back to you for clarification...

I think he was asking: Are the lower pockets box or accordion style, or basic patch pockets?

Referencing this picture that you posted:

They are basic patch pockets, with no gussets (rectangular in shape, with flaps and pockets having sharp corners).

[TeaJay[TX]]

15 hours ago, Wompet said:

I think he was asking: Are the lower pockets box or accordion style, or basic patch pockets?

Referencing this picture that you posted:

They are basic patch pockets, with no gussets (rectangular in shape, with flaps and pockets having sharp corners).

Makes sense! My focus was everywhere else. Yes, they appear to be simple pockets without any adornments/enhancements to allow for more room to store items, etc. If anything maybe the flaps have velcro to keep them closed. 

The simple style pockets used on the tunic should be considered L1 in my book, but all for hearing out @Blackwatch's thoughts on why L2 is where he's thinking.

 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

That was my question, no bellows or expansions or anything like on BDU pockets.  Its a plain, simple, boring pocket.  Ok, we are set then. 

lets have a look at the back armor. I know there are differences in how the armor appears out on the checkpoint when Andor and company join the local Garrison group. 

Here is what I will refer to. The back armor boxes are different colors, and the mounting points for the straps are different.  The silver boxes look like a very sloppy repaint. This is the Garrison Checkpoint Guard. 

This is Andor and Company (now referred to as "hero".)

 

Back Armor Change Log 1.0

Back Armor - Hero with hat. 

Back plate is painted field gray with moderate weathering.  to match the chest armor and helmet. 
Back plate has a collar that extends upwards and tapers to the chest plate.
Chest and back plate meet at the sides.
Black foam extends from the arm openings.
There are 2 hose connectors located at the top of the back plate approximately centered above each rectangular cut out/greeblie.                                                      Hose connecters are painted gunmetal grey. 
Back has two large cut out recesses with vent details and greeblies inside.
The walls and floor of the recesses shall be matte field gray   painted to match the rest of the armor.  
Each recess has different and specific set of boxes inside.                                                The recess has boxes inside that are painted gunmetal grey.  The vents at the top of the recesses are painted black inside. 
Bottom left features a smaller rectangle cut out with the left side stepped. The floor of the cut out and the walls inside match the color of the armor. 
Half circle indent detail beneath the backpack section must be present.
There is a long thin raised greeblie positioned central and below the 2 large recess.
There is a small raised circle greeblie positioned central and below the above named greeblie.
There is a raised slot on each shoulder for the straps to fit into.                                      The raised slot is painted gunmetal grey. 
Shoulder straps are matte olive green with moderate weathering  black and are affixed to the chest plate at the buckle.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
The hose fittings are angled forward. and approximately the same size as the hoses.
There is a black fabric or leather loop in between the hose fittings where the respirator strap can pass through.
Black fabric or leather loop drop down from the bottom of the back plate through which belts must pass through.
Green color is similar in shade to Pantone 350U overlaid with Pantone 433U.

 

Back Armor Change Log 1.0

Back Armor  (Garrison Checkpoint version with helmet or hat)

Back plate is painted field gray with moderate weathering.  to match the chest armor and helmet. 
Back plate has a collar that extends upwards and tapers to the chest plate.
Chest and back plate meet at the sides.
Black foam extends from the arm openings.
There are 2 hose connectors located at the top of the back plate approximately centered above each rectangular cut out/greeblie.
Back has two large cut out recesses with vent details and greeblies inside, all painted silver. Silver does not leave the edge of the box opening.  The recesses at the top of the boxes are painted black inside each cell. 
The walls and floor of the recesses shall be matte field gray   painted to match the rest of the armor.  
Each recess has different and specific set of boxes inside.                                                The recess has boxes inside that are painted gunmetal grey. 
Bottom left features a smaller rectangle cut out with the left side stepped. The floor of the cut out and the walls inside match the color of the armor. 
Half circle indent detail beneath the backpack section must be present.
There is a long thin raised greeblie positioned central and below the 2 large recess.
There is a small raised circle greeblie positioned central and below the above named greeblie.                                                                                                                          There is a raised slot on each shoulder for the straps to fit into.                                      The raised slots are painted silver. 
Shoulder straps are matte olive green with moderate weathering  black and are affixed to the chest plate at the buckle.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
The hose fittings are angled forward. and approximately the same size as the hoses.
There is a black fabric or leather loop in between the hose fittings where the respirator strap can pass through.
Black fabric or leather loop drop down from the bottom of the back plate through which belts must pass through.
Green color is similar in shade to Pantone 350U overlaid with Pantone 433U.

One point we will need to circle back to is to align the chest armor buckle paint color; hero guntmetal, checkpoint silver. 

[Vanedor[501st]]

What about the "hero" version instead of "Andor & cie"? Would be coherent with the classic ANH TK costumes.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Vanedor

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Sounds resonable to me.  In staff discussion we have discussed tabs to keep it all straight. 

Im going to go up into the text I just wrote and rename them "hero" .Thank you Simon! 

[TeaJay[TX]]

Here's a great shot to denote "Hero" vs "Stunt" for the backplate greeblies -- softcaps or helmets should not dictate the use of silver vs gunmetal color... it appears that Andor and crew are gunmetal and both softcaps and helmeted "Stunt" / extras are silver...

 

Front three are Andor and team -- Rear 4 are extras (stunt troops)

 

Here's another shot.

[TeaJay[TX]]

Also want to denote the 2 hose connectors that rest on the top of the backplate are angled, unlike what we see in the Mudtrooper CRL image... see how these sit flat:

 

The Aldhani variant sits at an angle, as seen here:

This is something that @fb501, who was on-set, pointed out as well, the are sloped towards the wearer rather than sticking straight up.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Back plate change log 1.1.

I have altered the text so many times the forum page isnt respondng correctly to my edits. 

im  pasting it direct from Notepad here to see if it will line up correctly. The new Hero term is used as well. 

 

Change log 1.1, minor edits only. 

Back Plate, Hero version with hat.

Back plate is painted field gray with moderate weathering.  to match the chest armor and helmet. 
Back plate has a collar that extends upwards and tapers to the chest plate.
Chest and back plate meet at the sides.
Black foam extends from the arm openings.
There are 2 hose connectors located at the top of the back plate approximately centered above each rectangular cut out/greeblie.                                                      
Hose connecters are painted gunmetal grey. 
Back has two large cut out recesses with vent details and greeblies inside.
The walls and floor of the recesses shall be matte field gray  painted to match the rest of the armor.  
Each recess has different and specific set of boxes inside.                                                
The recess has boxes inside that are painted gunmetal grey.  The vents at the top of the recesses may be painted a contrasting dark grey inside. 
Bottom left features a smaller rectangle cut out with the left side stepped. The floor of the cut out and the walls inside match the color of the armor. 
Half circle indent detail beneath the backpack section must be present.
There is a long thin raised greeblie positioned central and below the 2 large recess.
There is a small raised circle greeblie positioned central and below the above named greeblie.
There is a raised slot on each shoulder for the straps to fit into.                                      
The raised slot is painted gunmetal grey. 
Shoulder straps are matte olive green with moderate weathering  black and are affixed to the chest plate at the buckle. The front buckle shall match the raised slot color. 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
The hose fittings are angled forward. and approximately the same size as the hoses.
There is a black fabric or leather loop in between the hose fittings where the respirator strap can pass through.
Black fabric or leather loop drop down from the bottom of the back plate through which belts must pass through.
Green color is similar in shade to Pantone 350U overlaid with Pantone 433U.

Back Armor Change Log 1.0

Back Armor  (Garrison Checkpoint version with helmet or hat)

Back plate is painted field gray with moderate weathering.  to match the chest armor and helmet. 
Back plate has a collar that extends upwards and tapers to the chest plate.
Chest and back plate meet at the sides.
Black foam extends from the arm openings.
There are 2 hose connectors located at the top of the back plate approximately centered above each rectangular cut out/greeblie. The hose connectors are painted silver. 
Back has two large cut out recesses with vent details and greeblies inside, all painted silver. Silver does not leave the edge of the box opening.  
The vents at the top of the boxes are painted black inside each cell. 
The walls and floor of the recesses shall be matte field gray   painted to match the rest of the armor.  
Each recess has different and specific set of boxes inside.                                                                                                The recess has boxes inside that are painted gunmetal grey. 
Bottom left features a smaller rectangle cut out with the left side stepped. The floor of the cut out and the walls inside match the color of the armor. 
Half circle indent detail beneath the backpack section must be present.
There is a long thin raised greeblie positioned central and below the 2 large recess.
There is a small raised circle greeblie positioned central and below the above named greeblie.                                                                                                                          
There is a raised slot on each shoulder for the straps to fit into.  The raised slots are painted silver. 
Shoulder straps are matte olive green with moderate weathering  black and are affixed to the chest plate at the buckle. The buckle shall match the raised slot color. 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
The hose fittings are angled forward. and approximately the same size as the hoses.
There is a black fabric or leather loop in between the hose fittings where the respirator strap can pass through.
Black fabric or leather loop drop down from the bottom of the back plate through which belts must pass through.
Green color is similar in shade to Pantone 350U overlaid with Pantone 433U.

 

 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

In that last photo posted it appears the hose connectors match the color of the strap buckle and raised slot. 

We know from Deathtrooper paint options that it gets confusing, so Im going to try to write this as simply as possible. 

How about this rework:

 

There are 2 hose connectors located at the top of the back plate approximately centered above each rectangular cut out/greeblie.                                                      
Hose connecters are painted to match the strap raised slot and strap buckle color. Acceptable colors are silver or guntmetal, but mix and match is not permitted. 

 

[TeaJay[TX]]

9 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

In that last photo posted it appears the hose connectors match the color of the strap buckle and raised slot. 

We know from Deathtrooper paint options that it gets confusing, so Im going to try to write this as simply as possible. 

How about this rework:

 

There are 2 hose connectors located at the top of the back plate approximately centered above each rectangular cut out/greeblie.                                                      
Hose connecters are painted to match the strap raised slot and strap buckle color. Acceptable colors are silver or guntmetal, but mix and match is not permitted. 

 

This is perfect. Having the note about not mix/matching is needed in the text. I like this!

 

I also like the L2 addition for the angled hose fittings.

[TeaJay[TX]]

Another addition, perhaps for L2 -- The divots in the backplate... I know for my L2 Tanktrooper, I have these.

Here's the two squares on the right side and the circle as seen on the Shoretrooper and other troopers as well...

Aldhani (this shot is at runtime 11:11 in episode 6):

Ferrix:

Rogue One Shoretrooper:

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Those are in the ICAT trooper as well. The mudtrooper wasnt seen , so we didnt know as much about it. I believe Jim Tripons armor has it and Ill check my ICAT back plate files tonight when I get home. I believe they are there.  I find it interesting this detail is there but the four raised blocks along the top edge of the boxes are gone.  

 

Proposed text for L2:

 

There is a recessed hole approximately .31" (7.8mm) above the top left corner of the left recessed box. 

There are two indented squares approximately  .25"x .25" (5mmx5mm) aligned vertically above the right upper corner of the left recessed box. 

[TeaJay[TX]]

6 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

Those are in the ICAT trooper as well. The mudtrooper wasnt seen , so we didnt know as much about it. I believe Jim Tripons armor has it and Ill check my ICAT back plate files tonight when I get home. I believe they are there.  I find it interesting this detail is there but the four raised blocks along the top edge of the boxes are gone.  

 

Proposed text for L2:

 

There is a recessed hole approximately .31" (7.8mm) above the top left corner of the left recessed box. 

There are two indented squares approximately  .25"x .25" (5mmx5mm) aligned vertically above the right upper corner of the left recessed box. 

I was just thinking the same thing, those raised pieces that sit on the edge... I tried hunting them down on the Ferrix and Aldhani armors and no luck yet... I'm still on the hunt for them. They're so freakin' small.

[TeaJay[TX]]

Bingo! At least for "Hero"

 

Ferrix (Maybe?):

[Vanedor[501st]]

I see the term "Garrison Checkpoint version"  mentioned, does it mean that we don't assume the others armored troopers we see elsewhere (like near the lake, or in the vault) are the same?

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Were going to need to limit how many versions we have. We need to get good grabs of the others that Simon mentioned and have a good look at them as well, for any major differences.

In staff discussion its already been mentioned that our paint options are going to give builders fits, as seen with our Deathtrooper and mudtrooper applications. Unless we can come down to some major differentiation point on these guys, essentially 'background extra #8 on the left" two variants should cover the Aldhani versions with the buckles and backpacks. Ferrix will probably be separate, but no guarantees on that.  Our staff is leaning towards only two versions, Aldhani and Ferrix, so we may have some rewrite ahead of us again. 

We may just rename the Garrison Checkpoint to "Aldhani Garrison".  We need to cover the soft / no armor version separately. 

I can add four raised blocks for hero version to the next changelog. 

 

[TeaJay[TX]]

1 hour ago, Blackwatch said:

Were going to need to limit how many versions we have. We need to get good grabs of the others that Simon mentioned and have a good look at them as well, for any major differences.

In staff discussion its already been mentioned that our paint options are going to give builders fits, as seen with our Deathtrooper and mudtrooper applications. Unless we can come down to some major differentiation point on these guys, essentially 'background extra #8 on the left" two variants should cover the Aldhani versions with the buckles and backpacks. Ferrix will probably be separate, but no guarantees on that.  Our staff is leaning towards only two versions, Aldhani and Ferrix, so we may have some rewrite ahead of us again. 

We may just rename the Garrison Checkpoint to "Aldhani Garrison".  We need to cover the soft / no armor version separately. 

I can add four raised blocks for hero version to the next changelog. 

 

I suggest that the Aldhani and Ferrix troopers be their own separate costume CRLs.

If the Aldhani "Stunt" and "Hero" differences are only the silver vs gunmetal paints, it may not be worth separating them out. Just give members the option to select all silver or all gunmetal on their coloration for that specific costume.

My suggestion would be to have CRLs broken down like this:

• Imperial Army - Aldhani Soldier (Armored)
  • Includes two tabs, one for softcap and one for helmeted
• Imperial Army - Aldhani Soldier (Unarmored)
• Imperial Army - Ferrix Soldier
  
   
• Imperial Army - Aldhani Culinary Concierge - [assuming you all want to pursue that one]

 

Troops from "the garrison" versus troops from "Alkenzi" seem to be more-so used for the cover-story for Andor and crew.. if they use that cover-story, it's safe to assume that the uniforms are identical standard-issue or at least very very similar... I personally have watched, paused, and recapped episodes 5 and 6 at least 14 times at this point and outside of those minor coloration details for the "Hero" armors using gunmetal and acting like they are from "Alkenzi" and not "the garrison"... which they never truly get confronted about except slightly questioned by Jayhold (17:00 into episode 6)... I have the feeling that all the Aldhani armored soldiers are meant to have an identical look, sans the helmets vs softcaps.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Ill bring the options to staff and see which way we want to proceed. I like your thinking, I thik we may also make the apron an option, simliar to the guy in the comm shack.  I might not get back to this tonight, but Ill pick it up again in the morning. I feel as if we are making good progress overall.