New CRL Development - Mud Trooper

[Aircool]

Are there any measurements from the boxes of the lower belt? 
Small, medium and the Drop boxes?

[JAFO[TX]]

4 hours ago, Aircool said:

Are there any measurements from the boxes of the lower belt? 
Small, medium and the Drop boxes?

It's important to remember that the lower belt boxes are not simply rectangle boxes but have shape and form. They have bevels and are thinner in some sections, e.g. the Standard Dropbox has a smaller bottom section when compared  to the top. 

With that in mind here are the approx. dimensions of the boxes - L x W x D

Small = 76mm x 26.5mm x 17.8mm

Medium = 79.6mm x 35.5mm x 17.8mm

Standard Dropbox = 114mm x 53.2mm (upper) 47.6mm (lower) x 16.8mm (upper) 11.2mm (lower)

Long Dropbox = 205mm x 52.2mm x 16.6mm

 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

ive gone back through the discussion about four pages in an effort to catch up.  Two things come to mind:

While we do strive for accuracy, we can paint outselves into a box when we use specific item codes.   What is available now in your part of the world may not be in two years in another part of the world.  Rebel Commandos outside of the US deal with that all of the time with the paint colors and boot availability (Import duties and all) , and when I was judging I had to keep that in mind. 

I have also seen GMLS read something so critically that what was accepted by almost any other GMl was refused because it edid not meet the exact model number or description in the GMLs opinion.  Ive dealt with that plenty of times.  

There has been a lot of work put into this, and it will be approved as a CRL,  but we want it to be right, as well as reasonable to obtain, and these points have been brought up on most of the parts of this discussion. 

[ISBEAR[501st]]

Do we move on again? been no new replies in a few days

[JAFO[TX]]

6 hours ago, ISBEAR said:

Do we move on again? been no new replies in a few days

I vote let’s go to next items on the list.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

I am moved BUT do not have internet service setup yet (hopefully this weekend).  Using a temp hotspot to post tonight lol.  Anyways, here is where we are at then regarding the updates:

 

PARKA:

• Russian Plash Palatka Style.
• Parka is Dyed or Painted black.
• Metal grommets shall be painted or covered with leather to mimic leather grommets.
• Tied or otherwise attached under the chest armor and worn to cover the back plate.
• Parka shall be heavily weathered.

OPTIONAL: Level 2 certification (if applicable)

• Ring Grommets shall be leather to match reference photos.

UPPER BELT - LEATHER:

The belt is constructed from a non-textured leather or a leather-like material.

Approximately 2" (50.8 mm) in width, up to 3" (76.2 mm) is acceptable.

There are no loops on the belt.

A single large snap or rivet is visible approximately 1" (25.4 mm) from the buckle.

The belt may be worn with the snap to the right or left of the wearer.

The buckle is a standard officer buckle.

Buckle is adorned with an Imperial Code Disk at the center.

Please refer to the Imperial Buckle reference page for information on accurate and inaccurate style buckles.

Two boxes shall be present on either side of buckle. Dimensions are approximately 2" (50.8mm) by 3" (76.2mm) by 1" (24.5mm).

Boxes shall be painted the same color as the chest plate and heavily weathered.

Belt shall be weathered appropriately.

LOWER BELT - WEBBING:

Belt is black and is made from two nylon web straps sewn together with a zig-zag pattern which is approximately 3" (76.2mm) wide.

The belt features five boxes.  1 x standard drop box, 2 x small, 2 x medium, 1 x long drop box.

Boxes shall be painted the same colour as the chest plate and moderately weathered.

Belt shall be worn loose across lower abdomen.

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Long drop box is hinged

[RAIDER[COTG]]

I know several of you are chomping at the bit…we will take critiques and input still on the parka and belts (and I'd like to give everything a good look over once I have solid internet where pictures don't take forever to load)…but in the meantime we can move forward with the armor pieces.  Let's begin with the shoulders and biceps.  Here is what was initially proposed:

Shoulder Bells

• Each shoulder bell is a mirror image of the other.
• The detailing of each shoulder bell is asymmetrical.
• Shoulders should have a longer flat edge that covers top of bicep with a shorter flat edge that connects to chest armor
• Shallow grooves are present in a pattern matching the photo.
• Shoulders are painted olive grey with moderate weathering.

Biceps

• Bicep cover strips are raised and beveled with a added strip layer on top.
• Left bicep is olive grey with moderate weathering.
• Right bicep armor is painted red with three yellow squares on the cover strip, with moderate weathering.
• Biceps shall have moderate weathering.

[JAFO[TX]]

14 minutes ago, Raider said:

I know several of you are chomping at the bit…we will take critiques and input still on the parka and belts (and I'd like to give everything a good look over once I have solid internet where pictures don't take forever to load)…but in the meantime we can move forward with the armor pieces.  Let's begin with the shoulders and biceps.  Here is what was initially proposed:

Shoulder Bells

• Each shoulder bell is a mirror image of the other.
• The detailing of each shoulder bell is asymmetrical.
• Shoulders should have a longer flat edge that covers top of bicep with a shorter flat edge that connects to chest armor
• Shallow grooves are present in a pattern matching the photo.
• Shoulders are painted olive grey with moderate weathering.

Biceps

• Bicep cover strips are raised and beveled with a added strip layer on top.
• Left bicep is olive grey with moderate weathering.
• Right bicep armor is painted red with three yellow squares on the cover strip, with moderate weathering.
• Biceps shall have moderate weathering.

Looks fine regarding details.

Given we are now getting in to the hard parts section we just need to be consistent as to how we refer to the colour. Is Olive Grey the best descriptor? Do we even use the screen used Pantone 350U as a reference/indicator? We know the green used was a matte so it might be worth adding that in to the mix, e.g. Parts should be painted Green Matte (see Pantone 350U as a guide), and weathered moderately.

In addition do we want to put in Lvl 2 descriptor for bicep colouring?

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

• Right Bicep Red color is Toyota Red 3E5.
• Yellow color is Montana Gold Shock Yellow.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

IMO and based on ten years in the club working with GMLs, who will be the final authority to approve it, I see two things with colors:

1: its GREAT.  Tells you exactly what to get, and GMLs will love you for using the colors listed in the CRL. 

2: it defines the only acceptable color per the CRL when it comes to the L2 standard.  Ive seen time and again where overzealous GMLs reject things because of how defined it was, especially internationally.  In my experience using the term "such as Pantone350U" will solve problems for approval down the road. Its a very small change but adds up over time. 

[JAFO[TX]]

2 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

IMO and based on ten years in the club working with GMLs, who will be the final authority to approve it, I see two things with colors:

1: its GREAT.  Tells you exactly what to get, and GMLs will love you for using the colors listed in the CRL. 

2: it defines the only acceptable color per the CRL.  Ive seen time and again where GMLs reject things because of how defined it was, especially internationally.  In my experience using the term "such as Pantone350U" will solve problems for approval down the road. Its a very small change but adds up over time. 

Having worked as a GML I agree that better information and less ambiguity helps get to a decision faster.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Theres certainly a happy medium.  I joined when it was mostly text and a crappy picture.  Thats what I had as a Rebel Infantry judge.  It gave me leeway when I had applicants from Eastern Europe that could get something close to right, but were unable to obtain US goods due to import duties and did their best with paint colors.  

 

EDIT-

back to the CRL proposal, looking it over, and the past discussion, other than what weve just discussed here I agree with what I see, unless Im just completely missing something. 

[JAFO[TX]]

1 minute ago, Blackwatch said:

Theres certainly a happy medium.  I joined when it was mostly text and a crappy picture.  Thats what I had as a Rebel Infantry judge.  It gave me leeway when I had applicants from Eastern Europe that could get something close to right, but were unable to obtain US goods due to import duties and did their best with paint colors.  

The good thing is we know EXACTLY what base colour was used - Colorite Techno grip 350U Green Matt. Trouble is, it would be hard for anyone to buy from the supplier. At least with a guide as to what the colour should look like everyone around the world should be able to get within a reasonable colour range.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

i looked up the pantone. There ARE model colors that shade, but model paint isnt very tough. 

 

[amcclary[TX]]

If you look up Colorrite Techno Grip 350U, the 350U is just a Pantone color which is a military Olive Green.  Expecting people to buy that specific paint would be a big boom for that company but not needed.  Greens are also extremely hard to photograph and are affected by light.  GMLs would never be able to really tell the exact color unless a Pantone chip was included in the photo which just isn't going to happen.  The best way to put this in the CRL is  "an Olive Green mat which is close in color to Pantone 350U"  

The biceps should also offer the option of white with gold stripes and the red design for medics.

Biceps

• Bicep cover strips are raised and beveled with a added strip layer on top.
• Left bicep is olive grey with moderate weathering.
• Right bicep armor is painted red with three yellow squares on the cover strip, with moderate weathering or White with gold stripes and red markings as shown for Mudtrooper medics.
• Biceps shall have moderate weathering.

[JAFO[TX]]

Basically you’re saying the same thing as already said Andrew.

If you take time to review the CRL front page you’ll see the Medic bicep is listed under optional.

[amcclary[TX]]

Ok are we reviewing what is on Page 1 of this thread or what is being posted at the end of the thread? 

[JAFO[TX]]

We are reviewing what’s being presented to us in sections. I’m just clarifying that the Medic bicep is covered off as an ‘optional’ in the v1 CRL snd I think that’s the right place for it.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Lets focus on what we need to approve for base level.  We can go down each side path once the base is determined. 

[amcclary[TX]]

Whats next to review.  Lets get this CRL rolling.  The public is getting restless. 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Is there any more input on Raiders proposal on the biceps and shoulders? We need to get that firmly established before moving on.

[amcclary[TX]]

I'm good with the shoulders and biceps.

[Aircool]

Take the Backplate next, there  are so many questions about it.

Here a example of the Patroltrooper Backplate from the complete CRL.

Same armor, from the same Movie. Here is no foam in the cutouts for the arms.

And the inserts are black.

 

 

 

 

 

[JAFO[TX]]

34 minutes ago, Aircool said:

Take the Backplate next, there  are so many questions about it.

Here a example of the Patroltrooper Backplate from the complete CRL.

Same armor, from the same Movie. Here is no foam in the cutouts for the arms.

And the inserts are black.

 

 

 

 

 

The MT backplate is virtually the same to the one you e shown here but some of the detail is different.

I’ll update on the detail later but for now the back is all green and no black is present.

There are two hose connectors the top.

There are two black foam ‘wings’ ala the ST.

There is also a ‘drop down’ loop through which both belts are threaded.

This info is based on an actual kit rather than the Jakks toy which is far from 100% correct.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Weve jumped from the biceps and bells to the back plate. is there any thing further to be discussed on the biceps or backplate? 

Is everyone happy with this text for the CRL? If not, now is the time to speak up before we move on to the next part.  As mentioned above Medics have their own bullet at the bottom of the proposed CRL on Page 1 of the topic. 

Shoulder Bells

• Each shoulder bell is a mirror image of the other.
• The detailing of each shoulder bell is asymmetrical.
• Shoulders should have a longer flat edge that covers top of bicep with a shorter flat edge that connects to chest armor
• Shallow grooves are present in a pattern matching the photo.
• Shoulders are painted olive grey with moderate weathering.

Biceps

• Bicep cover strips are raised and beveled with a added strip layer on top.
• Left bicep is olive grey with moderate weathering.
• Right bicep armor is painted red with three yellow squares on the cover strip, with moderate weathering.
• Biceps shall have moderate weathering

 

[JAFO[TX]]

15 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

Weve jumped from the biceps and bells to the back plate. is there any thing further to be discussed on the biceps or backplate? 

Is everyone happy with this text for the CRL? If not, now is the time to speak up before we move on to the next part.  As mentioned above Medics have their own bullet at the bottom of the proposed CRL on Page 1 of the topic. 

Shoulder Bells

• Each shoulder bell is a mirror image of the other.
• The detailing of each shoulder bell is asymmetrical.
• Shoulders should have a longer flat edge that covers top of bicep with a shorter flat edge that connects to chest armor
• Shallow grooves are present in a pattern matching the photo.
• Shoulders are painted olive grey with moderate weathering.

Biceps

• Bicep cover strips are raised and beveled with a added strip layer on top.
• Left bicep is olive grey with moderate weathering.
• Right bicep armor is painted red with three yellow squares on the cover strip, with moderate weathering.
• Biceps shall have moderate weathering

 

Looks good, though I do think we need to address the colour reference at the end of this process, and before the CRL goes live.