New CRL Development - Mud Trooper

[jimmiroquai[501st]]

A lot of them also use the Rogue one TK/ST/DT gloves.  Without the velcro at the back for the hand plates though

 

[JAFO[TX]]

I think wording for the boots needs a tweak. Most notably remove the reference to Kersey boots as it is incorrect.

 

Here's my thinking...

 

Smooth non-textured, leather or leather-like material. Style is same as Soviet Officer boots.

Boots should form fit to the calf and not be loose.

 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Boots do not have a zipper.

 

OPTIONAL Level three certification (if applicable):

• Boots are made of leather.

◦ Not vinyl or PVC.

• Exact replicas of Soviet Officer Boots

 

In regards to the gloves it is known that the R1 style were used but these were mostly by characters rather than standard MTs. I think it would be good to include a line such as "R1 style gloves are also acceptable for approval"

[amcclary[TX]]

Wondering where the buckles at the top of the boots is coming from?  Do we have references to this?  I went through all my reference photos and couldn't find any.  I have the WW2 Russian Officer boots and the soles, tops of the boots, and stitching all seems to match the high res photos I have.  I can see the tops of both side in this photo and don't see them?

 

These are WW2 era Soviet Officer boots and they don't have any buckle for adjusting at the top and the soles and stitching on the sides match the photos.


Other than that, I think the description is good.

[JAFO[TX]]

4 hours ago, amcclary said:

Wondering where the buckles at the top of the boots is coming from?  Do we have references to this?  I went through all my reference photos and couldn't find any.  I have the WW2 Russian Officer boots and the soles, tops of the boots, and stitching all seems to match the high res photos I have.  I can see the tops of both side in this photo and don't see them?

 

These are WW2 era Soviet Officer boots and they don't have any buckle for adjusting at the top and the soles and stitching on the sides match the photos.


Other than that, I think the description is good.

There are four images I can reference to that show the buckle - Han, Val, Medic and generic MT. The last two can be seen in the SOLO Visual Guide. Buckles were the exception rather than the rule but they did exist.

 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

@JAFO can you show those boot buckle/straps specifically?  can't see them myself either but if you can point em out that would be great!  thx!

[amcclary[TX]]

"There are four images I can reference to that show the buckle - Han, Val, Medic and generic MT. The last two can be seen in the SOLO Visual Guide. Buckles were the exception rather than the rule but they did exist. "

I am looking really closely at the photos in the visual guide and all I am seeing is folds of fabric from the pants bunched up at the top of the boot not buckles.  Do you have higher resolution photos of the shots in the book or others that show these buckles?  This may have been another inconsistency in the costumes because actually finding Russian officer boots with a buckle at the top is very rare.   The aviators worn ones with a buckle but it was pretty large and would easily be seen in the photos.  There are photos of troopers that clearly don't have these buckles.  They clearly are not on the ones in the photos of the Trooper used for the standee.  I have super high res photos of these. (Higher than what was printed in the standee.)

I think this should be an option in the CRL if its put in. 

[ISBEAR[501st]]

On 6/7/2018 at 10:09 PM, izzi said:

Shoulder Bells

• Each shoulder bell is a mirror image of the other.
• The detailing of each shoulder bell is asymmetrical.
• Shoulders should have a longer flat edge that covers top of bicep with a shorter flat edge that connects to chest armor
• Shallow grooves are present in a pattern matching the photo.
• Shoulders are painted olive grey with moderate weathering.

Jacket

• Jacket is Olive Drab Belgian M64 Style.
• Pockets shall have no flaps visible.
• Bottom of jacket shall hang between upper and mid thigh.
• Visible parts of jacket shall be moderately weathered.
• Optional: If jacket is worn without shoulder armor, an imperial cog patch must be sewn onto each shoulder

 

Is the shoulder bells optional? If so, should't biceps be optional aswelll?
If it is based on the picture with solo without shoulder and biceps, it also should be without cape.

if the patch needs to be present without shoulder armor, it should also be some kind of approval option. If not maybe put is as a level two.

 

I find this text a little confusing or under explained, just a thought.  

[VadersWingman[501st]]

1 hour ago, amcclary said:

"There are four images I can reference to that show the buckle - Han, Val, Medic and generic MT. The last two can be seen in the SOLO Visual Guide. Buckles were the exception rather than the rule but they did exist. "

I am looking really closely at the photos in the visual guide and all I am seeing is folds of fabric from the pants bunched up at the top of the boot not buckles.  Do you have higher resolution photos of the shots in the book or others that show these buckles?  This may have been another inconsistency in the costumes because actually finding Russian officer boots with a buckle at the top is very rare.   The aviators worn ones with a buckle but it was pretty large and would easily be seen in the photos.  There are photos of troopers that clearly don't have these buckles.  They clearly are not on the ones in the photos of the Trooper used for the standee.  I have super high res photos of these. (Higher than what was printed in the standee.)

I think this should be an option in the CRL if its put in. 

From the visual dictionary

https://imgur.com/gallery/o07BVFf

[amcclary[TX]]

Jacket

• Jacket is Olive Drab Belgian M64 Style.
• Pockets shall have no flaps visible.
• Bottom of jacket shall hang between upper and mid thigh. 
• Visible parts of jacket shall be moderately weathered.
• Optional: If jacket is worn without shoulder armor, an imperial cog patch must be sewn onto each shoulder

I think we have established that the jacket isn't a Belgian M64 so I think putting this in there is going to confuse people.  We know it was something custom.

I would go with a description like this:

•   The jacket is a custom made jacket made from a German Field Olive Grey Denim like weave
•  The jacket has only two visible pockets which are on the upper breast toward the outside
•   It has a seam near the waist and extends down to to the upper to mid thigh
• There is a zipper which extends from the top collar down to the middle seam, this zipper is hidden.
• The bottom of the jacket is squared off and the sleeves have cuffs similar to a German Elite M32 Officer
• The collar at the top is squared off at the top in a mandarin style
• A cog patch should be on each shoulder if the shoulder armor is not worn.
• All visible parts of the jacket should be weathered heavily and muddy.

If we wanted to make it easier/cheaper for people, then a level one could go something like this. 

• The jacket is dark grey or olive grey in color.  If a dark grey is used,  it should be dusted lightly with an olive green paint.
• The bottom of the jacket is squared off and the sleeves have cuffs similar to a German Elite M32 Officer
• There should be no pocket flaps and the jacket should extend down to the mid to upper thigh.
• If you are not using Olive Grey then all visible parts of the jacket should be heavily weathered with brown and light grey mud.
• A level one must be worn with armor and the cloak.

Note that the actual color of material of the jacket becomes a lot less apparent once the jacket is heavily weathered with mud.

 

 

Shoulder Bells

• Each shoulder bell is a mirror image of the other.
• The detailing of each shoulder bell is asymmetrical.
• Shoulders should have a longer flat edge that covers top of bicep with a shorter flat edge that connects to chest armor
• Shallow grooves are present in a pattern matching the photo.
• Shoulders are painted olive grey with moderate weathering.
• The part of the shoulder bell with the arched line at the bottom goes toward the back of the costume.

 

 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Let's reel it in a bit guys.  We are currently discussing the BOOTS and GLOVES specifically.  Try to keep focus there.

@amcclary the jacket description you quoted has been heavily modified from the original you copied (see previous posts on page 5).  This is what was most recently discussed and no alternative feedback had been given regarding editing it at the time.  I haven't updated it quite yet on the original post just yet (may create a separate locked post to manage what the group has accepted as a whole and leave the original post alone).

Tunic/Jacket

A long-sleeved, Olive Grey, jacket that falls between upper and mid thigh.
Has a mandarin style collar with an open front
Has two panels on either side of the front, hidden zipper, extending to the bottom of the jacket with a width of approximately 6" in width.
Has a stitched "cuff" on the sleeve that extends to around the middle of the forearm.
If side pockets are present, they are built into the jacket, with no covering flaps present.
No outer stitched pockets are acceptable unless they are fully covered by the armor.
May have code cylinder pockets on both outside panels of the jacket from about half way between the top and bottom on the arm hole.
Shall be moderately to heavily weathered.

Optional Level 2:

Jacket is made of an Olive Grey 12-14 oz Bull denim Twill material.
There is an imperial cog patch sewn on each shoulder.
There are code cylinder pockets on both outside panels of the jacket from about half way between the top and bottom on the arm hole.

[amcclary[TX]]

Sorry Raider, missed that one.  I just saw the one ISBear quoted.  Moving on.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

2 hours ago, amcclary said:

Sorry Raider, missed that one.  I just saw the one ISBear quoted.  Moving on.

That's alright man!  No worries.Let's wrap up the boots and gloves and proceed to the other pieces.  When we are through it all, we can address any additional concerns/suggestions in a review of the final proposal.  Cool?

So to recap where we are at on the boots and gloves...with the boots we have the original proposal meshed with @JAFO suggestions.  Yellow are some pieces in question (some by me).  At current, no Spec Ops CRLs have Level 3 requirements, so I've blended the suggestions into Level 2 (for now).  Feel free to provide input and suggestions for discussion.  THANKS!!!

 

BOOTS:

Knee High black leather or leather like material.
Jackboots  style.
Free of laces, decorative stitching, buckles on the instep or any other embellishments.
Boots may have a single adjustment strap at the top outside of the boot. This need not be functional.
Zippers on the inside of the boot are acceptable, so long as they are concealed.
If the zipper is not covered by vinyl/ leather, it is painted black.  *Keep this line or remove altogether?*
Boots shall be tall enough to fit both shin straps.
Boots shall be heavily weathered

Smooth non-textured, leather or leather-like material. Style is same as Soviet Officer boots.

Boots should form fit to the calf and not be loose.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Boots do not have a zipper.
• Boots are made of leather.
• Not vinyl or PVC.
• Exact replicas of Soviet Officer Boots.

GLOVES:

Black gloves with black leather or leather-like material on the palm, thumb, and forefinger.
The black oval detail is aligned with the index finger of each hand.
Gloves have a U shaped velcro closure.
Gloves shall have all logos removed.
Highlander brand special ops gloves are best match to reference.

R1 style gloves are also acceptable for approval.

 

[areilly]

On 8/8/2018 at 11:13 AM, Raider said:

Boots

Jackboot style, knee high, black leather or leather like material.
“Kerseyâ€� or “jackbootâ€� style. 
Free of laces, decorative stitching, buckles on the instep or any other embellishments.
Boots may have a single adjustment strap at the top outside of the boot. This need not be functional.
Zippers on the inside of the boot are acceptable, so long as they are concealed.
If the zipper is not covered by vinyl/ leather, it is painted black.
Boots shall be tall enough to fit both shin straps.
Boots shall be heavily weathered

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Boots are made of leather.

Gloves

Black gloves with black leather or leather-like material on the palm, thumb, and forefinger.
The black oval detail is aligned with the index finger of each hand.
Gloves have a U shaped velcro closure around the wrist.
Gloves shall have all logos removed.
Highlander brand special ops gloves are best match to reference.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Gloves are Highlander Special Ops gloves #GL033-BK, or an authentic replication thereof.

 

My 2 cents in red above.

Regarding the boots, there might need to be some disambiguation here to avoid confusion with riding boots style of Imperial officer's boots, although I'd think that for level 1, riding boots could be acceptable? There seems to be enough evidence that at least some of the boots had top adjustment straps, so they should be listed as an optional item. Otherwise that style is pretty generic so I think there a wide range of possible matches.

For the gloves, I'm not sure what you meant by the oval detail? Also for level 1, maybe we could loosen it up a bit to just black gloves with leather palms and optional leather on the thumbs/fingers? Browsing through random "tactical" and mechanics gloves online, there are more that have a cloth back and leather palms, so it might make it easier for people to source them if they have difficulty sourcing the Highlander brand gloves, while still looking reasonably close to reference from a distance. Then level 2 will be the screen-used model or a close copy. While they're not difficult to get now, they might not be in the future.

 

(Edit: I was typing this up as Raider added his reply, So I was going by the previous post - I think my only additional comment is that "exact replica of soviet officers boots" might be a little too specific, and that knee-high jackboots should be as specific as needed)

[RAIDER[COTG]]

I have created a locked/pinned "Proposal" thread for us to move items we have covered to so that they are pulled cleanly out of the discussion.  Hopefully that helps us see the final product compared to the original proposal/outline.

See here: http://forum.specops501st.com/index.php?/topic/6015-new-crl-proposal-mudtrooper/

@areilly thank you for the input!  We will get others input on those suggestions for the gloves and boots.  You mention the top straps/buckles on the boots.  I cannot see that in the reference pics for the life of me though @JAFO mentions it as well.  Can you guys point that out specifically in a reference pic for me (and @amcclary) please?  Thanks!

 

[areilly]

Here’s two - left is the Val promo shot, right is from the Solo Offical Guide, p. 43

[Magyarsoldat[TX]]

Has there been any work on a mud trooper officer crl?

[ISBEAR[501st]]

Does this settle the boot and gloves questions  then? some leeway/options in terms of details for level 1, and level 2 gets more spesific and accurate.

Then what's next?

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Does this settle the boot and gloves questions  then? some leeway/options in terms of details for level 1, and level 2 gets more spesific and accurate.
Then what's next?

If there is no more input, I can piece together what we have and proceed to next sometime tomorrow to give people one last bit of input. Thanks again all!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JAFO[TX]]

12 hours ago, Raider said:

 

If there is no more input, I can piece together what we have and proceed to next sometime tomorrow to give people one last bit of input. Thanks again all!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I vote let’s go to next items on the list.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

On 8/10/2018 at 1:18 PM, Raider said:

BOOTS:

Jackboot style, knee high black leather or leather like material.
Free of laces, decorative stitching, buckles on the instep or any other embellishments.
Boots may have a single adjustment strap at the top outside of the boot. This need not be functional.
Zippers on the inside of the boot are acceptable, so long as they are concealed.
Boots shall be tall enough to fit both shin straps.
Boots shall be heavily weathered

Smooth non-textured, leather or leather-like material. Style is same as Soviet Officer boots.

Boots should form fit to the calf and not be loose.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Boots do not have a zipper.
• Boots are made of leather.
• Not vinyl or PVC.
• Exact replicas of Soviet Officer Boots.

GLOVES:

Black gloves with black leather or leather-like material on the palm, thumb, and forefinger.
The black oval detail is aligned with the index finger of each hand.
Gloves have a U shaped velcro closure around the wrist.
Gloves shall have all logos removed.
Highlander brand special ops gloves are best match to reference.

R1 style gloves are also acceptable for approval.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Gloves are Highlander Special Ops gloves #GL033-BK, or an authentic replication thereof.

READ ABOVE.  If no major issues, I will move to the pinned post and hold till final review.

 

Next up, parka and belts…here is what was initially submitted.

 

PARKA:

• Russian Plash Palatka Style.
• Parka is Dyed or Painted black.
• Metal grommets shall be painted or covered with leather to mimic leather grommets.
• Tied or otherwise attached under the chest armor and worn to cover the back plate.
• Parka shall be heavily weathered.

Optional Level 2 requirement:

• Ring Grommets shall be leather to match reference photos.

 

 

OFFICER BELT:

• The belt is constructed from a non-textured leather or a leather-like material.
• Approximately 2" (50.8 mm) in width, up to 3" (76.2 mm) is acceptable.
• There are no loops on the belt.
• A single large snap or rivet is visible approximately 1" (25.4 mm) from the buckle.
• The belt may be worn with the snap to the right or left of the wearer.
• The buckle is a standard officer buckle.
• Buckle is adorned with an Imperial Code Disk at the center.
• Please refer to the Imperial Buckle reference page for information on accurate and inaccurate style buckles.
• Two boxes shall be present on either side of buckle. Dimensions are approximately 2 1/2" (63.5 mm) by 3 1/2" (88.9 mm) by 1" (25.4 mm) thick.
• Boxes shall be painted olive grey and moderately weathered.
• Belt shall be weathered appropriately

LOWER BELT:

• Belt is black and is made from two nylon straps sewn together with a zig-zag pattern which is approximately 7.6 cm wide.
• Belt boxes options:
  • Option A. two thin, two medium and one long tabbed box.
  • Option B Two thin, two medium one hinged drop box.
• Boxes are olive grey grey with moderate weathering.
• Belt shall be worn loose across lower abdomen.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

P.S. Keep the discussion going and focused on these pieces (parka, belts).  You guys are much appreciated.  I am currently in the process of selling/buying homes with closing set for this Friday.  My ability to get on much this week and next may be limited, BUT we can keep the talking points going and I will keep an eye on what is suggested.  THANKS AGAIN!!!

[amcclary[TX]]

On 8/8/2018 at 6:19 PM, JAFO said:

OFFICER BELT:

• The belt is constructed from a non-textured leather or a leather-like material.
• Approximately 2" (50.8 mm) in width, up to 3" (76.2 mm) is acceptable.
• There are no loops on the belt.
• A single large snap or rivet is visible approximately 1" (25.4 mm) from the buckle.
• The belt may be worn with the snap to the right or left of the wearer.
• The buckle is a standard officer buckle.
• Buckle is adorned with an Imperial Code Disk at the center.
• Please refer to the Imperial Buckle reference page for information on accurate and inaccurate style buckles.
• Two boxes shall be present on either side of buckle. Dimensions are approximately 2 1/2" (63.5 mm) by 3 1/2" (88.9 mm) by 1" (25.4 mm) thick.
• Boxes shall be painted olive grey and moderately weathered.
• Belt shall be weathered appropriately

LOWER BELT:

• Belt is black and is made from two nylon straps sewn together with a zig-zag pattern which is approximately 7.6 cm wide.
• Belt boxes options:
  • Option A. two thin, two medium and one long tabbed box.
  • Option B Two thin, two medium one hinged drop box.
• Boxes are olive grey grey with moderate weathering.
• Belt shall be worn loose across lower abdomen.

I am fine with all of this for the belts. 

[JAFO[TX]]

There are definitely changes required to some of the descriptions as the detail is incorrect. Notes and suggested changes in YELLOW below...

UPPER BELT - LEATHER:

• The belt is constructed from a non-textured leather or a leather-like material.
• Approximately 2" (50.8 mm) in width, up to 3" (76.2 mm) is acceptable.
• There are no loops on the belt.
• A single large snap or rivet is visible approximately 1" (25.4 mm) from the buckle.
• The belt may be worn with the snap to the right or left of the wearer.
• The buckle is a standard officer buckle.
• Buckle is adorned with an Imperial Code Disk at the center.
• Please refer to the Imperial Buckle reference page for information on accurate and inaccurate style buckles.
• Two boxes shall be present on either side of buckle. Dimensions are approximately 2 1/2" (63.5 mm) by 3 1/2" (88.9 mm) by 1" (25.4 mm) thick. This is INCORRECT. The sizes here are for the OT Imperial Officer boxes. The Mudtrooper has the smaller R1 style boxes. Correct sizing is 2" (50.8mm) x 3" (76.2mm) x 1" (24.5mm).
• Boxes shall be painted olive grey and moderately weathered. Suggest amendment: Boxes shall be painted the same colour as the chest plate and heavily weathered.
• Belt shall be weathered appropriately.

LOWER BELT - WEBBING:

• Belt is black and is made from two nylon web straps sewn together with a zig-zag pattern which is approximately 3" (76.2mm) wide. Suggest amendment to include imperial/metric as with all other descriptions: ...is approximately 3" (76.2mm) wide.
• Belt boxes options:
  • Option A. two thin, two medium and one long tabbed box.
  • Option B Two thin, two medium one hinged drop box.
• Suggest removing the above as there are no options for the above. Mudtroopers have one configuration: The belt features five boxes - 1 x standard drop box, 2 x small, 2 x medium, 1 x long drop box.
• Boxes are olive grey grey with moderate weathering. Suggest amendment: Boxes shall be painted the same colour as the chest plate and moderately weathered.
• Belt shall be worn loose across lower abdomen.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Long drop box is hinged

 

It is also evident that troopers can be seen wearing both belts or the leather belt on its own. We need a line to state that the leather belt is mandatory and the webbing belt is optional.

Unless I need to respond to any return commentary that's all from me on this section.

[ISBEAR[501st]]

Will there be an last overall discussion before submitting the crl?

 

Could either parka or backplate be optional? because you can't see both at once.

Also agree on the a leather belt only option,

 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

14 hours ago, ISBEAR said:

Will there be an last overall discussion before submitting the crl?

 

Could either parka or backplate be optional? because you can't see both at once.

Also agree on the a leather belt only option,

 

Yes indeed there will be.  I'm taking what we construct and moving it to a "Proposal" thread.  Once we've gone through it all, I will unlock that thread and we will do a final review (and edits if necessary).