tipperaryred

Perfect, I think we've got the wording as good as we're going to get it for now. We've fixed a few glaring errors, cut down on some of the more verbose wording, and ensured there's a good level of detail for those pursing Level 2. I think we're good to move on!

Sound, if it doesn't even appear on the 3D renders then it probably doesn't belong as a requirement for basic clearance. It might be a good rule of thumb to stick to for consistency? Features that don't appear in the game renders but are visible in the hi-res promotional images can be strictly limited to Level 2? The mesh behind the lenses is another good example of that.

Perfect and yes, the absence of gaps seems to be a huge difference. As far as disallowing the OT TIE helmet goes then, rather than adding in loads of extra explanation to the CRL, can we simply add a single sentence along the lines of, "For further explanation of the differences in helmet styles, please see the Detachment forums"?

As a starting point, here is a useful thread by one of our JRS colleagues, explaining the difference between a Rogue One and an OT TIE helmet: https://forum.jrs501st.com/topic/14160-r1-vs-ot-helmet/#comment-134307 This is pretty comprehensive, so there is no need for us to waste time re-doing work already carried out over in the JRS forums. Suffice to say that the two helmets are sufficiently different that it is safe to separate the Inferno helmet from the OT TIE helmet completely. Our CRL already rules out the use of OT TIE helmets for Inferno, so the only question is whether we add some of these details to help guide GMLs. For those who don't have access to the JRS forums, the main text is below (credit to "RBJ", the DXO over at JRS): So what are the differences between R1 Ties and OT? Short answer is everything is different. I’ll start with the R1 helmet. -The face is symmetrical with much smaller eyes -there is no visible assembly hardware -cogs are idealized and white with no slit cut -the way the helmet is trimmed leaves no gaps at the sideburn area - the side “gas mask clip” area is trimmed in line with the bottom of the side burn -the ears have the gas mask clips molded in -the ears also have a small round raised area that appears on the APH helmets. Although hidden by ears on OT, it appears on that helmet as well but only on the wearers right. The only thing I think it shares with OT would be mowhawk clips and pill box. I’m probably missing somethings but our resident R1 experts can chime in😁

Good catch, though given that this has gone virtually unnoticed for years I'd say that it's safe to put this new text as a Level 2 requirement?

Thanks for the observations so far. When I get a chance, I'd like to go back to basics and try and get a side by side comparison of the original reference images for both. Apologies for being missing the past week, I've had a lot on. I should be able to jump back into this, and Del's updates, later this week.

Now that we have our first Del Specialist, I think it is important to have a discussion to clarify the features of the unique "Inferno" helmet, compared to the Rogue One or OT TIE helmets. As it is strictly a Level 2 requirement, it has not been an issue for builders or GMLs in the past, but now that we are getting specialist applications in I think we need to lock it down and be as specific as we can. Dennis @Wingman, you are welcome to post up some of the media that you published in one of the Specialist threads earlier. These will help as a starting point comparing not just the canon references, but also the sculpts used by our real world vendors.

Unless we see evidence that they dramatically altered the IST tunic just for this one costume, I'd say it is safe to proceed with the previous CRL text. Do we have confirmation from those who were on set that it is 100% the same tunics used? And yes sorry, if there's anything that is 100% hidden by the armour then probably no harm either dropping it or maybe better yet moving it to Level 2.

Apologies David, a busy few days! In line with some of the discussions we had earlier in the text, a few further tweaks below. I've also just put a little bit of proposed tidying in to clean up some of the wordiness. Flightsuit One-piece flight suit is made out of a suitably heavy fabric. A canvas style fabric is most suitable, but other fabrics consistent with the visual references are entirely acceptable. The front zipper is covered by a 2" (50mm) wide piece of leather or leather-like material with vertical lines that attaches with Velcro over the zipper. Approximately 1.5" (38mm) tall mandarin collar with a chevron shaped, left-over-right Velcro closure. A 2.5" (63.5mm) red embroidered or PVC Inferno Squad emblem, on a black background, is present on both shoulders. The shoulders of the suit are slightly padded. A compad pocket that properly fits the compad is placed above the left glove so that the pocket is not hidden and faces outward on the arm. On the left bicep below the cog emblem, there is a code cylinder pocket with no flap, and vertical stitching dividing it into pen sleeves. No code cylinders are present. The bottom front corner is cut off at an angle. A piece of leather or leather-like material is sewn below the pen sleeve openings and is the same length as the top of the pocket. There is a piece of nylon strapping sewn below the pen sleeve openings and is the same length as the top of the pocket. The bottom front corner of the pocket is cut off at a bevel on the side pointing in view direction, with the broader upside forming the border of the pen sleeves. The right sleeve has a cargo pocket with a chevron flap below the cog emblem. The right arm pocket has a chevron flap. Two large chest pockets and two large front pockets with no zippers or flaps are present below the belt. There are no leg pockets below the knees. There are two red stripes that run up the right side of the flight suit. The first begins at the bottom of the right leg and continues up to the right armpit. The second begins at the right wrist and stops at the bottom of the arm pocket. The stripe then continues above the arm pocket, behind the patch emblem to the shoulder seam. The red arm stripe stops at the top of the shoulder seam, but continues up and over the shoulder as a black stripe. There are two black stripes that run up the left side of the flight suit. The first begins at the bottom of the left leg and continues up to the left armpit. The second begins at the left wrist and stops at the bottom of the arm pocket. The stripe then continues above the arm pocket, behind the patch emblem to the shoulder seam. The black arm stripe stops at the top of the shoulder seam, but continues up and over the shoulder to the collar. For basic approval this can be accomplished with topstitching. The black portion of this stripe stops at the collar. A piece of leather or leather-like material is sewn below the pen sleeve openings and is the same length as the top of the pocket. MOVED ABOVE TO THE SLEEVE SECTION FOR CLARITY OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Patches are vinyl on textile with no edge border. If twill is used for the patch material the fabric texture will be vertically oriented. The black stripes on top of the shoulders shall be a material matching texture and weave of the red stripe. Textured canvas is most accurate for the flightsuit's construction as it is a thick materials with a "solid" structure. A "loose", soft or lightweight material is not accurate.

Yes, the text above mirrors the text for the earlier hats already described in other CRLs, so they will largely be able to be used interchangeably. And yes, the hat will certainly not be essential for all versions of this costume. There are a lot of part being swapped in and out, including the hat(s), goggles and tactical vests. For now we'll just work on getting each of those parts well described, and then we can finalise how exactly the CRL will be presented. We could go with a single CRL with a lot of "Optional" pieces, or a multi-part CRL using different "versions" as per the IAT and IST CRLs.

Dedra's hat uses the exact same text as the OT Staff Officer hat, and I'd agree that what we see in the tactical team does on the surface seem more conical at the top. However, it's worth noting that Heert is wearing the exact same style hat as the tacticals, despite being a supervisor like Dedra. Combined with what we know about the production team reusing costumes and props wherever possible, it seems to me quite likely that we're looking at the same hat in all cases. Perhaps it was a conscious decision to have the tactical hats looking a little more roughed up? If you manhandled them and threw them around a bit, it could almost certainly compress them and create that slightly puffed up look at the top? In either case, I think going with the text above referring Dedra's CRL would be appropriate. We could also add in the more detailed description of the material from the IOC text if it looks appropriate to folks? "Fabric is a medium weight suiting material matching the pants and tunic if applicable. Cavalry Twill or a Gabardine style weave is most accurate." I'd 100% agree that if we add in the "more conical" text it would only belong in Level 2, as would any tweaks to the code cylinders. Do we have any close ups of the code cylinders to compare? But yes, in essence the same hat should easily be able to clear basic clearance for the ISB Tactical Agent, Dedra Meero and the OT Staff Officer.

That's great to hear Dennis. A key goal for us with this update has been to give builders a little more flexibility, so hopefully that will also be a benefit for those who want to clear multiple Inferno costumes across the two detachments. Please feel free to jump in with any feedback, or give any of us a message if you'd like any feedback over on the JRS boards.

Just a couple of additional tweaks there David - the line about "suitably heavy fabric" for the flightsuit and crossing out the level 2 line about placement of the oiler pouch for the shoulder pouch (because it's only repeating the exact same placement already specified for basic clearance above it). Flightsuit One-piece flight suit is made out of a canvas or similar suitably heavy material fabric. A canvas style fabric is most suitable, but other fabrics consistent with the visual references are entirely acceptable." The front zipper is covered by a 2" (50mm) wide piece of leather or leather-like material with vertical lines that attaches with Velcro over the zipper. Approximately 1.5" (38mm) tall mandarin collar with a chevron shaped, left-over-right Velcro closure. A 2.5" (63.5mm) red embroidered or PVC Inferno Squad emblem, on a black background, is present on both shoulders. The shoulders of the suit are slightly padded. A compad pocket that properly fits the compad is placed above the left glove so that the pocket is not hidden and faces outward on the arm. On the left bicep below the cog emblem, there is a code cylinder pocket with no flap, and vertical stitching dividing it into pen sleeves. No code cylinders are present. There is a piece of nylon strapping sewn below the pen sleeve openings and is the same length as the top of the pocket. The bottom front corner of the pocket is cut off at a bevel on the side pointing in view direction, with the broader upside forming the border of the pen sleeves. The right sleeve has a cargo pocket below the cog emblem. The right arm pocket has a chevron flap. Two large chest pockets and two large front pockets with no zippers or flaps are present below the belt There are no leg pockets below the knees. There are two red stripes that run up the right side of the flight suit. The first begins at the bottom of the right leg and continues up to the right armpit. The second begins at the right wrist and stops at the bottom of the arm pocket. The stripe then continues above the arm pocket, behind the patch emblem to the shoulder seam. The red arm stripe stops at the top of the shoulder seam, but continues up and over the shoulder as a black stripe. There are two black stripes that run up the left side of the flight suit. The first begins at the bottom of the left leg and continues up to the left armpit. The second begins at the left wrist and stops at the bottom of the arm pocket. The stripe then continues above the arm pocket, behind the patch emblem to the shoulder seam. The black arm stripe stops at the top of the shoulder seam, but continues up and over the shoulder to the collar. For basic approval this can be accomplished with topstitching. The black portion of this stripe stops at the collar. A piece of leather or leather-like material is sewn below the pen sleeve openings and is the same length as the top of the pocket. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Patches are vinyl on textile with no edge border. If twill is used for the patch material the fabric texture will be vertically oriented. The black stripes on top of the shoulders shall be a material matching texture and weave of the red stripe. Textured canvas is most accurate for the flightsuits construction as it is a thick materials with a "solid" structure. A "loose", soft or lightweight material is not accurate. Armor Armor consists of front and back pieces connected by shoulder bridges anchored by wedge connectors. Armor is glossy black. Chest and back plate meet flush at the sides under the arms. This is done with a third plate that bridges the gap between the front and back armor parts. This is best achieved with material matching the rest of the hard armor parts, but more flexible options are also accepted so long as the visual appearance matches the rest of the Armor (eg. non-textured black leather. Molded black, ribbed, rubber shoulder bridges are acceptable. Back plate contains detailed "O II" design. The top of the back plate box may feature a trapezoid shaped depression 4" x 5" (101mm x 127mm) at the top of the box. There is a 5/16" (8mm) circular depression below the right shoulder strap connector on the back plate. Armor may be lightly stained or weathered. Silver is not permitted. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Made with reference to the game's 3D model and scaled to the wearer. Armor scaling and strapping must fit the wearer accurately. "O II" design shall have 16 points on the "O" design and "II" bars shall have 5 indented slot depressions at the bottom of each bar matching references. Trapezoid shaped depression at the top of the box shall match game refences for size, shape and location. Any visible staining or weathering must be light. Silver is not permitted. Shoulder Ammo Pouch There is an MP-40 style ammo pouch attached to the left shoulder and it must be filled. The pouch is made of black canvas, or canvas-like material with black stitching. Closure straps are made of black leather or leather-like material. There is a small oiler-style pouch on the bottom of the pouch at the right side. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Attachment is not seen. No straps are visible. Magnets or another source of firm mounting are advised. Oiler pouch is attached to the bottom right side of the right pouch.

Thanks a million for jumping in again Teresa @SoulArt. Looking back on all our "seams" text again I'm not remotely happy with it and I think we could definitely use your expertise. I agree entirely that there's no seam on the "outside" of the leg as originally drafted. We should have caught that earlier. As I see it now the legs only have three seams: One around the circumference of each leg just above the knee. One at the inside rear of each thigh, running from the knee seam up to the horizontal seam running across the butt. One at the inside front of each thigh, running from the knee seam up to join at the crotch. Does that read correctly for you based on what you're seeing? As for the shins, I fully agree with needing to put one in. As it does not exist in the references, I am happy to leave this entirely at the discretion of the wearer/maker. It would seem a bit daft for us to insist that it *has* to go in one specific place, if in the references it never exists to begin with. Even if it is front centre, it would be almost entirely hidden by the knee armour so would not stand out. So front centre, back centre, inside centre or outside centre... I don't think any of them are going to look out too of place. I'd agree with your instinct to go back or inside though. Let me know what you think, and then we can see about redrafting that text 🙂

It is certainly very sad to see that we will not be permitted to proceed with exploring this CRL. The reason given was that the references were deemed "insufficient to justify a new CRL" beyond the already existing ones for the named Inferno characters. The basic trooper proposed here was completely distinct from any of the named characters in either SpecOps or JRS, so it is a puzzling decision. We have also built high quality CRLs in the past with worse reference images (as have other detachments), so I'm at a loss here unfortunately. Gutting to have so much work thrown out.

It is the job of our good friends at JRS to look after Iden and Gideon, and I'm not sure if they are currently updating those CRLs. I know @Wingmanis very active over here as well though, so I'm sure that he will keep an eye out for any updates that could be useful for their work too 🙂

Looks good, and yup, pretty sure that's you caught up now. Cheers!

Yes those Etsy sellers are the only ones that I'm aware of too.

Absolutely, the FLYYE vests have been specified as inaccurate for a long time now. My earlier point on measurements was more a wider point about trying to slim the CRL text down a little, which we've been trying to do here where we can. I've lost count of the number of members I've tried to sell on an Inferno only for them to scrap the idea after 5 seconds of scrolling down the CRL text. So if we can take some of the extraneous parts out, especially where they are already readily available here on the forums, I think that can only be a benefit.

That's brilliant Kevin, we're all looking forward to seeing them!

The fight suit would be the trickiest part of this potential CRL, as unlike the "Shatterpoint" troopers, the primary artwork here shows a flightsuit that is inconsistent with the sculpts, and with established Inferno flight suits. I would suggest that for now we won't be returning to this "Legion" version until we know where we're going with the "Shatterpoint" one that is currently under consideration.

No need to apologise, nothing missed 🙂 It's with our friends in the LMO team at the moment, so we'll post here once a decision has been made.

Thanks Antonio, we will wait and hope for a positive verdict on the references and the work completed to date. With regards to the E-11, I imagine we would go with the same basic clearance text that we have in Del's CRL, which is also the same used by the FISD for basic clearance on all of their OT TKs. The main artwork does suggest a ROTJ style E-11 which would be in line with the other Inferno CRLs, but our current thinking is to omit any Level 2 requirements for this proposed costume. If it is approved, the costume can be a great stepping stone to Del, Iden and Hask for those looking to achieve a higher level of accuracy. E-11 Blaster Based on a real or replica Sterling sub-machine gun, scratch-built, or a modified commercial toy Stormtrooper blaster.

Jumping back in, we have the shoulder pouch next. I made a couple of grammatical and clarifying tweaks already, but the substance doesn't need any changes as far as I can see. The reference to the oiler pouch in Level 2 doesn't seem to add anything to the basic clearance text except to refer to it as an "oiler pouch" instead of a "pouch". Shoulder Ammo Pouch There is an MP-40 style ammo pouch attached to the left shoulder and it must be filled. The pouch is black in color and made of canvas, or canvas-like material. Closure straps are made of black leather or leather-like material. There is a small oiler-style pouch on the bottom of the pouch at the right side. All pouch stitching is black. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Attachment is not seen. No straps are visible. Magnets or another source of firm mounting are advised. Oiler pouch is attached to the bottom right side of the right pouch. (Is this adding anything to what is written above?)

Moving onto the chestbox, again, taking Del's text and modifying it. We can clearly see the left buttons, the top lights and the tops of the 3 rocker switches in the primary visual reference. Referring to some of the artwork for Iden in the same publication confirms the same colouring system is in place. Chest Box Chest boxes meeting the standard for the Inferno Squad - Del Meeko CRL are acceptable. The chest box is required to have the same configurations as seen in the visual references photo. The chest box is held to the armor with an invisible system which is not visible when the box is removed. Strong magnets are advised. The chest box is painted glossy black and matches the sheen of the armor. The left side of the chest box has five detail pieces: 1 Red, 1 White, 1 black, 2 Blue. There is a 1/8" (3mm) thick white pinstripe border around the square containing the 4 leftmost detail pieces. There are two round indicator lights above the rocker switches, one white, one red respectively. There are three rocker switches below the round indicator lights. The rockers are always gray, white, gray. The gray rockers have red dots or indicator lamps in the bottom outfacing portion. There is a 1/8" (3mm) thick white pinstripe that runs horizontally across the bottom portion of the box. There is a male silver snap or radio jack and a silver round disc with cone knob greeblie on the lower portion of the box below the horizontal pinstripe. There are two "gear" type greeblies affixed to either end of the lower tube portion of the box, and are painted silver or metallic grey. There are two silver or metallic grey machined aluminum or molded silver greeblies in the hose ports of the box. See reference images and the CRL Gallery view. The hose port greeblies feature 8 round depressions around a raised disc. The color matches the gear type greeblies. Chestbox may be light to moderately weathered or stained. Silver is not permitted. The red and white indicator lights and rocker lamps may be functional. OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable): Box is electrically lit to include the red and white squares, both rocker lamp lights and the red and white indicator lights on top of the box. *Box is based on the games 3D model and is scaled to the wearer and consistent with armor size.