Blackwatch

I have to apologize for being out so much. I was notified Friday my company is shutting down and selling off its aircraft and spares. Today Skywest came in and talked to us, they will be taking over the building, (they own it and all the property) and we will all be able to apply for our jobs to start as new employees for Skywest. Ive spent more than a bit of time fretting over a resume and cover letter (havent written one in almost twent years!) So, lets see what we can get done tonight.

i knocked these straps out, a super quick and easy project after lunch. they match the art and if a person has a pack made up, the top half can be whipped out in just a few minutes and added to the existing strap to give the art-correct appearance.

Sorry guys, these double overtime days are catching up with me again and I often dont get home until 930 at night after the commute home. I had my replies all written out and the computer updated. Awesome. I just re-counted all of the black helmets (we wont go into the green helmets on this one) and the count is: Cover cap placement: Above strap: 2 Below Strap 2 Both above AND below 2. The art is inconsistent , heres the proposal now and you can see my edits Helmet For 501st approval: Open face helmet whose base consists of a dome with rim and helmet skirt. The helmet skirt is to be smooth all around with no indentations on the rear. The helmet is black in color with a flat or satin finish. A black trim covers the edge of the helmet skirt and forehead of the dome. Hearing protection is mounted to the inside of the helmet per source art. Black chin strap and chin cup Screw caps are mounted to either side of the helmet per the source art either above or below the goggle strap. I know we have makers such as WTF that are waiting on word on how to proceed with the helmet. Its in both locations, upon reflection and review ALL locations are correct. I say we call it makers choice, and call the caps "up to the individual" with all locations being in the art. I would like to return the helmet proposal to the original language and keep the hearing protection unless we have input directing them to be on top OR on bottom. Can I get further input on that please? On the chest straps the straps IMO should be mounted to the backpack shoulder straps to support the pack and keep the straps from slipping . I have velcro on my harness just to keep it on my shoulder . Unlike my real world LBE Im not carrying a load to pull down on my nylon straps and keep them in place. Therefore I propose that they be mounted to the backpack straps. I have further input regarding the backpack straps. Almost all panels depict the backpack shoulder straps with adjustment straps. I made this mockup, and I would propose the following for any Level 2 approval. Backpack shoulder straps should appear to be 2-part adjustable with a pointed part of the 2" strap overlapping the top half of the strap, matching source art. A 1" strap is seen on top of the back side of the shoulderstrap passing underneath and then exiting the strap near the point joining the lower half of the shoulderstrap past the point. The 1" strap shall have a keeper below the point of the upper strap. The adjustments need not be functional but should match source art.

Regarding teams: Real combat engineers do work in teams and there is a workload division. There is enough variation in this pack layout we have seen that we can create a pack config for each pack. While some may not be dipicted on the back, I do not feel that that is enough evidence to warrant removal of major component of the backpack. Not all of the troopers have the right side pouch either, nor is there a consistent layout on the charges. Regarding markings , the sapper in the forground that has his hand on his helmet as sapper number 3 gets blown up in the background has markings that look like an arrow. I feel that since this is only seen once , for the purposes of the CRL that no mention of markings be made. @izzi (welcome back by the way) had stated that the packs would have charges. The packs WITH charges have chest pouches. Those without charges (returning from the canyon) do not. The chest pouches are defined in their own entry since they are not part of the belt assembly. Here's the current text: Chest Pouches For 501st Approval: Black rectangular nylon chest pouches are worn between the backpack shoulder straps. 1" -1.5" black nylon webbing mounts these to the shoulder straps. Either one large or two medium size pouches are seen in the source art. With minor modification black MOLLE pouches , First Aid pouches, SAW gunner pouches, gas mask pouches etc. are permitted for the chest pockets. No visible buckles or pull cords are permitted. Pouches will be stuffed to appear full. Two medium-sized (approx. 3"x 5" with snap closures) chest pouches are seen on some troopers. They do not have to be symmetrical. One large pouch (approximately 8" x 5" with no visible closures) chest pouch is seen on on other troopers. Regarding the helmet caps, again there is no consistent placement and there are even helmets within the art that have four caps. My input would be to put them above the goggle strap, which is at least consistent with part of the art. I have added a line to the helmet proposal that hearing protection will be present. Screw caps may be mounted to either side of the helmet per the source art either above or below the goggle strap ill be building my pack out of Sintra this weekend, and I should have it done Sunday night or Monday at the latest. I wont have the charges yet, but the pack frame boxes and shovel will be done and I can simulate charges with oatmeal tubes etc.

hear hear! Quality, not speed. We want something that is as close to correct as possible to submit to the LMO. Also i agree with the majority of the wording, but upon review, when you say detailing, does that only refer to painted details, or to the shape since they are supposed to be mirrors, but assymetrical? I may be off a shade but enough years in the military and mixing model paint tells me that paint colors change with exposure to the environment. For sake of discussion this is olive green and olive grey.

my backpack is ready to cut out of Sintra, ill do that this weekend. Here is my shovel, and the template I made it from. Based on the side of my box, and the way the shovel overlaps the boxes my shovel is 21 inches long. https://i.imgur.com/JDZ1Xxz.jpg https://i.imgur.com/gI7pQLq.jpg

The sappers need a way to plant the charges, hence the shovel. Its seen in as many views as the pouch, and just as often appear in pairs. We also have views troopers digging. Ill make up a shovel and a side pouch this week and post the plans. I Plan on sintra for the shovel, all of the art shows it being like stamped steel. So lets move forward with your proposal, with one guy with a shovel and one guy with a string & side charge Since the pouch is seen on both, and since its easy to make, I would like to see it on both versions of the pack. All will maintain the top charge. I worked out my pack today and wondered how in the heck I was going to have a bottom charge down there with that pouch hanging off the belt. There is art, then there is reality. https://i.imgur.com/xOvzr9b.jpg https://i.imgur.com/3CesUv3.jpg

Weve jumped from the biceps and bells to the back plate. is there any thing further to be discussed on the biceps or backplate? Is everyone happy with this text for the CRL? If not, now is the time to speak up before we move on to the next part. As mentioned above Medics have their own bullet at the bottom of the proposed CRL on Page 1 of the topic. Shoulder Bells Each shoulder bell is a mirror image of the other. The detailing of each shoulder bell is asymmetrical. Shoulders should have a longer flat edge that covers top of bicep with a shorter flat edge that connects to chest armor Shallow grooves are present in a pattern matching the photo. Shoulders are painted olive grey with moderate weathering. Biceps Bicep cover strips are raised and beveled with a added strip layer on top. Left bicep is olive grey with moderate weathering. Right bicep armor is painted red with three yellow squares on the cover strip, with moderate weathering. Biceps shall have moderate weathering

At this point I'm going to continue with this topic as I move towards the sapper build. I need to add the dump pouch to my belt but it is otherwise done once I added the MP40 pouches. Update: I got the file to work. I also cut the major templates for my backpack. Big day of work today, doing absolutely nothing at work.

Mine will be here this week.

Is there any more input on Raiders proposal on the biceps and shoulders? We need to get that firmly established before moving on.

Any progress updates?

My helmet is in work, krysis is pepping it out. I got fed up with hearing " ill start yours in another couple of weeks" after people that ordered after me had theirs and got my money back.

Lets focus on what we need to approve for base level. We can go down each side path once the base is determined.

I'm at work today and I tried to reply on the work computers but it did not go through. I am on board with the L1 L2 proposal. Heres what I propose: L1: Basic four box pack with top charge plus shovel. This is seen in the last art source on the first page of the proposal. L2: At least four options from the list, set up as a source art trooper. Pick a trooper and stay with his layout.

Looks like a good roundup of the items seen in the art. The Sappers have more gear and some of us already have most of this. I altered the pouch portion of the CRL to reflect it. The chest pouch has its own entry, and snaps were already an L2 requirement coming over from the original Engineer CRL. Here is a possible pouch for that dump pouch on the side: https://tacticalgear.com/blackhawk-utility-nalgene-bottle-pouch-black?hp=y What I DO find odd is the lack of E11 holster on the LBE belt, even though they are carrying E11s. The Army trooper has it but I have not found it on the Sapper. What are our collective points of view on the proposals made last night regarding the pack layout, as a L1 (standardized pack ) or L2 (pick a guy and stick with that layout) ?

Currently I have parts for a harness LBE, and I have seven pouches. The green french gloves are on order. I wll be waiting a bit more on the hat / and or/ helmet, so thats not happening real soon. All the parts I have are painted Montana Gold Olive Green so everything will match the CRL and source art.

if you can totally hide it, maybe? Im going to start with a slab and work out from there.

im liking what Im seeing. Which gloves are you using? It looks like the sleeve is tucked in. I still need a helmet, so Ill be waiting for a while on that. But my Trooperbay pouches came in today--how did you mount your pouches to your pack? I was going to take the slanted loops off the back and make a sleeve to put back there for the belt to pass through.

Raider I have read and re-read your point about L2 and L1 approval for packs. If I read it correctly, L1 is basic pack, with a standardized , set charge. L2 would be options per a single individual pack. Would this also require matching belt pouch layout? Neal that was my original intent, a level of mix and match up to the person laying out the pack. Looking between the three options, and after consideration (as well as experience as a judge with mix and match Rebel Commandos), IMO it may be better to go with the L1 L2 setup described by Raider above. If a Sapper wants a specific layout, match the panel. For a L1 layout, we pick a basic layout (IE top charge, side charge, bottom charge, shovel). Im with you on the use of the term Sapper ; I do not want to start an all new topic, but the term has been used quite a bit within the forum. Lets get the CRL bits nailed, then lets discuss why we feel its the more correct term for the art.

i looked up the pantone. There ARE model colors that shade, but model paint isnt very tough.

Theres certainly a happy medium. I joined when it was mostly text and a crappy picture. Thats what I had as a Rebel Infantry judge. It gave me leeway when I had applicants from Eastern Europe that could get something close to right, but were unable to obtain US goods due to import duties and did their best with paint colors. EDIT- back to the CRL proposal, looking it over, and the past discussion, other than what weve just discussed here I agree with what I see, unless Im just completely missing something.

IMO and based on ten years in the club working with GMLs, who will be the final authority to approve it, I see two things with colors: 1: its GREAT. Tells you exactly what to get, and GMLs will love you for using the colors listed in the CRL. 2: it defines the only acceptable color per the CRL when it comes to the L2 standard. Ive seen time and again where overzealous GMLs reject things because of how defined it was, especially internationally. In my experience using the term "such as Pantone350U" will solve problems for approval down the road. Its a very small change but adds up over time.

ive gone back through the discussion about four pages in an effort to catch up. Two things come to mind: While we do strive for accuracy, we can paint outselves into a box when we use specific item codes. What is available now in your part of the world may not be in two years in another part of the world. Rebel Commandos outside of the US deal with that all of the time with the paint colors and boot availability (Import duties and all) , and when I was judging I had to keep that in mind. I have also seen GMLS read something so critically that what was accepted by almost any other GMl was refused because it edid not meet the exact model number or description in the GMLs opinion. Ive dealt with that plenty of times. There has been a lot of work put into this, and it will be approved as a CRL, but we want it to be right, as well as reasonable to obtain, and these points have been brought up on most of the parts of this discussion.

That was the call that Izzi had made several posts back: there would be one version of the pack, which would loaded. I had originally written the proposal with an "unloaded" version [returning from the canyon] and loaded, as described above. After thinking about it, I concur that the pack SHOULD be loaded to some degree. I wrote it based on the various configurations we see in the panels, broken down the way I described them. I even found one panel that had a shovel and "grenade string" on the same backpack, so I altered how the proposed CRL was written. To me these troopers each carry a part of a complex explosive. Even their pouches are different. The charges are different sizes and shapes, and not all have a shovel. One has a box on the side that looks like an old antenna pouch. to me, from this panel it appears that almost all troopers have a top mounted charge. The guy to the far left is hard to tell the way it is drawn, we cant see it but that does not mean its not there. Assuming the two paths for the pack, either a la carte as above or a single universal loadout. Here's a proposal for a single loadout, at least what I would personally want to carry: Top charge which spans longer than the pack is wide Bottom charge which is smaller than the pack Shovel, which will be flat, and not tubular. In a couple of panels the shovel looks like pressed / stamped steel with a bicycle grip added to the handle. Cheap! Optional string of grenades which is seen more often than the box on the right side. https://i.imgur.com/M45LiWY.png