tipperaryred

There's definite inconsistencies with the animations, so for now we'll just flag it up with a different colour and move on to the next step (under suit). So here is the draft text for the helmet. We can always return to it if there are any new references or inputs that are useful. Helmet Imperial Mandalorian Super Commando style helmet, matching visual references from Star Wars Rebel animated series. Helmet should be painted and weathered to match references. Weathering/chipping of the red paint should match the light grey paint used elsewhere on the helmet. Helmet dome and face plate to be painted red as per references. Rear plate, raised rear panel detailing, the upper cheek plates, left ear plate and teeth must be painted light grey as per references. Lower cheek plates, raised rear panel, must be painted white (or a lighter shade of grey), as per references. Additional detailing on rear plate must be painted white. Ear caps and antennae may be painted light grey or a weathered white. All recessed panel lines are black or dark grey. There is an inverted white outlined triangle in the centre of the forehead. This should be painted. A weathered decal may be acceptable if achieving the look of having been painted. Both visor pieces are black, and obscure the wearer's face. The lower visor tapers in slightly to its narrowest point at the bottom. Left ear cap is oval, with a raised circular detail at the top, and a slightly tapered antenna with a circular profile. Right ear cap is angled at the top, with a narrower half oval at the base. There is an angled recessed panel line in the bottom right corner of the cap. The cap has a raised circular detail at the top, and two antennae. The rear antenna matches that on the left side, while the front antenna is significantly taller. Twin recessed panel lines (1 & 2) run around the upper visor, angle up over the ear pieces, and join together in horizontal lines across the back of the helmet. A third panel line (3) runs parallel and just above the upper of these two lines (2), joined to this same upper panel line at both ends, and running horizontally across the central portion of the rear of the helmet. The distance between 2 and 3 is approximately half the distance between lines 1 and 2 at the rear of the helmet. Additional panel lines vertically bisect each ear plate, and run around their edges. Rear bottom lip of the helmet has a raised, curved rim, running between the rear edges of each ear plate. Back plate has a raised rectangular panel with details to match references. These are long vertical oblongs on both sides, a circle in the lower centre, and a double striped rectangle within another rectangle in the upper centre. Details are outlined by recessed panel lines. The back plate is light grey, but has white detailing painted on either side of the raised rectangular panel. There are six teeth, three on each side of the lower visor, with the recesses painted black or dark grey.

Hi Scott, welcome from another Del, and thanks for jumping in to the discussion. We have made a short start to the CRL in the pinned thread below: Up until recently we hadn't had a builder actively engaging with the CRL discussion here on the forum, so other CRL developments with builders have taken a little more priority (we can't finish a CRL without the participation of builders, and it makes the whole process run a lot smoother). However, if you're happy to jump in and take part in the process along with our other recently arrived builder to jumpstart this, please do! We generally work from a top down basis, not moving onto the next part of the kit until we have a consensus that the previous part is finalised. Once the text for a part is finalised, it will be added into the pinned CRL post. So in the discussion thread above, you'll see we have some draft text going for the helmet. If you have any feedback on that, please jump in with any changes, removals or additions you can suggest. If you can post up relevant photos of your own build to highlight points, please do.

For the gaps between teeth, I would suggest the same as the panel lines and say "black or dark grey". The antennae and ear caps are tough... Best we can do is place them relative to the other colours. We know upper cheek parts are grey, and lower cheek parts are white. The question is do we say that the antennae match one of those, or are a third colour? My personal instinct would be to suggest the same light grey as the upper cheeks for the ear caps. Then maybe a weathered white for the antennae as you both suggest.

I'd agree with you Marcin. I think we just have to assume that the few scenes where it looked more white were mistakes. How do you feel about the rest of the revised text?

Had a chance to run through all of the above again, and here's some new draft text based on the above: Under Suit and Neck Seal Under Suit has one-piece or two-piece construction with no visible zippers or logos. All materials are low-sheen leather or leather-like material. Neck seal may be integrated into the suit, or worn over it. Spacings of the ribs given below are approximate. Neck seal has 1.5” vertical ribs. Shirt has vertical 1” ribbing across the torso. The horizontal arm ribs taper from approximately 1" wide at the torso to ¾" at the wrist. Sleeves are joined to the torso with a curved 1/4” rib. The pants have a heavier taper in the vertical rib spacing, starting at 1.5" wide at the waist to 3/4" above the ankle. Ribbing appears to meet behind the cod piece. Shoulder Bib Material is low-sheen leather or leather-like material, matching the Under Suit. Spacings of the ribs given below are approximate. Centre front of the bib has three 1.5” vertical ribs, with 1.5” horizontal ribbing on either side. Centre rear of the bib has ten 1.5” vertical ribs, with 1.5” horizontal ribbing on either side. There is a 1/2” rib running along the outside of the garment, and around the inside of the neck.

One thing I'm definitely still struggling on - the colour of the earcaps and antennae. In some references they are very clearly white when compared to the grey ear plate underneath: Yet in others, they look grey when compared to the sections of the helmet that we know to be white: Then when you look at Saxon and a grunt side by side, it seems clear that both of their sets of antennae look grey, or am I just assuming that Gar antennae are the same colour as the grunt's? This looks like inconsistency in the animation rather than some trick of OSL. If so, how do we make the decision? I would say they look grey more often than they look white, but I'm not 100% comfortable ignoring the handful of screens that show otherwise.

Revised: Helmet Imperial Mandalorian Super Commando style helmet, matching visual references from Star Wars Rebel animated series. Helmet should be painted and weathered to match references. Weathering of the red paint should match the light grey paint used elsewhere on the helmet. Helmet dome and face plate to be painted red as per references. Rear plate, raised rear panel detailing, the upper cheek plates, left ear plate and teeth must be painted light grey as per references. Lower cheek plates, raised rear panel, ear caps and antennae must be painted white (or a lighter shade of grey), as per references. Additional detailing on rear plate must be painted white. All recessed panel lines are black or dark grey. There is an inverted white outlined triangle in the centre of the forehead. This should be painted. Both visor pieces are black, and obscure the wearer's face. The lower visor is curved at the top, and tapers in slightly to its narrowest point at the bottom. Left ear cap is oval, with a raised circular detail at the top, and a slightly tapered antenna with a circular profile. Right ear cap is angled at the top, with a narrower half oval at the base. There is an angled recessed panel line in the bottom right corner of the cap. The cap has a raised circular detail at the top, and two antennae. The rear antenna matches that on the left side, while the front antenna is significantly taller. Twin recessed panel lines (1 & 2) run around the upper visor, angle up over the ear pieces, and join in horizontal lines across the back of the helmet. A third panel line (3) runs parallel and just above the upper of these two lines (2), joined to this same upper panel line at both ends, and running horizontally across the central 1/3 of the rear of the helmet. The distance between 2 and 3 is approximately half the distance between lines 1 and 2 at the rear of the helmet. Additional panel lines vertically bisect each ear plate, and run around their edges. Rear bottom lip of the helmet has a raised, curved rim, running between the rear edges of each ear plate. Back plate has a raised rectangular panel with details to match references. These are long vertical oblongs on both sides, a circle in the lower centre, and a double striped rectangle within another rectangle in the upper centre. Details are outlined by recessed panel lines. The back plate is light grey, but has white detailing painted on either side of the raised rectangular panel. There are six teeth, three on each side of the lower visor, with the recesses painted black.

That's great, and if you are able to share any of your work on the helmet so far even better 🙂 I would certainly never have guessed orange from the screen! Was it your friend who confirmed that colour on set? We're currently just finishing off the rewrite of the Phase 1 Electrostaff before we return here, as we already have builders assisting there. However if you or anyone else is building a Phase 2 and would like to assist, that would definitely speed up getting this CRL finished too 👍

For the size of the triangle, we might need to test on a helmet to make sure? Simply cut out some paper triangles of various sizes and see what range looks correct?

Yes, I would agree that it looks painted in the references. There are one or two side on screenshots which show pretty conclusively that there is no change in elevation I think:

Perfect. If we say decals or a decent coat of paint on top then, would you feel that's enough?

This quick and basic sketch probably explains what I mean better! Is the white detail either side of the large raised panel just painted on (right image), or is it raised up slightly (left image)?

To simplify matters, maybe we should go with MMCC description and treat back plate as grey with raised white panels, instead of white with grey recesses. I guess this will be simpler to sculpt too? The biggest remaining question here is the white areas marked by green arrows. Is this simply paint? Or are the white areas raised slightly above the grey (but obviously not as high as the raised white panel in the centre)?

The most important thing is to keep it consistent. So anything that appears with the similar dark lining, we treat as a recessed panel line. Would you be okay with that?

Thanks, I know what you mean. The lines around the the "blue" grey areas is what is confusing me. I'm not sure if it's a drawing style that is supposed to make the interior details look raised, whether it is just supposed to be a painted black line, or whether it is a recessed panel line like you suggest. My instinct is you are correct:

Would you agree the greys markings with the yellow arrows are recessed? And that the grey markings with blue arrows are raised/embossed?

My instinct is definitely without moulded detail. As far as I can tell, the helmet is exactly the same model used by the grunts. Yet Saxon has the outlined painted white, while the grunts have the interior painted red (decals could also work fine). So if you wanted to sculpt that detail on, you would need a different sculpt for each helmet. I say leave it smooth and go with paint/decals.

Starting point for the helmet: Imperial Mandalorian Super Commando Style helmet, matching visual references from Star Wars Rebel animated series. Helmet should be painted and weathered to match references. Weathering of the red paint should match the light grey paint used elsewhere on the helmet. Helmet dome and face plate to be painted red as per references. Rear plate embossed and recessed detail, upper cheek plates, left ear plate and teeth must be painted light grey as per references. Lower cheek plates, lower rear plate, ear caps and antennae must be painted white (or a lighter shade of grey), as per references. All recessed panel lines are black or dark grey. There is an inverted white outlined triangle in the centre of the forehead. This may be a decal, or painted. Both visor pieces are black, and obscure the wearer's face. The lower visor is curved at the top, and tapers in slightly to its narrowest point at the bottom. Left ear cap is oval, with a raised circular detail at the top, and a slightly tapered antenna with a circular profile. Right ear cap is angled at the top, with a narrower half oval at the base. It has a raised circular detail at the top, and two antennae. The rear antenna matches that on the left side, while the front antenna is significantly taller. Twin recessed panel lines (1 & 2) run around the upper visor, angle up over the ear pieces, and join in horizontal lines across the back of the helmet. A third panel line (3) runs parallel and just above the upper of these two lines (2), joined to this same upper panel line at both ends, and running horizontally across the central 1/3 of the rear of the helmet. The distance between 2 and 3 is approximately half the distance between lines 1 and 2 at the rear of the helmet. Additional panel lines vertically bisect each ear cap. Rear bottom lip of the helmet has a raised, curved rim, running between the rear edges of each ear plate. Back plate has a raised rectangular panel with embossed details to match references. These are long vertical oblongs on both sides, a circle in the lower centre, and a double striped rectangle within another rectangle in the upper centre. The back plate has grey recesses around all four edges of the raised panel, with additional angled recesses to either side. There are six teeth, three on each side of the lower visor, with the recesses painted black.

Great to see folks. If we can get more Arena shots, we can compare them side by side. If in reality the Arena and Rebels costumes are virtually identical, it might not make sense to create separate CRLs for them. Either way, we'll definitely focus on getting the Saxon and Super Commando CRLs put together ASAP. EDIT: scrap that, I can already see some slight differences in the Arena Saxon Vs the Rebels one, so we'll need a CRL for each. The vast majority of the costume is the same though, so the work can still benefit both at the same time.

We can look at all the references side by side. If there's no real difference other than colour schemes, it will certainly speed up getting all three CRLs done at once. Isn't there also a regular Super Commando in Arena too?

Sorry, I meant whoever gets a chance to do it first 🙂 We like to keep our new CRL development 100% open with input from all. Especially the folks actually doing the building! You can fire away with whatever you want in your WIP thread, even if you go beyond what we have in the CRL thread. It will just be the final CRL text that we need a wider agreement on before it eventually goes live.

Interesting, it looks like Hot Toys added in that silver greeble on the nose that was missing in their early promotional images?

100% agreed. Too many CRLs get overly specific about things that will never be seen. If you add that into your original text, I think we have what we need for the under suit 👌

Brilliant work, that should give us everything we need. We'll start by picking out a good shot of the helmet from all angles, and then make sure that the helmet text perfectly matches what we can see.