Star Wars Battlefront (2004): Phase 0 Dark Trooper CRL Discussion

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Here is what I have for the forearms, based on the reference images:

Forearms

• Forearms are fully sealed and closed.
• Overlap construction is only allowed for kits that come with the cover strip molded into the part.
• The inner half of the forearm on each arm at the edge of the cover strip is a darker gray than the base body color.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• There shall be no return edges present on the inside of the front of the forearms.

Look good?

[Blue Hatter]

On 9/4/2020 at 10:31 PM, IcyTrooper said:

Here is what I have for the forearms, based on the reference images:

Forearms

• Forearms are fully sealed and closed.
• Overlap construction is only allowed for kits that come with the cover strip molded into the part.
• The inner half of the forearm on each arm at the edge of the cover strip is a darker gray than the base body color.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• There shall be no return edges present on the inside of the front of the forearms.

Look good?

Yup, that all sounds good to me.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Here is what I have for the hand plates:

Hand Plates

• Hand plates are mirror images of each other.
• Hand plates have a top curving ridge that comes to a point over the index or middle finger just past the main knuckle of the hand.
• Hand plates should be securely mounted over the back of the glove. These can be made up of plastic, latex or latex-like material.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• The shape of the hand plates will be clamshell. Hand plates should be securely mounted over the back of the glove. These can be made up of plastic, latex or latex-like material.

This one is an interesting one because in some angles of the reference images they look like possibly clone hand plates as a lot of the armor also has clone aesthetics. Now in the texture file it looks like they are clamshell. We'll need to have a group discussion on this one. Remember, the goal is to match the reference images and not necessarily what has been already done in real life.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

On 9/7/2020 at 1:51 PM, IcyTrooper said:

Here is what I have for the hand plates:

Hand Plates

• Hand plates are mirror images of each other.
• Hand plates have a top curving ridge that comes to a point over the index or middle finger just past the main knuckle of the hand.
• Hand plates should be securely mounted over the back of the glove. These can be made up of plastic, latex or latex-like material.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• The shape of the hand plates will be clamshell. Hand plates should be securely mounted over the back of the glove. These can be made up of plastic, latex or latex-like material.

This one is an interesting one because in some angles of the reference images they look like possibly clone hand plates as a lot of the armor also has clone aesthetics. Now in the texture file it looks like they are clamshell. We'll need to have a group discussion on this one. Remember, the goal is to match the reference images and not necessarily what has been already done in real life.

I think this is the best angle of the hand plate we have.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

6 minutes ago, Raider said:

I think this is the best angle of the hand plate we have.

That and this one: 

 

I'm thinking about possibly buying the game on Steam to get more shots.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Looking at that above (and the texture reference shows similar) it looks like it's more like the ESB TK shell hand plate (clone hand plates are more angular if I remember correctly)…HOWEVER…there is no texture there really.  It's smooth all the way.  The question would be, is that intentional or is that just cutting back (or limitations of) the design textures?  We could demand a totally smooth hand plate at Level 1 OR allow the readily available ESB plate for Level 1 while requiring a smooth shell plate for Level 2.  Thoughts?

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

2 minutes ago, Raider said:

Looking at that above (and the texture reference shows similar) it looks like it's more like the ESB TK shell hand plate (clone hand plates are more angular if I remember correctly)…HOWEVER…there is no texture there really.  It's smooth all the way.  The question would be, is that intentional or is that just cutting back (or limitations of) the design textures?  We could demand a totally smooth hand plate at Level 1 OR allow the readily available ESB plate for Level 1 while requiring a smooth shell plate for Level 2.  Thoughts?

I'm glad you agree with me on that about the hand plate! I was really thinking it should be clammy. I'd like the smooth or ESB clam for L1 and smooth for L2.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Here is the new proposed text for that:

Hand Plates

• Hand plates are mirror images of each other.
• These may be clamshell snowtrooper-style hand plates, and not the trapezoidal design seen in A New Hope), or they may be smooth clamshell with no snowtrooper-style hand plate ridges.
• Hand plates shall be securely mounted over the back of the glove. These can be made up of plastic, latex or latex-like material.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• The shape of the hand plates must be smooth clamshell and may not be the snowtrooper-style hand plates.

[Blue Hatter]

The thing about the hand plates is that they're a texture, not a model, so they get deformed with the hand movement of the character model. Case in point, the picture here...

With the index finger outstretched it stretched out the hand plate texture into a point. It also comes to a point in this picture...

I’m assuming that Oota Goota used a picture like one of those when designing his kit.

And in this picture it gets pushed in behind the thumb...

So it's hard to say what the developers were going for there. That said, don't stormtrooper hand plates have more ridges and a T-shaped section while the clone trooper ones are smoother without the ridges? Or am I getting hand plate designed mixed up? Granted I haven't really studied the stormtrooper hand plates much so I don't really know the differences. Heh. But here are my hand plates, which also look similar to the one shown in IcyTrooper’s second picture...

And here's what they looked like on me during my original test fitting (man, that seems like ages ago)...

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

On 9/8/2020 at 5:40 PM, Raider said:

Looking at that above (and the texture reference shows similar) it looks like it's more like the ESB TK shell hand plate (clone hand plates are more angular if I remember correctly)…HOWEVER…there is no texture there really.  It's smooth all the way.  The question would be, is that intentional or is that just cutting back (or limitations of) the design textures?  We could demand a totally smooth hand plate at Level 1 OR allow the readily available ESB plate for Level 1 while requiring a smooth shell plate for Level 2.  Thoughts?

Looking at all the references I get all three vibes:

in some it looks OT TK, in some it looks like a clamshell (epecially my Scootch clamshells which are much less pronounced than my Troopermaster hanplates which are MUCH taller) and the spiked plates, which may be an artifact of the game movement. 

Im tempted to allow a low profile clamshell like Scootch's for L1, and a pointed handplate like Alex has for L2.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

I thank both of you for your input. I'd say we can allow clamshell or pointed for L1 and pointed required for L2. I know that the Dark Trooper did have many clone trooper armor influences when looking at the reference images.

Here is the text revised again:

Hand Plates

• Hand plates are mirror images of each other.
• Hand plates must be styled as one of the following:
  • Smooth clamshell snowtrooper-style (not the trapezoidal design seen in A New Hope), or
  • Ridged clamshell snowtrooper-style (not the trapezoidal design seen in A New Hope), or
  • Clone trooper-style which have a top curving ridge that comes to a point over the index or middle finger just past the main knuckle of the hand.
• Hand plates shall be securely mounted over the back of the glove. These can be made up of plastic, latex or latex-like material.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• The shape of the hand plates must be styled as clone trooper-style which have a top curving ridge that comes to a point over the index or middle finger just past the main knuckle of the hand.

[kishdr]

Here's what the hand plates looked like on my model if it helps. Would these be clam shell?

 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

We cannot use your model as a reference point.

As for what category the plates would fall under, I will let @IcyTrooper address that.

[kishdr]

3 minutes ago, Raider said:

We cannot use your model as a reference point.

As for what category the plates would fall under, I will let @IcyTrooper address that.

Right. Of course, sorry. 

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

So, with seeing multiple vantage points on the in-game reference images and texture files I believe that what @Blackwatch had suggested about the L1 options and then L2 narrowed down to one choice would be the best.

The first two bullet points in L1 would be similar to this (imagine it without the ridge part for the second option):

 

The last bullet point and L2 would look similar to this:

[Blue Hatter]

Ah, I was wondering what the "clamshell" style was, too. Thanks!

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

I am finalizing the hand plate text with what is above and will also finalize the glove text as it is standard:

Gloves

• Black in color, made of either rubber, nomex, leather, or leather-like material, with no visible straps or logos/ designs. The fingers are enclosed, non-textured.

We then move onto the chest!

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Here is the proposed text for the chest based on the reference images:

Chest Armor

• Chest armor overlaps abdominal armor.
• There will be a darker gray coloring that curves up from each outer ridge of the raised portion of each breast towards the neck and shoulder straps.
• On each side of the chest there will be a silver/gray circular greeblie with a red center.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Chest plate shall have return edges all around, thicker at the bottom.
• Circular greeblies on chest will have a metal appearance and red circular center detail will fade to black towards the outer edge of each circle.

[Blue Hatter]

Would my notes be of any use here?

CHEST ARMOR

• The chest armor is very similar to the standard OT stormtrooper chest armor.

• The armor is painted gloss medium gray-blue.

• Two black pill-shaped slots on the right breast.

• There is a beveled edge from near the shoulders and which curves down to the side of the chest giving the appearance of armor layered beneath the medium gray-blue armor.
  → Level 2/3: Chest armor is made of two layers of armor, a bottom layer and a top layer, with the top layer painted medium gray-blue and the bottom layer painted gloss dark gray-blue.

• This inset armor section is painted gloss dark gray-blue.

• Two cone-shaped bolts attached to the upper chest.

• The bolts are roughly two inches at the bottom and taper in toward the top, and stop at a flat end.

• Cone-shaped indented interior that ends in a flat surface.

• Bolts are painted metallic silver to look like metal.

• The interior flat surface is painted bright red.
  → Level 2: The interior is hollow and red LED lights are affixed within.

• Chestplate overlaps the abdominal plate.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

On 9/19/2020 at 1:27 PM, IcyTrooper said:

I have a question for clarification, looking at our proposal and Alex's notes. 

Here is the proposed text for the chest based on the reference images:

Chest Armor

• Chest armor overlaps abdominal armor.
• There will be a darker gray coloring that curves up from each outer ridge of the raised portion of each breast towards the neck and shoulder straps.
• On each side of the chest there will be a silver/gray circular greeblie with a red center.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Chest plate shall have return edges all around, thicker at the bottom.
• Circular greeblies on chest will have a metal appearance and red circular center detail will fade to black towards the outer edge of each circle.

the Silver/grey paint.  Is this intended to be a metallic grey, silver , or a silver OR grey greeblie with a red center?  

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

@Blackwatch that is a good point, I'm going back to the references and would say it should be silver which is what it looks like in the reference images. For accuracy on L2 it has to have a metal appearance.

 

I'm going to update the text with some of what @Blue Hatter suggested as well as your clarification @Blackwatch  

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Okay, so I took what you guys said and improvised a little. @Blue Hatter I'm having a hard time seeing that those darker portions are a separate piece. It can be inferred with the way it fades to black, however, it does the same with the chest greeblies and those aren't two pieces. Stuff in purple is what I have changed/added.

Chest Armor

• Chest armor overlaps abdominal armor.
• There will be a darker gray coloring that curves up from each outer ridge of the raised portion of each breast towards the neck and shoulder straps.
• On each side of the chest there will be a silver circular greeblie with a red center that fades to black around the edges.
• There are two pill-shaped black indentions underneath and slight offset from the greeblie.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Chest plate shall have return edges all around, thicker at the bottom.
• Circular greeblies on chest are more conical and have a metal appearance:
  • Greeblies get narrower towards the top and wider at the bottom.
  • Red LEDs within each greeblie give the appearance that it is glowing.

One thing we should probably address at the end of this is the LED stuff. For the helmet we made the LED glow a L1 detail. Perhaps we should revisit that for the helmet and push those to L2 and make adjustments for the red on the aerators.

[Blue Hatter]

On 9/21/2020 at 6:42 PM, IcyTrooper said:

Okay, so I took what you guys said and improvised a little. @Blue Hatter I'm having a hard time seeing that those darker portions are a separate piece. It can be inferred with the way it fades to black, however, it does the same with the chest greeblies and those aren't two pieces. Stuff in purple is what I have changed/added.

Chest Armor

• Chest armor overlaps abdominal armor.
• There will be a darker gray coloring that curves up from each outer ridge of the raised portion of each breast towards the neck and shoulder straps.
• On each side of the chest there will be a silver circular greeblie with a red center that fades to black around the edges.
• There are two pill-shaped black indentions underneath and slight offset from the greeblie.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Chest plate shall have return edges all around, thicker at the bottom.
• Circular greeblies on chest are more conical and have a metal appearance:
  • Greeblies get narrower towards the top and wider at the bottom.
  • Red LEDs within each greeblie give the appearance that it is glowing.

One thing we should probably address at the end of this is the LED stuff. For the helmet we made the LED glow a L1 detail. Perhaps we should revisit that for the helmet and push those to L2 and make adjustments for the red on the aerators.

Around the edges of the light/dark areas there are shadows on the darker portions, along the edge where the dark turns to the lighter color. Seeing as the texture is completely flat it's hard to say for certain, I just assumed that the artists intended for the armor to look "layered", and that the lighter color pieces were slightly higher, casting a shadow onto the darker parts. But I'm just making assumptions there. Again, the game model is flat, it doesn't really have any defined texture, so... who knows? Either works. 

The chest bolt greeblies I definitely think are supposed to be silver. The texture image has a highlight on them like a shine, which to make makes it look like they're suposed to look like silver/metal.

Should the black pill slots on the right breast be added to the standards? Perhaps as L2?

For the red parts, I would definitely not see a problem with L1 having the aerator interiors, chest bolt interiors and knee bolt interiors painted red, and L2 requiring LED lights. Oota Goota painted the interior of his helmet aerators red and they look alright.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

On 9/23/2020 at 4:27 AM, Blue Hatter said:

Around the edges of the light/dark areas there are shadows on the darker portions, along the edge where the dark turns to the lighter color. Seeing as the texture is completely flat it's hard to say for certain, I just assumed that the artists intended for the armor to look "layered", and that the lighter color pieces were slightly higher, casting a shadow onto the darker parts. But I'm just making assumptions there. Again, the game model is flat, it doesn't really have any defined texture, so... who knows? Either works. 

The chest bolt greeblies I definitely think are supposed to be silver. The texture image has a highlight on them like a shine, which to make makes it look like they're suposed to look like silver/metal.

Should the black pill slots on the right breast be added to the standards? Perhaps as L2?

For the red parts, I would definitely not see a problem with L1 having the aerator interiors, chest bolt interiors and knee bolt interiors painted red, and L2 requiring LED lights. Oota Goota painted the interior of his helmet aerators red and they look alright.

Thanks for your feedback! Took me a little bit to circle back to this with life but appreciate the feedback.

I say for the texture being flat that is the best that we are going to have to do with it appearing layered, rather than actually layered unless it is done. I think the appearance should be more than enough over the actual construction, as long as it looks good.

I agree with the chest bolts and having the text say silver is the way to go for L1 and then have a more metal like appearance for L2, as it has that effect in the reference images.

The black pill shows should be added to L1, absolutely, as they are visible on the reference images. I'd say they may be painted or a decal for L1 and then for L2 they should be an actual indention with either black decals or paint. That is my suggestion.

I'll go ahead and make adjustments to the text as a whole later (mostly the helmet) to move the LED parts to the L2 requirements so that we have the consistency.

[Blue Hatter]

11 hours ago, IcyTrooper said:

Thanks for your feedback! Took me a little bit to circle back to this with life but appreciate the feedback.

I say for the texture being flat that is the best that we are going to have to do with it appearing layered, rather than actually layered unless it is done. I think the appearance should be more than enough over the actual construction, as long as it looks good.

I agree with the chest bolts and having the text say silver is the way to go for L1 and then have a more metal like appearance for L2, as it has that effect in the reference images.

The black pill shows should be added to L1, absolutely, as they are visible on the reference images. I'd say they may be painted or a decal for L1 and then for L2 they should be an actual indention with either black decals or paint. That is my suggestion.

I'll go ahead and make adjustments to the text as a whole later (mostly the helmet) to move the LED parts to the L2 requirements so that we have the consistency.

That all sounds good to me!