Purge Trooper (Phase II) - Kenobi - Discussion

[dewannawanga[TX]]

I know we have not officially wrapped up the helmet but as far as the armor goes I should be able to help quite a bit. I have ordered a kit that was made as a direct copy from a screen used clone trooper from kenobi witch is the same base armor. I'll check back in a little while and see if the armor discussion has started! 

[smoszer]

Thanks Brent. We can always use another set of eyes in drafting the CRL. We're working from the top down. Once we have the helmet finished we'll move onto the belacova, neck seal and pauldron. We should be able to pick up what has already been written for other costumes with very little changes. Then we'll start with the armor pieces. I have a completed kit that we can also refer to.

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

For lvl2, only two real possibilities stand out:

- We've already got it written in lvl1 that the mouth plate can either be a separate part, or be made to appear like it is. For lvl2 we could specify that it must be a separate part?

- Potentially with the LEDs, I know it is not unusual for base clearances not to require electronics. Could we do the same here and only require functioning electronics for lvl2?

I would suggest to leave the teeth recesses as they are (recessed silver, not cut out), simply because the reference photos seem so clear. Unless anyone has any knowledge of any on set helmets being set up differently?

[dewannawanga[TX]]

with Kenyon killing it with the helmet i figured id move on to the neck seal and under suit to keep the ball rolling. the under suit appears to be the R1 tk under suit. the same under suit has been used for almost every imperial costume with armor since R1. it has been confirmed even the clone troopers in Kenobi utilized this under suit. as far as the neck seal it looks to be a standard ribbed TK neck seal but specifically made from vinyl. attached is a photo of a confirmed screen used under suit and the R1 under suit available at keeptrooping.com

[dewannawanga[TX]]

we are lucky enough to have an amazing reference photo of the under suit witch seems to match the R1 TK under suit exactly  

[dewannawanga[TX]]

not to jump way down the list but may be easier to knock out all the soft parts at once. according to screen used references the boots also seem to be black R1 style TK boots. same thing was done with the clones in Kenobi as well. one thing ive learned in the absurd amount of time and money i have spent prop building is Lucasfilm loves to surplus any costume parts they can haha. here are some examples from my research. 

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

So undersuit wise, we're looking at a plain black undersuit, with ribbed material attached over the shoulders, arms, knees?

I notice the keeptrooping version above also has it around the waist?

And the R1 TK CRL photos also show the ribbed material around the neck and upper chest.

Is it simplest to specify that the ribbed material must be present anywhere the undersuit is visible? Most importantly the shoulders, elbow, thighs and knees?

EDIT: The screen footage is unfortunately much too dark to be much use, but the Hot Toys seems to confirm that the ribbed material should be worn over the undersuit anywhere it is visible.

 

[dewannawanga[TX]]

Correct. I forgot to mention the neck seal has a bib sewn to it in the same ribbing material. That's what covers the chest and back. If you look closely at the purge under suit reference photo you can also see he has ribbing around his waist aswell.

[dewannawanga[TX]]

Oh also it should be noted all the ribs are horizontal on every part of the suit. This differs from the older clone trooper undersuit people might try to use so we would want to be sure to specify that

[smoszer]

I would agree with Brent that this is the R1 TK under suit with horizontal ribbing. If it's not the exact suit, it would be heavily based on it. I think the easiest thing to do would be to pull the description from another CRL that lists the under suit and review how its outlined so we can use it directly here or modify it, if we feel there are any differences. 

[dewannawanga[TX]]

Here is the crl from the rogue one TK. I'm not sure where they have gotten references of a 2 part suit. All the known sources are a one part but we can alter those details.

 

Under Suit

Black non-textured material, either one-piece or two-piece construction with no visible zippers or logos/designs.

 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

Top, where visible shall be fully ribbed with all horizontal ribbing on the arms, chest, and back. The centre of chest and back may be mesh as long as it is covered by armor.

Pants shall be black non-textured material and have horizontal ribbing at the knees only. Knee gaskets are allowed as long as they correctly match top ribbing material, spacing and color.

The hip section shall not have ribs.

OPTIONAL Level three certification (if applicable):

All ribbing on knees, arms, chest, and back must be stitched between each rib in detail and proportion to official references.

The armpit area shall have the correct hexagonal mesh detail 

[smoszer]

I'll let Daniel speak to this but I'm guessing that the idea is to make it accessible for those who can't find or afford the authentic under suit to still be able to get certified at a basic level. Most people can find black stretch material tops and leggings. That is my guess as to why it could be 2 pieces. The level 2 and level 3 outline show how someone can get the added details of the ribbing to more closely match the screen accurate under suit.

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

Yes, exactly so. Lvl2 clearance aims to immitate the screen used costumes as closely as possible, but we want to leave basic clearance as accessible as possible. If someone wears a two piece suit with all the correct ribbing on top, it would be impossible to tell the difference with all the armour worn on top. So if the final appearance is accurate, we don't mind too much how it is achieved 🙂

I know a lot of our own Garrison's TKs can pick up incredibly cheap undersuits from local supermarkets because of this flexibility. Similarly some people might have mobility issues which mean that a two piece suit is much easier to get into.

Just a quick question on the ribbing alignment, do we have full agreement that all of it is horizontal? The Hot Toys image above shows horizontal on the neck but vertical on the torso and arms. Have we some clear images of the Japan display to prove this wrong?

[smoszer]

Yes. I've watched the video of the Japan version of the Hot Toys live action costume and all of the ribbing is horizontal and very much matches the under suit image that Brent posted and follows the CRL exactly. I don't see any need to modify what's already written and being used. My thoughts are we lift and shift it to our CRL and move to the neck seal.

[IcyTrooper[CMD-DL]]

Also a side note for here as the discussion progresses, Spec Ops only has L2 as the highest level. We don't have L3 (despite the Sky Trooper, but that was due to the transfer from FISD to us).

With regards to the ribbing, the Hot Toys model is a supporting secondary reference. Whatever is seen on screen will be the first call for text. I think we only see that it is horizontal on the screen references, right?

[Ren]

 vanessa cater

keeptrooping suit

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

So, revising the R1 text below. I took out anything I couldn't see clear detail for in our current references. Is there anything that should be put back in? Eg. Hip section not being ribbed, mesh under armpits?

 Under Suit

Black non-textured material, either one-piece or two-piece construction with no visible zippers or logos/designs.

The suit, where visible between hard parts, shall be fully ribbed with all horizontal ribbing, matching the reference images.

[smoszer]

Thanks Ryan for clarifying that level 2 is the highest available. Does it make sense to keep the standard level as is and add combine the lvl. 2 and lvl. 3 together and edit it slightly? I'd be happy to draft something up and post it for the group to react to.

 

Also Ryan. I'm not sure if you read back through the thread but the Hot Toys Japan display is the actual armor from the series that was displayed with a number of other screen worn costumes. We've been referencing it because it has a number of images and a short video that was taken during the event. This has the best natural lighting and has allowed us to see some better detail.

[smoszer]

Under Suit

Black non-textured material, either one-piece or two-piece construction with no visible logos/designs. Zippers are allowed but must not be visible.

 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

All visible areas shall be fully ribbed with horizontal ribbing from shoulder to forearms and across chest, hips and knees. Forearms, waist, thighs and calves may be a black, non-textured material. The center of chest and back may be mesh as long as it is covered by armor. Knee seals are allowed as long as they correctly match top ribbing material, spacing and color.

[Equuspolo]

So the undersuit is absolutely ribbed.  The imperial boots undersuit will work.

The suit is a one piece suit. 
 

On 6/25/2023 at 1:41 AM, Ren said:

So the undersuit is a one piece:  here is my suit.  It is also the suit for the live action clones and purge trooper 

 

 

 

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

On 7/2/2023 at 6:34 PM, smoszer said:

Under Suit

Black non-textured material, either one-piece or two-piece construction with no visible logos/designs. Zippers are allowed but must not be visible.

 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):

All visible areas shall be fully ribbed with horizontal ribbing from shoulder to forearms and across chest, hips and knees. Forearms, waist, thighs and calves may be a black, non-textured material. The center of chest and back may be mesh as long as it is covered by armor. Knee seals are allowed as long as they correctly match top ribbing material, spacing and color.

Most of that is perfectly backed up by the great photos below, thanks a million.

Just a few things from that TK CRL to consider:

1) Mention of "mesh" material on the chest and back. Doesn't seem to be any evidence of this in the photos we have so far? If it's just an option to keep heat levels down in the costume, I'd be okay with it being allowed for basic clearance.

2) "Forearms, waist, thighs and calves may be a black, non-textured material." It has already been specified that the base suit should meet this description - no need to repeat. Also, a portion of the thighs are covered with ribbing, so this might cause confusion.

3) The ribbed material is quite prominent, so I would consider requiring that for basic approval rather than just for Lvl2. I would appreciate some more opinions on this though.

[smoszer]

I would be in the camp that requires the under suit to have the ribbing as the standard requirement. But I wrote the outline for the following reasons:

Here is the response to your 3 questions above.

1) If you scroll back in the thread to a picture in the post on June 29th by Dewannawonga, you can see two vertical black rectangles on each side of the zipper. I found this image online in a better resolution and zoomed in on it. It's made of a mesh that is similar to what is used for a scubba diver's bag. I agree that this is for venting to reduce body heat. 

2) If the idea is that the level 2 and level 3 certification is to build off of the standard requirements, then I haven't seen that stated anywhere. If you take each level on it's own merit, than the way it's written will help to clarify the areas that are ribbed and the areas that are not. If we don't outline the areas that are not, then someone may make the whole under suit in the ribbed material. If ribbing throughout the whole suit is okay, then I'd be good with removing that information. 

3) The outline is based on the already written and approved CRL for this type of under suit. There is already precedent established by the 501st for what is acceptable for if and how the ribbing would appear.

The standard level requirement allows for a non-ribbed under suit.

I combined the lvl. 2 and lvl. 3 requirements to adjust for the comment earlier in the thread by Ryan last Saturday that said there is no level 3 used in Spec Ops CRLs.

I'll be using the level 2 outline in my build. 

[tipperaryred[CMD-DCA]]

6 hours ago, smoszer said:

I would be in the camp that requires the under suit to have the ribbing as the standard requirement. But I wrote the outline for the following reasons:

Here is the response to your 3 questions above.

1) If you scroll back in the thread to a picture in the post on June 29th by Dewannawonga, you can see two vertical black rectangles on each side of the zipper. I found this image online in a better resolution and zoomed in on it. It's made of a mesh that is similar to what is used for a scubba diver's bag. I agree that this is for venting to reduce body heat. 

2) If the idea is that the level 2 and level 3 certification is to build off of the standard requirements, then I haven't seen that stated anywhere. If you take each level on it's own merit, than the way it's written will help to clarify the areas that are ribbed and the areas that are not. If we don't outline the areas that are not, then someone may make the whole under suit in the ribbed material. If ribbing throughout the whole suit is okay, then I'd be good with removing that information. 

3) The outline is based on the already written and approved CRL for this type of under suit. There is already precedent established by the 501st for what is acceptable for if and how the ribbing would appear.

The standard level requirement allows for a non-ribbed under suit.

I combined the lvl. 2 and lvl. 3 requirements to adjust for the comment earlier in the thread by Ryan last Saturday that said there is no level 3 used in Spec Ops CRLs.

I'll be using the level 2 outline in my build. 

Perfect, thanks mate. Mesh is grand, I hadn't spotted that in the images myself.

The first line of your draft text is what applies to the whole of the undersuit:

"Black non-textured material, either one-piece or two-piece construction with no visible logos/designs."

It is then in the bulletpoints underneath that we specify differences, eg. the addition of ribbed material over the base material. Likewise, lvl2 always builds on the base details from lvl1, only specifying what changes for the next level. In saying that, we can add in mentions of the areas that don't include ribbing if we feel that helps. In this instance I was uncertain about including thighs in this list, because in the undersuit pictures so far it is only a fairly small area of the thigh that isn't covered by the ribbing.

Finally, I take your point fully on this undersuit already having a CRL elsewhere in the Legion. At times you might see new CRLs not even bothering with a copy and paste, and instead typing "Rogue 1 TK style undersuit" and expecting builders to go find the detail on that page. I don't like that approach, but we can certainly copy and paste the existing one if we wish. Equally however, we're fully entitled to rewrite the text completely if we feel it would be an improvement. In this case I think the only major area we'd consider for this is whether the ribbed material should be basic, or only required for lvl2. We both seem to be in agreement that this should be a basic requirement, but I'd be curious to see if others feel the same 🙂

[dewannawanga[TX]]

I think the ribbing definitely should be a requirement for even level 1. If you look at all the other new Era costumes that use a ribbed undersuit it's a requirement for even level 1. Level 2 and 3 are for small details that add more detail and authenticity but this Is a primary costume part.

[Equuspolo]

54 minutes ago, dewannawanga said:

I think the ribbing definitely should be a requirement for even level 1. If you look at all the other new Era costumes that use a ribbed undersuit it's a requirement for even level 1. Level 2 and 3 are for small details that add more detail and authenticity but this Is a primary costume part.

I agree it absolutely has to be.  It’s one hundred percent.  It would be like excluding the pauldron.  The under-suit is ribbed and there is just no way around it