Blackwatch

@Raider one of the first things we need to do is clean up the text and remove the extra characters from the forum move. With the color, we need to make sure that the helmet & mask color match the other part descriptions.

Kevin thats a good question, and welcome to the forums. Thats often the case when there are officer variants of a uniform--who gets it. We have Lt Sunber here in our Army forums after developing the CRL.

awesome!!!! Ive seen his packs. they are beautiful. I hope he had no damage. Ive been through every storm in South La since 2003. Not much good to say about them. SO, is everyone happy with the wording as proposed? Is there anything else we need to cover? If not, then I would like to turn our attention to exactly what we will call this uniform: Discussion: The current proposal is called the Combat Engineer, which makes a modicum of sense. Wikipedia- the knower of all things- tells us that a combat engineer is a soldier who performs a variety of both construction and demolitions tasks under combat conditions. Engineers may build peacetime structures, and this is what most engineers do, most of the time when not deployed. Other terms for this specialized field soldier are "pioneer" or "sapper" and each Nation treats the term differently. Within the US Army, Sapper is a specially trained soldier, whos primary MOS is not combat demolitions or building earthworks, revetments, bunkers or large defilades for armored vehicles. They may be regular Infantry that received intensive skills training, and are typically entitled to wear that nations skill tab, patch or other skill marker. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_engineer Id like to hear from the Command Staff in addition to anyone interested in this project, since it will be the term presented to the LMO. Will we be calling this a Combat Engineer , Sapper or another term, maybe even a combat demolitions team?

Its not, but at least Automotiveworkwear suits go on sale all the time and you can easily do the conversion. Heres my original build topic when I built the first suit. Page 2 has pocket photos of how I put them on. This was my WIP as a FIL costume, so a lot of things changed while I was making it with both Det and LMO input. The big pouch on my back had velcro that I took off. I cant let good velcro go to waste on a pouch thats just getting stuffed with rags. I added two snaps to it. The other pouches had their little nylon loops cut off, added a black snap and stitched in them place. Easy stuff. Things to keep in mind : There are only four pockets, and they have flaps. I used spare suit materiel to make a proper Imperial collar (ive converted many many many "flightsuits" for both Legions). I used the original collar to make flaps for the chest pockets. The leg pockets sit rather low, and should be stuffed. Mine has foam and rags to stuff them. A snap is seen on the collar. this is not typical for the Imperial forces but seen in the art. On my green suit i used leg fabric to make a simple closure after folding the collar down on itself, and stitching it so it would stand up. If you want to go whole hog with the collar, this is how I do it: This is the same collar template I used in my Imperial and Rebel flight suit tutorials you will see scattered across the Legion Det forums. Ignore the point in the back, thats from ESB. This is made from two pieces of fabric cut on a bias, topstitched together face to face (wrong side out) and then flipped right sides out, ironed all to hell and back ( I iron everything to death), and stitched all along the top and along the chevron closure tab. ALSO, I plan ahead and sew soft side velcro on the tab before i sew them together. You do not see where I added the velcro closure that way, its hidden on the inner collar face. Leave plenty of fabric on the bottom when you cut the template out, and fold and iron this under. I stitch the inner face to the coverall neckline first, then stitch the outside down. Its both sturdy and looks neatly finished.

you know, i honestly dont know. A shovel could be cast up, as long as there is a mold. A toy sand shovel may not be a bad starting point. There is plenty of evidence for flat stamped shovels (CHEAP EMPIRE!!!) and some that look like they may be tubular. Its a shovel. I went with Sintra because I have so much of it , its black, and it weighs nothing. My entire pack is 3MM and 6mm Sintra and its fairly light. But anything can be molded, as long as enough silicone is bought to make the mold. My engineer was pretty well disassembled at a recent con. I paid for my ticket and came in the front and they went through each pouch AND pocket (as well as all bags, purses, carrages etc). I held up the line a while as I removed all the stuffing from my pouches on my hips. Some of the stuffing and foam is glued in and they were satisfied that I was nto going to attack anyone with my glued-in pouch stuffing. Shovels----thats different. The new Security Forces Im starting to see at some of these cons will be able to feel it and determine it is not harmful. but anywhoo heres my shovel. i weathered it in the mud where my front yard used to be before the Parish contractor destroyed my yard and my street for road improvements.

Kerry you might want to add an inch or so to that strap on the back of the shoulders. Otherwise Im digging it. That green patch sure does set off the black, doesnt it!?! but there is one bugaboo, the leg pockets go on the sides like BDU pockets. they ride kinda low, too. I thnk I am using the same coveralls you are.

@TX-15293 Neal with Crookknight making the prototype pack, which charges are you going with? Did you determine which top charge he will make it with? it will pretty much define the L1 pack. Essentially which of the top charges will be preferred, (long or short) or will we use both at troopers discretion? Also everyone my computer is acting really stupid. I spent most of last night trying to get online. Not only for here but for job search stuff. Peckign things out on my phone just doesnt work half the time.

I thought the colors were already defined. the term pill bugs me. "Elongated oval, depressed/ raised oblong" both seem more descriptive since half the meds I take are round pills. its a minor term change.

Ive looked at my printed out pics, and I see its clear that there are two layouts-with and without MP40 pouches. Those wihtout MP40 pouches have the dump bag on he left leg. The charges vary with the art, but clearly some do not have the MP40 pouches. (exiting the canyon photo) PROPOSAL For Basic Approval: Four boxes with a top explosive charge mounted. Level 2 pack and matching belt pouches: (Option 1) In addition to top charge, the bottom charge will be mounted as well as the entrenching shovel. The long black right side pouch may be mounted to the pack to match source art. Two black belt pouches are mounted on either side of the belt buckle near where the harness meets the belt. MA47 double handcuff MOLLE PALS or other black nylon utility pouches are acceptable. Black Canvas or leather or faux leather MP40 pouches are located on both hips. Two or three (depending on spacing on belt) black Molle Strobe type or magazine pouches are mounted behind the MP-40 pouches (Option 2) In addition to the top charge, the pack will have a string of explosive charges mounted to the back as well as one large explosive charge seen mounted to the side of the pack. Two black belt pouches are mounted on either side of the belt buckle near where the harness meets the belt. MA47 double handcuff MOLLE PALS or other black nylon utility pouches are acceptable. Black Canvas or leather or faux leather MP40 pouches are located on both hips. Two or three (depending on spacing on belt) black Molle Strobe type or magazine pouches are mounted behind the MP-40 pouches . A large black pouch with two snaps is mounted to the back of the belt.A large black side pouch dump pouch etc. is located on the wearers left, behind the MP-40 pouch. The dump pouch should have a leg strap to keep it in place. This brings me to the top charge, which I dont think we have discussed much. In the art very few of them match, and currently I have two charge descriptions proposed. One is wider than the pack seen in option 1 art above, (its going to catch on EVERYTHING at a troop) and one that is the width of the pack seen in the same panel. I also see different end caps. Which one do we really want to go with to cut down confusion? I am perfectly happy using the charge that is as wide as the pack boxes. its pas midnight and Ive literally been staring at Star Wars images all day, I think Ill head to bed.

Based on these images the round ear pads would be L2. clearly the artist took the time to draw earlobes so not all have the earpads. Also @Scubacat this is the art you saw that has the markings on top of the tube, its one of two instance where it is seen indistinctly, but clearly not present on all tubes. Im all for plastic and possibly fiberglass. I think the days of luan plywood for boxes are past. Mine is nearing completion and its Sintra (PVC plastic) Personally after thrity years of working with resins, fiberglass, acrylic, PVC sheet and plastic, Im not sold on 3d stuff, ive cleaned too much of it up, BUT hey, as long as the print lines arent so thick they can be seen in the photos, that would be up to the costumer and their GML for approval, and Det for the Level. Ive identified several pack layouts. One clearly has a large flat surface on top of the box, like its a planter lip. Some have curved "webbing" between the boxes. Others have a rectangle in the vertical valley. We spoke earlier of creating three packs, and Neil had a proposal for L2 packs. Since the art IS inconsistent on the details like the curved part between the boxes, vs some that have a sharp V, lets just leave it simple and leave that OUT of the pack description. SO- Returning to the pack layout, given what we have discussed thus far, and assuming that the L1 pack will have the top charge in all cases: L1 (Base): Four boxes, top charge. option 1 pack (L2) Charge on the bottom of the pack and shovel Option 2 pack (L2) String of charges and side charge As @Raider suggested previously our pack layout should match our belt layout, however there is not a lot of variety if you are using the suggested pouches. I put on the MP40 pouches on and with the dump I wound up taking pouches off to make room. Last week @Izzy said the shovel should be on each. Based on art, Im not convinced, I thik it is on one half of the packs presented. Ok everyone, thoughts?

By pill hole do you mean an oval shaped hole? I ask,which means somene else may mis interpret it. On the wording of the off centered hose connectors, being off centered to the left and right, the wording does not read well for me, but thats just me. If they are equidistant from the center, would the following work: hose connectors are mounted to the back, at equal distance from the middle of the pack

Ok got more work done: I started building the pack from 3 and 6MM sintra based on the drawings int he forums, and measurements I made from the source art. Also got my harness laid out completely with the dump pouch, small pouches, twin MP40s etc. I condsider it done.

Gloves and cov's. Im looking for another pair of the boots I found to paint green. I havent put the harness together yet but Ive got the stuff and all the parts are paitned Montana Gold Olive green.

Sorry everyone, I got thrown a MAJOR life curve Friday and it took a bit to dig out. One way, or the other, in about thrity days there will be a very real, and very serious, conclusion, and I have no idea which way its gonna go. Anyhoo, I think we are at an impasse on the straps. Backpack shoulder straps or Suspender shoulder straps. The art doesn't tell us which. We need a decision to move forward. PROPOSAL Leave it up to the individual. I realize this opens a can of worms, and it is a non-answer, but there's no evidence either way and in the end, its just a pouch mounted to the chest seen in only some of the panels prior to setting explosive charges. I agree with the round disc shaped pad. Mounting to the top of the strap hides the attachment point. Not all have the hearing protection, about half do, but it is a prominent feature inside the helmet. On that note Im game for letting the member choose whether the caps are above or below the goggle strap. @Raider the straps I made are load baearing and full strength, and ready to bolt onto my pack, made from two hunks of 2" black nylon stitched together on my heavy duty machine. The 1" strip is decorative but matches the art. My length will be set when I build up the back pack platform. For appearance for L2 A member can add a strip of pointy 2" black nylon, a 1" decorative "adjustment" strip, and the little cross strip "keeper" to any existing backpack straps. 2" nylon is super cheap and I used a ID neck strap for the "adjuster" strap

I have to apologize for being out so much. I was notified Friday my company is shutting down and selling off its aircraft and spares. Today Skywest came in and talked to us, they will be taking over the building, (they own it and all the property) and we will all be able to apply for our jobs to start as new employees for Skywest. Ive spent more than a bit of time fretting over a resume and cover letter (havent written one in almost twent years!) So, lets see what we can get done tonight.

i knocked these straps out, a super quick and easy project after lunch. they match the art and if a person has a pack made up, the top half can be whipped out in just a few minutes and added to the existing strap to give the art-correct appearance.

Sorry guys, these double overtime days are catching up with me again and I often dont get home until 930 at night after the commute home. I had my replies all written out and the computer updated. Awesome. I just re-counted all of the black helmets (we wont go into the green helmets on this one) and the count is: Cover cap placement: Above strap: 2 Below Strap 2 Both above AND below 2. The art is inconsistent , heres the proposal now and you can see my edits Helmet For 501st approval: Open face helmet whose base consists of a dome with rim and helmet skirt. The helmet skirt is to be smooth all around with no indentations on the rear. The helmet is black in color with a flat or satin finish. A black trim covers the edge of the helmet skirt and forehead of the dome. Hearing protection is mounted to the inside of the helmet per source art. Black chin strap and chin cup Screw caps are mounted to either side of the helmet per the source art either above or below the goggle strap. I know we have makers such as WTF that are waiting on word on how to proceed with the helmet. Its in both locations, upon reflection and review ALL locations are correct. I say we call it makers choice, and call the caps "up to the individual" with all locations being in the art. I would like to return the helmet proposal to the original language and keep the hearing protection unless we have input directing them to be on top OR on bottom. Can I get further input on that please? On the chest straps the straps IMO should be mounted to the backpack shoulder straps to support the pack and keep the straps from slipping . I have velcro on my harness just to keep it on my shoulder . Unlike my real world LBE Im not carrying a load to pull down on my nylon straps and keep them in place. Therefore I propose that they be mounted to the backpack straps. I have further input regarding the backpack straps. Almost all panels depict the backpack shoulder straps with adjustment straps. I made this mockup, and I would propose the following for any Level 2 approval. Backpack shoulder straps should appear to be 2-part adjustable with a pointed part of the 2" strap overlapping the top half of the strap, matching source art. A 1" strap is seen on top of the back side of the shoulderstrap passing underneath and then exiting the strap near the point joining the lower half of the shoulderstrap past the point. The 1" strap shall have a keeper below the point of the upper strap. The adjustments need not be functional but should match source art.

Regarding teams: Real combat engineers do work in teams and there is a workload division. There is enough variation in this pack layout we have seen that we can create a pack config for each pack. While some may not be dipicted on the back, I do not feel that that is enough evidence to warrant removal of major component of the backpack. Not all of the troopers have the right side pouch either, nor is there a consistent layout on the charges. Regarding markings , the sapper in the forground that has his hand on his helmet as sapper number 3 gets blown up in the background has markings that look like an arrow. I feel that since this is only seen once , for the purposes of the CRL that no mention of markings be made. @izzi (welcome back by the way) had stated that the packs would have charges. The packs WITH charges have chest pouches. Those without charges (returning from the canyon) do not. The chest pouches are defined in their own entry since they are not part of the belt assembly. Here's the current text: Chest Pouches For 501st Approval: Black rectangular nylon chest pouches are worn between the backpack shoulder straps. 1" -1.5" black nylon webbing mounts these to the shoulder straps. Either one large or two medium size pouches are seen in the source art. With minor modification black MOLLE pouches , First Aid pouches, SAW gunner pouches, gas mask pouches etc. are permitted for the chest pockets. No visible buckles or pull cords are permitted. Pouches will be stuffed to appear full. Two medium-sized (approx. 3"x 5" with snap closures) chest pouches are seen on some troopers. They do not have to be symmetrical. One large pouch (approximately 8" x 5" with no visible closures) chest pouch is seen on on other troopers. Regarding the helmet caps, again there is no consistent placement and there are even helmets within the art that have four caps. My input would be to put them above the goggle strap, which is at least consistent with part of the art. I have added a line to the helmet proposal that hearing protection will be present. Screw caps may be mounted to either side of the helmet per the source art either above or below the goggle strap ill be building my pack out of Sintra this weekend, and I should have it done Sunday night or Monday at the latest. I wont have the charges yet, but the pack frame boxes and shovel will be done and I can simulate charges with oatmeal tubes etc.

hear hear! Quality, not speed. We want something that is as close to correct as possible to submit to the LMO. Also i agree with the majority of the wording, but upon review, when you say detailing, does that only refer to painted details, or to the shape since they are supposed to be mirrors, but assymetrical? I may be off a shade but enough years in the military and mixing model paint tells me that paint colors change with exposure to the environment. For sake of discussion this is olive green and olive grey.

my backpack is ready to cut out of Sintra, ill do that this weekend. Here is my shovel, and the template I made it from. Based on the side of my box, and the way the shovel overlaps the boxes my shovel is 21 inches long. https://i.imgur.com/JDZ1Xxz.jpg https://i.imgur.com/gI7pQLq.jpg

The sappers need a way to plant the charges, hence the shovel. Its seen in as many views as the pouch, and just as often appear in pairs. We also have views troopers digging. Ill make up a shovel and a side pouch this week and post the plans. I Plan on sintra for the shovel, all of the art shows it being like stamped steel. So lets move forward with your proposal, with one guy with a shovel and one guy with a string & side charge Since the pouch is seen on both, and since its easy to make, I would like to see it on both versions of the pack. All will maintain the top charge. I worked out my pack today and wondered how in the heck I was going to have a bottom charge down there with that pouch hanging off the belt. There is art, then there is reality. https://i.imgur.com/xOvzr9b.jpg https://i.imgur.com/3CesUv3.jpg

Weve jumped from the biceps and bells to the back plate. is there any thing further to be discussed on the biceps or backplate? Is everyone happy with this text for the CRL? If not, now is the time to speak up before we move on to the next part. As mentioned above Medics have their own bullet at the bottom of the proposed CRL on Page 1 of the topic. Shoulder Bells Each shoulder bell is a mirror image of the other. The detailing of each shoulder bell is asymmetrical. Shoulders should have a longer flat edge that covers top of bicep with a shorter flat edge that connects to chest armor Shallow grooves are present in a pattern matching the photo. Shoulders are painted olive grey with moderate weathering. Biceps Bicep cover strips are raised and beveled with a added strip layer on top. Left bicep is olive grey with moderate weathering. Right bicep armor is painted red with three yellow squares on the cover strip, with moderate weathering. Biceps shall have moderate weathering

At this point I'm going to continue with this topic as I move towards the sapper build. I need to add the dump pouch to my belt but it is otherwise done once I added the MP40 pouches. Update: I got the file to work. I also cut the major templates for my backpack. Big day of work today, doing absolutely nothing at work.

Mine will be here this week.

Is there any more input on Raiders proposal on the biceps and shoulders? We need to get that firmly established before moving on.