PROPOSED CRL MODIFICATION: Inferno Squad Del Meeko

[rickyboyblue[CMD-DCA]]

14 hours ago, Raider said:

@Blackwatch just wrap up the compad when you can.

I spoke to a staff member at JRS that will be assigned to reviewing this with us...he asked if we could hold temporarily on the shared parts till he has full clearance from his DL.

For now...we can focus on the Del-specific parts (not a forever wait...just for a bit)...so after the compad let's move to the tactical vest.

Tactical vest.  Yes.  Specifically the "ribbed" shoulder straps...

[TX-20113[501st]]

So, i took some screenshots of the Tactical vest. I will tell some things for each pic and tell my thoughts about where to keep an eye. Excited for you opinion, my friends

First and for me one the most important things to clarify in the CRL is, the fillings of the tactical vest. As far i remember the actual CRL's telling thag there has to be a thin ABS Front cover on each of those packages. Its totally wrong. A small plastic stripe (can be 3D Printed and painted or thick ABS Stripe) is attached on the upper side of the front of each package. I did a 3D Print of 4mm × 12 mm × 68 mm. The packages should be made of the same canvas like material as the Vest itself. 

[areilly]

Here's some views of the in-game model of the tac vest. Like the other models, some of the details are only in the textures. Annoyingly, the tool I'm using to extract all this is having a problem extracting the vest texture,  so for those the in-game screenshots are the best reference.  I'll get some measurements as well.

 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

@TX-20113 Can we get some shots of the straps as well front/back?

[TX-20113[501st]]

@Raider Of course! 

[TX-20113[501st]]

One more thing i have to add. We should notice that the Scout pouches, which are actually mentioned at the Scout Belt position in the actual CRL, should be attached on the horizontal back strap. 

Here you can see where it is actually mentioned

And here you can see that it is attached on the horizontal back strap of the tactical vest ?

[MahXPrime[501st]]

Agreed on ABS stripes
Agreed on texture, anyway as mentionned earlier they've used the same likely.. everywhere, so they spare game's ressource

Concerning the pouches I believe far more in a 3d model collision issue (objets going through another one, "ghost/noclip" mode) than an actual attachment of these on the tactical vest strap
They are actually, just like the holster, just like the MP40 pouches, simply " stuck " or "dropped" over the other elements with no actual attachment system (no loops either, it all holds with magic)





So we have to choose what does make sense. It's not an ultra detailed 3d model so we also have to adapt it to Real Life by assuming logic stuff. It's not because we don't see loops there should be none, the pouches are not held on belts with glue or rivets, the logic here would clearly be loops.. Simple, convenient, logic, I mean, let's not over-amplify difficulities on an already quite complex uniform

IMO it doesn't make sense to attach pouches on the tactical vest strap, as IRL, they will likely hang from it and won't fit closely onto the body as they look in ref pics, which won't give a clean render. It will also obstruct the quick release buckle of the tactical vest strap

 

[areilly]

21 minutes ago, MahXPrime said:

They are actually, just like the holster, just like the MP40 pouches, simply " stuck " or "dropped" over the other elements with no actual attachment system (no loops either, it all holds with magic)

Another view, I can't find any clear attachments either. Just magic.

 

[TX-20113[501st]]

52 minutes ago, MahXPrime said:

Agreed on ABS stripes
Agreed on texture, anyway as mentionned earlier they've used the same likely.. everywhere, so they spare game's ressource

Concerning the pouches I believe far more in a 3d model collision issue (objets going through another one, "ghost/noclip" mode) than an actual attachment of these on the tactical vest strap
They are actually, just like the holster, just like the MP40 pouches, simply " stuck " or "dropped" over the other elements with no actual attachment system (no loops either, it all holds with magic)





So we have to choose what does make sense. It's not an ultra detailed 3d model so we also have to adapt it to Real Life by assuming logic stuff. It's not because we don't see loops there should be none, the pouches are not held on belts with glue or rivets, the logic here would clearly be loops.. Simple, convenient, logic, I mean, let's not over-amplify difficulities on an already quite complex uniform

IMO it doesn't make sense to attach pouches on the tactical vest strap, as IRL, they will likely hang from it and won't fit closely onto the body as they look in ref pics, which won't give a clean render. It will also obstruct the quick release buckle of the tactical vest strap

 

So i think we can make it the wearers choice where to attache it, as long at it looks similar in both ways ? i am wearing my pouches on that strap and it works pretty well ? 

[TX-20113[501st]]

31 minutes ago, areilly said:

Another view, I can't find any clear attachments either. Just magic.

 

Its the force ???? 

 

No, seriously, the position of the pouches in this view shows clearly that, if there would be any loop in reality, it wouldnt hold the pouches. They would fall over, so from this view it makes more sense to me to attache these Pouches on the horizontal strap of the vest. ?  

[TX-20113[501st]]

The scout belt is too far below to hold the pouch in the right position

[MahXPrime[501st]]

7 minutes ago, TX-20113 said:

So i think we can make it the wearers choice where to attache it, as long at it looks similar in both ways ? i am wearing my pouches on that strap and it works pretty well ? 

I fully agree on wearer's choice as long as the render is clean & fine !
Let's be flexible for this matter as it can't  be settled, both options seem to work, on mine I've got them on main belts and it's just fine, not too low as the loops have a nice placement
Anyway from 3d files we can't objectively say anything definitive really, both straps/belts go through the pouches but at different spots so it's all magic & random

[TX-20113[501st]]

3 minutes ago, MahXPrime said:

I fully agree on wearer's choice as long as the render is clean & fine !
Let's be flexible for this matter as it can't  be settled, both options seem to work, on mine I've got them on main belts and it's just fine, not too low as the loops have a nice placement
Anyway from 3d files we can't objectively say anything definitive really, both straps/belts go through the pouches but at different spots so it's all magic & random

Agreement ??

[RAIDER[COTG]]

We will pause here till @Blackwatch is able to catch up the "finalized" (not really finalized lol) text thread with what has been covered regarding the flightsuit, compad, and now this vest.

[RAIDER[COTG]]

Bu the way, @MahXPrime will we be able to have a suitable model to update the pics once this is ready?

[MahXPrime[501st]]

20 hours ago, Raider said:

Bu the way, @MahXPrime will we be able to have a suitable model to update the pics once this is ready?

Oh yes we will, keeping my word  If I have troubles regarding that I'll inform

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Ok just got a chance to read up. the last coupe of weeks have been busy. I work out of state at an intercontinental airport, and we are still working, and then when I travel home Im stacked with house projects.  Back to the forums, yay!

My view on the attachment of the pouches etc.  Likely the person who orders or has the pouches made will go with whichever attachment system it comes with. If its MOLLE loops its going to be loose and flop. If its ALICE clips its tight. If its straps , it can go either way, it just depends.  For L1 approval the look should be neat , not slopply/floppy/jalopy.  For Specialist clearly it has to appear to have grown in place. 

 

Looking forward to model photos. 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

38 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

Ok just got a chance to read up. the last coupe of weeks have been busy. I work out of state at an intercontinental airport, and we are still working, and then when I travel home Im stacked with house projects.  Back to the forums, yay!

My view on the attachment of the pouches etc.  Likely the person who orders or has the pouches made will go with whichever attachment system it comes with. If its MOLLE loops its going to be loose and flop. If its ALICE clips its tight. If its straps , it can go either way, it just depends.  For L1 approval the look should be neat , not slopply/floppy/jalopy.  For Specialist clearly it has to appear to have grown in place. 

 

Looking forward to model photos. 

Is our latest text draft up to date with edits made for compad and flightsuit?  If so, lets focus on getting the tactical vest text complete

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Ok, so now we have the flightsuit at change log 1.3 on the previous page. 

We have discussed the commpad and have a working model of it.  we have not talked about the gloves, those are next in CRL order.  Lets get those hammered out. This part should be quick, once we are in agreement we move to the next section. 

Commpad and Glove text discussion

Change LOG 1

Additions in orange

Compad

• Rectangular communications pad with patterned painted details matching reference photo.
• Commpad base color is silver, metallic grey, or weathered silver. 
• Compad is worn with the four large, rectangular buttons pointing towards the wearer’s elbow.  
• Commpad is rectangular in shape and fits within the commpad pocket window. Size is 2.5"  (63.5mm) x 2" (50mm). 
•  Compad is fully visible above the glove, facing outward on the arm. 
•  
• 
  Gauntlet Gloves

  - Black, leather or leather-like material, enclosed fingered, non-textured, (normal leather grain/texture/lines are acceptable) fitted gauntlet style.

  - No buckles, straps, or decorative stitching.

  - There is a split on the bottom gauntlet portion that runs from the glove opening to the wrist that is bridged with leather or leather-like material

•  

   

  - Gloves are made of leather. 
   

[TX-20113[501st]]

1 hour ago, Blackwatch said:

Compad

• Rectangular communications pad with patterned painted details matching reference photo.
• Commpad base color is silver, metallic grey, or weathered silver. 
• Compad is worn with the four large, rectangular buttons pointing towards the wearer’s elbow.  
• Commpad is rectangular in shape and fits within the commpad pocket window. Size is 2.5"  (63.5mm) x 2" (50mm). 
•  Compad is fully visible above the glove, facing outward on the arm. 
•  

We should also add that the Inferno Squad Compad isn't the same as the TIE pilot's. There are several differences. For example, the four buttons on top don't have the same size, the black ones are a bit smaller than the red and the white button. And that white button below the wholed field isn't splittet and it looks less rectangular than it looks on the TIE pilot's. Stronger weathering can be an option too. I think these details can be level 2. ?

 

For basic approval the TIE pilot's compad can still be accepted 

[RAIDER[COTG]]

On 4/10/2020 at 1:23 AM, TX-20113 said:

We should also add that the Inferno Squad Compad isn't the same as the TIE pilot's. There are several differences. For example, the four buttons on top don't have the same size, the black ones are a bit smaller than the red and the white button. And that white button below the wholed field isn't splittet and it looks less rectangular than it looks on the TIE pilot's. Stronger weathering can be an option too. I think these details can be level 2. ?

 

For basic approval the TIE pilot's compad can still be accepted 

Sounds good.  @Blackwatch When you can please adjust and then move all completed portions to the "finalized" thread just so I can see what we have worked through.  Specifically, I need a recap of where we are with the vest before we move on (gloves and compad seem fine for now).  Once this vest is set we can move on to the belts and the connected components...finally circling back to the armor and boots.  Thanks!!!

 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

On 4/9/2020 at 11:13 PM, Blackwatch said:

 

Commpad and Glove text discussion

Change LOG 1.1

Additions in orange

Compad

• Rectangular communications pad with patterned painted details matching reference photo.
• Commpad is worn with the four large, rectangular buttons pointing towards the wearer’s elbow.  
• Commpad is rectangular in shape and fits within the commpad pocket window.
• Details of the commpad differ from the standard TIE Pilot commpad.
• Black buttons are smaller than the red and white buttons; the white button located adjacent to the button with multiple dimples may be a single piece, instead of split in two segments. 
• Commpad base color is silver, metallic grey, or weathered silver. 
• Commpad size is 2.5"  (63.5mm) x 2" (50mm). 
• Compad is fully visible above the glove, facing outward on the arm. 
• For basic approval (Level 1) a standard TIE pilot style commpad painted and worn to match game references may be accepted for use. F
• OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
  
  + Commpad  shall be Inferno Squad style with correct button sizes, layout and colors.  Two black buttons at the top of the pad are smaller than
•    the white and red buttons. The white button adjacent to the button with holes/dimples is not split. 
• + Commpad is moderately weathered / stained. 
• 
  Gauntlet Gloves

  - Black, leather or leather-like material, enclosed fingered, non-textured, (normal leather grain/texture/lines are acceptable) fitted gauntlet style.

  - No buckles, straps, or decorative stitching.

  - There is a split on the bottom gauntlet portion that runs from the glove opening to the wrist that is bridged with leather or leather-like material

•  

   

  - Gloves are made of leather. 
   

 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

56 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

56 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

ARMOR and Tac Vest discussion. 

theres already been a lot of discussion about the vest.  This is copied from page 1 of the topic   

 

Armor

• - Armor consists of front and back pieces with two shoulder straps anchored by wedge connectors.
  •      - Molded rubber, ribbed shoulder straps are acceptable.
• - Back plate contains detailed "O II" design.
• - There is a small, circular indentation below the right shoulder strap connector on the back plate.
• - Armor may contain lightly done silver weathering but is not required. 
  + glossy black in color
  
  OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
  
  + Made from the game's 3d model and scaled to the wearer. Armor scaling & strapping must bring together a fitted render
  + Too visible weathering is not accurate, must be quite discreet

 

====================================================================================================================

Tactical Vest   (VERY TECHNICAL PART....MAY ADD MORE OR UPDATE WRITING.. )

• - The tactical vest is black Cordura nylon (Flyye Law Enforcement chest rig is most accurate).
• - There are three M4-M16 magazine pouches.
  • - The ammo slots hold one hanging box from the front belt and one rectangular case is filled in each pouch.-> useless, valid description is just below \/
  • - The 3 "M4" Pouches contain padded cloth utility rectangular pouches with a thin ABS front cover painted gloss black, construction matching reference
• - An AR-15 black single pouch is attached to the right side of vest. -> 100% wrong
• + There is a black custom made pouch on the right side of the vest matching reference, held by an elastic strip (about 2.5cm wide)
  - The main shoulder straps consist of ribbed leather or leather-like material.
• - The front buckles are tri-glide buckles.
• - There is a an approximately 1.5 inch by 1 inch specific buckle greeblie above the tri-glide buckles on each side.+matching reference 
  + shoulder strapping forms an X a little below the back of neck of the wearer. Strips form diagonal lines in the back, loop into a quick release buckle to go up in the back and end in a V shape. Adjusting tri-glides are present.  - Really see Ref #3.. 
  + Waist strip is attached to the vest with a quick release buckle. The strip is looped into its quick release buckle. Adjusting tri-glide is centered in the back Ref #4
  + After crossing in the back, shoulder strips are attached on the sides of the vest with quick release buckles
  
  OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
  
  + Every strapping strips are made of leather - if Flyye chest rig is used, every nylon strapping are replaced
  + Front shoulder strapping is made of 3 layers of leather strips glued/attached together (width : 3.5cm / 2.5 cm / 1.5 cm), this construction stops a little before the strips are drawing an X in the back and continues into a single 2.5cm strip.
  + There is a little rectangle of leather glued/attached on the 3 layers construction about 5cm above the buckle greeblie on the front (both sides). Ref #5
  + Front tri-glides are attached to the vest with leather loops (about 3.5cm wide), same goes for the quick release buckles also attached to the vest with leather loops (2.5 cm wide)  - replacing Flyye nylon loops
  + Waist strip width is 2.5 cm. 
  + Specific tri-glide buckles holding the vest on the front are made from the game's 3d model, the same goes for the specific buckles greeblies glued/attached to the leather strips just over the tri-glides - Ref #6
  + The vest is fitted to the wearer, loose strapping/render is Not accurate
  
  Can check Ref #9 also

 

ARMOR and TAC VEST CHANGE LOG 1

ARMOR 

 

TAC VEST 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TX-20113[501st]]

2 hours ago, Blackwatch said:

The 3 "M4" Pouches contain padded cloth utility rectangular pouches with a thin ABS front cover painted gloss black, construction matching reference

The ABS Cover is clearly not accurate (as seen in the screenshots i've posted). The 3 Pouches contain rectangular packages made of similar textured fabric. On the upper part of the front of each package there is a plastic stripe (3D Printed or ABS) the measures i've used where 4mm×12mm×68mm 

[Captain Radu]

Greeting Spec-Ops, this is my first post here and sorry I am very late to the discussion, I feel like a mad scientist that just ran into the room. I am not on forums much and spend most my time in my studio

I am Radu, I am one of the fabricators in the 501st. I have been in for about 8 years now. TK5792. I have been a fabricator for about 5 years making 100’s of TIEs and Inferno. I would like to say first off that you for updating the CRL, you are doing a great job. It was horribly rushed and was out too soon. I worked with Jason Poulin XO of the JRS on it from the beginning, I only handled the armor. There are things that were not right from the beginning. I was hired by LFL and E/A to make the Inferno Squad for the Star Wars show. They wanted all armor to be like Iden, I still have the ammo vest for Del used in the photoshoot, we knew it was wrong. We ask So Cal member to borrow his TX Scout belt for the shoot, we knew it was incorrect. This picture was take right after the CRL photo

Here the Star Wars show, TJ is hilarious. I had a hard time putting that vest on him

A artist from LFL sent me images of the Rogue 1 TIE helmet, right after it was vacformed, before assembly and before it was painted. Anovos designed it. Had the parts printed and molds were made I was given those images. Anovos used those molds to make their current Original Trilogy TIE. It’s incorrect. Original Trilogy TIE are hard to mass produce, due to the uneven wonky nature of the TK faceplate. They used their Rogue 1 molds to make them, The helmet is symmetrical and used Rogue 1 ear caps, The X-wing helmet is also Rogue 1 style with the gas mask mount. It is cut like the original trilogy, and has visible screw hardware.

 

After the game was released I was out of the discussions for the CRL. I was only concerned about getting the helmet and armor right. I made 7 for LFL they kept 2 they didn’t use for the actors for the archives. I completely re made those molds once the game came out. Took me a few months to get set up again and I released my Rogue 1 TIE first. I was hired to make miniatures for the Mr. Roger’s movie. My Inferno was delayed. I spent a lot of time to get the details just right. We used the character load screen for Iden for the armor. I only used cut scenes for Del.

If you are members of the JRS/Spec -Ops  Inferno Group on facebook, I wrote a very detailed description on helmet differences for Rogue 1, Inferno, and Original Trilogy. The 3d file that AL3D made is a very low resolution game skin. It missed the details in the ear caps. Jintalol Wang has the best 3D file. I worked with him on getting those details right

Helmet differences
https://www.facebook.com/groups/225532947949771/permalink/571182360051493/

This is my Helmet Kit, shows all the parts and what is included

https://www.facebook.com/groups/225532947949771/permalink/572246059945123/

I read over what was written and would like to add my thoughts on my armor.

Helmet:
1. Rubber Trim: I used 2 different rubber trim, A thicker one in the back approximately 1’ wide. And the front about 1/2” no rubber trim on the ear caps. R1 had it all 1/2 and none under the ear caps. You can see it on Iden’s load screen

2. No Visible screw hardware. The CRL currently has screws on the forehead, this is a characteristic of the original trilogy. Anovos did it too. The Rogue 1 helmet has no visible screw hardware. Your current refference has screws in the forehead. I have had GMLs require it and ruined commissions.

3. No Visible Gaps: Rogue 1 has no visible gaps on the sides of the faceplate. Original trilogy is cut like an X-WIng, Rogue 1 the faceplate is flush with the helmet.

4. Ear Caps are unique to Rogue 1. I go into great detail on my post. The Rogue 1 ear caps has the gas mask bracket mount visiable, Original trilogy does not, it covers it.There is a small circular bump above it, its the mount for the strap for the gas mask. Anovos TIE and AT-AT driver has those R1 ear caps. You mention the gas brackets on the helmet it is also what makes the ear caps unique. The disc greeblee is also recessed. Original trilogy is flush, R1 and Inferno is about 1/8" recessed.

4. No silver weathering.  Inferno armor is Plastoid, it’s a polymer, not an alloy like Beskar. All Imperial Armor is Plastoid, not one helmet has silver weathering, Vader’s helmet melted because it was plastoid. This has been discussed for years and Sandtroopers have specific rules on weathering, Death troopers and TIEs can’t use silver weathering either. I can’t see why Inferno would be the only helmets that are alloy. This is the one thing a strongly disagree. The game originally had lots of glitches on weathering they got too messed up as the game progressed and it was something they admitted and fixed.

Wookiepedia list Inferno as Plastoid. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Plastoid

 

Del’s Belt.
I have the wrong greebliee on the detonator, but this is my Del Belt
Del Mekko Belt:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/225532947949771/permalink/570780466758349/

Over 1 1/2 years ago I worked with Sebastian John on my Del Belt. We looked at the game’s version of the Scout, It has no Flak vest. I made exactly what he wanted. Del’s Belt is not a Scout belt. I used 2” leather Sebastian has the screen shots of the belt I will try and upload.

1.Drop Box is curved. Regular Scots are flat faced, Del’s has a curve. I checked the Scout in the game and it is flat, something unique to Del.
2. Detonator caps are enclosed. The regular Scout caps has no back, I made a back cap that the tube fits inside.
3. Detonator greebliee. The back greebliee is different than the Scout It is available for 3d print at the JRS/SPec Ops. Facebook group. I make them from this file
https://www.facebook.com/groups/225532947949771/files/

Chest Boxes: https://www.facebook.com/groups/225532947949771/permalink/576783909491338/

Chest boxes did not light up at all in the game, Rogue 1’s did have the 2 red and white circles light up. I see the load screen being used as a reference. The helmet has the wrong greebliees on the tusk on the helmet. JRS did not want to use this as a reference and the same with the chest box.So many other things are inaccurate on that load screen image. There was a youtube video that listed that image as the 15 times BF broke cannon rules. EA admit they do not consult LFL and fixed their mistakes.

Square buttons never lit up onscreen and never in the game. You are allowed a light up chest box as a pilot, they must be turned off for approval photos, it is an option not a requirement. You will be denied if it is lit for approval.

 

Thanks for reading my suggestions and thoughts that I have had for over 3 years. It was last week 3 years ago we first learned of the Inferno Squad and I made my first prototype. I have made over 100 assembled Inferno Helmets and sold many kits. I have specialized in Pilots and it is pretty much all I make.I want to make what you guys want. I am a fabricator, I work for the Film union here in Pittsburgh. I work with art directors all the time, I take direction, it makes it easy. We all want to see the same thing happen, be the best we can and crush the rebellion.

Take care
Radu