Imperial Army Trooper - Andor - CRL Discussion

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Ok, so we have let the bicep and shoulder discussion rest overnight with no further input.  Those are fairly straightforward, so Im going to clear and lock, then move to the gloves. 

Great find on the gloves. Agree, Dents will be our L2, but for basic approval I really like what Gary has linked for us. 

Change Log 1.1 (FINAL) 

Shoulder Armor

Each shoulder bell is a mirror image of the other.

The detailing of each shoulder bell is asymmetrical.

Shoulders should have a longer flat edge that covers top of bicep with a shorter flat edge that connects to chest armor.

Shallow grooves are present in a pattern matching the photo.

Shoulders are painted to match the armor and helmet. 

Shoulders are mounted to the shoulder strap via a bracket and 1 or 1.25" webbing strap. 

Optional rank stripes located on the left shoulder may be present. The stripes are painted on. The white stripe is approximately 1" (25mm" wide bordered by a black stripes approximately 5/16" (6.5mm) wide.  The stripes may be semi gloss to gloss in color. 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Biceps 

Bicep cover strips are raised and beveled with an added strip layer on top.

Biceps are painted to match the armor and helmet. 

 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Moving on to the gloves and belt. 

These are different from the mudtrooper, so lets begin with  change log 1.0

 

Change Log 1.0

 

Gloves

Black gloves made of smooth leather or leather-like material.

Back of glove has four detail lines across knuckles and a wider panel beneath.

Middle, ring, and pinky fingers have a stitch 1” (25 mm) below the fingertip.

Gloves have a U-shaped Velcro closure around the wrist.

Gloves shall have all logos removed.

There is no decorative stitching on the gloves. 

Gloves have a U shaped adjustment notch at the bottom of the wrist. 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Dents brand gloves are most accurate.

Belt

The belt is constructed from a non-textured leather or a leather-like material.
Approximately 2" (50.8 mm) in width, up to 3" (76.2 mm) is acceptable.
There are no loops on the belt.
A single large snap or rivet is visible approximately 1" (25.4 mm) to the wearers left from the buckle.
The belt may be worn with the snap to the right or left of the wearer.
The buckle is constructed from a horizontally brushed metal, or metal looking material.
The buckle size is approximately 2 5/8" (66.7 mm) high and 4 1/8" (104.5 mm) wide with 0.5" (12.7 mm) radius rounded corners.
Buckle is adorned with an Imperial Code Disk at the center.

Belt is black and is made from two 1.5” (38 mm) nylon web straps sewn together.

The belt features six two boxes, one on either side of the buckle.

One large drop box on the right side of the belt.

Two small and two medium boxes worn in the center of the belt.

One long drop box worn on the left side of the belt.

Boxes shall be painted olive grey. and be moderately weathered.

Belt is worn high on the waist, close to the bottom edge of the chestplate.

Belt closes with Velcro at the rear, right over left.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
Belt is made of leather.
Buckle may have a very slight curve.

[TeaJay[TX]]

Gloves writeup looks good to me... 

Currently reading this from my phone, away from PC until later tonight...

Here are some quick notes for me to elaborate on later for the belt...

There are two recessed lines in the leather of the belt at the top and bottom. I will snag some images later this evening... these recesses should be a L2 line item in my opinion. 

The code disk on the belt buckle is the flat edged disks from the Rogue One era, not the OT style with the recesses around the circular edges... this also in my opinion should be a L2 difference or even an L1, but will leave that up to Detachment crew to finalize. 

The belt boxes are the smaller sized Rogue One / Solo / Mando / Obiwan era, not the bulky large ones from the OT. This should be an L1 requirement, so that folks don't use the bulkier boxes.

 

More later...

 

[TeaJay[TX]]

For the writeup for belt above... this line should likely be changed to reference the aluminum silver color rather than olive gray..

"Boxes shall be painted olive grey."

--- "Boxes shall have an aluminum silver appearance"  -- or we can use the wording from another existing CRL for the standard officer belt from the Rogue One era that has belt boxes. ---   <--- EDIT: Ignore my comment here. Left it in for posterity, but updated my thoughts in a later post... The belt boxes are not silver, they are darker than the belt buckles.

Also, this line should likely be updated or removed: 

"Belt is worn high on the waist, close to the bottom edge of the chestplate." 

There are plenty of actors that based on their body type / height they tend to wear the belt right above the lower two pockets on the tunic, which is technically higher than a normal waist belt, but I wouldn't specifically say "close to the bottom edge of the chest plate"... maybe "above the lower pockets on the tunic"... either way this will have to be flexible depending on the torso length of the wearer.

The one person that definitely has his buckle close to his chestplate is the leader of the checkpoint team who tells his men to "Form up, do it quietly". The majority of the other actors seem to have it just above the two lower tunic pockets...

So perhaps, "Belt is worn high on the waist, resting above the two lower tunic pockets." -- there are a few troopers with the belt resting on tops of pocket flaps, so its a bit all over the place on this one... 

[TeaJay[TX]]

The more I think about belt placement on the uniform, the more I think there needs to be flexibility at all levels depending on wearer's body type...

[Vanedor[501st]]

3 hours ago, Blackwatch said:

 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Dents brand gloves are most accurate.

Not sure it's a good idea to specify a brand for level 2 requirement. Also, the wording is a bit vague. If Dent gloves are most accurate, does it mean that it is required for level 2?

[TeaJay[TX]]

6 minutes ago, Vanedor said:

Not sure it's a good idea to specify a brand for level 2 requirement. Also, the wording is a bit vague. If Dent gloves are most accurate, does it mean that it is required for level 2?

Shoretroopers require Orca Bay specific branded boots for L2, I can see these specific Dents gloves being the L2 requirement for this costume, but its up to the Detachment staff. To verify that the gloves are Dents, there is a tag inside the glove; not sure how specific the Detachment wants to be with L2. I would enforce it if it were up to me simply because other higher tier Rogue One era uniforms/costumes have similar brand specific requirements. 

[TeaJay[TX]]

Scratch my previous message about the belt boxes being aluminum in color... they are darker than the aluminum belt buckles on multiple troopers... definitely a darker gray / olive tented gray. 

Here's photos of the two recessed lines on the belt from Nemik and urine soldier

 

 

I have not yet been able to locate a clear side profile of the code disk on the belt buckle to show smooth edges rather than recessed ones. It's safe to say that if they are reusing Rogue One and other recent show costumes and props that the code disk is indeed the Rogue One style... but no "smoking gun" image from me yet on that front...

[Vanedor[501st]]

5 hours ago, TeaJay said:

Shoretroopers require Orca Bay specific branded boots for L2, I can see these specific Dents gloves being the L2 requirement for this costume, but its up to the Detachment staff. To verify that the gloves are Dents, there is a tag inside the glove; not sure how specific the Detachment wants to be with L2. I would enforce it if it were up to me simply because other higher tier Rogue One era uniforms/costumes have similar brand specific requirements. 

I still believe it's a bad practice that shouldn't be used for this CRL.

What if the company cease to exist? Is not available in several countries? 
Why should we care about the brand of something? 
We don't ask most piece of costume to be of a specific brand and I'm not sure why it's important for this particular item.

Something I could see mentioned for level 2, it's the U shaped adjustment notch at the bottom of the wrist. It's hardly noticeable and is covered by the sleeves most of the time.

[pm07[TX]]

Do we have a visual verification of the u-shaped adjustment notch that we can see?  I know Fraser said that they are on the original gloves but not all smooth leather gloves will necessarily have them?  

[pm07[TX]]

The boxes look more green/grey than any brushed silver/aluminum, especially when you see them near the buckle as in this screen shot. 

[pm07[TX]]

This may sound stupid but can we not make the belt part read something like "Belt should sit between the bottom edge of the armor and the top edge of the bottom pocket" or something like that. We see from the screencaps that depending on the body type, some are wearing their belt right at the bottom edge of the armor. Others are wearing it right at the top edge of the bottom pocket. Different body styles, maybe some tunics didn't have belt hooks etc. would cause this variation. 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Morning troopers! 

As always good discussion and all valid points. 

The belt text is lifted directly from the mudtrooper text, however since it can float around, we can alter it. US Army BDUs had their pockets laid out to put the belt above the lower pocket so you could get into it. Ill rewrite it for variation. For some it will ride under the armor, for others at the lower edge, it will depend on how tall you are.

Simon has a point that kept coming up with some of the Rebel costumes, especially the boots for Endor Commandos- those disappeared.  Currently the Deahtrooper CRL calls for Doc Martin Jereds for L2.  I think we can write it for Dents gloves, or exact replica thereof, as the Deathtrooper L2 CRL is written. Likely there will be a maker come out with a replica glove, especially if it is asked of them. The price point would likely be the same. 

I did not know there were differences in the belt boxes.  I looked at the Officer CRLs but could not find the sizes.

I cannot think of but one officer here, that we never see, that even has belt boxes. This is a mostly armored Garrison, and I think we only have the one officer, so boxes arent something that we see here. Im writing it for the olive grey shade, which it looks like to me.  But I will need sizes to put in the CRL. 

 

lets have a look at this:

Change Log 1.1

 

Gloves

Black gloves made of smooth leather or leather-like material.

Gloves shall have all logos removed.

There is no decorative stitching on the gloves. 

Gloves have a U shaped adjustment notch at the bottom of the wrist. 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Dents brand gloves are most accurate.     or accurate replica of Dents gloves. 

Belt

The belt is constructed from a non-textured leather or a leather-like material.
Approximately 2" (50.8 mm) in width, up to 3" (76.2 mm) is acceptable.
There are no loops on the belt.
A single large snap or rivet is visible approximately 1" (25.4 mm) to the wearers left from the buckle.
The buckle is constructed from a horizontally brushed metal, or metal looking material.
The buckle size is approximately 2 5/8" (66.7 mm) high and 4 1/8" (104.5 mm) wide with 0.5" (12.7 mm) radius rounded corners.
Buckle is adorned with an Imperial Code Disk at the center.                                                                                                The belt is worn above the top of the lower pocket flap top edge. 

The belt features two boxes, one on either side of the buckle.                                                                                            The boxes are Rogue One style boxes.  (need dimensions)

Boxes shall be painted olive grey. 

Belt is worn high on the waist, close to the bottom edge of the chestplate.

Belt closes with Velcro at the rear, right over left.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
Belt is made of leather.
Buckle may have a very slight curve.

Belt boxes are metal,  XXX x XXXX  x XXXX.

[TeaJay[TX]]

Non-Saga / Rogue One era belt boxes (ones that should be listed in our text description) are: "Dimensions are approximately 2 inches (50.8 mm) wide, 3 inches (76.2 mm) tall and 1 inch (25.4 mm) thick"

The Saga / OT era belt boxes (ones we don't want listed) are: "Dimensions are approximately 2 1/2" (63.5 mm) by 3 1/2" (88.9 mm) by 1" (25.4 mm) thick."

Differences are 1/2 inch on width and height.

----

 

I ordered 4 cans of SW6994 Blackgreen from https://www.myperfectcolor.com/paint/26911-sherwin-williams-sw6994-greenblack -- After the initial charge of making the batch, the 4 cans, shipping, and tax... it is the most expensive spray paint I've ever paid for in my life at $122 for only four 11oz cans. It should be here in about a week or two. I'll be sure to post some test spray photos but after stopping into a Sherwin Williams paint store, the paint chip card looks great. Hoping the actual paint match spray looks equally as good.

 

I'll be starting to prep for dye testing... here are the following colors I'll be testing to get the right color for the tunic, trousers, and hat.

Olive Green - https://www.ritdye.com/color-formulas/olive-green/
Green Sage - https://www.ritdye.com/color-formulas/green-sage/
Baby Turtle - https://www.ritdye.com/color-formulas/turtle-toes/
Turtle Toes - https://www.ritdye.com/color-formulas/turtle-toes-2/
Avocado - https://www.ritdye.com/color-formulas/avacado/
Rain Forest Cover - https://www.ritdye.com/color-formulas/rain-forest-cover/

Bought a handful of dyes to mix these colors with some sample fabrics provided by Vincent at Imperial Boots. I'm currently waiting for the dye to arrive. My soft goods from IB have arrived.

[Vanedor[501st]]

8 hours ago, TeaJay said:

I'll be starting to prep for dye testing... here are the following colors I'll be testing to get the right color for the tunic, trousers, and hat.

Thanks for doing these tests. I will certainly follow your progress. 

[Vanedor[501st]]

9 hours ago, Blackwatch said:

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Dents brand gloves are most accurate.     or accurate replica of Dents gloves. 

Sounds good to me!

I still wonder if the U shaped adjustment notch wouldn't be better as a level 2 requirements since it's hardly noticeable on "regular" photos. Having it as a level 2 requirement would make the basic level 1 costume slightly more accessible / affordable and GMLs won't have to ask close up photos of the gloves.

[neoakaj[TX]]

14 hours ago, Vanedor said:

Sounds good to me!

I still wonder if the U shaped adjustment notch wouldn't be better as a level 2 requirements since it's hardly noticeable on "regular" photos. Having it as a level 2 requirement would make the basic level 1 costume slightly more accessible / affordable and GMLs won't have to ask close up photos of the gloves.

I agree on this

[bubuc44]

16 hours ago, Vanedor said:

Sounds good to me!

I still wonder if the U shaped adjustment notch wouldn't be better as a level 2 requirements since it's hardly noticeable on "regular" photos. Having it as a level 2 requirement would make the basic level 1 costume slightly more accessible / affordable and GMLs won't have to ask close up photos of the gloves.

agree with you

boxes dimensions should be as in other rogue one style crl 

- approximately 2 inches (5,08 cm) by 3 inches (7,62cm) by 1 inch (2,54 cm)

i do not see any reasons to get it in other colors than gun metal (as seen in other crl rogue one and movies/series) I really think it just depend on the light of the screen and the time of the day they shoot a scene (maybe I am wrong) 

let me know

[Vanedor[501st]]

1 hour ago, bubuc44 said:

i do not see any reasons to get it in other colors than gun metal (as seen in other crl rogue one and movies/series) I really think it just depend on the light of the screen and the time of the day they shoot a scene (maybe I am wrong) 

 

I wish I could agree with you. Unfortunately, it appears the finish on the boxes is truly different.

In this picture here, I think we can clearly see the difference between the classic gun metal belt buckle and the matte belt boxes they have used for Aldhani. Lighting isn't a factor, here.

 

I'm using my OT belt boxes for so many costumes. I wish I could do the same with my Rogue One sized one but I fear I will have to dedicate them to my Aldhani trooper costume.

 

[bubuc44]

21 minutes ago, Vanedor said:

 

I wish I could agree with you. Unfortunately, it appears the finish on the boxes is truly different.

In this picture here, I think we can clearly see the difference between the classic gun metal belt buckle and the matte belt boxes they have used for Aldhani. Lighting isn't a factor, here.

 

I'm using my OT belt boxes for so many costumes. I wish I could do the same with my Rogue One sized one but I fear I will have to dedicate them to my Aldhani trooper costume.

 

maybe you are right but here it's an officer not a trooper so I'll double check on other screenshot  

[bubuc44]

32 minutes ago, Vanedor said:

 

I wish I could agree with you. Unfortunately, it appears the finish on the boxes is truly different.

In this picture here, I think we can clearly see the difference between the classic gun metal belt buckle and the matte belt boxes they have used for Aldhani. Lighting isn't a factor, here.

 

I'm using my OT belt boxes for so many costumes. I wish I could do the same with my Rogue One sized one but I fear I will have to dedicate them to my Aldhani trooper costume.

@Vanedorand you are right Sir! (but seems we are both right ? I've spotted 2 different versions in the same pic (Andor one is lighter than the other trooper which is dark grey agree with you apologies, looks like the same color of the armor ?) 

link below

https://wall.alphacoders.com/big.php?i=1280670

[Vanedor[501st]]

Or this one here. I think we can clearly see the difference.

 

[Vanedor[501st]]

41 minutes ago, bubuc44 said:

@Vanedorand you are right Sir! (but seems we are both right ? I've spotted 2 different versions in the same pic (Andor one is lighter than the other trooper which is dark grey agree with you apologies, looks like the same color of the armor ?) 

link below

https://wall.alphacoders.com/big.php?i=1280670

Well spotted. It's true that Andor's belt box seems a bit different in this frame.

I revised a good part of episode 6 to see if I could see any other occurrence. Late in the episode it's getting dark so it's difficult to tell. But earlier, I saw this :

 

Perhaps, since he is the hero of the show, he got a slightly different costume? Hrmm.

 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Those are two completely different colors!  That photo is great, it even shows that light grey square on the side of the chest armor, and you cannot see the pulley grooves on what would be the Mitchell 78 record player pulley. 

From looking at some of them they look cast, like cast resin, I do not see the split line where the lip of the box would be. 

We can write the U as L2, easily done. I'ts not seen, but neither is the strap holding cod pieces to butt plates. 

I am removing the L2 statement that belt boxes are metal. after inspecting the great image that was provided, I see no evidence these are metal. The edge of the lid are thick, and I see no paint chipping you get with painted tin. 

Change Log 1.2

Gloves

Black gloves made of smooth leather or leather-like material.

Gloves shall have all logos removed.

There is no decorative stitching on the gloves. 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Gloves shall have a U shaped adjustment at the wrist. 

Dents brand gloves are most accurate.     or accurate replica of Dents gloves. 

Belt

The belt is constructed from a non-textured leather or a leather-like material.
Approximately 2" (50.8 mm) in width, up to 3" (76.2 mm) is acceptable.
There are no loops on the belt.
A single large snap or rivet is visible approximately 1" (25.4 mm) to the wearers left from the buckle.
The buckle is constructed from a horizontally brushed metal, or metal looking material.
The buckle size is approximately 2 5/8" (66.7 mm) high and 4 1/8" (104.5 mm) wide with 0.5" (12.7 mm) radius rounded corners.
Buckle is adorned with an Imperial Code Disk at the center.                                                                                                The belt is worn above the top of the lower pocket flap top edge. 

The belt features two boxes, one on either side of the buckle.                                                                                            The boxes are Rogue One style boxes, the dimensions are approximately 2 1/2" (63.5 mm) by 3 1/2" (88.9 mm) by 1" (25.4 mm) thick

Boxes shall be painted olive grey or gunmetal with a flat finish. 

Belt is worn high on the waist, close to the bottom edge of the chestplate.

Belt closes with Velcro at the rear, right over left.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
Belt is made of leather.
Buckle may have a very slight curve.

Belt boxes are metal,  XXX x XXXX  x XXXX.

 

[Vanedor[501st]]

Wondering, it seems belt boxes have been included with the belt. Should they not be a separated item? It's the case with the IOC crls.  It might help keeping the crl a bit more clear.

Also concerning the belt, perhaps it would be a nice idea to include the two recessed lines that TJ mentioned for level 2 ?