Imperial Army Trooper - Andor - CRL Discussion

[pm07[TX]]

On 1/10/2023 at 9:04 AM, Vanedor said:

Bayonet? Never seen any blade on a SW blaster. I guess you mean the support?

This attachemnt on the right side of the rifle at the handguard , I have seen it referred to as a bayonet. 

[TeaJay[TX]]

Hey all, I've been working on my armor in the evenings when time allows. I'm pretty far along, majority of backplate (most time consuming because of all the details) is completed, sides attached, working on shoulder bells, saving biceps for last so I can nail down the fitting with the soft goods.

Leaving off all the silver greeblies to be painted separately then glued on after the armor is painted. Sanding everything to prep for paint when not assembling.

My plan is to have everything ready to be painted for an armor party that our garrison has at the end of the month. 

Build has been with L2 in mind during the process. Provide an update in the coming weeks.

[sonfield[TX]]

Starting on this build myself.  Just tried on the suit pre dye (wrong boots/ gloves, etc..).  Dyed the suit today with Olive Green dye.  Hat shows how it came out..  But wanted to check out what you all thought of another paint option.  Montana Gold Anthricite.  It is my usual go to for a green/ grey black.  Quick paint up of a resin printed piece.  Thoughts?  

 

[TeaJay[TX]]

Looking forward to see the uniform post dye dry. I washed mine a few times to lighten the color. 

The armor feels pretty close, your results seem a bit dark gray more than than green black, but that is technically in spec for the range of color we are looking for, but on the lighter side. I wish it was just a shade darker.

This is a dark indoor scene, but here you can see the black of the rank denotation on the shoulder being almost the same color as the overall color.

It could simply be the lighting though... 

Here's the outdoor scene, still showing the dark color consistency 

I stared at the color table for Montana Gold, along with their other series of paints, color matchers, model paints, etc. for hours when looking at options that didn't require a custom made spray paint and this color along with G1180 MILITARY GREEN may be worth testing in person. I felt STEALTH was too light and COKE was too dark and that ended my efforts on relying on Montana paints.

What are your thoughts on MILITARY GREEN? May also not be a good fit but I couldn't test it as I couldn't find it locally and went the custom color match route with SW6994 in spray form. Should be ready to paint within the next two weeks for further comparison.

[sonfield[TX]]

Thanks TJ!  Appreciate it

It is actually fairly dark, and has green hint..  And definitely darker than military green.  When the dye is dry, I will shoot them together, tell me what you think. 

 

[TeaJay[TX]]

46 minutes ago, sonfield said:

Thanks TJ!  Appreciate it

It is actually fairly dark, and has green hint..  And definitely darker than military green.  When the dye is dry, I will shoot them together, tell me what you think. 

 

Sounds good. I see the hint of green in the image you just posted. Its definitely is in the color spectrum that should be accepted for approval.

Looking forward to your photos! Did you end up doing Rit dye mixtures to make the olive green or go with something premade like Dylon? 

[sonfield[TX]]

Did dylon olive green. 

[nanotek[CMD-DWM]]

7 hours ago, sonfield said:

Starting on this build myself.  Just tried on the suit pre dye (wrong boots/ gloves, etc..).  Dyed the suit today with Olive Green dye.  Hat shows how it came out..  But wanted to check out what you all thought of another paint option.  Montana Gold Anthricite.  It is my usual go to for a green/ grey black.  Quick paint up of a resin printed piece.  Thoughts?  

 

I think the colour of the armor looks pretty good

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Are we agreed on the blaster text? we need to clear and lock that. 

 

Also, lets start new topics for WIPS, this is for the CRL discussion, we want to keep it limited to discussing the CRL. 

[Detaleader[501st]]

41 minutes ago, Blackwatch said:

Are we agreed on the blaster text? we need to clear and lock that. 

I think it's good to proceed, yep. 

[sonfield[TX]]

here are some in context shots with the dyed suit and the bell.  Im going to paint up another bell and biceps today.  Not bad as an in can option.

[Wasrovv Slociw]

36 minutes ago, sonfield said:

here are some in context shots with the dyed suit and the bell.  Im going to paint up another bell and biceps today.  Not bad as an in can option.

 

 

Question about the uniform from Imperial Boots, does the cap already come with the code disk or is that separate? Also what olive green dye did you use?

Also in general perspective, is the actual boots shined?

[sonfield[TX]]

Comes with a nice disc. Boots need weathering. These are also imperial boots. I used Dylon olive green. Took the color very well!

[neoakaj[TX]]

Just now, sonfield said:

Comes with a nice disc. Boots need weathering. These are also imperial boots. I used Dylon olive green. Took the color very well!

The boots in your pictures are IB boots? Are they the regular jackboot or the tall jackboot? 

[Wasrovv Slociw]

43 minutes ago, sonfield said:

Comes with a nice disc. Boots need weathering. These are also imperial boots. I used Dylon olive green. Took the color very well!

Awesome! How much Dylon Olive Green did you use? I used that with a little bit of brown on a plain shirt. Also is that the ICAT holster?

[Vanedor[501st]]

I love to see your WIP Justin 🙂

I think the color or the tunic and armor are pretty much spot on and I guess which paint I'm going to order! 🙂

But David is right and perhaps moderators could split this into a new thread?

[sonfield[TX]]

Oops..   Sorry!!! yea..  was just posting for color options, but it is getting buildy.  Apologies!  Will start another thread.  Feel free to delete.

[BigJasoni[TX]]

All,
I thought I'd chime in here because I'm well on my way to making this costume. Honestly, I really wanted to throw in some blaster stuff.
Everyone's been citing the E-10 blaster, i.e. E-10.5, but I think we've overlooked some of the more obvious differences. Getting the OxProps blaster is an option, and David did a great job of putting his together, but there's a few little things that need to be addressed. I'll reach out and see if he's making those changes.

Additionally, @Bozzy will be making this available soon on Thingiverse.

This is a very raw print I threw together back in October and we've continued to refine it since. I would post new pictures, but I've completely disassembled the weapon and am prepping it for paint. Additionally, I'm working on another version using my actual S&G Sterling Airsoft, extended barrel, an HK-416 Stock with modified butt and a couple other added items. I'll keep everyone updated before I start casting the final product.

If you do decide to print one of these blasters, please keep the following details in mind. These are all seen on screen and shouldn't be overlooked:

• Magazine top detail
• Hengstler has accurate eagle logo seen on all RO E-11 variants. The Eagle should be smaller than the recessed screw holes above and below it. Additionally, designers typically use the Hengstler font and Eagle from the older ANH variant which is incorrect. Look for the "blocky" eagle. 
• Collapsing stock is an HK-416 model, with adapter similar to the Deathtrooper, but has different details on the butt. My only guess is that they didn't want to cast the ribbed rubber rear butt that we've seen previously.
• Rogue One variant blasters use a cast of the M38 1943 scope, serial number 110332 The serial number shouldn't matter since we don't see it here, but the shape and size of the scope does.
• I believe the Picatinny rail they used on this blaster is actually a stock adapter for an HK-416. Look at the 1913 adapter as an example.
• Power cylinders are the Rogue One style cylinders, not ANH. Ensure proper placement of the inner cylinders and correct shape of the foot.

I will continue to study this blaster and note anything that comes up. We have an excellent start with the Muddy E-10, but just need to ensure everything that was deliberately changed is accounted for.

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Jason this is the best view of this Ive seen.  The on screen images arent giving us that much detail.  Ok. let me rewrite the blaster proposal and see where we are. 

Im looking forward to seeing this on the 'verse. Ive got four printers that are just hungry for another blaster. 

Change log 1.3

E-10.5  Blaster
Based on a real or replica Sterling sub-machine gun, scratch-built, cast, 3D print or a modified commercial toy Stormtrooper blaster.
Magazine is extended length. Magazine may be fitted with red lights which illuminate through the grill.

There is a detailed grille fixture on the top of the magazine running the length of the magazine. It features 8 slots. 
Power cylinder  has 2 outer cylinders and 2 smaller central cylinders.         

There is a short accessory mount rail on the left side of the blaster in front of the power cylinders. It features 4 segments. 
Scope rail is fitted on a rear block while the front of the rail is angled to join the top of the barrel.    Scope is a M1938 1943 version.            Henglster has accurate eagle logo seen on Rogue One E-11 varians. The eagle logo should fit between the recessed screw holes above and below it.  The eagle logo should the the more "blocky" style than the more art-deco style. 

A folding collapsing stock is in place. The proper type stock is from a Heckler Koch 416.  
A webbing sling  attached to the rear stock with snap hook buckles is permitted. 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
Base is based on S&T Airsoft sterling with closed working parts (no spring).
Screws used are M4 x 25mm Allen screw/bolts and sunken Allen screws for power cylinders.
Web sling is fitted with 1" (25mm) 316 stainless steel marine webbing snap hooks.

[Vanedor[501st]]

«Henglster has accurate eagle logo seen on Rogue One E-11 varians. The eagle logo should fit between the recessed screw holes above and below it.  The eagle logo should the the more "blocky" style than the more art-deco style. »

Perhaps that sort of details might be best for level2?

Typo in the last sentence «The eagle logo should the be the more "blocky" style than the more art-deco style»

Also, it's not clear what's the Henglster mentioned here.

[BigJasoni[TX]]

4 hours ago, Vanedor said:

«Henglster has accurate eagle logo seen on Rogue One E-11 varians. The eagle logo should fit between the recessed screw holes above and below it.  The eagle logo should the the more "blocky" style than the more art-deco style. »

I agree entirely. Also, I think it's prudent to actually post a picture of this so you guys don't think I'm out of my mind:

So, the far left is the eagle logo found on the Rogue One blaster and the other two were used interchangeably in the OT. 

This picture is courtesy of TK-80421 over at the FISD forum. If you'd like to see a great analysis of the Rogue One E-11, which is the base of all these Anthology/ New Generation weapons, check out his write up here:
https://www.whitearmor.net/forum/topic/41271-rogue-one-e-11-blaster-reference/#comment-553353

I've referenced this post so many times in my blaster builds that I have it saved in my favorites.

5 hours ago, Blackwatch said:

Jason this is the best view of this Ive seen.  The on screen images arent giving us that much detail.

I hope it does help; I'll post a few more below.

Chris did a great job of quickly putting this blaster together, along with a couple others we're currently working on. This one is a remix of Sean Fields' E-10, so for anyone familiar with that, you'll know that there are a few imperfections, but they're minute and very worthy of a basic approval build. I think the major things that should be considered for basic level approval is the correct shape of the scope, and butt stock, the magazine greeblie, Rogue One style power cylinders, and for all things that are holy... please ensure you're using a blaster modeled from the airsoft rifle, not the original Sterling.

Disassembled. Folding stock not pictured

Assembled raw print: I didn't print this Hengstler in resin, so the eagle isn't showing.

Assembled: Please keep in mind that nothing's definitive; this was an early prototype.

HK-416 Stock Adapter

Correct shaped bayonet lug

Details on rear of stock

Good shot of rail, scope, power cylinders and hengstler

 

 

[Detaleader[501st]]

15 hours ago, Blackwatch said:

Jason this is the best view of this Ive seen.  The on screen images arent giving us that much detail.  Ok. let me rewrite the blaster proposal and see where we are. 

Im looking forward to seeing this on the 'verse. Ive got four printers that are just hungry for another blaster. 

Change log 1.3

E-10.5  Blaster
Based on a real or replica Sterling sub-machine gun, scratch-built, cast, 3D print or a modified commercial toy Stormtrooper blaster.
Magazine is extended length. Magazine may be fitted with red lights which illuminate through the grill.

There is a detailed grille fixture on the top of the magazine running the length of the magazine. It features 8 slots. 
Power cylinder  has 2 outer cylinders and 2 smaller central cylinders.         

There is a short accessory mount rail on the left side of the blaster in front of the power cylinders. It features 4 segments. 
Scope rail is fitted on a rear block while the front of the rail is angled to join the top of the barrel.    Scope is a M1938 1943 version.            Henglster has accurate eagle logo seen on Rogue One E-11 varians. The eagle logo should fit between the recessed screw holes above and below it.  The eagle logo should the the more "blocky" style than the more art-deco style. 

A folding collapsing stock is in place. The proper type stock is from a Heckler Koch 416.  
A webbing sling  attached to the rear stock with snap hook buckles is permitted. 

OPTIONAL Level two certification (if applicable):
Base is based on S&T Airsoft sterling with closed working parts (no spring).
Screws used are M4 x 25mm Allen screw/bolts and sunken Allen screws for power cylinders.
Web sling is fitted with 1" (25mm) 316 stainless steel marine webbing snap hooks.

Something to raise here: 

- On FISD's R1TK CRL, the Logo on the Hengstler doesn't become relevant until Level 2, Eagle Size isn't specified until Level 3. I feel like if we want to add these details, it should be consistent across different blasters. 

- I don't think I really like the wording on the stock section much. Sure, it's a 416C style stock, but the stock used comes most likely from a VFC Replica, not a real 416C (UK gun laws, accessibility to parts, cost, etc). I'm not sure if the brand should be specified here? 

Death Trooper CRL says "It is fitted with a HK416c retractable stock or similar". Once again, would it be preferable to have the same part be described consistently across multiple CRLs? 

- The additional detail on the Stock would be inconsistent with the Mudtrooper CRL. Should both have more detail or be more vague? It's the same stock, it should be consistent across the board in my opinion. If we are gonna be more specific we might as well add the following for Level 2: 

"Buttplate is smooth with a rectangular greeblie mounted on the plate" 

The detail piece on the buttplate is the same as on the Solo E-10: 

- FISD's R1TK CRL don't specify the Scope type until Level 2. Should be made consistent across both blasters, as they use the same scope imo. 

- Magazine detail isn't mentioned in Mudtrooper. Should this detail be added to both CRLs? It is present on both blasters.

 

- In regards to power cylinders, again for consistency, FISD don't mention theirs until Level 2 and don't require them to be "Rogue One Style" until Level 3 even. 

- Rather than saying that it's a 4-Segment Rail, let's call it a 3-slot? I believe that this will make it easier for other folks to pick a rail for themselves (for dirt cheap on Aliexpress for example). This is based on how you'd usually refer to these types of rails. 

Ultimately, what I want to ask is: Do we currently have too many details in L1 that should be in L2? With all the additions, it starts to feel a little bloated for L1, at least for my taste. Now mind you, I think all of these are great details, and should all be in there, but if they are, I think they mostly should go to L2

 

16 hours ago, BigJasoni said:

Honestly, I really wanted to throw in some blaster stuff.

• Collapsing stock is an HK-416 model, with adapter similar to the Deathtrooper, but has different details on the butt. My only guess is that they didn't want to cast the ribbed rubber rear butt that we've seen previously.
• Rogue One variant blasters use a cast of the M38 1943 scope, serial number 110332 The serial number shouldn't matter since we don't see it here, but the shape and size of the scope does.
• I believe the Picatinny rail they used on this blaster is actually a stock adapter for an HK-416. Look at the 1913 adapter as an example.

I will continue to study this blaster and note anything that comes up. We have an excellent start with the Muddy E-10, but just need to ensure everything that was deliberately changed is accounted for.

Ohh, now we're talking! Good eye for details  I mentioned some points above already, so don't mind me! 

A couple of small notes: 
- I don't think that there is an awful lot of deliberate changes. Chances are that the only real new piece would be the tube, which is just a (S&T) Sterling Barrel Shroud, but longer this time. Since the T-Tracks are different from the E-10 placement (no slider for bayonet), it is unlikely be the same I believe. 
- Good eye on the Serial Number on the scope! I love details like that. I would presume this is the same as the R1 scope? If so, I believe it's fair to assume that the entire Scope assembly (Scope, Mount, Bracket and Hengstler) all come as the same unit from the R1 E-11 and are then added to the new tube. 
- I don't believe that the stock adapter is from a 416. The 416 platform needs a buffer tube still, and while the C model has a shorter tube (it's the big blocky round shape that protrudes from the receiver), it is not mounted through a Picatinny rail, but rather mounted with a big nut. 
- 1913 basically refers to the standard that the picatinny rail is based around 
- The rail is a 3-slot MLOK rail. There is various makers, and I would be willing to bet that production used cheap Airsoft rails, rather than something built to real standard. I guess the vent holes on the Sterling shroud might be a decent enough fit? Couldn't tell you, in all fairness. My time with the S&T Sterling is very brief. 

Either way, some great observations! 
 

[Blackwatch[CMD-DCA]]

Ok, for a guy that only knows E11s, this is a lot for my old, tired brain to absorb, and Im jumping back and forth across four tabs trying to keep all this straight. I admit, I do now know anything about this blaster and this is a lot to take in.   We can look at the mudtrooper later, we clearly did not know this when we wrote the mudtrooper CRL.  

Im going to start over on this description, I feel we have enough things here. This is going to be almost a full rewrite. 

I have a question regarding the left side sling hook. Clearly what we see on Aldhani is a singlepoint hook on the buttstock, keeping with the modern trend of a easily discarded empty weapon to go to your secondary.  Going through @BigJasoni photos I dont see one on the left side except on the model. We need to confirm its is or is not in place on the stock on Aldhani, however Im not seeing it.    Im going to rewrite this offline and post it later since this will pretty much be starting over.   Right now my brain is cramping from the now 9 tabs I have open going back and forth looking at all this. 

Can somone summarize what NEEDS to be in there. Im getting lost and confused in the discussion of the buttstock , whether its a 416 (or not) , Whether or not a 1913 is used (or not) and all the other points that have been made here? Im not a gun guy or an airsoft guy, so all this is just numbers to be but I need something I can write and keep in line. 

[BigJasoni[TX]]

3 hours ago, Detaleader said:

A couple of small notes: 
- I don't think that there is an awful lot of deliberate changes. Chances are that the only real new piece would be the tube, which is just a (S&T) Sterling Barrel Shroud, but longer this time. Since the T-Tracks are different from the E-10 placement (no slider for bayonet), it is unlikely be the same I believe. 
- Good eye on the Serial Number on the scope! I love details like that. I would presume this is the same as the R1 scope? If so, I believe it's fair to assume that the entire Scope assembly (Scope, Mount, Bracket and Hengstler) all come as the same unit from the R1 E-11 and are then added to the new tube. 
- I don't believe that the stock adapter is from a 416. The 416 platform needs a buffer tube still, and while the C model has a shorter tube (it's the big blocky round shape that protrudes from the receiver), it is not mounted through a Picatinny rail, but rather mounted with a big nut. 
- 1913 basically refers to the standard that the picatinny rail is based around 

100% agree. None of these details should come into play until a person is looking for Specialist. However, the magazine greeblie and butt stock detail both seem like very deliberate additions that should be added. Also, good catch on the Mimban TKs, I've never caught that before.

Regarding the stock: I should have clarified what I was saying; the HK416 stock is clearly attached with the retaining nut/ adapter similar to this one here:

I won't name vendors here, but for those who have been lurking around the Spec Ops detachment for a while, you likely know where these pics came from. Also, regarding the actual butt, the shape of the one pictured is what we should be looking for, but again, the rear is not ribbed and has the pill shaped detail.

I mentioned the MIL-1913 rail because I couldn't find a good name for this particular style of Picatinny. But, I did call out that it's likely a stock adapter due to it's shape. Again, this really isn't an issue for basic approval; the inclusion of a picatinny rail should be fine for that, but for Specialist, I think the proper shape should be specified. Here's a picture of the two I printed out during the blaster design phase:

Again, nothing official here; these are merely resin prints, but the design on the left came up from reference photos we were provided in a blaster build group. I believe I already posted one of the pics above.

Regarding the scope, the serial number isn't anything that we've held against people in the FISD; however, we currently only have 2 EIB ROTKs and one Centurion. Of note, our lone Centurion has a scope that was custom cast from an original 1943 model with the correct serial number.

One interesting piece of information here: for the film, our "intel" indicates that the props department actually used resin cast scopes provided by Doopydoos, hence the known serial number. Unfortunately Doopydoos is no longer making props, but the files are out there:

4 hours ago, Detaleader said:

Ultimately, what I want to ask is: Do we currently have too many details in L1 that should be in L2? With all the additions, it starts to feel a little bloated for L1, at least for my taste. Now mind you, I think all of these are great details, and should all be in there, but if they are, I think they mostly should go to L2

Absolutely!

1 hour ago, Blackwatch said:

I have a question regarding the left side sling hook. Clearly what we see on Aldhani is a singlepoint hook on the buttstock, keeping with the modern trend of a easily discarded empty weapon to go to your secondary.  Going through @BigJasoni photos I dont see one on the left side except on the model. We need to confirm its is or is not in place on the stock on Aldhani, however Im not seeing it. 

It's definitely on there, but what I can't find in the references is how it mounts to the bottom of the blaster.

Neither of these pictures show the actual sling, but you can see the two variations of the ring. This picture shows the sling and also shows a great shot of the rear butt stock detail:

Ok. I think I've officially belabored the blaster. I'll start chiming in with anything I find on the armor next.

 

[Detaleader[501st]]

1 hour ago, Blackwatch said:

Ok, for a guy that only knows E11s, this is a lot for my old, tired brain to absorb, and Im jumping back and forth across four tabs trying to keep all this straight. [...]

Im going to start over on this description, I feel we have enough things here. This is going to be almost a full rewrite. 

I have a question regarding the left side sling hook. [...] Right now my brain is cramping from the now 9 tabs I have open going back and forth looking at all this. 

I'll see if I can't do a breakdown of the essentials after work as for what has to be in there (and potentially even which level?). 

As for the left side sling swivel: You can see it near the muzzle during the training scene. My guess is that the guns had them, and at some point the attachment point broke off. Based on that, I would suggest making the front attachment point optional. 

The rear sling swivel is mounted under the buffer tube. 

As for the lots of tabs: Trust me, I feel ya! I think I have a couple dozen of pics for Aldhani by now. And those numbers are tame compared to my other folders haha.